Eurotrash
No,not some crap Channel 4 programme presented by a couple of French geezers-though if I’d known Carla Bruni would be on it,I might have watched it-,no this is about something even trashier.
Our recent results in Europe.
I said the other day that I wasn’t too concerned about Europe,more with getting our domestic campaign back on track. And I meant it,but not because I think European football is of no importance to Celtic. Most people outside of The British Isles are only aware of Celtic because of our proud tradition in Europe.
Of course,that was when we would punch above our weight,when we were scared of no-one,and when the term financial doping had never been heard of. Now,we really stand little chance against the big boys in Europe,who are on the financial equivalent of steroids. Whose top earners can earn more in a day than ours can in a month.
Thats just tough,of course. An accident of geography,we are from a small country with a huge and overpowering neighbour,one which sucks up an unfair quota of the TV and commercial money on offer. One where World Cup winners ply their trade,and the best in the world come to hawk themselves for a later move to Spain.
No,that’s not the reason I’m not bothered about Europe at the moment-in fact,I’m not even sure that I think we are doing the right thing by entering it this season. We keep getting a right doing off of the big teams,and a right showing up off of the smaller teams.
That’s right,the big teams,the ones with resources that we can’t even dream of matching,they give us a right doing. The smaller teams,with less resources than us,they keep showing us up.
i mean,WTF? It is demoralising for the players,it’s giving the fans a right scunner,it’s destroying our reputation and standing in the game,and it’s trashing our coefficient in Europe.
Why bother? The board decided it wasn’t worth investing money in the team to improve it,to improve our chance of progressing in Europe,and when surprise surprise we failed to access the riches of The Champions League,they sold our prize asset for a knockdown price to cover the shortfall.
Tonight,we face a top top team from a top top League,RB Leipzig from Bundesliga. RB,of course,stands for Red Bull,though they deny it officially. They are backed by the riches of that company,though they deny it officially. A company which,unbelievably,backs TWO teams in our group,but UEFA apparently are indisposed to the very concept that there might be a possible conflict of interest there.
Salzburg gave us a going over a few weeks back,I’d be very surprised if it were different tonight. Because it isn’t a level playing field means it isn’t really sport. If it isn’t really sport,where oligarchs,sheikhs,fly by night con men,et al,are involved in a pissing competition,I want no part in it.
They can all piss off,instead of pissing over the dreams and aspirations of the ordinary football fan.
*
Above is a guest article by majoc. If you would like to contribute an article,cos hell knows what he’ll find to rant about next,please send it to Mahe at
sentinelcelts@gmail.com
If only our highly emotionally attached to Celtic major shareholder who was so impressed with the Seville shenanigans that he did not hesitate to put us into a holding role since 2004 due to the EPL invite not happening we could be contesting latter stage UEFA cups every year. It´s all about the Old Firm and always will be. That´s what Scotland wants especially the poor downtrodden Irish diaspora
majoc. don’t wont us playing in Europe for obvious reasons, im afraid the spl is our level at the minute, was it the kinks who sang that song, we gotta get out of this place if its the last thing we ever do.hh,
majoc
Have to disagree.
I personally don’t give a about the domestic stuff, aye it’s good to win, europe is where it’s at imo, there will be a restructre in the coming years and being part of it is paramount, else we should just shut up shop now.
As for being corrupt, of course it is, anywhere serious money is involved will be the same, they are just better at it than the sfa and the suits in scotland, we have to deal with it on a daily basis, pick them toys back up ffs 🙂
It doesn’t seem that long ago when Lennon was seemingly shoved out the door and another cock-up appeared in the shape of a manager who was brought into the club as a number two (seems appropriate) and was instantly promoted to manager. Instead of kicking on and with no Scottish competition the team fell back into confusion and the stands emptied by the end of his term, you would have thought that after that debacle lessons would be learned.
