What should we do about the corruption in Scottish football? Part 1


When you see what can’t be helped go by
With bloody murder in its eye
And the mouth of a man put on the rack
The voice of a man about to crack
When you see the litter of their lives
The stupid children, bitter wives
Your self-esteem in disarray
You do your best to climb away
From the streaming traffic of decay
Believing if you will that all these sick hate days
Are just a kind of trick Fate plays
But still behind your shaded eyes
That mind-constricting thick weight stays” (James/Atkin)
*
When I started this article for Sentinel Celts, I wanted to submit a unified article but the issues have proved too large for that (or more likely my summarising abilities are too weak for it, or alternatively again, I’m just a windbag) so I have broken it down into two, still long, parts, This one is the easy one – naming those guilty who are clearly on the other side of my Celtic fence. Part 2 will be harder when I have to examine what the hell was my club thinking and doing?

By corruption, I am referring to the matters surrounding the liquidation of Rangers in 2012, the reaction of Scottish Football Authorities to this matter, the reaction of the Scottish media and establishment, and the reaction of our own club to these events.

I think the principles involved could equally apply to any proven collusion and links involved in the many child coaching sex abuse scandals and any money laundering or bribery events in Sport.

My first principle is that the principal punishment and opprobrium should be visited upon the prime perpetrators of the corrupt activities. The secondary and lesser punishment should be visited upon those who colluded actively to overlook the corrupt practice or to assist its passage with lenient and partial administration and justice.

Finally, we should strive hard to avoid punishment of those who were innocent of the offence.

Trying to balance all of these principles brings us into difficult areas, mostly because there are a lot of unknown factors out there. How can we know that anyone involved in football administration was totally innocent? If they looked on the events unfolding at Ibrox with incredulity and bewilderment, are they guilty of a naivety that is criminal in a so-called professional position, such as a Board member of a non-Ibrox-based club?

Are they even more guilty if they looked on with knowing connivance as they had long suspected this was going on but chose silence and did not blow any whistles?

The modern judgemental world would answer yes to most of those questions.

We live by trial by media. You have to say you’re sorry and take what’s coming to you even if you were just naive and unaware of what was going on. Very few people are allowed to profess pristine innocence in all of this.

So, in applying these principles, within what we know about Scottish football events, who are the clearly guilty parties, who are clearly innocent and who is in that vast middle area of murky collusion with varying degrees of forethought and knowledge?

For me, the primary rogues are David Murray and the Murray Group. They instituted a scheme, initially of legal tax avoidance measures via EBTs, but administered their version of the scheme without regard to the advice of their Porn actor turned Tax advisor who had told them there needed to be an “Invisible Hand” involved in Trust payments, thereby rendering their version of the scheme illegal from the off. Even if they had followed his advice, they would have to have dropped the scheme eventually when tax law and policy had caught up with this latest loophole, and they chose not to do so.

The clincher in the guilt of Murray Group and the now-dead Rangers club was its oft-overlooked history of using a similar illegal scheme, DOS (the one we know about), before transforming to EBTs.

There is no defence for The Murray Group or Rangers, despite the several red herrings they trailed- “It was not illegal/unlawful”- “it needed a change of Law to make it illegal”- or “it was a tax reduction scheme not tax avoidance”. None of these defences stand up to scrutiny.

They were found guilty- they could not pay back their tax debts and their club died, or so it would seem.

Just below them, in terms of responsibility are those charged with providing oversight on these practices. In order of responsibility, these are the Boards of Rangers and the Murray Group, who, in the very best interpretation of their actions, knowingly failed to ask the questions required of their position in order to ensure that they knew what they were doing was not illegal. No Board member can defend themselves by saying they left all that finance stuff to Sir David.

Below Murray, the Rangers club and the Murray Group, lie the Rangers Board of Directors, and below them are 2 groups, a) the EBT- recipient players and their agents and b) The football authorities with responsibility for implementing the administrative rules on player remuneration and taxes.

The players may not be intelligent enough to knowingly be guilty on their own accord of collusion but they are wealthy enough to be advised by competent agents with contract negotiation skills, including a knowledge of the relevant laws governing payment and taxes.

