Us & Them

Cue for a song! Today’s article is a welcome addition by JIMTHETIM53. Thought-provoking and angst-producing,in equal measure.

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I’ve been thinking about a lot of the talk about life without the Ibrox club.

Whether it is true that our board are fixated with the concept of ‘The Old Firm’.

The financial implications, our ambitions domestically and in Europe. etc

I have a question to ask.

When the tap tier was closed, attendances were down by 10,000 +, Sevco were not in our league. Is that the reason? Or was it Celtic’s performance under RD?

Maybe it was a bit of both?

Not all of RD’s games were bad, far from it. But we were very inconsistent over the two seasons. However, we won two leagues and the league cup, cheated out of another cup. We were poor in Europe.

Is that enough to account for such a drop in attendances?

Or is it true what a lot of posters think,that a lot of supporters think that it’s all about beating Them? It’s ingrained after generations of thinking?

How did we do financially in the absence of an opponent from the South Side? I cant remember any details but I don’t think we were ever in any danger. Maybe not record breaking turnover or profits but we managed without them and getting to CL group stages.

As a fan, I didn’t miss them. I hate Glasgow Derbies more than I love them. The bad bit in me enjoyed the embarrassment of them playing part timers in wee parks and trying to retain their ‘dignity’.

Just my opinion but I couldn’t care less if they went to the wall never to be seen again. Even if we were slightly poorer as a result, it would be worth it. As far as TV companies contributions go, it’s such a joke I couldn’t give a shit. Could they honestly give us any less without mass withdrawals of their services? If that happened give it to STV & BBC.

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Jim has done well to again save you all from my rant about officialdom,but it’s coming! To avoid this,mail Mahe on

sentinelcelts@gmail.com

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“Asked if it deserved more than a yellow card, the Northern Irishman said: “I think Craig is a very good referee, he maybe didn’t see it at the time, he was maybe blinded, but it wasn’t a good challenge at all.”

To begin a statement with ‘Craig is a very good referee’ is a joke. He is NOT!

And then the maybes – maybe he didn’t see it, maybe he was blinded – NO he saw it all stop making excuses! ‘It wasn’t a good challenge’? NO it was brutal! Tell it like it was!

Disgraceful comment. Why is he so cowardly? Even Levein, McInnes, Clarke, Lennon and dare I say Gerrard are prepared to come out and complain about referees in Scotland. But never our manager. Tell me Brendan, is it working? Are our players protected?

From the Herald:

“And then Hibernian substitute Darnell Johnston caught the ankle of Emilio Izaguirre with an awful challenge, he should have been sent off, to give Celtic’s medical staff even m ore work to do. As if they weren’t already busy enough. ”

He should have been sent off.

Why cant Brendan have the balls to say things like that instead of the pitiful things he says?

That’s where you are so wrong JTT53, he is a top referee, he can control a game to suit the agenda, he can break up our play when needed and allow our opposition the leeway they need, he is a master at it.
Brendan has been told not to rock the boat, he is a top coach, but is turning into spineless like his bosses. that is the saddest thing I have had to write about him, whatever, I believe it to be 100% true.

big packy

JIMTHETIM53 AND THE EXILED TIM/ sadly I agree with your comments about Brendan love the man but he has definitely been told not to rock the boat, I wonder who told him.?

I haven’t see morelos’s stamp that got him sent off yet, but this is a shocking challenge that madhun allowed without a word, he clearly saw it, yet the pundits and media say feck all.
https://twitter.com/weefenians/status/1093267662891876366?s=12

Mags
From last night, wtf can we do other than moan about it, I contribute feck all, as far as I can see that’s all I can do.

