Watching the Watchers

Sentinel Towers along with todays planned article were thrown into whirlwind mode yesterday by the Plc’s release of their crush report .
On hump day afternoon seemed strange but there she was eventually for cyberspace to pick over .
Firstly I will flat out admit that what you may read will by no means be a Pulitzer Prize winner as I wasnt there and have never actually been in a crush , and when it comes to directions and maps I am the very very last person you want to talk to. My trusty Gps seldom leaves my side.
So as it is just like yourselves I await with baited breath those who were there and are familiar with the area to fully digest the report and then give us their frank assessment .

However even an ignoramus like myself seen issues within that report.
Take this for instance ,,
“ This was because reduced ‘Sunday service’ schedules operate, as standard, on bus and train networks serving the regional areas around the stadium. It has been identified that, on average, the overall reduction in service capacity, on both bus and train services, on Sunday mornings is approximately 50% “
Grab a sports fan anywhere and tell him the flagship games of the season will be at a time that fans consider inconvenient and there is next to none facilities available at that time and watch him struggle to grasp it .
Even if we were to accept it might be best to play that game when theres not much drink available , why not coordinate with the department of transport and GCC to run extra buses on the day ? In fact the minister for transport should draft it in as mandatory especially after these crush scenes.
At the very least theres some money to be made catering to a large crowd in terms of restaurants and bars.
Its typical of Scottish footie though and another reason why I call it the bent farce.
The crush is an example of the farce and the month after Rangers died “ the Rangers “ get their titles just to prove the bent bit for anyone wondering .
Its another example of fans being treated poorly is lack of infrastructure on the biggest matchdays.

“ Pre-match planning processes were extensive, and positive collaboration existed between partner agencies throughout all stages of planning and delivery. This included the hosting of joint-agency planning meetings and site inspections/recces. These practices are considered to have been positive and should be continued for future fixtures. “
You gotta be kidding me here.
“ We had it all worked out on paper , honestly. And we did a good job and will do so again ! “ basically ffs . I mean if it wasnt soo serious I would laugh at the gallus or sheer stupidity or mixture of both coming from this shower. Incredible that phrase was okayed.

“It is also the opinion of Fairhurst that the turnstile data identifies that the crowd congestion incident was not caused by the late arrival of supporters to the stadium. “
No shit Sherlock !

“ The density of home supporters’ peak arrival flows in the North Stand underpass pre-match phase, as a result of a combination of the external segregation arrangements during the peak arrivals flows for home supporters and the constrained arrivals window, was greater than had been experienced at previous Celtic v Rangers fixtures..”
So again it wasn’t the fans fault ,, we all know this ffs .

“ significant congestion built up very quickly in the underpass and at the North West approach to it and it was necessary for the pre-established contingency plan to be activated by the Celtic Safety Officer. “
This statement seems to suggest the Celtic Safety Officer has the final say . or perhaps does in the event of an emergency , in the area outwith the stadium ie the undpass and approach ways not within the actual stadium . This goes against the rules that fan activities outwith the stadium are not the clubs fault or at least do not fall under their jurisdiction.
Seems theres a major grey zone in regards to just what exactly the relationship is between a club and its fans outwith the actual stadium .
Stadium imprint can be a pretty broad phrase and if thats going to be brought up then specific boundaries should be drawn for clarity sake.

“ It is the opinion of Fairhurst that, for the future, opportunities exist to improve match-day records and to improve control measures to manage the movement of supporters through the underpass and to identify and manage crowd congestion build-up. “
Thank F%#k for that then !

“ These dynamic decisions, made by those who were in command and using their detailed knowledge of the stadium environs and management arrangements that were in place that day, are recognised as being particularly important factors in achieving an efficient resolution to the incident. These intervention actions included switching turnstiles to manual over-ride and the redeployment of Stewards in order to remove physical segregation barriers and turnstile queue lanes formed of barriers. These actions would not have been obvious to those supporters who were involved in the congestion and were identified by Fairhurst as being critical to the successful and efficient management of the overall incident. “
They being the Match Commander and Celtic Safety Officer . This is one hell of a pat on the back in essence ,, saying we saved the day.
I await the verdict on this one from those involved.

