You can fool some of the people,,,

It might seem like I am rambling on , in fact I might be rambling on , but bear with me please , theres a point here.

So the mate Roland from Ballyfermot living over here was telling me a good yarn about dealing with the Yanks and we were in stitches at what happened to him .

He takes a Honda Suv , brand new , out on lease . Doesnt own it , and makes a monthly payment for 3 years . After that 3 years , he has a choice of pay a lump sum to buy outright  or back to the drawing board .

So hes had this car 2.5 years , delighted with it but  the tires need replaced . Him and the missus go out to talk about the situation and she tells him  with a child better safe than sorry , lets get new tires on it .

But if we are handing it back we shouldnt get new tires he tells her . So they look over the car , stains and dog hairs , baby seat , crap everywhere ,,,,look at the mileage which is over average and come to a decision to just make the final lump sum and keep the car , they like it , all they need is already set up , it will have new tires etc.

So after 3 years is up and its  decision time he goes down to the dealership  with the chequebook in hand to pay up and keep her .

He tells me the salesman was aghast ,,, no no Sir , let me show you the bells and whistles on the new one , dont keep the old one  . Had him test driving and all but he was insisting on taking the old one home .

Every sales person on duty tried a different trick on him , and they genuinely couldnt understand why a man would drive a 3 year old car when for the same payment they could drive a new one with the gadgets .

After hours of this he is starting to crack and lose it saying he will complain to head office , got things to do etc .

At this stage they all leave the room for a while  and low and behold , big Chief daddy general manager himself waltzes out of his office with his cronies in tow ,,, towering over him reaching down with the million dollar smile doing the old sales trick of memorizing your name to make it personal .

The gang stand back and watch him work . He steps back walks around the car , quick glance inside , then leans down and sees the newish tires , stands back up , strolls over to Roland .

 

“ Youre a family man I see , young car seat there and toys etc ? “

“ Yes indeed Sir , young son .”

“ And you put new tires on her also ? “

“ Yes Sir about 6 months ago and they were needed . “

The big man nods his head , and reaches into his jacket .  He produces a chequebook and a very nice pen . He scribbles and tears it off , turns to me mate .

“ Roland , I can see you took care of her and theres decent tires on her, so thanks for that , heres a thousand bucks ! “   while flashing the smile , then announces

“ And what was your payment per month last time ? “

“ 222 bucks a month “

“ I’ll even lower it 10 bucks to 212 !  Think about it Roland , youre going home with a thousand bucks you never expected plus a lower car payment , and boy these new Suvs have all the  child friendly features anyone could ever want ! Look at it this way Roland , daddys going home a hero , saved money on the monthly bills and got a nice wedge to treat the lady . Out to dinner tonight maybe . Take her  to Vegas for the weekend , she will love it ! “

And turns to him with that million dollar smile leaning down with the hand out to shake .

My mate said he had no other choice but to shake , and when he did , the cheque eased  into his other hand , and everyone there bust out laughing and smiling . He honestly didnt know if they were laughing at him or along with him , I have my suspicions though.

The big chief looked over his boys with a twinkle in the eye , he still had  it ,, he had cracked a tough egg and showed them all up , then sweeps out of the room in style , mission accomplished .

 

Theres a few lessons to be learned there and depending on the type of person you are a certain one will jump out first ,

Number one , he got charmed . He fell for the old fashion charmer . And a married man too,,, 🙂

Youve probably met someone that had the gift of the gab and found yourself being asked to agree to something or agree with someone that you had no intentions of going anywhere near earlier .  Its an old trick , but effective . Takes a certain type of person to say eff off pal in those circumstances and many will see their resistance crumble under big pressure , especially with a crowd watching and the spotlight on you .

 

Number two, if he hadnt have been there in person to be charmed he would have got what he wanted in the first place . If he had have phoned from the comfort of his house , he would have been out of reach of the charm .  Get the proper department number , call and explain exactly what you want , and they do their job by fullfilling your wishes . Its anonymous , mostly computerised , and streamlined.

 

Number three, the suits  do things differently . In no way was he ready for what they hit him with  and ultimately their tactics worked a treat . Thats accepted protocol within this society , the upsale pressure and the dogged by the numbers sales techniques , work em hard catch em fast . Seen coworkers sit in showrooms all day long , 8 hours plus , haggling or trying to get that certain car for that certain payment ( they never actually buy anything here its all on credit ) . Just normal business practice here  . Back home most would complain about wasting their time talking about new cars when its not what they came for and we told you that , and many staff would be rebuked for such tactics and would maybe lose that garage customers actually . Too many complaints and head office gets involved .

 

So whats my point here ?

Translate that over into the Agm . A fella goes with an intention , say to get an answer , thats like me mate going out with the chequebook to buy the car , knows his intention.

He gets where hes going the Agm / showroom and states his intention .

The suits are a different breed to him and their charm / runaround wear him down to the point he trundles off without what he actually wanted  ,,,

And the needle returns to the start of the song and we all sing along like before . If allowed it will forever actually .

