A Duff Deal to Sell?
So Glasgow Celtic wish to buy a controlling stake in Shamrock Rovers according to reports .
Having been over for successful talks over taking their youth coach , Damian Duff , it seems the conversation next turned to a stake in the Dublin based club .
The Irish Independent had this to say
“ It is believed Celtic favour assuming overall control of the biggest brand in Irish football. Any ceding of shareholding will require a meeting of Rovers members, who will be interested to discover the terms of any proposed agreement. Celtic’s Irish chairman Dermot Desmond has in the past pondered various ventures into the domestic game but it is understood the Hoops’ progress in recruiting some of the best teenage talent in the country has made them a more attractive investment.’
Ive seen some posters very much in favour of this , proclaiming great move as they have revamped their youth set up and have great talent coming through .
And I can also see the sense in having a club close to home that you can loan players to and form a close relationship with .
On paper , Im sure this makes sense . It could also be a Brexit based decision , a backdoor to a European set up .
Myself though Im not in favour . Allow me to explain please .
By all accounts Shamrock have reinvented their youth set up and have found the right man to do it . Damian has quite a good playing resume and that old saying “ could command respect in the dressing room “ could be said about him .
He has played under some good managers and seemingly has picked up a trick or two.
Most importantly he approached the game professionally himself , and is teaching the younguns to ,, that can only be applauded .
Word got to Glasgow through some channel and now we have Damian on the books .
I think for the academy at Lennoxtown he could make leaps and bounds with his charges bringing with him that attitude.
But then the controlling stake discussions came to light ,, and coveting the kids apparently has a big part to play .
I find the suits either incredibly gallus or incredibly naive on this one .
Knowing they operate in a bent and racist sectarian market , they want to bring more of the the biggest victims of that sectarianism / racism to take part in the charade that is football in bonny bigoted Scotland .
Now lets be clear , we know they treat it as a business ,, thats not in doubt anymore. Not a football club but a business who’s business is football . If the Plc do anything , it is not for the betterment of anything but the bottom line . We know this .
These youth are to make money , its that simple . Their career is second best here to the board .
So should the Plc try to tempt any of this crop of young players to move and play for Glasgow Celtic , do the Plc even realise what exactly they are asking them to go through? Do they care ?
Has any thought been given to the racial abuse that those of Irish birth ,and even descent as Aiden can attest to , receive whilst playing the national sport for Glasgow Celtic in Scotland ?
Will these young men be helped or hurt by a society that can sing Go Home with impunity ?
Why should they move to a league where the refs have an agenda against them which in real terms means theyre likely to get hurt ?
I could go on .
Leave your home to get abused and play in a sectarian backwater for a Plc that no manager can stick for more than a few years as they get undermined incase they tear away from the competition too much , and all to make us money ! What an offer !
They could do with this and it makes sense on paper . Would probably produce a few players , be profitable , plus it lifts the profile of the club back in “ the old country “. Win Win some might say .
On the other hand ,,, they wanna take the best of our boys and put em in the firing line . And will they protect them ? Dont make me laugh .
Look at whats happened to the higher profile Irishmen that have chosen Glasgow recently . Treated like crap by the Plc and nowadays the vile rhetoric and hatred is worse than ever ,, could the timing be any worse ?
And then call me cynical but this move for Duffer ,, hes a familiar face already in situ and that can only help some of these players / kids make the decision to make the jump right ?
Should any break through and then turn to Duffer for help theres a good chance he will be scratching his head himself at what passes for footie and especially what passes for refs . And if he does speak up he will get the treatment from the clan and press !
The wee Drogheda scamp could play dont get me wrong ,, but these potential bhoys could well look to him as their mentor and protector in their new environment .
Will he be ?
And call me paranoid but there wouldnt be any moves afoot to position him into the dug out if / when the position becomes available would there ?
Because meeting rookie with rookie would be clearly a case of lets be on each others level which hopefully gives us a good title race and the gravy flows thick and fast !
It would be stupid and naive of the suits to even contemplate sticking him in charge.
Because appointing a rookie when you are two years away from the fabled ten would be simply admitting you arent that serious about it .
Theres already threats on blogs about hitting the car park should this years title defence prove unsuccessful .
And thats with a good manager ,, so imagine the uproar if a newbie placeman flops !
Let us all hope the Plc dont go there with Duffer .