“ In particular, engagement by Stewards and Police Officers with supporters in the early stages of dealing with the incident could have been more effective. “
Thats a very mild scolding but in essence its huge imo. The “ in particular “ will not have been missed as a very conscious effort to bear weight , however lofty the wording .
Its probably about as hard as they could go , and they did. Please note that.

And then we see the end of the report with many recommendations , some notables include
“ Consider benefits of recording all audio communications on two-way radio networks. “
“Consider evaluating the audibility of the Public Address system against background noise generated by dense crowd build-up in the enclosed underpass space.”
“ Ensure media responses to all situations, including any emergency/contingency situations are agreed jointly by stakeholders (as far as is possible) prior to release. “
To sum up nothing is recorded , the crowd couldnt hear your microphones ffs , and no message goes out without being on song .
The professionals are here , relax.

Once again I cant wait for others take of this malarkey but one things for sure .
Its just another example of life in the bent never boring Sphell !

Writers needed ,, great conditions , honestly.
sentinelcelts@gmail.com

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MAHE

Looks to me like there’s a whole lot of nothing in this report. Very little explanation of what went wrong and why,and as a result,very little attempt to resolve problems which,in the eyes of the report anyway,didn’t exist.

Same old same old “Move along,Timmy-nothing to see here!”

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

Still,to brighten up my day,how’s this for a cracker.

Seems that Ryan Kent,on loan from Liverpool,has been having a great season. So much so that if the huns wanna sign him they’ll have to cough up £10m.

You would need a heart of stone,etc…

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

MONTI

Good lad. I’ll post the details here nearer the date. I’ll also text BGBHOY the details,he can forward you my mobile number.

See ya!

big packy

HI MAHE, its a load of old tripe, it is a move along timmy report nothing new there, but then again what did you expect from the sons of William,, yes the best wee bigoted country in the whole universe, but oh wait a minute, I might have forgotten norn Ireland probably a close second, we need to get off our backsides and start hitting back or we will always be at the back of the bus.FTSFA.hh.

Morning Big Packy, sounds like you are getting fired up for Sunday! 🙂

Mike

The date, the day and the timing of the games is down to the T.V. companies and the ruling bodies. The safety of the fans is down to the police, especially the match commander, they have the final say. That is why Duckenfield is standing trial currently for Hillsborough. (remember the 96). The “Fairhurst Report” commissioned by the club, for the club, paid for by the club, would have to discuss its findings with the club before it was published. It was thorough and they spoke to many of the supporters affected, these supporters were extremely lucky that they survived what could have been another Hillsborough. I just hope that lessons have been learned. Scottish football walks a tightrope of safety, with stewards and police numbers being decreased to save money, plastic pitch’s, bent referee’s and ruling bodies not fit to govern. Can it survive? with some clubs close together, it might if we get rid of the dinosaurs in charge, till then it will be “Chester, I’m a coming Marshall Dillon”, limping along…

big packy

morning jim hope you are well, just don’t like being cheated, by the way jim if your still interested in the photo of the dugs, ill e-mail it to bobby or mahe.hh.

Mike, I see Keith Jackson is saying McLeish will be gone in the next 24 hours. That’s one idiot away from Hampden. He should never have got the job in the first place. The corruption at Hampden is staggering. If any of them had an ounce of honour they would fall on their swords for a multitude of sins.

What annoys me even more is the lack of will by the member clubs to clear them out.

Monti

Bobby,
Nice one m8!
How is there no a reply bit next to a posters comment?
Come on tae fuck lads, that wouldn’t happen on ETims.

Packy, that would be grand.

big packy

no problem jim.

Mike

Jim, It was McLeish’s best friend McRae that got him the job, despite him being out of football for two years. That in essence is the SFA with Petrie waiting in the wings until June ready to take over, more of the same, the old pals act. We have the “donkey” Doncaster leading the SPFL with his “same club” fearytales. Until all the lies and the cheating are cleansed by those at the top of Scottish football, it will remain what it is, a conflicted sport, it needs to be totally cleansed mate, until then….we live in hope.