Every player who agreed to an EBT is guilty of this 3rd level of offence and each of their agents is even more guilty as this is their professional bread and butter. We may not expect them to be honest but we can and should expect them to be legal.

The b) group guilty at this level are the football administrators, primarily those in the SFA and Scottish League, who had set rules about receiving individual details of the total remuneration from football employment of every registered player and that these were compliant with tax law. When Rangers were supplying total group figures and liabilities but not presenting these individually, there should have been an immediate demand to get the individual details that their own regulations and rules required.

Peat, Regan, Sandy Bryson etc; all fall into this category of people who had to know that something was wrong but failed to act on it. Indeed, they wilfully looked away from a crime being committed. In turn, the SFA’s parochial partialities are supposed to be overseen by UEFA and FIFA. These latter groups have shown a strange reluctance to police these matters. Well, it would be strange unless you suspect that they are scared to look too closely for fear of finding out the depths of their own negligence, collusion or, indeed, responsibility.

The next level of culpability falls on the rest of Scottish football, including Celtic.

That issue and my view on who is innocent will follow shortly. I would then welcome suggestions on what we do about the judgements reached.

The above is by Setting Free The Bears.

As usual any guest articles will be published , just send to sentinelcelts@gmail.com.

Notify of
fergusslayedtheblues

Did no one at the SFA wonder why top European players were willing to play in Scotland for ragers 1872 for a fraction of a weekly wage they could get elsewhere .
IMO ragers 1872 had their place man embedded in the SFA during this whole debacle and could never have pulled it off without them

Margaret McGill

A tangled myriad of cesspits and overlays of power corruption and lies. All responsible and all culpable to varying degrees. All willingly complicit in the cheating, stealing, lying and bullying. Facilitating violence on and off the park against Celtic for the remit of making tainted bigoted stolen wealth and stolen other things like integrity the truth and dreams. What was done about it? When it was all proven to be true?
NOTHING
Worse. They were brought back with an old mason slap on the back as of nothing had happened. Celtic PLC being complicit
Thanks SFTB for the article

Bada Bing

So it was only £130 million, ra peepil got fkd over for?

big packy

MORNING ALL, sftb wonderful piece of writing as usual, who was it that said, oh what a tangled web we weave, this would make a good suspense movie, might even coax that big ex celtic fan sir sean to play a part in it, what part I don’t know? but I suppose it will all come out one day,,heres hoping.hh.

The Gombeen Man

SFTB,

It’s simple,

“What you bury alive stays alive.”

The toxin simply festers and manifests somewhere else. No amount of rationalizing or deflection will ‘kill it.’

HH

Cosy Corner Bhoy

Enjoying the articles but will reserve comments until reading the third and last one.
BTW, I am absolutely bealing about ATOB’s no ticket for Cup Final.Thirty successive games doesn’t get you a ticket without a draw but you can’t even get into a draw on the Away Ticket scheme!Come to think of it that’s what scheming b@sturts do when they set up a system.Mebbe if I were a pyrotechnic wizard we would get accepted?.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

FERGUSSLAYEDTHEBLUES

The one which got me wondering actually happened very early on. When Hateley turned up. This is a guy who was plying his trade for one of the top teams in Ligue 1,in the billionaire’s paradise and TAX HAVEN of Monaco. Pack yer bags,doll-I’ve just signed for ra Rangers!

Soon to be followed of course by Francis and Wilkins. It didn’t chime,but…

Then of course there was the infamous Goram court case,where his lawyer provided evidence of a weekly wage of £1000. That’s One Thousand Pounds.

But the one that finally got even me understanding what was going on-but not how they did it-was when Murray showed the press in an interview the contract for Ronald de Boer,which stated that he was playing for “petrol money”

I knew then that even if that contract was genuine,there was another one. Thing is,I thought that the other one would be the official one for tax and registration purposes!

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

Just been reading my mails,got sent this re RANGERSTAXCASE

The meat of the article explains why the article in the Times may be pretty much true,but that the reason for the reduced HMRC claim is that for them to achieve the full amount including penalties would involve a new Tax Tribunal and huge costs for no benefit as the company is in liquidation anyway.