The fella with a question  or me mate ,,what can he do but shrug his shoulders after getting bamboozled . Its done, over , gone .

 

So after another ( just like the above )  stage managed / choreographed well rehearsed piece of facetime  aka the Agm , a few hours of deflection mixed with meandering eloquence awash with buzzwords, its as you were for another year. What a gig .

We all know its lip service now ,,, especially after  “the Res12er’s are happy , oh no were not” . Theres evidence right there the suits will clearly play with words when it “ suits “ them .

As someone who also plays with words the odd time I know thats not a crime . Thats me though , not an employee.

In accepting a major position within the Club certain responsibilities and expectations came along with that acceptance .

One of those responsibilities is the fans and part of that is  keeping them informed . Especially the fans who are working on everyones behalf .

And yet we have our most senior employee and due to be highest paid ever employee in 2021 telling porkies , and needing to get pulled up for it right there in public .

At the Agm ,  the biggest sit down of the year where things are actually supposed to get decided.

 

So , unlike that fella and me mate Roland , its clear that if you do intend to make headway with the suits you need to be immune to the charm and wise to the tricks of the trade . To stand your ground and speak up when needed .

Like I was saying above it takes a special type of person not to succumb  ,,,you need an Auldheid on them shoulders , to stay the course and stay true to your aims . Ignoring the minions , then the big Chiefs smiles and tokens while demanding what you set out for .

Thankfully we found not one but  four . You’ve got our backing bhoys . And our Respect !

 

Big shout out to www.etims.net for the mench last week. Keep on keeping on and Hail Hail

 

By writing something for the site , you can show your other half all the comments / praise and thus justify your time spent here a hell of a lot easier trust me . Might even get brownie points ( means kudos ).  sentinelcelts@gmail.com

 

Ps, Anyone going car shopping dont go without a Res12’er by yer side or God knows what you’ll drive home in  !

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MAHE

You can fool some of the people all of the time.

And that’s enough!

mahe

Majoc, you’re very right unfortunately. I was certainly calling my mate a fool though . He couldn’t believe he, d been suckered. Believe the missus has decided to take over the car buying in future, , ,
Hail Hail

Awe Naw

“mahe
AweNaw,,,
Re CQN .
Perhaps it reads that way to you which is my fault . Todays article was not an attack on Cqn I assure you .”

I never thought it was. It was more to do with posts on the previous thread.

AWENAW

I think some CQN posters have more than led the way when it comes to attacking another site,old bean. Saturday night was like the night of the long knives over there.

Got a mail from your younger bro last night,good to know he is still alive!

Awe Naw

Majoc,

For me it´s all to do with actual content and my short attention span. Sentinelcelts has blown all of my expectations out often water. The content and the writing is superb , lead articles and contributions.

I just dont want to read a lot of bitching that will easily escalate ZZzzzz…………….

Sounds like it´s already happened. 🙁

I only read the main article and the last page on CQN and now only very rarely. Again that´s due to content and not me being huffy or anything.

Great weekend for the football. Eintracht in oxygen deprivation territory

MAHE and I decided from the start that we wouldn’t bitch about content on other sites,but since we also decided that all posts would be permitted,bar libel or serious language violations,then the field is open for posters to make their opinions clear.

The other night,that included CQN,which was an unfortunate by-product of an open forum site. But posters didn’t labour the point,and I wouldn’t think the subject will be too common. Plenty of other stuff to mither on about!

Eintracht doing well? Frankfurt for that(!)

Awe Naw

out of the water

proofreadingismeCSC

Awe Naw

As I have said of a long time now, all the other Celtic blogs well the main ones are only offering us our daily bread. There´s gold to be made with those silly Fenian upstarts hoping for parity….. said the Celtic Board. Amen said the rigid belief advocates … where´s the plate

CQN dropped absolutely everything after the 5WA

Phil has not really pursued the Ibrox saftey that he supposedly uncovered with no prompting from anyone
Fields of green dropped the advantageous TV deal for Sevco narrative and also the proposed Old Firm game in Dubai (none of this seemingly ever happpend)

Leaving us all wondering why

And the false hope of potential parity still isn´t being stopped.

Johnjames is now expecting Dave King to be meted out justice some time soon in a Scottish court..

“Lady Wolffe qualified as a solicitor in 1992 and worked at the Bank of Scotland legal department from 1992 to 1993. She called to the bar in 1994 and until 2008 practised as a junior counsel, mainly in commercial and public law. From 1996 until 2008 she was also standing junior counsel to the Department of Trade and Industry and its successor departments. Since 2007 she has been an ad hoc advocate depute. She was appointed QC in 2008. As senior counsel she has practised mainly in commercial and public law. She was a member of the Disciplinary Tribunal of the Faculty of Advocates 2005-2008 and has been a member of the Police Appeals Tribunal since 2013. Mrs Wolffe emigrated to the United Kingdom in 1987. ”

A spectacular rise for the woman who was allegedly head hunted by Gavin Masterson

Mr. Gavin Masterton, CBE, FCIBS served as Managing Director of Bank Of Scotland Plc and also served as its Treasurer since 1996. Mr. Masterton served as Chief General Manager of Bank Of Scotland plc since 1996. He served as General Manager of Bank Of Scotland plc since 1986 and its Deputy Treasurer since 1992. He joined Bank Of Scotland plc in 1957. He retired from the Bank of Scotland in 2001 after being with them for over 45 years. He serves as Chairman of Stadia Investment Group. He has been a Director of Dunfermline Athletic Football Club Limited since October 23, 1990. He served as a Director of Bank Of Scotland plc since 1997. He attended Dunfermline High School.