Cue the appearance of a manager of known pedigree rumoured to be on a huge salary, crowds greeted him and players of a mostly better quality appeared, the feel good factor kicked in along with great expectations. Instant success from the “Invincibles” Celtic were back to where we thought that we belonged and that was accompanied by C.L. qualification and some remarkable results against one or two big teams of quality. The future looked bright, or so we thought, just add 3/4 good quality first team players and we might just have the team we hoped we would have.
Just two years later, we have regressed, not progressed, instead of C.L. progress, we look frightened on the European stage, big defeats have happened and we look timid and uncertain. The C.L. qualifiers look a distant memory and progress in the Europa’s are far from certain, in fact they too look like a distant memory. All the confidence in the future has dimmed as even domestically other teams have progressed and we are not even guaranteed domestic success.
How has this happened? well it seems like various factors but these are self inflicted (Minder) factors and we all have our own ideas as to who was responsible. Very disappointing, playing in a bent league with European and World bodies all seemingly caught up in various shady deals. So, wherefore art thou, who knows, it is uncertain that the manager will stay and vultures gathering for our better players an endless ride on the not so magical roundabout, jings and help ma boab am away for a wee lye down… The beautiful game now looks haggard and unattractive, it all could change again, but will it…
THEEXILEDTIM
Yes,mate. Correct. And I actually point out similar. But the main thrust of the article isn’t that Europe is an irrelevance to us,it’s that we are currently embarrassing ourselves on that stage. THAT is why I currently have no interest in it.
TET,
I agree. Europe is (pretty much) everything for the club: revenue, profile and the ability to attract players (and sell players for higher fees) all stem from participation at the highest level in Europe.
European participation also maintains the significant advantage we have over rivals which (all things being equal) should translate into greater purchasing power and better players (of course, our directors have done their utmost to ensure this isn’t the case).
I see some short-sighted opinions (on CQN especially) which talk of exclusive focus on domestic affairs. However, domestic success cannot be maintained without involvement in Europe and our aim should be to establish ourselves as a lower tier European club akin to Ajax and the like.
Margaret McGill,
From the last Blog.
Good point about the processes.
Unfortunately it seems that there is no-one apart from the Res 12 who are in a position to in any way reliably tell us what is going on.
Don’t know any of the lads but they seem to be the closest to what’s going on and are not tarnished by making money from the ‘shenanigans.’
It’s pretty simple, the PLC are back them or tell us why not.
Have a good day everyone.
HH
THEGOMBEENMAN
As it stands,Res 12 is not up for discussion at the AGM,and unless someone asks them about it during the end-of-session Q&A,they will probably not mention it at all.
According to Transfermarket
Leipzig had income of 72m in Transfers out and spent 43m.
A surplus of 29m.
Worth bearing in mind I suppose.
https://www.transfermarkt.com/rasenballsport-leipzig/transfers/verein/23826
Majoc
Your frustration around Europe is understandable. It is hurting us.
My view is that we must persevere with finding a solution to compete there. A practical model that is not completely reliant on spending huge amounts of money.
When AEK Athens horsed us out of the competition, they looked like a fit, physically inspiring, skilful team with a clear idea about their roles and tactics. Their manager had them prepared. There were no major superstars but they all looked handy or ‘lively’ as they might say in Swindon.
What did it cost to put that operation together… if no-one knows, I’ll get back. However, I’m willing to bet it’s not £100 million.
It occurred to the bhoys I watched the game with that we should just go and get their manager or CEO and tell them to set up Celtic the same way….we were brassed off at the time, of course, and emotions were high and it was all just chat… but the idea lingers. Can it be done?
If we cannot get out if our present predicament, then adopting a model that is effective in Europe and not predicated on huge wage costs and prima-donna egos, Could work for us. What do we have to lose? Despite winning all the local baubles, there remains for me a sense that we are kidding ourselves on. Every time we step out on a foreign pitch that sense becomes a reality.
The present model is underwhelming. At best. We are stuck in a rut.
As for winning Scottish trophies, that new model would wipe the foor with the lot of them.
TET
Bravo!
Rolling Stone.
100% what I wanted to say… you did it much better.
HH
majoc-SeS-RS
Thanks for the replies.