A thing of beauty

I am at a loss as to why Brendan is not calling out the referees for the disgraceful assaults on our players. I hate the phrase keeping his powder dry because I associate it with our board and their continual lack of action over resolution 12 but I think that is what Brendan is doing. I am hoping if we win this league he is going to let the establishment know exactly what he thinks of our tin pot league which allows thuggery to flourish. As I say I’m hoping that’s the case because what other reason can there be? Even the players must be thinking ffs gaffer, you gonna say something about this. It’s weird. I think the full time issue is also him planting a seed. My sister and I were discussing it on the way to the game. Cosy corner boy did not take part as he is too deaf and his hearing aid is broken!! Anyway I digress, if 15 referees are full time on say £60k a year they are less likely to jeopardise this position by giving random shite decisions to the Huns. Think about it. 10 years at the top making a good amount of money would encourage young blood that maybe never quite made it as a player. Nobody who is not full time can referee in the top flight either, so you need to be committed. I think Brendan is thinking along the same lines and is trying to weed out the MIBs in favour of people who will need to protect their earnings and not their team. Like I said earlier this week, when the foreign refs were here we did not win but the games were fair across the board. The laws were applied. In Scotland, especially with this crop of Dallas babies we are seeing the laws applied to favour sevco and impede us. I am in no doubt about it. Until we can get rid of this current crop and bring in full time professionals who’s family rely on them doing their job properly the stats quo will remain.

Awe Naw

Without the Old Firm;

There is no TV deal. No Glasgow Derby. No millions of pounds every weekend attracted through bookies. No bargaining chips for any future pipe dream alternative. Any future invite to a new league will only happen if its the old firm thats invited. By the same measure you are also losing a tried and tested brand that has been over 100 years in the market. Too risky to attempt to buy into any hopeful alternative market. Our plc operate on a cake and eat it policy. Maximise income at every opportunity. Fuck everything else. Scottish football including Celtic is declining quickly and massively and it will not be long before we are hardly competing in Europe and receiving lucrative handouts. Therefore it makes sense to bolster the home product and for all the authorities to help them in any way they can. The problem is that due to rabid hun depravity they cannot help themselves even while everyone is deliberately looking the other way. Call it animal instinct. The Steve McLean cup final I always felt was also a contributing factor to the 10k loss of match day attendees. As well as the boring football. Boring manager. Lack of real quality as Sevco proved. Celtic have not called out the SFA since MON left and Peter Lawwell arrived and since operation save Rangers was first muted and became apparent in 2003 the Rowbottom , Calderwood era..this is a very small part of us looking the other way about the big bad hun ..just like every other part of the establishment. No way will they want to go through another phoenixing. That lesson has already been learned. Billionaires operate solely within the establishment. There is no such thing as a rogue billionaire. DD knows what side of the establishment he desires to belong too, on the inside. We are part of the cartel that runs Scottish football. That cartel is not there to strive for excellence in sport. The purpose of the cartel is to collectively get you to part with your money. There are skirmishes within the cartel of course as a possible treble treble and the avoidance of another phoenixing alludes too. Its a fine balancing act that our PLC are fucking brilliant at. Its repugnant exploitation that they excel in. Overpriced ST, ridiculous charging fees, soon to be parking fees, TV subscriptions, bookies,retail, Shooting fish in a pond see union bears 18.73 monthly direct debit. The cartel is united in that aim everything else such as integrity, honesty, accountability, your own childrens personal safety for goodness sake…..goodwill dont make me laugh…only in the accounts

So when it has been proven in a court of law many times beforehand that industrial scale cheating was performed for and on behalf of Rangers by UEFA, SFA, SPL, SPFL, Celtic plc, SNP government, opposition to government, The Scottish Judiciary, Police Scotland, the entire UK media, The scottish refereeing fraternity etc. Then please I beg of you refrain from calling out those that you want calling out. It only highlights that you are unwittingly been duped and much worse than that…..worser still…I need to read it….accept it finally that Celtic are the establishment club under our Old Firm role. The esablishment hates Fenians and Catholics. Celtic PLC take on Celtic is that it has nothing to do with either.

ATHINGOFBEAUTY

Problem is that at £880 a match,they are already on £60k and more while still being part-time. Plus the UEFA and FIFA stuff,probably another £15-20k. And that means that they still have their “day job” to fall back on,you know,for pin money.

Take the latter away from them and they might be a little resentful towards someone.

Awe Naw

Rangers striker Alfredo Morelos poised to get off hook again but Allan McGregor could be in the dock
Aberdeen’s Scott McKenna was also sent off after the two players tangled at Pittodrie.

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By Liam Fenian Mc Bryce
10:22, 7 FEB 2019UPDATED10:44, 7 FEB 2019

Steven Gerrard’s long-term problem is how he keeps Alfredo Morelos away from that self-destruct button.