In 2003 Dunfermline, with Calderwood in the dug out and Masterton in the boardroom, lost 6-1 to Rangers at Ibrox on the final day of the season clinching the title for Alex McLeish’s side and a guarantee of £10m from a place in the group phase of the Champions League.

https://petercherbi.wordpress.com/2017/12/06/cry-wolffe-judicial-office-hit-with-new-conflict-of-interest-claims-as-court-of-session-papers-reveal-9-million-damages-claim-against-chief-constable-lord-advocate-james-wolffe-qc-was-set-to-be/

I wonder if Lady Wollfes husband the former Scottish Lord Advocate was called to the English bar in 2013 as a bit of a Bank Of Scotland fall out fire fighter.

One can only speculate

How many government committees did he sit on where the Royal Bank of Scotland were the go to financial advisers ? I can tell you very very many.

Gold

The Rangers brand should be punished by the authorities for its cheating, tax evasion – titles and other honours ‘won’ during the ‘cheating years’ should be stripped, and it should be recognised that the current club is a new entity.

All the above can only happen by the hand(s) of the football authorities in Scotland.

Celtic Football Club/plc cannot bring any of this about. Celtic Football Club/plc had no hand in the design and execution of what has happened at Ibrox. Celtic Football Club/plc cannot on its own lay commensurate punishment on the Ibrox brand.

The leaders at Celtic have the responsibility to make the club as successful as it can be, and to my mind they are doing just that. We are enjoying the second most successful football period in our history and, at the same time, are the most financially successful club in the history of Scottish Football.

Should our officers and board of directors really be pushing to have the Rangers brand obliterated from the Scottish game? On the one hand it will never happen. The brand’s constituency is so big, there will always be a Rangers brand in Scottish football.

Should our officers and board of directors actually want the obliteration of the Rangers brand? I say no, as it would have a detrimental effect on our club.

Attendance at Scottish Football Premiership grounds runs at around 3 million per year. Roughly, Celtic & ‘Rangers’ account for 2.4 million, 80% (1.2 million each including away matches). Without a Rangers brand, 40% of all spectators would be lost at a stroke and the long-term knock on effect in all areas would be enormous and catastrophic for Scottish Football.

Those who run Celtic must be judged on the performance of the club and not by the corruption of others who run Scottish Football.

I know that much of the above will not sit easily with those who quite rightly want an answer on the Res 12 thing, and there must be an answer from the SFA, however I repectfully advocate that as a club based in Scotland, we must deal with the reality of an opponent we don’t like, but without whom the ‘pool’ in which we ‘swim’ would be smaller and poorer, and over time, without recourse to another league, so would Celtic.

Awe Naw

HOME ALONE Rangers cutting Celtic’s allocation to sell more season tickets has done everyone favour… the game is more trouble than it’s worth, says Davie Provan
I’ll bet you Dave King and Peter Lawwell would privately be happy to forfeit their ticket allocation when they’re away from home

COMMENT
By Davie Provan
25th November 2018, 2:30 pm Updated: 25th November 2018, 2:40 pm

WE’RE deep into extra time in the 1980 Old Firm Scottish Cup Final.

Celtic are one up and have a corner at the Rangers end of Hampden.

Bobby Lennox and I are over the ball about to work it short when I feel the draft of an empty wine bottle missing my head by a whisker. It’s been launched from the terracing 20 yards away.

That’s how it was back then when supporters could take booze into grounds. Being hit by a coin was a bonus when it could easily have been a screwtop.

At the end of that final, we had scenes described by commentator Archie Macpherson as “something out of Apocalypse Now”.

A full-scale pitch invasion by Old Firm punters saw mounted police draw batons for the first time since the General Strike of 1926.

Under a hail of bottles, police tried to keep charging Old Firm fans apart at the national stadium.

This was Scottish football’s showpiece occasion.

Television footage of the riot led nationwide news bulletins and was beamed around the planet. Images of cowering kids caught up in the crossfire were sickening.

More recently, images of Hugh Dallas, blood streaming from his head, heaped further shame on this fixture.

In the week Celtic announced they might refuse tickets for next month’s Old Firm clash, the decision should be taken out of both clubs’ hands.

Police Scotland should have banned away fans years ago. Yeah, it would be an advantage for Steven Gerrard’s side to have the whole of Ibrox behind them, but Brendan Rodgers’ boys would have the same edge at Celtic Park in March.