When I said I didn’t give an eff about the domestic stuff, and I don’t if the truth be told, if we do reasonably in europe the domestic baubles are a given, even with bent referees and corrupt officials in scotland nobody can hold a candle to us when we are competing at at higher level, how we have managed to win what we have in scotland given everything that is against us is simply astonishing.
We obviously can’t compete with the money leagues, but we can with the likes of leagues where we are getting pumped by their teams, this is not acceptable and it needs to change, to get this we have to change the boards outlook, virtually impossible when the mindset of the support is getting conditioned on a daily basis to forget about europe.
Who knows, with a bit of luck there will be another Celts for Change in the offing, when the huns win their first league, I honestly don’t think it’s that far away, will see a massive change in the support imo, till then…
HH
Find that hard to understand that there isn’t anyone in a position to ask a question…Have you heard from Auldheid or BRTH…need to run, will check in later
TET
Sadly it’s going to take something like that to rouse the majority.
It could be years… or sooner.
SeS
In your heart of hearts, do you honestly see us getting the ten ?
Operation stop the ten has only just started imo, the fact we are doing nothing to help stop the slide, if anything we are facilitating it, I just can’t see it I’m afraid.
We all know where the board are coming from and the OF takes precedence over everything.
If no questions are asked …it tells me all I need to know about how this has been stage-managed from the off.
The Resolutioners given the runaround and to be honest it seemed like that as soon as we heard about ‘long grass’ and ‘ wheels turn slowly’ blah, blah
Only respect for the lads running with Res12 – they also discovered stuff?
However, felt they couldn’t share it all with the majority of fans at the time. Presented to Celtic and guess whit?
If as anticipated we see nothing productive from AGM, will Res12 Bhoys come out now and tell the full story??
Or will some Green Knight money-bags ‘fan’ step up and fund a private complaint/litigation etc. Keep your powder dry lads.
Thereby delaying progress (sic). Can we be sure that ‘fan’ is not working with the Board to kick the can farther along the road until we have all trembled to dust?
And that is the reason I think they will win a league and our support will hopefully decide enough
Laters, things to do and no time to do them
TET
Agree, I cannot see 10 happening.
‘ten’ is not important to me as I prefer to see progress In Europe.
The race to 10 sounds like a bit of ‘jingo’ and we know where that has led to in the past.
Rephrase- I would take 10 but not at the expense of building a model that will help us to do justice to our European campaigns.
I sense focus on 10 and trebles is forcing us into a race v sevco that doesn’t end well.
IE they start spending and we feel need to respond etc.,
As you say European success almost guarantees domestic success
Keep eye on the ball
Mike
Agree buddy,
The opportunity to build a strong foundation with no Sevco in league was missed.
The feeling that we were treading water waiting for thems to cacth up is overwhelming.
A lack of leadership
The thing is this though, if you just qualify for the C.L. the club earns over £40.00 mill and that keeps going up, whereas if you win the SPFL the club earns a paltry £3.00. If the board do not recognise that then they are daft. Bankier said in 2016 after Delia exited that we as a club MUST be in the C.L. every year. Now that requires investment, it is patently obvious that we must be in the C.L. qualifiers every year and you cannot do that without bringing in good quality players. Every club in the SPFL this morning received over £350.000 GBP because of our last years qualification, when you realise that some clubs in Scotland receive approx. £112.000 GBP its not just Celtic that need the money to progress, all the Scottish teams need that extra cash. They all will miss that extra money next year because we failed to qualify, only 1/2 teams have said a thank you to Celtic Motherwell and another, the rest have grabbed it and said… nothing.
SES, it is as plain on the nose on our face that to qualify for the C.L. that to do that we need to bring in quality players, failure to do that is a flawed business plan. That failure if its not rectified in January should result in a sacking. No ifs, no buts….
Mike
We could invest every year for the next 5 years and because of the qualification set-up, still not qualify, yes, maybe our chances would be enhanced because of the investment, but it’s nowhere near a guarantee. This is the reality, it’s not the lack of investment which is the main deterrent it’s the 4 qualifying rounds early in our season that is the greatest barrier, with or without any monies being spent por cierto.
