The (Bonus) King Makers
Today’s article is mainly by JIMTHETIM53. I’ve borrowed some information re shareholding from a post by CORKCELT-which should not be taken as meaning that he approves of the rest of the content-with additional thoughts of my own at the end.
BMCUWP was posting recently about the massive salary and bonus paid to Peter Lawwell. Who decides this? Are the directors involved wary of him? Or even cowed by him,so to speak. I was thinking about who the directors are on the remuneration committee.
The Remuneration Committee is chaired by Tom Allison. The other members are Brian Wilson and Ian Bankier.
The Remuneration Committee determines the terms of engagement and remuneration of the Company’s executive Directors, Company Secretary and certain senior executives, on behalf of the Board. The Committee also monitors the Company’s executive share option scheme and implementation of other executive and employee incentive schemes.
A detailed report is included within the Annual Report.
All of the above are Non Exectutive directors. In other words they take nothing to do with the day to day running of the business. They do not report to Peter Lawwell. In fact it is their responsibility to keep an eye on him! To make sure the operational directors and senior managers are following the strategy set out by the board and that the business integrity is maintained.
However… We also have Dermott Desmond as an non exec director,but is the largest shareholder. It would be naïve to think that he doesn’t pull a few strings. With the % shareholding he has, he could call a general meeting and with an unspoken of concert party could get rid of anyone.
It would seem that Companies House is aware of the possibility of board room bullying:
In “The Companies Act 2006: Directors Duties Guidance
we read “Many cases of corporate mismanagement have arisen because directors have allowed themselves to be side-lined by one or more dominant ﬁgures on a board. Such ﬁgures can be powerful personalities and may seek to prevent otherwise independent directors from making necessary enquiries into the company’s affairs. It is essential to the proper functioning of a board that all directors should be encouraged to make enquiry. In a large company the Chair of the board has a particular role to play in fostering the correct ethos.”
So there you have it. Why PL is one of the best paid CEOs in British football. Who’s going to stand up to DD & PL? Apparently we are not the only firm with weak Non Executive Directors.
In addition,as CORKCELT pointed out yesterday,it would now be very difficult indeed for the smaller shareholders to influence any board decisions. While Dermot Desmond has always been the major shareholder since we waved goodbye to Fergus,it seems the small shareholders,the typical fan who bought into the club during the original share offer,has been sidelined.
“Re Celtic Shareholders. Desmond holds holds 34.9 & an Investment House Lindsell Train Ltd hold 17,4 % so between these 2 there is a majority of 52,3%..
Another 3 Shareholder Christopher Trainer, James Keane &Thomas Allison between their individual holdings account for a further 20.2%.
So 5 shareholders hold 72.5% of the Company.”
My own thoughts on the make-up of the board (writes BMCUWP) is that it is in a comfort zone,with everyone too familiar with everyone else. It is generally accepted that a CEO has a shelf life of around 5 years. It seems that PL may have as many shelf lives as a cat. Also,the non-executive directors have by and large been in situ for too long-are they still looking under the bonnet of the vehicle,or are they content to have it driven for them,regardless of where it is going? On top of that,I would challenge their very independence-though not in all cases-because of their past associations with our CEO.
Now,the chairman is supposed to lead the board. As Dermot Desmond is a rare visitor,I venture the suggestion that the board is actually being led by the very CEO who is meant to answer to them. That,by the way,is a CEO who operates to his own design,and without recourse to a Chief Operating Officer.
Overall,it looks like we have a dysfunctional board which is operating on its own whims,and with a lack of independent oversight or balance. And there’s nothing we can do about it,because we no longer have the share ownership.
Grateful thanks to JIMTHETIM53 for the gist of the article,and to CORKCELT for the information on current shareholdings. If you would like to write the Article of the Day,mail it to Mahe
Please note that the information on shareholdings was from an earlier post by CORKCELT. It is for information purposes only and does not imply any other input to,nor agreement with,the content of the rest of the article. It would though have been wrong to have used the information without accrediting the source.