By reducing Celtic’s allocation to sell more season tickets, Dave King has done everyone a favour.

Already, Celtic have retaliated and if this leads to an all-out ban on away fans for Old Firm games, I’ll drink to that.

In the past this fixture has cost lives. Taking the hatred out of it by banning away supporters would be a step forward. The game is more trouble than it’s worth.

Ahead of the Ibrox clash, police will plan a military operation to keep punters apart. Govan will become a no-go area for the general public that Saturday.

As the fall-out from the game reaches the city centre, our doctors and nurses will be overrun.

Some believe banning away fans will ruin the Old Firm spectacle. What spectacle? The sight of two tribes spewing sectarian hatred at each other?

Sorry, but we shouldn’t be celebrating the atmosphere of this game. It embarrasses every one of us.

By the time I hung the boots up I’d more than 30 Old Firm games under my belt. I didn’t enjoy any of them.

Sure, when you’re two up and the game’s into stoppage time you savour the moment. But all the stuff that’s going on around you is depressing. Before telescopic tunnels, players from both sides would be showered in spit getting off the pitch.

In the meantime, it would all be kicking off in the city’s pubs which were to be avoided win, lose or draw. You don’t have to look for trouble after an Old Firm game, it’ll find you.

Look, much has changed since my time. Punters can no longer take drink into grounds. All-seated stadia and CCTV surveillance have made policing easier.

Where the cops used to wade into the mayhem when bottles were flying, grounds are more sanitised now. But if there are fewer arrests, it’s only because police keep a tight lid on it.

When it comes to intensity, the Glasgow derby puts England’s biggest fixtures in the shade. Bring a guest from down south and they’re blown away by the noise. But the atmosphere feeds off hatred, not sport.

There was a time when this game could genuinely claim to be one of the great derbies because of the quality on the pitch.

When the clubs met at Ibrox in 1967, both were preparing for European finals. Now they find themselves making up the numbers in Europe.

The demand for tickets is still there but I’ll bet you King and Peter Lawwell would privately be happy to forfeit their ticket allocation when they’re away from home.

– FOOTBALL club AGMs are like the North Korea military parade. Punters are expected to turn up, shut up and be grateful for the wisdom of their leaders.

That seemed to be the script as the Celtic board enlightened shareholders this week.

Peter Lawwell reminded us he’d broken the club’s transfer record for Odsonne Edouard without mentioning the millions profit made on Stuart Armstrong and Moussa Dembele.

Lawwell didn’t explain why the club had been bounced out the Champions League by a bang-average AEK Athens and refused to accept responsibility for losing John McGinn.

You really couldn’t mark his neck.

GOLD

With utmost respect,I disagree with you on a number of points-although I accept that the board found themselves in a difficult position.

You state that Celtic Football Club had no hand in the design and execution of what has happened at Ibrox. That may well be true,but I believe we facilitated it-or rather,one person acting outside of his remit and displaying a shocking lack of judgement,facilitated it.

See my article on the AGM on Friday.

Those who run Celtic must be judged on the performance of the club and not by the corruption of others who run Scottish football-really? For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Celtic have acted disgracefully throughout this entire episode,IMO,if not by collusion then certainly by facilitation,and their dealings over Res 12 surely make every right-minded individual sick to their stomach.

They can hardly complain about cover-ups at Ibrox or Hampden when they wrote the book themselves

As for your last paragraph,a perfect example of suck it up,we are Rangers,and you don’t matter.

GOLD,25 years ago,those bastards tried their damnedest to put us out of business. Did they think they would have a problem thriving in our absence? Of course not.

We had the chance to push for all the legal avenues to be taken against them,as they would for any other club or company,and we decided not to.

Now,I don’t think there was a single Celtic supporter outside of that boardroom that didn’t want them dead and gone in 2012. But one person inside it made a decision.

We are still suffering from it.

Awe Naw

Would Scottish football attendances increase if the Old Firm was consigned to the scrap heap? I believe that it would. I also now sadly believe that Celtic´s attendances would absolutely plummet without their beloved Old Firm partner. Dermot Desmond also clearly thinks so also based on how he has managed the club since Rangers went into liquidation. There are no grey areas here whatsoever.

If Dermot Desmond considered that he as a business man was even slightly cheated he would privately sue Sir David Murray and Campbell Ogilivie. He would sue Sir David Murray if Sir David Murray (if anybody) even hinted at any possible tax evasion. It´s all very well documented what he has said and how he behaves when slighted.

Rebus67

Mahe,

That is a great story! I laughed so hard that I may have opened an old hernia! However, the real acid test was Mrs Rebus who laughed and laughed!

Not sure I have anything to offer today. It is a time for deep thought and setting up the Xmas laser to flood the house with “Christmas” light. No ladders, no frozen fingers, no need to access the dark corners of my vocabulary.

Have a great day!

Rebus

mahe

Gold ,
Hi pal and its good to see you on , hope alls well.
Thats a well thought out post with some great facts and questions .