That is true Por Cierto,
I thought that I read last week that UEFA were looking at reducing from four to three the entrants from the so called big leagues, if that is the case it would give us a better oppertunity to qualify, but you are correct that nothing is guaranteed. Look at Ajax, that club seems to have a new batch of better players coming through, they went through a few years where they too failed to qualify. For me its a no brainer, if we consider ourselves to be a C.L. team then we must invest in better players, easy to say but hard to do. I just feel that for our size we dont seem cabable of enjoying strengthening from being in a good place, I dont even know who scouts and purchases the players, that the scouts identify, every poster has a different insight into who does because we seem to waste a lot of money on players who are either not the right fit or are often injured, I just wish that we could do better…
I distinctly remember BR saying when he arrived Mike that he wanted a lean squad to work with, quality, not quantity was his mantra. Problem is no one wants the players we are trying to get rid of. We have far too much money laying out on wages for the quantity and nowhere near enough money being paid for quality. BR is in charge of all football matters at the club, but he must be under severe scrutiny at the way our squad has increased. But if it’s in the budget then he just has to bide his time and cut the cloth accordingly por cierto.
Interesting reading and the subsequent comments portray that there is no universally accepted way out of this fix.
When I hear lets just focus on the league I cringe although I do understand the sentiment behind that thought. However the fact is we have approx 3 times the budget of our nearest competitor , there really should be no need at all to focus, winning the league when you have that head start should be a given. If you do find yourself in a scrap then you are underperforming and / or your rival is overperforming .
If domestic dominance is what the majority of Glasgow Celtic fans want then that should be easy peasy to deliver ,,, anyone should be able to bring home the title . Wishing to be top dogs in Scotland is no longer a wish , with over 100m turnover it should be a given and titles should be collected at will.
If we fail to win a league with 3 times the turnover advantage , it should be considered an eff up of almighty proportions and that failure should kick start mega change , but we all know thats not what will happen. We will be told 8 out of 9 is a good record , not how did we lose it if we are soo far ahead of the park ?
To be clear I dont go for lets just win the league one bit. It doesnt excite me at all , the football is for the most part rotten , the refs are bent , the cops hate us , the away fans hate us , our fans get attacked physically , I could go on . If its win the league only I will continue my boycott.
And that brings us to Europe . The AEK game was a real eye opener for me as I had a real good look at them and their team prior to our meetings and we really REALLY should have beaten them or at least gave them a real tough game because on paper we are bigger , have better paid and more expensive players than them, and have more Euro experience in the squad .
Yet we were soundly beaten. Simple fact is we underperformed. Again.
I posit the entire system needs looked at for us. If youre most important games are in June then adjust everything to deliver then . Breaks for players need adjusted so they arent getting caught out cold in the qualifiers . Our first teamers should be given staggered breaks from Christmas onwards . The summer transfer window is not helpful to us in regards of qualifying so January should have more importance placed on it . We should not be signing players in the summer with the aim of immediate impact in the qualifiers,,, if they do then great but that should not be expected .
This system of waiting until we have qualified or not to see who is interested ,, I would like to see that stop as they shoulda been onboard already if they wanna play for us and keeping us dangling on a string is not for me one bit. Tell everyone we dont do that anymore , we approach , and say yes or no sorry cant wait as we have big games early and we will not be hanging around for an answer .
I want grown up , out of the box thinking from those running that club and I have had it with the stale repetitive old men that currently have charge . PL has been there far far too long without real positive impact on the game either , infact the game has deteriorated during his tenure . Why hang around soo long anyway , golden goose ? I really fail to see the advantage of having an absentee major shareholder also. And hes not a Celtic man , he was more into United , and his son convinced him to buy the shares . Little has taken place or been said since then to make me think that has changed .
I know our esteemed colleague AweNaw ( I swear it took me years to work it out ) thinks whats the point in going after Peter if Dermot can just stick another fella in ?
Well would pushing Peter out the door not send the message that your men arent wanted here and possibly be the catalyst for change ?