About three months ago Ralph on E-Tims did an article on Lindsell- Train. This Fund invests in companies for long term growth, they specialise in football clubs like Manchester United, Juventus and Celtic. They have a terrific reputation, highlighted recently with all the dissatisfaction over the former golden boy of share investment Woodford. The point is that they are in it for the long term, they are not fly by nights. Lindsell- Train know a good investment when they see it, Juventus are going through new investment, Celtic show steady growth, investors recognised that when the Huns died Celtic had a clear pathway into the C.L. qualifiers and the Celtic shares increased virtually overnight. It is said that Celtic shares could increase even further if we were able to tap into the millions of overseas Celtic supporters, I believe that, that is where they identify potential serious growth.
But do not lessen the potential disruption that the small shareholders could bring to the table. They have enough influence to, if they so wish, campaign against the board, effect bhoycots, lead a disruption to merchandising, because they are Celtic supporters firstly and shareholders because they are supporters. If they decide to unite together they would be a formidable force, there would be no Celtic without the support. I sense that Auldheid and his merry men have something in mind for this years AGM, if not then they have something more disruptive in mind, if so, they would have many, many backers.
Tread warily if you get the supports back up, after all they did it before, they could do it again, shareholders or not.
Non Executive Directors. (NEDS)
Should be providing independent oversight and constructive challenge to the executive directors.
Non-executive directors should take responsibility for monitoring the performance of executive management, especially with regard to the progress made towards achieving the determined company strategy and objectives. They have a prime role in appointing, and where necessary removing, executive directors and in succession planning.
Aye? Determined company strategy and objectives? What is the company strategy and objectives? If only we knew.
With the company ownership carved up the way it is re % share distribution, there’s nothing that will bring about the changes in performance we crave other than arresting the cash input. It’s extremely unlikely that will happen for reasons we’ve done to death on here.
Emotional attachment that still outweighs our frustration levels.
I have quite a significant number of shares held in Lindsell train. They are outperforming the market, or certainly have been since I added them to my portfolio.
The stock markets went through a tough period fairly recently. All sorts of reasons were being thrown up for the decline.
I monitor the trends very closely. Historically the market trends are very consistent. I froze my assets just prior to the decline and I couldn’t have timed it any better. I managed to avoid heavy ( ish) losses.
When I moved back in again, I rebalanced my portfolio and increased the holding in Lindsell train . It’s proved a vg move so far. Over 50% gain
However, in their latest report to shareholders , Michael Lindsell is warning that the fund price could take a mighty hit just shortly.
They’ve just paid one of their directors a bonus in the back of the aforementioned hike in performance. £8.2m!!
Soon be catching up with Peter?
I think Lindsell Train are unlikely to rock the boat or be disruptive. Therefore their shares will be neutral or in favour of the current set-up. Yes,smaller investors can make waves,but that tends to be via an initial holding of,say,5% and then publicly questioning the direction of the company in question.
That would hopefully lead to institutional shareholders following,and that has happened a number of times recently.
Like you,I reckon AULDHEID &Co are unlikely to have run out of ideas…
I know. Worse than the Politburo.
I wonder what happened to them? Retired to their luxurious dachas,I suppose.
Even though I have a relatively small shareholding (no sniggering at the back…), I intensely dislike the business model at the club. When Fergus took over the club and transformed the way it was run, he persuaded tens of thousands of supporters to join him as he promised that every penny profit would be re-invested into making the team as good as it could possibly be. Consequently, thousands bought into this idea in terms of buying shares, season tickets and merchandise.
I am not quite sure when things changed but clearly they did. The first team is no longer the number one priority at the club which is now run on classic capitalist terms. The interests of the shareholders (especially the major investors) are paramount and the football operation is expected to generate income for the PLC in much the same way as the commercial department is. If the team wins a few trophies a long the way then that’s an added bonus but first and foremost, it’s all about the bottom line which is all unreconstructed capitalists like Dermot Desmond care about. That’s why Peter Lawwell acts as he does. He is there to do his master’s bidding and as long he he does then he will be rewarded way beyond his real worth to the club.
Personally, I’d rather see the club run along the same lines as Barcelona which is a members run organisation. Fan led, football co-operatives are the way forward otherwise the game will eat itself. Till this happens, I’m oot.
If I were a major shareholder in Celtic, I would be overjoyed at the work of all directors, executives included.
One only has to look at the accounts and the type of shareholder willing to invest, to realise that this is one of the best-run football clubs in the world. Of course, it’s run on capitalist ideas, that’s what has been happening since the 1880’s!
Now, if only the football dept……por cierto.