“ Should our officers and board of directors really be pushing to have the Rangers brand obliterated from the Scottish game? “
Absolutely not , we should be insisting the governing body enforce the rules , no more no less , and it shoudnt matter which club is in the dock . Should Glasgow Celtic be seen as Rangers killers, I dont think its an exaggeration to say the street wouldnt be safe for many . That would be a terrible scenario and must be avoided .

The general jist of your post seems to be the domestic game needs them , too big to fail .
We as a club and a fanbase shouldnt concern ourselves very much with the goings on over there as what will be will be and we will all react accordingly .
As for the issues the game would face without them , thats not our problem . Yes it will affect us, the least of any club though due to our strong reserves and solid financial footing , but it might put the league on the precipice or kill it altogether . However that could be a blessing in disguise and help much needed reforms come through while smashing the Sfa , and help our case to move .
They do seem to be trying bigtime to stay relevant which makes me wonder if widespread reform is on the way , there certainly is a lot of agitation around the game worldwide.
Further more I think we would see more home grown talent coming through if we were not in a title race , and the fight for 2nd place would be entertaining also .
Hail Hail

mahe

Rebus,,,thanks and glad you both enjoyed . It is time for the decorations to come out of storage indeed,,,we have a couple up already actually . Be careful hey ! Hail Hail

Mike

An interesting tale, but I could never see myself being allowed to be talked into that, certainly not, as one of the best hagglers I like nothing better than screwing sales people into the ground. A Saint turned Sinner, know your enemy, be prepared, know your bottom price and then take 20% off the bottom price and be prepared to walk away if the deal does not meet your requirements,is a good place to start. Many the salesman have shed tears when me and my friend Jimmy Cricket walked into the garage and started bartering, of course it could be that they looked down and saw Jimmy’s wellies on the wrong feet, when he says “and there’s more” it cracks them up and they say FFS. O.K. I’le give you everything that you want. So the moral of the tale is to employ Jimmy to get the best deal.

# Res.12. Going for truth and justice and it shall not stop until justice is served.

Gold

Hi there Majoc- I don’t think that Celtic have “lost their soul”, in fact with the way the club is now run, I believe that they have actually got the soul and purpose of the club back after the shambles of the latter White/Kelly years. We now have custodians who are ensuring that we are in the strongest position we can be, given our geographical location.

It was ineptitude and lack of modern business savvy that led to our club nearly ‘going down the pan’ – the Cambuslang proposal was risible and not worthy of our club.

Yes of course Murray and his acolytes ‘milked’ the weakness of our situation- they thought Rangers were destined for pastures new – however we have had the last laugh when we see what the consequences have been. The Ibrox brand will never again have the opportunity to use Celtic as a doormat.

I do not dismiss Res 12 lightly….but, ask the Celtic support/family what matters more to them this week, wins in Norway and Hampden, or an immediate Res 12 statement from the board – 99.5% will plump for the results on the field. HH.

Gold

Hi Mahe, thanks for the welcome.

It saddens me to say it, however with no Rangers brand and 40% of the fan base of Scottish football gone, there would be far-reaching ramifications. Our league would become less relevant to advertisers/sponsors/TV, and therefore it would be harder to justify, or, negotiate a way out.

That does not mean to say that they (Sevco) can do as they please. Corruption in the SFA/SFL and a weak and insular Celtic created the perfect conditions for what Rangers inflicted on the Scottish game. Never again should those set of events be allowed to converge, and with our current board and officers, I am sure it won’t.

The Ibrox fan base sustains the club – this means that they can’t plan to live within their current means – it would be suicide and as you say they must strive to appear relevant. If they ‘cut their cloth to suit’ and employed only players they could afford, their attendances would fall to 15,000……and so by constantly living beyond their means, they rack-up more debt and weaken their infrastructure. Our leaders know this and work to keep us strong and ahead of them. If we keep beating them in competition, all else will fall into place.

There are no morals, or, scruples, over at Ibrox – it’s win at all costs and under ANY circumstances – the fans buy into to this completely. If we at Celtic had done what they had done, would we have got 40,000 in the 2nd Division? I doubt it very much – many in our support would have been sickened by the cheating and manipulation and would not have readily returned.

I agree with your ‘home-grown’ talent point – however don’t you think we are doing rather well at the moment – Bain, Hendry, Tierney, McGregor, Forrest, Johnston and Morgan in the first-year pool, with a couple of others in the pipeline.

We must keep up the Res 12 pressure, but not be consumed by it.

saltires en sevilla

Gold

Great to see you back buddy.

Agree that there will always be a team playing that the current Sevco fans will cling to and your numbers make sense. They will always be around.

Agree the SFA need to deal with all their cheating and punishment for same. They also have to get active on dealing with new/existing wrongdoing including much of the same type of cash doping.

Where I disagree is about finishing off ‘Rangers’, I’m not sure anyone here has said that, or if there is a general view that is even possible. There may be a string of post I missed.