Would the old man even want to go through replacing him or just wash his hands of the whole shebang , at a hefty profit I might add ?
Definitely maybe . Hand the shares to the son as threatened ? Better than nothing right ?
I say we rock the boat and try to shove him overboard . Might even be fun , and besides theres no harm done in what we would be doing . No as if he needs the job or anything . Nah , we would be doing the right thing and I wouldnt suggest it otherwise.
The way I see it this Agm will tell us all we need to know .
I suspect , as has been said , that it will be stagemanaged and have a general “ look we broke the hundred million in a football backwater “ and “ the game is changing and we must swim against the tide etc “ feel about it .
Someone will ask about the summer transfer window and I expect a response something along the lines of “ Moussa caught us on the hop and with him we would be flying . Will try to replace in January , not our fault sorry “
If the masses walk away from this AGM hypnotised again then we simply must act , it is our duty to try no ?
Again you are right, Brendan did say that and its so true, that the players being purchased are not of the good enough quality type, that is why its so frustrating. But I’m not certain that he was aware of the number of games that we play in. Taking the league, cups, European and for most of our players International games into consideration. We are missing a few tonight, so a heavier burden is placed on the likes of K.T. If the player pool includes Scottish players, if they sign a mid term contract, the wages they are on means that no other Scottish team can afford them. I am at a loss as to who has signed them, even Compper who played for a Red Bull is given the opportunity to leave but turns that opportunity down, strange…I think I will stick to talking mince and leave the rest up to the club..
Por Cierto, a couple of comments on your posts:
Firstly, to say that investment will not guarantee qualification is correct. However, to quote the old maxim, the only guarantees in life are death and taxes. To adopt an apathetic approach on account of the more onerous CL qualification process would be wrong and would send the club backwards.
Spending money (invariably) gets you a better quality of player and therefore improves the team. This is taken as a given in football (although there are of course exceptions). If you do not believe that spending money gets you better players and, as a result, a competitive advantage then you must be an acolyte of the LNS interpretation of sporting advantage.
Secondly, you are again correct about BR’s comments on a smaller squad but one filled with quality. However, in order to achieve this he has to be given the means. Now, he is not signing Hendry, Hayes, Mulumbu or Gamboa in a vacuum. He is signing then within the constraints of his budget; a budget I would argue is too small and is causing detriment to the club. BR’s net spend was £100k last year (prior to the Demeble sale). This in a year of record profit and revenue.
Por Cierto
I disagree that it’s the 4 rounds that hinder us, the first couple of rounds should be a breeze for us, we were the better team against AEK but internal strife in the main and not taking our chances done for us, had we beaten them the final play off round was a matter of turning up imo,
We went into the qualifiers with a seriously weakened squad, the defence was a shambles, the blame will lie in quite a few places, but no matter, it was a joke for a club that sees itself as a well run club to go into those four games like we did.
Pedro himself said a few years ago that because of the three and now four games we have to play we need to invest in the winter window to bed players in for the early games, we have brought in squad players and not first team players, not good enough.
It’s not as if we will have to go into the red to invest in the team, I am at a total loss as to why people keep saying there is no guarantees, there never is, so with respect, to use thus as an excuse is pandering to the mindset that euro football is outwith our remit.
When will the suits twig that without a successful team on the park the lavish bonuses will dry up, some things can be done on the cheap, putting a winning team together isn’t one of them.
HH
………………………..
SeS
Of course I would love us to win the ten, another first for the club, but europe is where we have to be, as I said earlier, changes are coming in the not to distant, a three/four tier euro league set up, the speed that we are regressing we won’t make it to the last tier, we need to be in the top eighty to make the last league if there is a four league set up, we are spiraling down so fast just now it’s quite scary.
Mike,
Ten years ago many EPL teams were loss making enterprises, now none are. The economic landscape can change very quickly in football. Remember the MON era? We purchased players like Sutton, Hartson, Lennon, now we could not afford the fees for equivalent players from that league, nor their salaries.
MON was correct when he advised that we should prepare for the slow lane.