I see the sevco fans are complaining about having to enter Parkhead 1 hour before kick off. Believe me, if the shoe was on the other foot I would complain too. An hour sitting in Ibrox? No thanks, I wouldn’t go. However the main point is this has all been caused by themselves. If they hadn’t urged their board to massively reduce the amount of Celtic fans at Ibrox this would never have happened. So get it up them!

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

MONTI 842

The Reply Box Option was available for a while but the consensus amongst the posters was for a straightforward chronological order. Only problem is,for some reason we can’t shift the Comment Box to the bottom of the page!

Luddites R Us…

Bobby, Monti, The reply function was not all bad, there was a good side to it. But I like to keep up with all the new posts. When a lot of them were replies then I was getting repetitive strain syndrome scrolling up and down the page to find them. It was especially bad when we got to 100+ posts. Incidentally it used to annoy me on Etims as well. It is easy to make reference to an earlier post at the top of your post.
Sorted! 🙂

fan-a-tic

Celtic plc and the Police should have saved time and money by just issuing a statement the day after saying, Who gives a F#@K it was only Timmy it happened too?

MattyBhoy

Another whitewash report – and what happens when the same thing occurs again this weekend? There’s no proper accountability and it is utterly infuriating.

Fool Time Whistle

Morning all,

I wasn’t at the match that Fairhurst report on, but I have a few points to mention for clarity.

Mahe
The club are responsible for fan safety inside AND outside the stadium – under the Safety at Sports Grounds legislation.
The stadium environs/footprint are well defined by the club & approved by the Safety Team.
If the land is club owned then the club have responsibility.
If the land is public then the Police have responsibility.
The status of that street changed when the North Stand was built over the top of it.
The report was commissioned & paid for by the club expressly because they are responsible & are/were at fault.

The report itself is drafted with several aims in mind, and being understood & approved by fans is not one of them.
Fairhurst want to justify their fat fee.
The club want to have a report to wave around that appears a comprehensive assessemnt – 4 pages wouldn’t cut it.
Both the club & Fairhusrt have already presented this to the Safety Team run by Glasgow City Council who will have given their approval or comments in an earlier draft, just so that they all delegates there especially Police & Club agreed on the language & any blame.
The report is in legalese which means that simple things are said in the manner a professional would describe it in court because this report is fundamentally an exercise in CYA – cover your arse – for the club, the Police & the Safety Team.
In that sense those who deingrate as a whitewash are only partially right.

The report addresses how the incident was inevitable because of the Safety Team’s own approved plan.
It also says that communication between Stewards & Police & the crowd in the Public was not great.

Their plan before the match sucked & their training, prepaprtion before & communication during it sucked.
All of this was clear to most of those whowere there or read reports afterwards.

Mike

The safety of the Police is definitely NOT down to the police. Clubs are completely responsible for fan safety in and around stadia.
The police have a role for crime issues but the club have primacy for safety. The Club Safety Officer is in charge during the event, assisted by the Match Commander. Before the Taylor Report’s findings on Hillsborough were made law by Westminster, confusion over roles & primacy at grounds led to chaos – and Duckenfield’s case is a testament to that. The Safety at Sports Grounds legislation scrapped any previous protocols and forced all clubs to comply.

As you say the club paid for this report – because they are entirely responsible. We all know that Celtic would not pay for anything unless there was a legal or business case for doing so. The club are the client so you’re right- they’d see it beforehand, but much more than that they would have input into the wording “for clarity”. The Safety Team would have a draft of the report presented to them so that they could all assess the impact on their position and again, “for clarity” make suggestions for the final report.

Being on message is fundamental to the Safety Team & their delegates, so this means that repports often appear sanitized & bland.
The wording doesn’t help comprehension.

HH

“The Record also reports that a “deeply-troubling episode” in the lead-up to Sunday’s win over the world’s lowest-ranked national team convinced Maxwell that McLeish’s health was at risk from the “ferocious intensity” of the job.” (The Scotsman)

I wonder what the ‘deeply-troubling episode’ was?

The Gombeen Man

So the soap opera continues,

Thankfully there appears to have been no serious injuries as a result of the crush prior to the last Sevco game at Celtic Park.