Res12 is about fixing the SFA by improving governance of the game. It’s a Celtic Shareholders resolution and it’s 100% down the Celtic Board to make every reasonable effort to do what they can to deliver on that. Why? Because the CEO told the Resolutioners that he would fire the Silver Bullet. It is my opinion that he has the ammunition and has, so far, failed to act. It appears he is Saying one thing,whilst doing another.

Auldheid has pointed out at the AGM that he misled the Shareholders at the meeting and had to be corrected. That could be a significant lack of judgement on his part that he may yet rue.

Not difficult to see why some folk don’t trust him, or more accurately, trust his intentions.

Your general views on the second best ever era, since 2000-2018?, is difficult to argue in terms of domestic success. If turnover and cash in the bank is a measure that is valuable, then it’s probably the most successful our club has ever been.

I’m sure some folk will be happy with all of above. Good luck to them.

My measurement of success requires a more consistent showing in Europe than we have seen. Winning everything in Scotland is just not enough.

I cannot abide cheats being allowed to prosper and compliance in rigged game with no consequences for same.

Our Club are not making enough of a stand on the corruption in Scottish game.

Speaking out is a minimum, even if we are voted down, I would see that single vote recorded.

Counted.

Gold

Hi there – I do believe that the Res 12 issue will come to a head.

I can’t see how it could benefit Celtic and/or its officers and board to deliberately ignore or manipulate this issue. If someone has hard evidence to back this up, I will of course re-evaluate my opinion.

Celtic will not be drawn into a ‘slanging-match’ – when all the facts are known and accepted, Celtic will speak – I am sure of it.

It costs us nothing to wait and see – I know it has taken a long time, but so has the Rangers liquidation, still not finalised – meanwhile let us get on with beating them on every occasion.

saltires en sevilla

?

Gold
While I admire your stance that the board are the dogs bollix, to say …..
“Celtic will not be drawn into a ‘slanging-match’ – when all the facts are known and accepted, Celtic will speak – I am sure of it.”
With respect that is utter garbage, the facts are known, align that with the highest court in the land has confirmed the cheating, the consequent cover ups, the 5WA, ten years of illegally registered players, jeezo I could go on and on all night, the club have NO intention of doing or saying anything, Pedro lied to the Res 12 boys, he asked them for the info, they supplied it and he crapped it for whatever reason, but there is no doubt he shat it, I believe he doubted their tenacity and the wherewithal to deliver, but they did.
Had the club any intention of speaking out they would have done so long before now, as well you know.
………………………………
Good story Mahe 😉

rebus67

I have read lots on the R12 issue and even contributed a little on it myself across various blogs over the years. I know it is important to keep the issue alive by constantly airing it, but I feel it is time to do something about it. I recognise that others are working on this continuously but I’d like to contribute in some way. Mahe’s leader provided the clue……through the word “people”. By “people” I do not mean WATP but football fans generally. What do they know about the issue; how much do they care; what would they be prepared to do about it?

I am suggesting a campaign to both inform and to solicit fans’ views on R12. If one has not been prepared already, I recommend the creation of a factoid sheet with key points of the issue. This should be distributed to Scottish football fans through newsletters of pertinent associations. For example, the SFSA claims to have almost 71,000 members. Through their newsletter it would be possible to reach those members with the factoid. Shortly after the distribution of the factoid, the SFSA members could be surveyed on their views on the issue. Survey Monkey is an inexpensive way of doing this. The issues would be determined by the resolutioners and a good suggestive guide can be found on Ralph’s ETIMS blog from an article a few days ago.

Where do I come in? Do I get rich from this project? The answer to the first is that I would design the format of the questionnaire, the covering email, and initiate the distribution of it. Finally, I would analyse the results and prepare a report for interested parties. On the second question, the answer is sadly(for me) “No”. Pro bono or Sonny Bono will be the fee structure.

FYI, the SFSA membership constitutes about 19% of the population that watch any of the league matches (SPL through to League 2) in Scotland on a particular game day(ref fag packet arithmetic). To secure cooperation of the SFSA some questions related to their agenda would be included in the survey.

What are the benefits of this? Amongst others, I state the following:

1. Increased awareness of issues outside of Celtic and Sevco;
2. An indication about what fans of other clubs are prepared to do.

Now there is always the possibility that the information derived from the survey will be ignored, but this is also true of other actions taken by the R12 ers. Wait! Is that Frank Sinatra lending his support! And from beyond the grave! “Just what makes that ant think he can move that rubber tree plant…Anyone knows, an ant can’t, move a rubber tree plant! …..” High hopes, indeed.

Thoughts, praise, critique, or money…….bring it on!

Got to go out into the DROG(drizzle and fog) of an Ottawa Valley day.Back later.

Rebus

saltires en sevilla

Rebus67

I agree we need to see some Mobilisation.

Was going to suggest something similar on seeking views.

Your idea is much better and I would totally support you.