But, for the moment, the Rangers boss may just settle for getting the Colombian livewire off the hook for his latest misdemeanour.

Morelos went from the sublime to the ridiculous as he was sent off for the third time against Aberdeen this season alone.

It’s the combustible striker in a nutshell, two fine goals followed by letting his manager down badly again after getting involved in a needless tangle with Scott McKenna.

Both men saw red from ref Bobby Madden as Rangers eventually ran out 4-2 winners at Pittodrie.

Once the dust settles and emotions are back in check, Rangers will consider whether this latest offence is worth an appeal.

And, despite admitting McKenna looked decidedly sheepish in the dressing room at full-time, Derek McInnes may be pondering the same question.

Morelos’ sending off at the same venue during the first game of the season, also a clash with McKenna, was rescinded and a similar outcome this time depends, if appeals are lodged, on how the IFAB rules are interpreted.

As the ball had gone by the time Morelos and McKenna came together, the dismissals will be categorised under violent conduct.

Here’s what the IFAB rules say:

“Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made.

“In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible.”

The problem with the IFAB rules is they can be rather ambiguous and open to interpretation.

Was excessive force used by either Morelos or McKenna? And was there brutality involved?

Probably not.

It’s important to note that contact does not have to be made for incidents to be considered violent conduct.

IFAB state “attempted violence must be punished as a sending-off” but again this is where ambiguity creeps in.

Was Morelos guilty of a violent kick? Still images, often misleading in these situations, tell a different story from the footage of the incident and undoubtedly make it look worse.

The striker petulantly drags his leg and it’s arguable there’s no more force or brutality used than in the incident that was overturned on appeal in August.

See also Allan McGregor’s kick on Kristoffer Ajer which wasn’t deemed worthy of retrospective action.

On that basis, whether rightly or wrongly, Rangers may believe they have grounds for an appeal. Of course, what may influence any ruling on this is the rather delicate area of McKenna’s anatomy that Morelos makes contact with.

Steven Gerrard insists Rangers striker Alfredo Morelos shouldn’t change despite fourth red card of season

And in McKenna’s case, too, the kick is petulant but the fact that it’s aimed at Morelos’ face is important.

Here’s what IFAB say:

“There has always been an expectation from football that someone who deliberately hits someone on the head or face should be sent off – striking the head or face is potentially very dangerous so unless there is very little force used, this will be a sending-off (RC) as football must discourage this unacceptable behaviour.”

Ironically, the only incident in this game that wasn’t punished was perhaps the most clear cut red card.

McGregor’s raised studs directed at Lewis Ferguson could have been very, very nasty for the teenager and the Rangers keeper may well get a tap on the shoulder from the SFA in the near future.

McGregor has every right to protect himself when coming for a ball but he’s gone beyond the pale in clearing the traffic in front of him.

Yes, we’ve said still images can paint a distorted picture of what actually happened but this one looks every bit as bad in real-time.

Under the IFAB rules, it certainly appears McGregor may have a case to answer.

“A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play. Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.”

Ferguson left the boot in on McGregor but he was booked by Madden immediately.

Unless the SFA aren’t satisfied the whistler saw the incident clearly then he is unlikely to face further punishment. See Ryan Porteous’ lunge on Lassana Coulibaly and subsequent booking for an example of this.

It’s a conundrum for both clubs to consider and there may well be something in it for them.

The bigger issue is arguably the ambiguity of these laws and what they perhaps let players get away with.

We’ve already seen it this season with the aforementioned incidents involving McGregor with Ajer and Morelos’ first tangle with McKenna.

But, for now, Rangers and Aberdeen will simply be worried about keeping their star men out of the sin bin. McKenna should be the most worried.

A thing of beauty

You were always better at the counting than me!! The principal is the same though. They need to be paid enough not to jeopardise it.