For me, there needs to be a step up in the professionalism of the whole planning process. No more playing politics with planning about parking. No more failures about public transport. No more apparently arbitrary decisions about road closures, closed gates, especially in the unique environment of the Sevco game.

We all know it isn’t easy but Scottish football and the safety of supporters appears to be run in a manner that would put the Keystone Cops to shame.

CYA reports are notoriously LOB but if we don’t up our game; onfield mediocrity will continue to be exacerbated by offield shenanigans.

—————————————————————————-

Watching the wriggling by the planters of stories in the Brendan Rodgers affair doesn’t do anything to improve my confidence in the integrity of information coming out of Celtic.

The methodology of the club CEO using a couple of Blogs which have very obvious links to the PLC as a means to defame an individual’s character is distasteful. It’s the genre of Level 5.

All it has accomplished is cast further doubt on the operations at Board level. The suspicion is that there is a clique of confidants of Peter Lawwell that are attempting to manipulate the view of the support by doing a ‘Jabba’.

On the other channel this morning I read a link to a blog by a well known blogger written about Brendan Rodgers. It’s poor stuff and refers to a meeting between Peter Lawwell.

All that’s happened as a result of the tone, gossip and lack of professionalism on show is damage to reputations, damage to Celtic and unnecessary distress to supporters.

Celtic need to up their game on many fronts.

HH

Bada Bing

When Neil’s team at Hibs were flying, it was because Barker and Boyle were 1 on 1 with opposing full backs, we need to create this on Sunday, with Sinclair, Forrest and Burke,their FBs are hopeless defenders.

mahe

Mattybhoy 11.38
I’m of the opinion we need a strong supporters orgs or group. The current ones don’t seem very strong do they? This tells me they need new leaders or just ripped up and started again.
They should be threatening the league and Plc to sort its shit out.
Im a want something done do it yourself type of fella and if it things don’t improve on that front expect action.
Sick of effing waiting and diplomacy. Action time if you ask me.
The news Petrie stood unopposed is a kick in the teeth to everyone that wants a normal game. Shameful actually.
The blogs should have put pressure on this one.
At least we know there’s some people who won’t be swayed and will try to do what’s right and there’s blogs that will not be influenced.
Good to see you on pal.
Hail Hail

Bada Bing

Mahe- if Maxwell wants to modernise the SFA,and be a leader with any purpose in this country, he needs to grow a pair,and empty MacRae ,and Chief Blazer in Waiting ,the self serving Petrie.He has the ideal reason now when McLeish gets bagged,they appointed him

mahe

Bada , Max well has already shown he’s part of the problem me thinks. We were given the impression he was supposed to be a good guy .
Yeah right.
I’m seriously thinking it all needs ripped up and started again. It might be fubared.
Hail Hail

Bada Bing

http://www.celticfc.net/news/15931

Information for Sunday

Bada Bing

http://www.celticfc.net/news/15934

Finance on season tickets in doubt….

mahe

JimtheTim53,,,
How was the pub yesterday partner?
You mght be interested in this story about turning off the drink in central Oz
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-27/violence-spiked-in-outback-town-after-cyclone-watch,-police-say/10943464

mahe

I reckon the deeply troubling episode was ( and I’m sorry to say it ) drink related.
Eck doesn’t look good at all.
The shakes or something or else he was hitting very very early or some sort.
It must have been bad to make it out to the masses.
Hail Hail

The Gombeen Man

The Zebra finance deal hitting the skids will come as a challenge. Many of the young team used them.
Apparently their named on the renewal packs online.

HH

Fool Time Whistle

The Gombeen Man

I couldn’t agree more that Celtic need to up their game around the stadium.
There’s a whiff of complacency & tokenism about much of what Celtic do regarding fans support & safety.
There is an absence of any integrated, joined up thinking in so much of what goes on.
THE key role fro Celtic regarding safety is, remarkably, their own Safety Officer, but politics & hierarchy dictate that such a person not be someone of weight & influence. Thus, the person who holds this role is in the same position as the SFA Compliance Officer:
they have all of the responsibility and none of the control.