But the meat lies towards the end of the article,where he asks why this should be getting spun now…

https://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/2019/11/14/just-when-i-thought-i-was-out-they-pull-me-back-in/

SFTB
Good stuff again.
On a day when the smsm publish an article re the huns and taxes they do their usual and paint the huns as the victims and HMRC as the villains of the piece, they conveniently leave out important facts so that does indeed portray the huns as victims, a bit like the info that was given to LNS so he would come to the conclusion that was desired, you then give us a blog laying our the facts of who’s to blame and who are innocent.
IMO Everyone involved in Scottish football are to blame, some more so than others, the hard bit is deciphering the severity of each and everyone’s part, I agree with your assertions that the huns are the primary culprits, I don’t agree that the SFA are next down the scale, IMO they are equally culpable, all they had to do was say NO, they choose not to and then facilitated the huns in their deception.
I believe that those who chose not to blow the whistle should be thankful that it’s Scottish football-the cabal they are dealing with and not some “Trumped” up organisation where the whistle blowers get mega jail time, someone like a director of a non bigotdome club, I wonder who you mean 😉
Thanks for the blog, great reading.
HH

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

SFTB

Your article raises issues of dishonesty,complicity,corruption. But,at the risk of pre-empting any point you may raise in Part Three,it also raises the matter of corporate governance.

To wit,that as David Murray owned RFC virtually outright-I believe his shareholding was c90%-his word was law,no-one felt able to stand up to him.

No,not even the Non-Executive Directors,who are there for that very reason and have a legal obligation to do just that. Whatever Murray said was law,as far as RFC and its board of directors was concerned.

I have long had a problem with the corporate governance at Celtic Park,as you know. As far as I am aware,the N.E.D.s at Celtic were known personally to PL before their appointment,some of them by previous professional association. Also,they have all been in the role too long-as recommended by industry bodies,their shelf-life should have a maximum of nine years in order to maintain that independence and personal detachment.

Now,I’m not going to say that we have our own Murray in the boardroom-even my opinion of PL wouldn’t allow that comparison!-but there is a parallel in that his views quickly become official Company policy,that they are largely left unchallenged.

Now,others may disagree. And they may be right-indeed,I sincerely hope they are right. But the perception remains that what PL wants,PL gets. And THAT is a slippery slope.

Awe Naw

BRB

in quick reply to your question

on the 12th January 1965 (No Joke) or was it the day when I saw Cardinal Keith O’Brien dressed as Michael Jackson unashamedly wearing a white glove with one brown finger singing Bad while getting his ring kissed (Joke)

I regularly play devil’s advocate on the internet especially on CQN . You know give someone enough rope to hang themselves etc.

Quite often to help debate and argument. Ask Auldheid 🙂

https://thestory.ie/2012/05/28/dermot-desmonds-letter-to-gavin-oreilly/

I read this letter and as you can see it was 6 months before my CQN posting.

I wonder who paid the lot of money to have Dermot Desmond’s letter since them removed from the search engine indizes so it’s not so easily accessed by search engines. Probably we did 😉 Well not me before you jump on my case as I haven´t contributed since July 2012 so that´s all very debatable but not a worthy debate having I hope you agree

You should read it . If you can get your hands on it. An empty threat from him as no apology was forthcoming and I suppose he was warned off it by people closer to Celtic than he is or ever could be.

So he has publicly defended Rangers and their support twice now.

May I ask you what inspired the forensics ? Please Please desist from ever taking me seriously

It´s also a pity that CQN archives only go back to a few months after the 5 way agreement was that by chance or design I wonder ? mmmhhhhhhhhhhhh…………..

Ok BRB and Everyone Lots of Love and Kissess

byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee xxx

Byres Road Bhoy

SFTB Congratulations for setting the scene and the characters in what’s shaping up to be a ‘film noir’ spectacle. Can’t wait for the denouement.
Mags @ 7:28 Excellent. See above. You have a knack for encapsulating things accurately and succinctly when you choose to.
Mike @ 02:17 Sorry. Was asleep when you and Mags posted. Thanks for this measured reply to my post at 01:09 re possible reasons for DD’s remarks on Rangers back in 2012. I feel it’s worth a repost this morning so here goes…

“Some of my clients are guys like DD. These guys never make comments out of turn. And they know not to go off the cuff.and they certainly don’t do it on the record.