A thing of beauty

I see Alex Rae was giving sky sports the benefit of his wisdom this morning. Morelos should get off but McKenna is in brother. Not unlike the comedy piece above. I turned off before they got to mcgregor. His face should not be allowed on telly before the water shed.

fan-a-tic

Agreed.
Totally disillusioned by Brendan’s stance on referees.
Has as some have suggested the directors issued instructions that he cannot criticize?
Last’s nights challenge was clearly an over the ball attempt to injure that not for the first time a cheat with a whistle refused to administer the laws of the game.
An easy one to call out the ref for.

fan-a-tic

Cheating thing is easy in the best wee country when you wear the proper colours.
Unfortunately Scottish leagues standing in world football is so low that no one gives a flying or pays any attention to the farce.
The sleekit,sniggering hun is alive and thriving in not so modern Scotland.

So the huns have appealed morelos’s red card, guaranteed he will get it rescinded.

Cosy corner bhoy

What I find most interesting about the independent panel is the number on it.As they have to all agree why bother having three when two or even one would be much cheaper,assuming they get paid!
Also,thirteen or six hundred and sixtysix would cover any name others would want to call them!
Another thing is that the result of the debate,assuming they actually have one (though that is debatable in itself if the player is from the Govan Works X1) the result is not arithmetically announced ie 1-2,2-1or in the case of the Govan Works X1 0-3,and Celtic players 3-0, so that fans could know is not announced.
Must be something to do with secret societies ?

Cosy corner bhoy

Looks like the auld yin made an a**e of it again and his comment on the article precedes the lead one!!
Scroll back for thoughts from old codgers!
C

CCB
If you refresh the page it should go to the bottom
HH

Awe Naw

Corroboration. Under Scottish law to perfect that corruption you need three. Two for a majority for any contentious decision. Therby giving the interpretation of independence. The two who decide upon the contentious decision will never need to be so more than twice therefore prefereable to have two panels. The number of lawyers and vicars that end up as top class referees in Scotland is a damning inditement.

Now I don’t see it happening but if the concerted effort of cheating is enough to derail ten in a row then how many bums on seats will we lose bearing in mind those particular decisions will not be executed until after ST renewal time. It was 10k for Ronny and no action was taken by our plc for 12 months.

Awe Naw
Problem is there are so many of the support of the opinion that this league is gonna be the sweetest due to the cheating, the suits are banking on it.
If we fail to win it, things will be interesting as they say.
HH

Awe Naw

I should add the only action taken by us was to act internally. If the same happens to Brendan he will be gone also. This way of thinking allows the PLC an easy life. They don’t have to confront the cheating. Keeps the defiant Fenian’s on board. The increased budget for the new managerial incumbents wages would have to increase impacting on player recruitment but is there a better bang for buck manager out there who can deliver, without the PLC having to take any responsibility whatsoever, an unprecedented in football Triple treble and won’t quibble with the chief executive.

Awe Naw

See post above TET that s fine when we do win under Peters fine margin game. that same crowd are going to be devastated if they are cheated out of a treble treble or ten in a row

Awe Naw
He has gambled for years, CL qualification, Lenny, RD, eventually the balance sheet forced them to employ Brendan.
I’m sort of torn as to what Brendan will do after the season is finished, would he walk if we lose, I don’t have a scooby, if he wins he can with no problems.
The only thing I do know is the club will say nothing re the cheating and the corruption, I only wish I could bet on it, it’s the surest thing ever.

big packy

awe naw and the exiled tim, you bet your bottom dollar the bassas have got us where they want us, move along timmy nothing to see hear, we have had the same thing all our lives, we support celtic so we are taigs papists you name it ,sorry to say this, the country I was born in fuckin hates me because of the school I went to, is that not sad, need to go out for a bit of air to calm my blood pressure,catch you later.hh.

Awe Naw

Let’s play what if ?

What if a high level directive came down the pipeline from the craft to every team in Scotland to help out the huns any way you can. You might be put under pressure to release early your star striker or combative midfielder. If those players played for Kilmarnock and Dundee respectively you might even stupidly tweet about it. You do as your told and pay his wages for January and then let him move like a good member that you are. Unfortunately one of them has appointed an uppity Scottish Fenian who knows more about football than them all combined. He wants to keep his player and informs only the Catholic Northern Irish managers about what he has been told. One of them wants to sign Scott Allan. The uppity Fenian wants to sign Molumbu. He is then rewarded with Molumbu and is prompted to speak out sternly against the cheating using a harmful Celtic decision to target Collum. The manager who wants to sign Scott Allan is given diddley squat and loses some of his best players. He then becomes fully aware that he is being undermined from within and gets too big for his uppity fenian boots and can’t control his emotions. This man is not a trained lawyer. Therefore the craft do what the craft do and attempt to smear him. This Northern Irish Catholic manager has friends in high places therefore the hi jinx are quashed and he is mutually consented.