I had suggested fans having a res 12 minute walkout ( maybe to return 12 mins later) at the Airdrie game but no responses so it was probably just a crap suggestion anyway. Fair dos

Just one thing – Activity Diary:

if there is a broad intention to campaign to delay season ticket payment/renewals as leverage. Some key dates should be included in the Factoid or Survey to concentrate minds.

Great idea buddy, wonder what others might be thinking?

HH

canamalar

Gold,
“Never again should those set of events be allowed to converge, and with our current board and officers, I am sure it won’t.”
I believe this sentence make a mockery of your whole argument, the current Plc incumbents were on watch all during “those set of events” and to date have done nothing about it, what makes you think this leopard will change its spots?

saltires en sevilla

Mahe,

Great read buddy.

Make a plan and stick to it. Blow away the froth.

Destination clearly understood but recognise the journey might have a few unscheduled diversions. Plan for those contingencies ( time and extra resources)

Nae bother – tho’ I don’t get to buy cars in our hoose.

Just as weel.

HH

Gold

I do admire the board, CEO and DD, for the job that is being done at Celtic.

I would be happy to stand up in court, backed by accepted evidence and statistics, and defend their stewardship of the club.

Would you stand up in court, put your reputation and lifestyle on the line with what you say you have ‘on them’, and swear that it is the truth?

Gossip and fragmented ‘known knowns’ are being moulded into hard facts, when in fact they are nothing of the kind.

No one in any position of trust would accuse another individual, or, organisation, of lying and corruption without incontrovertible proof. The law does not allow it.

The Celtic board is in a position of trust – trusted to protect and further the interests and well-being of the club – ‘shooting from the hip” would betray that trust and could cause great damage to the well-being and integrity of the club from retaliatory action.

Do you agree?

Gold
Yes and no.
A lot depends on what you mean by stewardship, I agree that they have done great in many sectors, others could do better and a few they have been a disaster, but as ever it;’s down to opinions.
They have taken a business decision to ignore, by and large the cheating, the corruption and the cover ups, their decision and many are not happy about it, many don’t givea, many don’t have the slightest clue what is happening, all they care about is the team wining.
See when you say things like the law does not allow it, do you actually believe that ? not a dig but ffs, the law doesn’t give a dam at times, a nod and the appropriate handshake is all that’s required, in scotland, as has been the case since the huns died, it’s been laughable to say the least.
I know that the Res 12 boys have the info that is irrefutable, Auldheid knows his stuff, they have a lawyer in tow as well, they have employed lawyers to confirm, so yes to your question would I stand up in a court, I very, very much doubt Pedro would, in fact, I would wager he would run a country mile had to to stand up in court.
The main existence of the PLC is to look after the interests of the shareholders first and foremost, that is their job, they have failed to do this, to say otherwise is plain wrong, just plain wrong.

Gold

I hope that one day we can prove what we all know happened. I would be at the front of the queue should crowd-funding be the desired route.

I do not want the club to be embroiled in the kind of media storm that would erupt should the proof fall short and the ‘shit hits the fan.

We would be dragged In and apportioned large lumps of the blame – it would become a Celtic v Rangers thing and the original lying, cheating, fraud and maladministration would be forgotten.

Without incontrovertible proof it is not worth that risk – not now, not ever.

31003

I’ll say something when I have something worthwhile to say

Gold
I very much doubt we will see it happen, hopefully our weans will and they can see justice dished out.
By the by, it is a Celtic rangers thing, whether we like it or not, at the end of the day we have been shat upon from a great height by wheans of people, I personally think we should have been more vocal many moons ago, had we been, imo we could have been singing from a very different page than we are today, there is only gonna be one loser in all this and it ain’t gonna be the huns, I accept they died n that, but who is playing at the bigot dome just now, who is still cheating, who didn’t pay their debts, who still have the referees and the sfa in their pockets, who is challenging us for the league this season, aye we can laugh at them but we won’t be laughing for long if they carry on the way they are going.

Threesy,

Not a bad start though! Read back to the post from Rebus just above you-thoughts?

I just read Rebus’s post, jeezo how I managed to miss it, I will respond in the morning, sleep is calling, I agree with it in the main, prob is many don’t want to talk to one another I have found, overcome this and it’s a home run imo.

Threesy
Great to see you posting.
Why the ef you are called threesy is anybody’s guess when there are two 00 and a 1 in your name, but there you go, wonders will never cease 😉

What Airdrie game ?

mahe

Threesy, welcome aboard and Hail Hail

saltires en sevilla

Scottish Cup 19/1/19

Auldheid

Hu Rebus

You made an offer of help the other day that I meant to respond to but couldn’t find the time.