If they do , they deserve all they get .
Back to the proposed takeover , at present statistics say one in six people in the Republic were not born there . The demographics have hugely shifted and this could well see a revival of sorts for youth football as the children of non natives and even non natives themselves are not immersed in the GAA culture which many native families are.
A quality crop of youth today should be the spine of the national team tomorrow , and any and all who cherish the national team should hold a wee interest in the development of what has been called a good crop .
Looking at national interests , do we really want this crop to go there ?
Games are the most important helper for a potential footballer of course .
Under this board there has been an average to poor amount of youth brought through .
Theres 3 in the first team now which is good , but we arent exactly known for mass youth players coming through .
Dont think the Plc have a strong hand here to tempt them over myself . Unless Duffer is their hand.
Now to be crystal clear I am not , nor would I ever , advocate ending “ the Holy Trinity “ of Ireland , Scotland , and Celtic . Were the same blood and the bond will always be there . Great men like Sean Fallon would turn in their grave at anyone even contemplating ending the special bond between any branches of the three.
Thats not what I am getting at nor want .
Its this Plc , at this time , in that league that worries me .
The bond between the Glasgow based branch and Ireland has deteriorated over the last generation . Years of neglect coupled with misplaced expectation , plus saturation of satellite tv and little investing into the travel infrastructure helped those bonds fade , but they are still there mostly in the hard core areas though .
This Plc have already pissed off the existing fan base , just read the blogs and most are unhappy at what they see .
If they wish to expand their territory by taking over one of the countries top clubs , and whisk away its best youth , some would not be happy at all .
But lets say some follow the kids and take an interest in the Sphell and their careers.
Whats the chances they end up pissed off , after all we are and we were fresh faced fans also once right ?
Now if you are actually going to try and make inroads into the Irish market , and this move would certainly help on that front ,, is what we are seeing really what you want to hold up and say check it out and buy into this ?
Most already consider it a Mickey Mouse league , and Dubliners in their 30’s and upwards are EPL crazy due to the Sky surge in the 90’s.
If youre gonna hold up that league with its huge issues , probably get it broadcast on tv if theres enough interest generated by this new development , do not expect a flood of new customers . Especially with the Prem so big not to mention the purists dream , GAA.
Rugby and the boxing are still huge , plus McGregor has helped lift mixed martial arts in the homeland .
Wrong league , wrong time .
So nah actually , I think those kids should stay and play , abuse free , see how good they are , help raise the national league a wee bit ,, and then should they be given a choice , hopefully pick a place and team where they may play to the best of their ability with only sporting barriers holding them back , not cultural and social , and have the opportunity to raise a family ( God willing ) in relative normality.
This board better be careful what they are doing here . This has potential to backfire.
If I were the receiving chairman I know exactly what I would say to my guests who came to buy ,, a common saying in those parts
“ Smell ya later ! “
We are looking for guest contributions and will publish with pleasure . Please consider helping us stand out a bit by having many different points of view as the main article .
Yours would be more than welcome .
Good to see you back,mate. And in fine form too,I must say. I’ve little doubt that many readers may find this article controversial,but I think you have nailed so many different aspects of the whole affair.
As you say,the idea is unlikely to garner more support for us in Ireland;yes,there are many many Celtic supporters there-and I’m proud to say I have met with a fair few!-but the EPL has made such inroads that we would be trying to stop a runaway train. And without necessarily going through your article point by point,the other main thrust is of dropping young lads into a hostile environment.
I want to see as many as possible top quality lads of Scottish and Irish background playing for Celtic. Of course I do,but we owe them a duty of care. It looks like Kieran may miss the rest of the season with his hip injury-operation being mooted,ffs!-which might be down to getting kicked all over Scotland by thugs,or playing on carpeted concrete. It’s certainly an unusual injury at such an early age.
Others,as you say,have been vilified from the terraces and on the streets in long campaigns condoned by the press and,frankly,by the justice system. As well as on the park,of course!
Additionally,we have no right whatsoever to simply cherrypick the best young players from another team. I know that other teams have so-called “feeder” teams,but that is wrong for the subordinate club and its fans-and it is wrong for football too.
As for Damian Duff,I cannot comment. Your suggestion may well prove to be correct,in time. If so,I will obviously wish him every success. But I’ll be somewhat less than pleased that events “conspired” to make it so.