The Catholic assistant manager of St. Mirren is then given the first job at Parks of Hamilton at the age of 56 after his protestant Northern Irish boss has no qualms about the four penalties.

Former Rangers player Derek Ferguson sounded like the Rangers manager at his post match interview. Has he called out McGregor yet ?

St. Johnstone Northern Irish manager had a glut of maiming opportunities and took them.

What if you watched less television…..

COSYCORNERBHOY

That’s a very good point. The obvious reason for three is to prevent a tied decision,but there is no need for that third vote if a veto is applied. So the only reason the third MIB is there is to rack up the expenses.

Awe Naw
Aye, you do have a habit of hitting the nail smack on the middle of it’s head.
HH

It’s McIness BTW 😉

Awe Naw

Yes McInnes how could I have possibly mixed them up:-)

You are excused as it was Derek Ferguson’s boy that McGregor took out 😉

Awe Naw

When Dave King was cornered by Lady Wolfe he basically had to make an offer for the hun shares by the 15th February.

Depending on how well Sevco are doing will determine how much Dave King will have to shell out. If Sevco are doing well and look a better prospect you will be more likely to hold onto those shares.

If they are out of the cup and are looking at an insurmountable point deficit in the league then you are more likely to sell.

Meaning

This weekends cup tie between Kilmarnock and Rangers is a 3 Million pound game

Of course this doesnt explain the impeteuo behind the recently increased mib frenzy after Lady Wolfes ruling.

Sol Kitts

Jim
Interesting post that got me thinking. Would I miss them if they went under?
The answer to the first question is no, I would not miss them.
I wouldn’t miss having my ears assaulted by hearing them spew their bile from stadia all round Scotland every week. I wouldn’t miss their cheating, their constant manipulation of the laws of the game, their barefaced cheek in appealing even the most obvious red card. I wouldn’t miss their continuation lies, their “going for 55” rubbish, their referee friends, their chairman’s constant contempt for the laws that the rest of us have to abide by.
No Sevco or Rangers in any guise would be a breath of fresh air right through Scottish football. Stripped of all their ugly presence, our game would be a healthier place and I believe it would flourish.

Sol, When they were in the lower leagues I was happy. There was enough interesting games for us to be satisfied.

The only person I spoke to who missed the games was a pub owner who was down financially. The local was mobbed before, during and after derby games. On the other hand he didn’t miss having to stand by the door all day.

But it is what they bring to the game in Scotland. The corruption of the governing body, and the refereeing association. They are besotted. They would be lost without them. Maybe it would just shift from a love of Sevco and hatred of Celtic towards merely a hatred of Celtic. Such is their thinking. Neanderthals.

Packy, Bobby, Mahe, you on?

A thing of beauty

Amen to that sol kitts. Though I have to say I have had some brilliant times in the last few years witnessing some serious hunskelpings.

TET, you on mate?

JIMTHETIM53

Just up,mate. Split shifts on Thursdays,bollox of a day. I think Mahe is still indisposed with the snow over his neck of the woods-if his broadband I’d interrupted,we won’t find out till it’s restored!

Good article today,Jim. Would I miss them? Would Strange Fruit miss The Klan?

Well! Seeing as I have no one to talk to. I will leave you with this. Munchener Philarmoniker playing Tannhauser in the presence of HH Pope Benedict in the vast audience hall of the Vatican.

I was going to ask them to come over to Celtic Park to play at our first CL home group game later this year. But seeing as none of you are interested I wont bother!

Hello Bobby. Hope you are well. Safe driving! You coming up in September?

Just read the body recovered is E. Sala. Thank God for the sake of his family. May he rest in peace, I’m sure he will. I hope they find the pilot’s too for the same reason.

Margaret McGill

Methinks a hun win. 🙂

That’s the plan,mate. Last two weeks,plus first week in October.

New article published.