I think I remember your past contributions and I’ve asked Michael to put us in touch by e mail. I know just where you can fit in. 🙂

31003

Res 12…….
I am fully aware of the reasons behind it and the preferred outcome for the resolutioners and their supporters. I have to say that initially I was right behind it, but……now I’m not so sure.
Yes, there should be a punishment of sorts but be very careful what you wish for.
Without some well supported entity playing out of Ibrox I really believe Scottish football would eventually die. If you’re honest about it, without them there is no competition or real rivalry. It’s only a matter of time before they’re pushing us in the league, something we need to keep us competitive, both at home and in Europe.
Unfortunately, that entity comes with a price…..it’s hellish followers. Our board and supporters are really caught between a rock and a hard place. Kill them off, lose the competition, lose interest, lose money, lose big name signings, lose tv interest,lose more money and so on…..you get my drift.
So, if you put yourselves in the boards shoes and, with a real chance to press that button, would you really cut off your nose to spite your face.
Like I say……..I really don’t know what I want!!

31003

Oh……and thanks all for the welcome

Auldheid

Mahe

On being unhappy I’ll share a story with you.all.

I’ll share a wee story with you. After I completed project managing a big IT project on temporary promotion, I was asked to remain in post to be my bosses Manager of the IT set up in the organsiation in Scotland.. He was based in London.

I always remember two things he said about why he wanted me to remain. He said:

1. You make things happen and

2. You have a way of making folk know you aren’t happy.

I smiled on the way home when I realised on the way home what my old boss he meant.

it wasn’t on my script until I got the lead in and the fact is I cannot help it. ? when I have just cause as articulated in the questions posed to which written answers have been requested,

Glad you acknowledged the other guys. I just happened to be home last week .and available.

Auldheid

Excuse the repeats I should proof read more before posting.

Garry Duncan

Auldheid
Love your indefatigablity.
George Galloway does too. ?
YNWA

31003

Saw an article in newsnow stating Celtic are “front runners” to sign Karamoke Dembele. Seems he’s only a few months away from being able to sign a professional contract. Make it happen

Auldheid

31003 that is fair comment because the more you find out the more you are reminded of the possible unintended consequences for Celtic and that has been one reason for the under the radar persistence o f Res12 until now – to protect Celtic ,not those running it although they are inseperable.

Howver the fear you speak of is never a way forward, whilst doing the right thing, is and there is as much if not more danger of the game dying long term than from exposure of lies in the short.

Why dont the SFA and SPL just come clean and explain why they acted as they did on Res12 and LNS?

Most folk appreciate that keeping 50K paying customers in the professional game was always going to be a major business driver. Had they taken supporters into their confidence and explained their commercial rationale and fears the idiocy written into of the 5 Way Agreement might have been avoided.

Admit that in keeping “Rangeres” alive, mistakes were made, especially the retention of trophies fraudulently won . The SFA/SPL should have been dictating the terms of acceptance into the Scottish game ,not Charles Green using fear and threats of walking away..

The same club myth (which conflicts with UEFA FFP Article 12 btw ) introduces a moral hazard which allows TRFC to repeat the same debt ridden path to success as before.

And when a club gets into so much debt to win that it HAS to win then you risk a repeat of Feb 2012 if the rule breaking in 2011 is not matched by success on the park, more guaranteed in Scotland by Scottish referees than in Europe (ask Ally).

There is now a club playing out of Ibrox keeping a large number of supporters in the game but the club is not Rangers but even if that were made official based on UEFA rules and the trophy count started at zero or if it could be shown LNS was misled and titles should be asterisked, what would their reaction be? Armageddon or acceptance of a truth that requires fair mindedness to accept? Armageddon would be a reason for football sanctions in any case.

So do we seek a game free from fear or accept one where cheats not only win but are in a position to do it again?

£14m debt whilst all othe clubs have a break even policy? This is where the landscape can be changed. Proper licensing appropriate to the Scottish game..

Finaly replacing how many at Ibrox might walk away to the game overall is a challenge to the current hate based model.

Could we make the game much more of a familiy event, use some of the UEFA prize money to help all clubs not just the solidarity payment,? Maybe that is a challenge football is too lazy to face when supporters are happy to roll up regardless to be entertained by the manifestation of bitterness..

Perhaps Res12 is necessary if only to get folk thinking just as you are doing? Are we happy with the kind of football world we live in?

If not lets be the change we want to see in the world.

Margaret McGill

If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple of payments.

Margaret McGill

Rebus
Statistically democratically speaking…
Most Celtic supporters want the huns back! fact! Get used to it.
Most Rangers supporters would like nothing more than to obliterate Celtic into oblivion.
40% of Americans believe the Earth is 6000 years old.
33% of Americans think climate change is a ruse to give the niggardly tax dollars.
2 million African Americans didnt vote in the last election because there was no black candidate
52% of Brits voted for Brexit
55% of Scots voted to be constantly shafted (like Tims but not so much on the religious divide)
Catholics believe the creator of the universe stumbled about the Palestinian desert 2000 years ago in human form.
Muslims believe that a nomad with writing implements obsessed with fannies in the Arabian desert 1500 years ago was the creators secret messenger.
Hinduism and Buddhism are the cartoon characters of yore.

What are you expecting people to do exactly?

Margaret McGill

If you want the huns back and all that vile repugnant filth then yes I agree.
Otherwise no I do not agree.