In my opinion there was zero chance that DD was doing anything other than floating a balloon. If a shit storm ensued, the club could claim he was misquoted, or was speaking in his personal capacity, or some other BS. But when Celtic fans did SFA, the game was up, as the Board then knew then that the fans would Go along with the scam.”

You and I discussed this some time ago on here. I hadn’t thought much about his remarks until then but had been prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. But the more I thought about it, the timing – before LNS and the FTT but after the 5 way agreement which none of us really knew much about (except, perhaps, the Celtic Board) – the delaying and final abandonment of Resolution 12, the more I began to doubt my original perception. I now believe, as Mags said, you are ‘Spot On’. Wow! I’m just thinking what it implies.

Mags, I was miffed by Awe Naw’s statement that: ““the streams of pish that I have read and heard from those Tims in ultimate denial attempting to explain away what the owner of Celtic actually meant are exactly the shady dumb fuckers that you need to be very careful of. It is exactly this type of obtuse and perverse thinking that left their kids exposed to predatory Catholic child molestors. They could not countenance it due to their own conflicted stupid thinking. Borderline evil being that willfully stupid”

As you’ll see from the foregoing, I took it as applying to me. Admittedly, my response last night pussyfooted around the issue in a misguided effort to be civil. Now maybe I AM just a little thick in the matters of Celtic’s board machinations but I think there is sometimes a bawhair between acerbic wit and downright abuse. And considering that on the night DD made his remarks AN posted – in agreement with many others – that he was merely mouthing platitudes, I found it not only a tad hypocritical but exactly the sort of ‘Attack Dog’ outburst that, in the opinion of many, has so marred CQN in recent times.

But nobody else took exception so it must just be me. However, today is another day and I am over it. I wonder if DD’s remarks may re-emerge in SFTB’s concluding part tomorrow.

Awe Naw

BRB,

I know what inspired the forensics .no need to answer . see what I mean about devils advocate 😉

Bada Bing

Really looking forward to Alex Rae’s forensic, incisive take on this…

Awe Naw

Bada,

lets hope its better than BRB´s 🙂

big packy

BOBBY, got your e-mail will do, cheers.hh.

Awe Naw

BRB

Give people enough rope etc LOL

to be clear here because you disagreed with what I wrote with regards your beliefs Which I know nothing off and clearly don’t give a shit about them and never will

you then went out of your way in an attempt to denigrate me because of it – in a kind of Jihadi way . yukky fucking yukk hang your head in shame.

Thereby actually only emphasizing and illustrating the point I was making which was

I highlighted it for you in case you don´t know how too.

the streams of pish that I have read and heard from those Tims in ultimate denial attempting to explain away what the owner of Celtic actually meant are exactly the shady dumb fuckers that you need to be very careful of. It is exactly this type of obtuse and perverse thinking that left their kids exposed to predatory Catholic child molestors. They could not countenance it due to their own conflicted stupid thinking. Borderline evil being that willfully stupid”

I understand that you have your beliefs but they are no more legitimate than mine and they should not be respected anymore than mine.

I belief in nothing. I believe that when you or my dearest; wife mother father daughter son dies that they are truly closer to god. I.e they don´t exist either.

Lots ofLove and Kisses

XXX

Mike in Toronto

Bada

I thought the rules had been changed, so that if you played in the EL, you were not cup-tied for the CL.

If so, he is really worth another $100 million at least..

🙂

mahe

Sftb,,
The only part of todays food for thought that I tend to disagree with is the notion the players are somehow responsible.
The fact that young Juninho also had an ebt totally independent of the light blues shows that then using schemes and the limits of the law was totally acceptable.
An agent would have looked at the bottom line not how it got there , and advised client as such.
He may or may not have ran it by a tax accountant ,, but at the end of the day all he could ask is “ are ebts legal ? “ to which the answer was yes.
Now it seems some were not totally convinced of that , or were told legal but be very careful as you might end up on the hook if wrongly administered.
So they got side letters were legally bound that company to pay any tax due.

Now set aside any allegiances and pretend its your son being offered double the wages somewhere and the tax advisor has told you how they pay the wages is legal and we have a cast iron guarantee back up contract to make sure you yourself arent on the hook,, would you advise to sign ?
99 percent would.