MAHE, very good and very interesting points in your post, yes why would any young irish player want to come to Glasgow and get told to go home the famine is over, as for Damien duff just let us see how it pans out, hope your feeling better.hh.
Howdy,fella. The other side of the coin is the old Fighting Irish. A young guy,offered the chance at Celtic,he is quite properly advised of what he might have to face over in Scotland.
It’s hard enough to make your way in the game without having to face all that crap,after all!
Young guy just looks at his advisor,rolls up his sleeves,and says-Aye,is that right,is it?
Hope you and yours are smashing.
all good here thanks, hope you are well.hh.
Hi Mahe, hope you’re feeling better.
Thought-provoking piece on all facets of the proposed take over/tie-up. Devil’s advocacy comes over loud and clear.
That said, you do offer a legitimate insight into the latent consequential downsides of such an arrangement, however I am ‘keeping my powder dry’ on this one at the moment.
I can see lots of reasons, footballing, commercial and political, why it could be a good thing for both clubs.
Will be watching, listening and reading with keen interest going forward.
I see we are apparently that bit closer to signing Andrew Guttman,a young US left-back. I posted this the other night about him,and in reply to POR CIERTO,whose own response I missed at the time,it would seem that he is likely to be a replacement,at least pro tem.
Seems Celtic are interested in Andrew Guttman. Who he,you might well ask?
Well,if this article is anything to go by,he won’t be lacking in effort and application. Oh,and he’s one of the highest-rated youngsters in USA.
Philvis-style Thumbs-up,big fella!
Off-topic,if I may beg your indulgence. But relevant,as hip injuries are a shocker for a sportsman.
I really enjoyed that read, though you an Irishman views Glasgow in such a way, as you do, perturbs me. It is because it is true. You have shone a light from Cali.
Tae see oorselves as ithers see us.
Glad you are fighting fit again.
You worried about this KT hip problem too?
Very much so. This is not usually a problem which afflicts sportsmen,and when it does,it is usually as they get a lot older than Kieran.
Roy Keane had to retire from it,but he was 36 at the time. Andy Murray is in his early 30s. Your average person,never a problem,and if it becomes so,they are usually past working age.
To suffer this at 21 is very much a worry.
If your hip goes, your legs go.
Not many with hip problems ever recover fully.
Extremely worried for KT.
Indeed,mate. It’s due to your body compensating for a weakness by overloading other areas.
Andy Murray was plagued by injuries even from the start of his career. This might be due to him having,I think,a split kneecap,causing him to strain other load-supporting parts of his body.
Get him sorted,please!
Does anyone know what the actual problem with his hip is? Also, is it on the same side where he broke his leg previously?
Very little information about it. What concerns me is that it has escalated. Surely our medical staff should have been on the ball here and realised that there may be a serious issue.
He was on the bench a fortnight ago,so has clearly been in training. That’s simply not good enough.
Andy Murray is Scotland’s individual Greatest ever Sportsman.
Love the Dunblane Hibee
Very difficult to argue with that,Garry. But Alan Wells,erm,runs him close.
Great post, but I have to say I don’t agree with some of it.
I think from the player acquisition point of view it’s a win win for us and Rovers, I’m also sure any young fella will know all about the bigoted huns, any footballer I knew back in Ireland, and I knew a fair few, sure did and to a man had a healthy dislike of anything hunish, as you say for the PLC is all about the money, they don’t care about anything or anyone bar the filthy lucre, people are expendable, any PLC I have ever had dealings with have been the same, money first, last and everything.
As for KT, the wife asked me a few months ago how old KT was, I told her and asked why she was asking, she told me that she thought he was much older as young people should be playing and exerting themselves so much at that young age, what would she know eh, only her whole life dedicate in one way or another to the health profession.
Pity, the boy had so, so much promise, I can’t imagine the PLC will be overjoyed either, their biggest asset will now be worthless, even if he has a successful op, teams will not splash out big bucks, not a hope.
Its promoting bigotry on all fronts.
Its poison but thats what most Celtic supporters want.
Bigotry poison and hatred.
Celtic should play in a cow field.
This Irish connection is a millstone IMHO.
I agree that we seem to sell the rivalry/hatred, but I Disagree strongly about Celtic’s Irish connection being a millstone.