Anyone familiar with Celtic Park on matchdays knew that the new “plan” for access/egress for Celtic fans last September was complete nonsense & would only lead to problems. It seems that no one from the club voiced those concerns strenuously enough and some new Police Supt’s brainwave was nodded through the Safety Team.
Having installed a high risk plan when their legal responsibility is to minimise risk, the same panel failed to recognize the increased displacement risks that automatically would follow. Again, anyone familiar with the stadium would know that if you insist on doig (A) then you have to allow for (B). That didn’t happen, and was compounded by complacent or poorly trained & briefed stewards & police. The dye was cast & a near tragedy occurred.

This whole saga is nothing more than a complete breakdown of the function of the Safety Team & is symptomatic of what you referred to as people “playing politics”.

That these dangerously inept decisions were made at the same time as a Council driven squeeze on parking around the stadium AND a 50% reduction on public transport moves the whole thing beyond farce & into targedy.

This is the same council that Chairs, runs & organizes the Safety Team for Celtic Park. So we can see that it is not just inter-agency communication & respect that is broken but also what transpires within these same organisations.

Police Scotland, Glasgow City Council AND Celtic FC are all responsible for the shambles last September. The dysfunction is still there so I have zero confidence that they will even accept resonsibility. Without accepting that there can be no real prospect that things will improve.

HH

Mike

Fool Time Whistle: I read the Football Stadium Officers Assoc. Scotland. A non statutory advisory document , attributed to Lord Wheatley in 1997 and it read: “Not withstanding an assertion made by Lord Justice Taylor into the Hillsborough Disaster “that the ultimate control of any match must be that of the match commander”. I believed therefore that Police Scotland would be the body responsible for fan safety. But you are correct in that, the club’s safety officer is the person responsible for safety management and holds overall control. (stands in corner sucking his thumb). Chief Superintendent Brian McInulty said: “We work closely with Celtic to ensure the safety of all fans. But its interesting to note that one club has gained a safety report without having had any safety inspections. The one name that never seems to be mentioned is The Lying King and his decision to reduce the Celtic supporters seat allocation at Govan, his pandering to the gullible’s kicked off this dire episode. If anything positive can be gleaned from all of this near tragedy, it is that those caught sleepwalking at the helm of the club, better wake up and fast.

Mahe, Tues. afternoon in the local was OK but nothing great, I think I spooked it by boasting about it.

I thought that might have been the case with Eck. there has been some gossip going around that that is his problem. I won’t hold that against him but I will always disagree that he should have got the job. An EBT recipient, walked out on the job previously, an over rated manager and especially getting the position through the old boys network. If McRae knows him so well, surely he would realise he had a problem? Putting him in a high pressure environment would do him no favours at all. Although maybe he has earned enough to pay off HMRC.

Margaret McGill

King Midas. Everything he touched turned to gold. Greek version.
King Wideass. Everything he touched turned to shit. Scottish/SFA version.

Margaret McGill

That Fairhurst report in full. See we urny Ibrox and we’ll do our best next time. Next.
That Zebra report in full: One lion zebra report you’ve seen a maul.

Mike in Toronto

BMCUWP

Hot Smoked was asking again about getting you back on that other site. I said that you cant go anywhere unless he negotiates a transfer fee with Mahe (or maybe a cash and poster deal)… and of course, you will want a fairly decent signing bonus.

Now … about my retainer….

🙂

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

MIKEINTORONTO

HOTSMOKED just needs to go into his CQN account settings and temporarily alter his moniker to mine.

It would be funny to see it appearing on there again-well,I would laugh,but I suspect some would suffer a dose of the vapours…

big packy

BOBBY id like to send you a pic of the dugs to your e-mail, for jim the tim as I have not got his e-mail address, if its not convenient ill ask mahe.let me know’hh.

Fool Time Whistle

Fool Time Whistle: I read the Football Stadium Officers Assoc. Scotland. A non statutory advisory document , attributed to Lord Wheatley in 1997 and it read: “Not withstanding an assertion made by Lord Justice Taylor into the Hillsborough Disaster “that the ultimate control of any match must be that of the match commander”. I believed therefore that Police Scotland would be the body responsible for fan safety. But you are correct in that, the club’s safety officer is the person responsible for safety management and holds overall control. (stands in corner sucking his thumb). Chief Superintendent Brian McInulty said: “We work closely with Celtic to ensure the safety of all fans. But its interesting to note that one club has gained a safety report without having had any safety inspections. The one name that never seems to be mentioned is The Lying King and his decision to reduce the Celtic supporters seat allocation at Govan, his pandering to the gullible’s kicked off this dire episode. If anything positive can be gleaned from all of this near tragedy, it is that those caught sleepwalking at the helm of the club, better wake up and fast.
……………………………………..