No one envisaged the club would and could actually die ,, virtually unheard of .
As far as Im concerned the players have done nothing wrong. It was legal when they signed.
The fact Juninho had one shows it wasnt about scruples , just part and parcel of the football business at the time.

If anyone is at fault here its the tax advisors who should have said dont accept too dodgy or at the very least if you do show me all documentation to ensure its being ran kosher and then advised client to bail or renegotiate the minute they realised the hun was fiddling.

Anyway after the article in the Times theres seems to be a feeling that something is coming down the pipeline and this is paving the way.
My own fav theory is that the big hoose needs rebuilt and has failed tests so the gov will pay telling us its an apology from the taxman as they were overbilled.
Or Minty is gonna buy Kings shares and the big switcharoo is complete,,debt shed , titles intact, MInty back in situ , business as you were before all this dreadful nonsense etc etc

Anyhows , happy Thors day and many thanks for your great work a usual . Looking forward to the next installment.
Hail Hail

Mike in Toronto

Mahe

A few quick points.

Not sure it is correct to say the EBT’s were legal when signed. They can say that the courts had not ruled that they were illegal at the time they were signed. But, the Court subsequently determined that they were not legal when signed.

I am not an expert in tax planning, and certainly not in British law, but given my understanding of how EBT are supposed to operate in theory (there has to be some discretion in the payments), versus how those were run (side contracts required regular payments to supplement the declared income), I dont know how anyone could have believed that system as set up would pass muster. That is not to say all EBT’s are illegal… but only the system they were using.

Was that explained to the players by their accountants/lawyers? I dont know, but if it wasn’t, I think we would have heard of lots of players suing advisers by now..

Mike in Toronto

Mahe

I didnt express that clearly …

I said:

“They can say that the courts had not ruled that they were illegal at the time they were signed. But, the Court subsequently determined that they were not legal when signed.”

What I should have said is:

They can say that, at the time they were signed, the courts had not ruled that they were illegal. But, the Court subsequently determined that they were not legal when signed.

Mahe
I agree with MiT re the players and their EBT’s, with respect to them a halfwit would have known as soon as they were given a side letter stating that they wouldn’t and the club would be held responsible if in the future the EBT’s were deemed illegal, that they were dodgy, seems that they weren’t even halfwits.
HH

Mike in Toronto

Thierry Henry named as new boss of Montreal Impact.

Still haven’t forgiven him for the handball against Ireland. Just one more reason not to like the Impact.

The Gombeen Man

The delicious irony of the mighty Glasgow Rangers shafting Her Majesty’s Tax Man and then being shafted by Hector.

The gift that keeps on giving.

It’s almost as funny as Tims voting for the Union and ending up with Brexit and Boris ?.

fergusslayedtheblues

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
————————————————————————————————————————
I hadn’t heard that R de Boer story before but sort of sums the whole charade up .

The whole lot of them were eventually caught bang to rights ,pure and simple as declared in the SC ,The ludicrous assumption that ragers 1872 would not have gone out of business if the tax liability had been just £20m is bulls**t .

I fail to see how MIH knowing how they were administering the scheme and the evidence that existed if found ,could not foresee the end result any other way .

IMO the whole dragged out appeals process was an attempt to buy time for the charade that followed murray getting out of dodge .
Are we really being asked to believe that Craig Whyte who bought the club for £1 and had only an £18m bill to Lloyds bank to settle ,then managed to run up debts to the tune of £140m in 11 months .Sorry I must have missed the headlines when he signed Messi and Ronaldo .

IMO ,Hugh Adams who had built the rangers pools into one of ,if not the biggest club football pools in Europe ,sold his shares because he saw the writing on the wall were the tainted Knight was concerned .He left saying that the way the Knight was running the club it was only going to end up one way ,In Admin.Hugh Adams was dismissed as a bitter old man .I would suggest he thought more of that club than DM ever did .