I dont think one necessarily has to lead to the other.
for me, Celtic’s irish connection is the corner stone of our club… as TB said when playing for Celtic, you are playing for a people and a cause. For me, the problem is that we are losing that, and instead have turned our history into a commodity; in so doing, we are in danger of becoming just a green coloured commercial enterprise (which, as you suggest, doesn’t like the blue coloured commercial enterprise).
We live in a world where, on one hand, ethnic voices are celebrated in ways never done before. (Of course, there is a countervailing presence which opposes that).
The problem for me is not Celtic’s Irish connection. It is that the true meaning of that connection has not been protected, and is not celebrated. Some in Scotland see it/use it as a means to separate people. But that is their problem, not ours.
For me, the problem is that Celtic are selling a watered down, commercialized version of their history …. sell jerseys with cetlic crosses on them, but dont want fans to sing songs about Irish freedom.
That is not to say people should or can say/sing whatever they want … but, at the moment, Celtic dont have balance right between moving forward and respecting our past.
I am not saying that finding that balance is always easy, but I think they could do a better job of moving forward, yet still embracing and celebrating our roots.
I will say that your note struck a chord with me, and I have responded without really thinking this through … so, Ireserve the right to completely change my views later, once I have given it more thought.
Disagree. If Celtic were in the EPL (as Dermott wants) most Irish “Celtic” supporters(in the Republic anyway) would resort back to their first club Liverpool or Chelsea or whatever.
Shamrock rovers is a diversion from Europe (Celtic’s historic playing field. If you know your history) and encourages a bigot fest for more money. You can keep it.Why would any good players want to get KT type injuries at 21 playing in the SPL anyway?
This is a subject that is obviously important to both of us. I am moving in the direction you are, but, obviously, am resisting. I would like to continue this discussion, but (i) I am supposed to be working, and (ii) more importnatly, I would like to give my reply a bit of thought, and give your response a proper reply.. I hope that is okay, and we can pick this up later.
Bigotry and sectarianism sells, end of, we will never change that, maybes our grandweans will.
You surprise me! I thought you would proudly wave the Irish flag and its connection to the club. There goes my ability to read a person through a blog!
Personally, I have thought that the real downside of the Irish connection is that it is overstated and operates against a club open to all. Don’t get me wrong, I am proud of the heritage and also the real reason for the founding of the club, but the support is broader than that now, I hope.
I sincerely hope you are wrong about your view that Celtic supporters want bigotry and hatred…….that would mean that we are no better than the other lot. I do not get to go to games to see what the non-bloggers think so my info is limited.
However, I went to university with a Celtic supporter who symbolised your caricature of a supporter. Hatred and bigotry in abundance as a response to the hatred and bigotry that he perceived. It turned an amusing lad into a very bitter person. In fact, to gain his respect, I had to knock him through a plate glass window after he insulted my girl, the Rebusette. It is one of the most powerful arguments I have ever presented, but not my proudest achievement.
By the way, I am back. Remember Jimthetim, a toast to you at 8.00pm your time!
TeT ,, I just knew you wouldnt see it that way after giving it your backing earlier in the week.
While the average young man might indeed knows something of the HUns tendencies , we who study Scottish football know just how bad it is , they dont and just think one team has a kinda bad support , that might give us stick .
Theres no idea of the level of bigotry . To open up what is a desperate setup to a new market would be stupid .
And then I want rid of these old men , they are plotting long term moves here ,, not music to my ears one bit .
Throw in another couple details ,, such as Kt career seemingly in balance ? Star youth crocked already will raise questions and eyebrows across some parents of potential players ?
And there will be many more diverse Irish players from now on like oh ah Paul Mc Grath ,, they will get even worse stick ffs.
This Plc keep going back to mother Ireland , and their intentions are not pure . Its noticeable and I keep pointing out they love an Irishman in the dugout . Why is that ?
Its because the Scotch support cant agree on any Scot , so the easiest thing to do is stick an Irishman in as ,,,
gets more leeway
looks good to the support
usually says the right words ( huge club , growing up went to games etc )
can play on the pull of the club when recruiting ( heart rules head )
the pull of the club will help him stay when doesnt get his way ( Brendan right now )
garners a bit of support in the old country , keeps the club a bit relevant
keeps Dermot happy presumably
They keep going to the well ,, and might go once too often if they arent careful . I dont like em , dont trust em , and would tell them go get your own house in order and come back and talk to us . Your branch of the Celtic family is surrounded by rotten soil and as a matter fact looks as if that rot is spreading . Will find a better branch or grow our own thanks . Smell ya later !