Mike

Sorry if I seemed overly adamant with that point.

That distinction on responsibility hinges on the words “ultimate control” & how he & we define that. I haven’t read Lord Wheatley’s comments, but I understand what he means.

The 2016 cup final “rammy” game was by the end firmly in the ultimate control of the police. The situation had moved beyond the capabilities of the stadium owners to maintain the safety of fans. The fact that the owners at that fixture were a mix between Queens Park & the SFA adds a delicious twist to it. The SFA in effect proved themselves incapable of fulfulling their statutory responsibility to fans safety. I can only hope that it spoiled that post match silver service dinner.

So, in a normal match, even one where there are pretty serious crowd issues, the club via the Safety Officer & stewards have responsibility for fan safety. Full scale field invasions and close quarter on field fighting between rival fans leads to a very short exchange between the Safety Officer and the Match Commander so that control passes from the club to the Police.

For there to be such a change of control the plan for the match has gone badly wrong, even though there is always a contingency fall back position. Matches are usallly categorized as either A, B or C in ascending order of anticipated problems. A=least trouble & C=most trouble. There’s even a C+ which is where local derbies end up.

For “ultimate” in this context, it’s a bit like the Fire Brigade showing up at a small cinema fire. The management are responsible & will try to put the fire out, but if they can’t/don’t the Fire Brigade take over control from them.

As for that other ground, nothing would surprise me.

Hope you are well.
HH

Mike in Toronto

BMCUWP

Had not thought about doing that … but I could have some fun with it….

fan-a-tic

MAHE
(I’m of the opinion we need a strong supporters orgs or group.)
There’s to much self interest for any supporter’s group to represent the Celtic fan’s.
Some of the blogs clearly demonstrate this.
The camaraderie of the old supporters buses did not translate to the organizations.
Power is retained with divide and conquer.Some are willing pawns in this all for self fulfillment.

The Gombeen Man

Fool Time Whistle,

Thanks for your reply earlier.

Who knows whether it’s error or judgement but the timing of the release of the report seems to have led to it being overlooked? The report has failed to secure top spot on the other channel today. Which is a concern given it’s apparent proximity to the Plc CEO.

To be fair the direction to the followers of Sevco to be at the stadium by 11am and the issue of the statement by Celtic including maps of the vicinity of the stadium are positive developments.

Thankfully a tragedy was averted that day but one can only imagine what the repercussions would have been if things had deteriorated further.

Those in control of the safety of the public at the ground got lucky that day (thankfully).We can only hope that the relevant agencies at all of our major venues get their act together.

There is a attitude in what is populary termed ‘The Old Firm’. By Old Firm, I have in mind individuals who hold positions of influence within football and society but seem to be incapable of unbiased thinking. They are dominated by immature adversarial, black and white thinking, which is detrimental to society and Scottish football.

There seems to be no cooperation, no honesty at the clubs, the administrators, or even within statutory bodies. This lazy culture creates an environment where failings are concealed. These failings fester and seem to affect anyone who comes into contact with the senior game.

The prevailing culture of cover ups, misdirection, bias and incompetence seems to flourish, while the product on the pitch, the experience and safety of supporters diminishes.

It’s been my view for months that there is a direct link to the decline in the national game and the competence of those charged with running it.

Simple but difficult issues have been fudged and our club’s representatives have failed to show any appetite for reform or leadership.

Given the lack of transparency at Celtic Plc and the subterfuge of their munchkins, it is difficult to trust anything one reads or hears from the Plc.

The ongoing fiascos at Transfer Windows, Res 12, Executive bonuses and Project Scapegoat Brendan Rodgers highlight the tip of the iceberg.

HH

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MIKEINTORONTO

Take your time,old bean.i wish now I’d mailed you that Machiavellian thought instead of posting it!!!

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