As has been said by others, the benchmark should not be the top teams in Europe but teams like Salzburg, AEK, Red Star etc. Failure against these teams indicates that all is not well. Continual failure will mean that the gap between us and whatever exists from the “rangers” brand will narrow. In European terms it will make it difficult to attract quality players. All of this is assuming that there is no radical shift in the industry…….e.g. a new European league, or Celtic moving to another league.
Rebus
Rolling Stone
We do have a sporting advantage over every club in Scotland and will win our eighth title this year. But Kilmarnock and Hearts have both beaten us this year and St. Mirren managed a worthy draw. I didn’t say we shouldn’t spend the money I only said it wouldn’t guarantee anything por cierto.
PS. His Transfer budget was £30M. por cierto
His net spend was next to £0. You can’t dismiss net spend.
does anybody understand the thinking behind me not wanting celtic to play in Europe at the moment. gotta go out catch your answer later.hh.
I understand it but totally disagree with it.
RS
Am not disagreeing with you, I want what everyone else wants por cierto
I’ve always said that UEFA, especially in the CL, does not want teams beaten by exorbitant score lines, it totally undervalues their most prestigious tournament, hence why they are trying to have different levels of European competitions, so that teams like us, at this moment, can compete at our own level por cierto.
?
Packy
I can’t agree. Think we learn more form defeats in Europe than we do winning in Scotland.
Unless I completely missed your point… which is entirely likely ?
Mahe
Good stuff.
If the masses walk away from this AGM hypnotised again { which they will for sure } then we simply must act , it is our duty to try no ?
How do we go about it then ?
For years I have tried to think how we can do it, a couple of years back I mailed nigh on 100 supporters clubs, I was wanting to gauge them on how we could do something about the bent referees, I got a handful of replies back and even then they were so uninterested it was quite pathetic.
Whatever we do it will be akin to pissing in the wind unless something happens with the mindset of the support that changes things dramaticly.
HH
TET
It is going have be something huge.
There is no appetite for change. Unfortunately.
Bhoys
Thoughts on tonight
Can see Odsonne scoring but fearful about our mid and ability to hold the ball .
Defence exposed again.
Living in hope for a draw and dreaming of an away win
HH
As AweNaw said earlier, Europe is no longer part of the strategy. DD is a low risk investor, so he is prepared to max out profits domestically and develop his real estate portfolio, whilst accruing minimal debt. Should access to the EPhell ever happen then the value of the club would increase 5-10 fold. DD’s only guaranteed value add is the hotel, which is why he’s more interested in developing it than in procuring right backs, centre mids and goalscorers. He only seems to be interested in players he meets at pro-celebrity golf events, so not sure who is on his radar.
Any of MONs teams would have cruised past Leipzig, but we have dropped our standards significantly.
SES,,
I will be watching delayed when the missus comes home so will be avoiding blog from kick off .
This team doesnt have the heart for an away win . 3 zip a well I predict. Anything but a couple goal defeat would surprise me . Is Lustig not done ? Hail Hail
Tet,,,whether to have this out in public might be a better question . If its another pat on the back for the board affair we will all need to brainstorm I guess . Take it easy partner . Hail Hail
I can’t see anything other than a resounding home win, this is the last thing I want but just can’t see anything else.
Heavy defeat I think. BR has seemingly not learned the lesson (from our recent European outings) that we need to be solid, organised and difficult to beat, add into the mix the fact that Morgan, Gamboa, Kouassi, Christie and even Jozo are all coming in cold and it doesn’t bode well.
I can only assume that both Lustig and Benkovic are carrying injuries and are not being risked for the weekend.
Last night’s Psg vs Napoli was an absolute belter and we’ll worth catching on replay for those who didn’t see it. Later bhoys, all the best. Hail Hail
Just looked at the handicap for the game tonight, RB are only 2/1 for -2, shocking how we have regressed so far, as Dubaibhoy said, MoN’s teams would have sailed past this mob tonight, they are 1/3 for the win, we are 9/1 ffs, the draw is 19/4.