Happy forking Friday ! God Bless Rebus and tomthetim53 plus our Leigh and all who need help at this time .
Oh , we got offered ad’s for money ! Doing something right ! Cant wait for tomorrows post !
Some may disagree, but I dont think that the anti-catholic animus is any greater than the anti-black feeling that used to pollute many north american sports… it was so bad here, that there were even segregated leagues in baseball. but today, most kids (whatever colour) love Step Currie, or Michael Jordan …colour is not an issue.
I’m not saying the system over here is perfect, but I am saying that people can change if there is a will to make a change; the Celtic/Sevco/Rangers things does not have to be the way it is ….
ps. rebus, I know you weren’t away for that long, but still good to see you back.
TeT ,, and hey , the news that Belfast Celtic shall return announced today will have a big impact on the Glasgow based club . I have preached about branches for a long time and Im sure some are sick of it but theres Beal Fierste now has two branches of the family ,, Donegal Celtic also .
Purer cleaner branches I might add . Hail Hail
You hit the nail on the head with the “will to change”, it’s getting worse in scotland, worse than I ever remember it being, thems going bust has only reinforced their hatred, they can’t blame themselves so we are the obvious target, the major difference I see between the colour issue and the religious one is the people here are so fecking thick, there is little chance of them seeing the light, they are still living in the 1690s FFS, this is a major stumbling block.
We also have a PLC who are hell bent on using the divide to cream off the support, it’s not a very healthy state of affairs.
As someone who went on holiday to Dublin every year from 11 till 16 and twice a year from 17 till 20 when meeting MrsCCB in Scotland caused a change of emphasis,I found then that almost all young Dubliners not of the GAA persuasion and even some who were were invariably Celtic supporters in those days.
Subsequent visits and meetings with Dubliners of the age group I’d known previously were very much less so.Though it has to be said that I got the second CCB family season ticket from a young lad who worked in the Bank of Ireland and came to only a few games.
The point of all that is I can’t see any reason why the lead article writer could draw the conclusion that DD and PL se the tie-up as anything more than a feeder club which just happens to be based in Ireland!
His other point/conclusion may have some substance to it,but by the time the first player to ‘transfer’ to the ‘big team’ arrives he,the player,will know all about what he will encounter.
The sad thing is that I think that it had reduced quite a bit,even in my golf club,when Sevco were ‘coming through the leagues’ and has regurgitated itself now that they see themselves ‘back where they belong ‘which has been ably assisted by the nonchalance of the Board.At least I agree on something in the lead?!
2019 a momentous year….the year that MIT and Rebus met up in TO…….and both survived.
Apparently, I have a B12 deficiency which causes fatigue and lightheadedness. Given you have these two issues, this is a good outcome. By the way, I had to suggest to the GP that this may be the problem and other more serious factors like Xmas bills and M&S pudding were not to blame. My body is a finely tuned engine and maybe it was not able to absorb the right amount of right kind of oil. Now, the tappits sound better, the valves are opening and closing in sync, and my exhaust……..well let’s leave the analogy now!
a few of us got a fright this week … found out that one of our pals (just turned 50) suffered a massive heart attack and is now on by-pass, and may need a transplant.
I try to do 30 minutes on the bike at least 5 times a week, but I definitely need to work on improving my diet.
Things like that do make you think, but also appreciate what you have.
are you okay with majoc changing his family name from BMCUWP to majoc?
Dont misunderstand me. I am proud of Celtic’s and my own Irish roots. However, as a Scottish person I loathe and despise the OF. Its a cancer. IMHO, especially since 2003 and again after 2012 this vile repugnance has been repackaged in what can only be labelled a corporate manufactured bigot fest encouraged by the irish raj and appreciated by many of our Irish supporters. What the Celtic PLC have done is unforgivable. This shamrock rovers pish is just a symptomatic of the evil.
Having lived in the Republic for over 20 years it’s my experience that Glasgow Celtic are of real interest to very few.
Apart from a handful of pubs in Dublin and a few pubs around the country you’ll struggle to find a pub watching a Celtic game and that includes the ‘Old Firm’ derbies.
On similar lines to our European decline any interest in Celtic has reduced over the years. On match days I wouldn’t bother going to the local as the Racing Channel, EPL and even Leinster rugby matches take priority.