Twisty well done you. 😉 <9
Meanwhile over in Govan the forty one time convicted criminal is picking the pockets of the gullible's, he is praying on their love of their club to fleece them badly, hell mend them.
It was said in years past that the difference in the top of a company compared to the least well paid was around 25% nowadays the gap is in hundreds of percent, that is why the biggest funds are bringing their guns to bear on the chairmen of big companies, trying to effect change.
When the Huns was liquidated the Hun support had the opportunity to try to bring in a CVA but they chose to ignore them and walk away. I LOL when King said that they might pay them back and rescue the dead club. The Hearts support chose another route, they chose to endorse fan ownership and managed to get a CVA despite Romanov's massive debts. So well done to the Hearts support who proved there love for their club and still work tirelessly to bring in more funds.
The Celtic support show their love of our club weekly doing far to many good things for me to highlight, if they felt strongly enough about any subject then they would not hesitate to take the required actions, its just getting them motivated, but we have to bear in mind that not all of the support feel as we do about the board, many are apparently happy at where we are and how the club is run. Me, I want integrity in Scottish football, I want an open and an honest game, I want those guilty of bringing it into disrepute to be identified and have to answer for their actions. So I will back Res.12 as much as I can and thank them all for all their hard work.
Fixtures are out:
First fixture of the new season is St Johnstone at CP. First game against the Klan is in August at the WilliamDome.
If I had ever completed part 3 of my posts a week or so ago it would have revolved around Celtic being a Co-operative. One member one vote. Imagine Dermott Desmond only having one vote! Lindsell Train one vote. Imagine Auldheid & co. having one vote each! How different would Celtic be? Taking the SFA to task. Having a strategy. Having a Director of football. Planning ahead. Being interested on football results etc. Listening to fans. And still run at a profit.
One can but dream.
Does anyone know what is happening re the proposed Parking Zone around CP por cierto?
That’s just it though eh? The football department. Many are very happy with it. 8 in a row and treble treble. It would seem incredulous to many that a significant number of us are not happy with the footballing side of things.
It’s the unfulfilled potential that frustrates us. We’re looking at one of the biggest supports in European football. One of the biggest stadiums. History of great European achievement.
I’m not expecting us to ever be CL winners, finalists, or even top 8 in my lifetime. Money and restructuring of the CL format has seen to that.
I do feel however that we are still capable of being a top 32 and occasionally top 16 side.
The players to achieve that have passed through our hands. VVD , Wanyama etc.
I understand that when they move on they move on. It’s the reinvestment strategy that’s killing us. Selling the family silver for top dollar and buying crap with the proceeds leads to one thing. You end up with a house full of crap.
Of course the fact that the only club capable of mounting a challenge died, left Lawell in a fortunate position . He could get away with just doing enough to stay in front without investing heavily.
The treble treble is magnificent in respect of adding to our history. It will not be repeated in my opinion. Not in my lifetime. I should therefore go to my grave content with at least that aspect of my life. It just isn’t giving me the sense of fulfilment it should.
People laughed at Dave King when he commented that Celtic were like a house of cards that could come tumbling down at the first evidence of a decent challenge. Well it may well be he’s about to be proven correct. If they get off to a flier, the atmosphere at CP could be about to turn volatile.
This next 6 months leading up to Christmas will be seismic . If we are not in Europe, that alone won’t be the catalyst . If we are out of Europe but on course for 9, there’ll barely be a tremor.
If we are behind in the league, having lost at Ibrox? Oh you’ll hear the thunder then ok.
It’s all about the Rangers. Therein lies the fundamental reason we continue to freefall from European glory.
What we need is an activist agitator,which is the expression I was trying to think of in my earlier reply to MIKE!
I’ll agree with you on OMOV.
Get Prescott in and tell him to mobilise the troops behind One Member,One Vote. Down with Block Voting!
My concern is more immediate,mate. As I said at the bottom of Wednesday’s article…
“Our European Adventure took its first steps yesterday with the draw for the first round of qualifiers. FK Sarajevo,and probably the most difficult of the opponents in our section of the draw. Formerly owned by Vincent Tan of Cardiff City,he poured millions into the club before handing over to a Vietnamese investment company. We shouldn’t take them lightly.”
Please note-and I’m sure it wasn’t lost on you anyway!-that this club have had two recent owners prepared to back the football operation of their club. They’re no mugs,for sure,and we could certainly have had easier opponents.
Most definitely a concern. I alluded to it on here yesterday.
Whilst a failure to qualify would be catastrophic in the eyes of some of us, there are many who just won’t care enough.
If we do fail, what will our squad look like at the end of the transfer window?
Let’s see what the next 2 weeks bring.
I know we live in a capitalist world. Even China is now realising that. But there is still room for Co-ops. The Co-op movement in Britain is about 150 years old. It has had it’s ups and downs. Especially the local Co-ops who were run by well intentioned amateurs. They were eventually bailed out and taken over by the CWS. Even so, the Co-op started of by selling unadulterated foodstuffs, free of saw dust to bulk out. The first to stop those gasses harmful to the environment in their aerosols. The first to embrace Fairtrade. When I get a receipt it tells me how much has went into my share account and how much to local good causes.
If ever a business cries out to be a co-operative it is Celtic. Think of Brother Walfrid.
Ralph isn’t pulling any punches today either.
We start with St Johnstone at home then Motherwell away.
Then Hearts home , Huns away, Hamilton away then Killie home
Only date available for a hoot when Mahe and I are both able to make it is 21 September. And it’s been widely flagged here and elsewhere.
Home match v Killie. Definite 3pm kick off on the day unless we are in the EL in which case it will be moved to the Sunday.
I’d rather have difficulties with 21/9 than miss out on the CL.
First CL qualifier at CP is free to all season ticket holders.
Twists and Turns,
your astute enough to know that King is rolling out sound bites to appease the Klan and should be really concentrating on the litigation and other financial woes affecting his own project.
In my opinion, he talks shite and its all wishful thinking on his behalf as its the only way they can maybe eat into out dominance.
Yes, talking shite is his speciality. All for the benefit of the gullible.
On his house of cards comment- even a blind squirrel finds the occasional nut.
Re the first game against the huns…
I’ve already pointed out that qualifying will be difficult-as has TWISTSNTURNS. Don’t bother asking for the lottery numbers tonight,we don’t need to be clairvoyant to figure that out!
Having said that,I’d like to think that there is more chance of us still being involved in the last round of qualifying than there is of the huns still being in with a shout.
So,surprise surprise,the play-off round is the previous midweek.
Twists and Turns,
I get the emotional attachment fans have to their club, but surely to fuck there must be some among the horde that can see King for what he really is?
Ok lets be having you I need a laugh today … give me your answers
Q) How can a club that generates so much profit, top 25 in Europe ? have such large attendances Top 10 in Europe ?, is guaranteed European competition every year, Top 1, has two billionaires on board Top 5
be so fucking abjectly embarrassing decade upon decade in Europe ?
The starter for 5 that I already l had a good belly laughed at is that it is a well run football club. It may be a well run business also debatable but not a well run football club see question above. That´s the problem people are easily fooled.
Tims are as gullible as huns. In fact they are quickly becoming them
Anyone going to CP to have their photograph taken with the treble, remember to take your own camera or use your phone camera. I went last night and made the assumption that the club would have something set up for getting your photo taken and paying a small fee, not the case. Just letting you know guys.
Morning all. JTT53 & Bobby, many thanks for an informative piece today. Sadly it confirms my inclinations that PL is, indeed, untouchable. DD is an absentee landlord with a contact book that’s occasionally of use. Celtic FC is indeed a very well run business – but only from the plc perspective of solid investment return. What happens on the pitch is a sideshow and not the primary purpose. I’d be willing to bet that DD has already recouped his initial investment and added to it given the annual 6% return on his preference shares.
T&T at 09:32. You’ve nailed it for me when you say “It’s the reinvestment strategy that’s killing us. Selling the family silver for top dollar and buying crap with the proceeds leads to one thing. You end up with a house full of crap.”
Once the dust had settled following Rangers’ demise was the optimum time to invest heavily in the team, with ECL and its financial reward being the big prize year on year – and with only three qualifying rounds.
If I remember correctly Neil left because he was fed up having his team sold out from under him. The financial difference between players in and players out during his four year tenure earned the plc £15m. Great news for shareholders. Less than appetising for fans. Molde FFS!!! Molde…????
Lawwell said recently he doesn’t read social media because it would depress him or something like that. How does he know?