This might not be the case in the Six Counties but support for Celtic beyond a very passing interest is confined mainly to working class urbanised areas.
Often you’ll see comedy sketches on TV here and the Ned’ often wears Celtic colours. He drinks cheap super lager, takes drugs etc. A Rab C Nesbitt type character ( I’ve seen similar stuff on Only an Excuse.)
Take the Old Firm out of Scotland and the League of Ireland isn’t a million miles away from Scottish football.
There is very little sectarianism here. Very few want the bile associated with the Old Firm.
Lads, the product is poor. Glasgow football relies on the ‘Scottish Problem.’
Ireland has moved on.
Scottish football including the PLC can’t provide a reasonable, reliable, safe and non sectarian product.
These days soccer has to compete with an ever increasing number of alternatives. A mediocre, sectarian product directed by self serving incompetents isn’t really on anyone’s radar.
Shamrock Rovers are a good club based in a working class area of Dublin. They’d be better off with a mid table EPL club rather than the ever increasing baggage of the greedy PLC.
Celtic PLC should put their own house in order before polluting anyone else’s.
CCB,,,they want to monetise bigotry . They can eff off and leave our boys alone. Their aims are impure and they are not worthy to be custodians of that great club. The first black Irish player to play in Glasgow will take hell. Let them have normal lives and careers ,,forget that bigoted league and set up. Until such times as it has normalised.
Hope you’re well
of course, unless the black players kneel down at the American national Anthem to demonstrate that black lives matter after another cold blooded murder. Then they are perceived as behaving in a very niggardly way. (in the illiberal sense) 🙂
On occasion I have visited Irish pubs in Sweden Greece Cyprus and the USA when Celtic games were “on”. The Irish there on these occasions would prefer to watch the EPL game instead. Fact!
Google George Soros and Black Lives Matter.
Mahe et all.
What I think is a good thing is from a footballing perspective, nothing else, my feeling re the PLC are well know, they are parasitic right wing tory scum.
he seems quite generous 🙂 Not so niggardly
TeT,,,I actually disagree. The footie there is terrible, plastic pitches and bent refs.
Better training facilities and possibly coaching but then with no reserve league , I think it’s best to stay and actually play proper games in a competitive league. Much better for development actually.
They don’t have a strong hand to play here at all, the Plc. Good.
THE GOMBEEN MAN, hi pal long time no speak, can i add my tuppenceworth, where I live in Cheshire the m56 motorway is a stones throw from my house, many times while taking the dugs for a walk if Manchester united were playing, bear in mind the m56/a55 was the main route from Holyhead to Manchester, there would be bus after bus from Ireland with the tricolour and Manchester united flags at the windows, so this myth about every Irishman supporting celtic is just that a myth,, I counted 30 buses one day going to old Trafford. anyway hope you are well.hh.
Big Packy , Fresno Gooners (arsenal supporters club ) actually go to the games from fresno believe it or not. Their banner is displayed when they are there.
The CSC died . LA one died (culver city ) and San Diego are homeless at the minute having lost the Stag and Lion (can you effing believe the name of the bar,, for a CSC !!! )
2 in San Fran area. Says it all.
Why would they want to watch Motherwell v Celtic in the Scottish Pub League or worse still Sevco games?
Poor football wrapped in Scottish bigoty expolited by businessmen?
Maybe some others might have a more rewarding life if they woke up?
Most Irish folk wish Celtic well but have no affinity with the nonsense that surrounds it.
Life’s too short and the insecurities of the Brits and their petty sectarian divisions doesn’t cut it with many here.
On a personal note, it’s a pointless exercise. A corrupt medicore league with no transparency and no signs of getting any better.
absolutely agree, you know what if bonnie Scotland could get rid of the orange lodge, I think we would be on a level playing field.hh.
You seriously think we wouldn’t benefit from the pick of the talent at Rovers ?
When we won the league at Tannadice in 2008, watched the game in my local in Rathcoole just outside Dublin, there was a handful of us in a packed pub, some twat even had the audacity to tell us to keep it quite cos we were disturbing his peace, a manure fan.
exactly, did you see my post earlier, honestly tet busload after busload going to old Trafford irish tricolours and man u flags sickening.hh.
I knew blokes who went to engerland every week to see the likes of manure and Lpool among others, brainwashed by the TV.