If he does dip in and out now and again and desmond also, I urge you to get to feck. You are both not wanted. Everyone says Celtic to DD is tiddlywinks in his vast empire. Hence he cant be ersed to attend AGMs. Well it might mean nothing to you but it means a lot to us. So feck off and deal with your big time stuff. Bothy of you know nothing about football even less than me and that’s saying something.
Both of you wouldn’t know a love of Celtic if it hit you on your ugly faces.
That’s a very good point,the distinction between being a well-run club/business. Of course,even the straw of being a well-run business falls to pieces in the face of not being a well-run club.
Note the impacts on the accounts and the attendances in,say,the last dozen years or so when “downsizing” (or asset-stripping,to give it its proper name) kicked in.
When the business has screwed up the football operation,it sucks money from it to shore up the business. But the paying customers,or fans as we were once known,are only interested in the football operation.
We CGAF about bailing out the business,it was the business that screwed up. Get the money ON the park,we will happily turn up. THAT will bail out the business.
Taking us for mugs,like Metropolis automatons,or shite on your shoe? Look out the banners to cover the top tier,Peter.
“Cos they’re there,they’re always there” A great quote from a great Celt.
It referred to THE FANS,Lawwell. Not your pathetic attempts at camouflaging our absence.
For me the support are the agitators. We all appreciate that Celtic F.C. is neglected, while Celtic PLC. is a well run business, the PLC would be nothing but an investment vehicle without Celtic FC. This was highlighted when Lawwell appointed Ronny D. as team manager and not what he was supposed to be, assistant to the manager. Que dissatisfaction from the support as attendances fell off the cliff. Nothing highlights more the effect that the supporters have if they feel the PLC has let them down. So the PLC must take account of the F.C. because if they do not, attendances, merchandise, season ticket sales are all affected. They tread a tightrope of success, failure to invest in the team is a failure that the PLC. cannot afford.
Ralph is a star, him and Desimond offer so much, intelligent love for our club, we are extremely lucky to have them. Viva le Tims.
Special place in hell reserved for someone,I hope.
I just got sent a link to this. Fuxake.
Peter “recluse” Lawwell has gone practically AWOL from all media platform since he helped to conceive the 5WA
I wonder why ?
Not my intention to depress people,honest!
The good news is there are always smarter Tims than the money men. And there are more of us.
Long game? Well,done that before,but personally I’d like a rapid knockout.
Because you hacked his accounts and changed his passwords?
Bobby, LOL 🙂
Scottish football is and probably always has been corrupt.
Fergus needed a billionaire on the board ;
1) Due to the Bank of Scotland being prepared to destroy Celtic FC through their conduit Sir David Murray. There was a sound business plan behind the thinking. Was it all legal ? I don’t think so
2) To maximise Fergus Mc Canns profit regardless of his promises
The only logical and sensible conclusion that anyone can come to is option 2
Lindsell Train bought new tranche of shades when previous manager left, share issue was at an all time high £166 they dropped to £160, on his departure. Not too shabby deal, eh!!
swings and roundabouts
Talking about homeless people. There was a young guy used to hang around Central Station a few years ago. He never hassled anyone. Everybody approached him and offered him a few bob. I once took him over to the shop across the road. No drink was asked for nor offered. He got bread and cold meat. Cornflakes and milk. Food you didn’t need a cooker for. He was waiting for news from a social worker about accommodation. I hope he got it.
NL: “We’re hoping to get a few more in, hopefully to join us in the camp in Austria. We’re looking in three or four areas and we know the areas where we need to strengthen.”
Talking about homeless people. There was a young guy used to hang around Central Station a few years ago. He never hassled anyone. Everybody approached him and offered him a few bob. I once took him over to the shop across the road. No drink was asked for nor offered. He got bread and cold meat. Cornflakes and milk. Food you didn’t need a cooker for. He was waiting for news from a social worker about accommodation. I hope he got it.”
Feck me I hope so too. Sad to see the predicament some people end up in.
Some years ago the missus and I were in Bathgate. She was going into the bakers and is seems to always be the way with Greggs, it was queued out the door.
I told her I wasn’t waiting in a long queue and I’d stay out and have a smoke whilst she went in.
I’d just lit up and I noticed a guy selling the big issue a few yards away. I wandered over for a chat. I gave him the money for the paper, and asked him if he wanted a cigarette.
“ thanks but I don’t smoke”
Well spoken chap he was. English. I asked him what he was doing in Bathgate. He explained he’d been working the streets around Edinburgh Waverley but wasn’t selling many copies and someone told him to try
I asked him how he ended up in the position he now found himself?
He said that he was married and living in England with his wife and 2 kids. He had a decent job and modest but well presented home.
He was sacked.
He was out of work a few months and couldn’t pay the mortgage. His wife left him and took the kids . Went off with some other guy.
The house was repossessed. No equity in it for him.
He said within the space of a few months he’d lost his job , his wife , his kids and his home.
I asked him if his family couldn’t help? Brothers ? Sisters? Parents?
Only brother had died a couple years earlier. Both parents long gone.
What about friends?
He said no one was able or willing to help him.
I said to him to wait until my wife came out the shop as I’d no cash in my pocket, and I’d give him a few £ to help a little.
He said no. He said if I just sell these copies in the next few hours, I’ll have enough to get the train back to Edinburgh and a bed for the night. He said he would be making his way back to England in a few days as he had an employment tribunal to attend where he hoped to either get his job reinstated, or, compensation.
Just think. You have nobody. No money so to speak. No house. No job. No friends and no family.
Yet there he was. Determined to “ work “ his way back.
That takes guts. It takes courage. It takes stuff that most of us don’t have.
Of course I never did find out what happened to him, but like your guy, I hope he’s ok.
Fingers crossed,mate. Homelessness in this country is a scourge,and one which can only get worse.
Why should a government waste money on people who can’t vote,and who very few people give a damn about? Put spikes on the doorways,that’s the answer.
About four years ago,3am or so,pissing rain in Swindon. I’m making a delivery in the centre of town. Couple of drunks started hassling a guy in a sleeping bag,sadly for them there was a cop car just round the corner. Just as well for me,of course.
They slung the two guys in the back and one of the officers advised me to not be so bloody stupid in future. Anyway,I asked him why the open-air but covered car park near the police station was off limits,it would be ideal for them to keep dry.
Tell yer new mate,he said,it’s fine by us as long as they’re gone by 6am.
Took the council a fortnight or so to get that stopped. That’ll be the council which is supposed to help the homeless.
Thank you for that article it just highlights the long road ahead.
On homelessness i always try to remind myself that we are all just a few steps away.
In a capitalist society like the USA the heartlessness shown by some people towards them is shocking.
One time i was walking in NY with a colleague and gave a homeless guy a dollar.My colleague remarked you should not have done that he will just buy drugs or alcohol.I was a little angry and retorted what’s it got to do with you how i spend my money?I then said when i had calmed a little if just one in a hundred bought food with that money then i would feel happy to have helped another.He stayed silent.
On another occasion one winter on 57th st and Madison ave there was a woman crouched by a bin and it was snowing.I gave her some money.
Some goomba walks past and says to me don’t fucking encourage them.
I initially ignored him then couldn’t let it pass.
So at traffic light i tapped him on shoulder and when he turned round i asked him in the polite Scottish way who asked you ya fat cunt??
He went apoplectic and turned a weird shade of purple and started his impression of an angry bear while screaming at me.
He was about 3 ft away and fuming so i repeated my question.
He was baffled that i was not intimidated so would come forward then back off as he couldn’t understand my lack of reaction.
After a bit i said listen fatty your boring the fuck out of me with your screaming and threats if you want to
fight I’m right here.
He then ran across the road and shouted wait there I’m going to get my gun, your dead asshole.
A crowd who had gathered started laughing and one guy said to me are you going to wait?
I said are you kidding it’s snowing and i have somewhere i need to be.
I never understand the lack of affinity that is shown by some people to their fellow man.
That was the minister for homelessness for Gods sake. How did she get the job? Tory basturt.
HI ghuys, just came on in between chores, noticed the homeless posts, think there is 2 sides to this the genuine and the not genuine ,my nearest town is warrington every Saturday the wife and I would go there shopping and there was always a guy begging outside greggs, I always gave him a couple of quid until one day my wife seen him while she was waiting for me, she went into greggs and bought him a cup of tea and a sausage roll, he threw them at her, feck off he shouted I want money, needless to say he never got any money off me ever again.hh.true story.
LG looking well,and training with the first team today,very promising….