For me CW was just the patsy sourced to take the blame whilst the real culprit skulked off into the shadows with his obedient hacks falling over themselves to cover his back

big packy

MIKE, have a look at this clip from you tube when you Canadians get together.? https://youtu.be/nSquJihjouE

mahe

MIT ,
gotta be very brief but
” I dont know how anyone could have believed that system as set up would pass muster. That is not to say all EBT’s are illegal… but only the system they were using.”
I reckon this falls down at the fact the football world at large was using them hence the Juninho situation.
Totally independant there were clubs paying starts through ebt.
They thought it was kosher. Juninho obviously did.
And they are thick as champ remember and the agent gets 10 percent. The client is about to double his money then so is the agent.
I reckon this shows footballers are thick , agents wanted the money over the hazards involved , and people within the game will search to push the boundaries of the tax laws to gain a edge.
And also they wouldnt have known that this side letters , or indeed all parts of their contract , were not lodged with the governing bodies as stipulated.
No , standing by it. They went in on good faith and ended up collateral damage imo.
Away shopping with the child , surest way to slowly teach a man patience. Guacamole to make for tonights burritos and an Autumn apple crumble with extra cinnamon and some pecans in the crumble mix .
Hail Hail

mahe

big packy

THE GOMBEEN MAN and FERGUSSLAYEDTHEBLUES, good posts well said.hh.

SFTB

Mahe

I do not suggest that the players were the most guilty but I did state that they, and more tellingly, their agents, were guilty. The player is wealthy enough to get good tax advice; the agent is specifically charged to provide it. When Celtic players and staff were found guilty of tax avoidance through the oil investment scheme, it did not matter if they were as thick as mince and unable to count past 5, they were still guilty. Unless they had a cast iron contract with their agent that specified that the agent was wholly responsible for how the football-earned money was put to use, then they will have to cough up in recompense and cannot just say “Speak to my agent!”. Ignorance of the Law, and/or Economics is no excuse. They got the tax avoidance money in their pockets- they now have to pay it back.

Sol Kitts

I’ve just been catching up on the latest, and reading some of the absolute drivel being passed off as fact (we’re 5 hours behind the UK here). Judging by the logic of the huns on Twitter, it was Hector’s fault that Rangers evaded tax, but because the amount they had outstanding was marginally less than expected, they should be refunded the extra that they had to pay. This falls down on a number of grounds, but the big 2 reasons why it is crap logic are:
1. They never paid so there’s none of their money to hand back, and
2. If there was money to be repaid, it would be returned to the original Rangers, you know, the one currently being liquidated, to be shared among the creditors.
Personally, I would find it enormously entertaining if it had been the case that they lost their club because of the actions of their Queen’s tax collectors. What would they do, stop singing her bloody anthem at matches? Hold up cards saying show Lizzie the red card?
Sadly, I will just have to put up with the truth. Rangers verdict, death by hubristic suicide.

Mike in Toronto

Mahe

I dont know if all EBT schemes were as ham-fisted as this one seemed to have been ….

But, I cant see the players, and/or their reps. not knowing.

The players would all have agents/lawyers who would know that contracts have to be registered with the league, and would have known these were not. That was the whole point of the EBT scheme – these were side payments that were not registered..

I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall that, in the side letters, Rangers agreed to pay tax, if necessary. If so, I suspect that most simply said, ‘I’ll take the money, and let Rangers deal with it, if necessary’, never thinking that Rangers would go into liquidation.

But, absent evidence, we will never know on this one…

I suspect (again, just conjecture) that this is why the issue has been pushed of late …. if the Government cant collect from Rangers, they could go after players…. so, this is an effort by someone to reduce the amounts that can be claimed back by players, etc.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

SOLKITTS

Death by hubristic suicide.

Oh,very good!!!

Say hi to the missus,please.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

Re the payment method of preference for Juninho,as I understand events.

He joined us on loan from Middlesbrough,the deal was that we would fulfill the terms of the contract he had at Middlesborough as he was in his final year there and they could no longer afford him. We also lodged the contract details in their entirety,as required,with the SFA.

When Brian Quinn discovered the details of the remuneration,he checked things with HMRC. They told him that they were deeply concerned about the use of this method and were attempting to have legislation rule against it.

BQ then advised Celtic to contact HMRC with a view to formalising a payment which was above board in their eyes,and Celtic paid the balance. All within the same tax year that the payments to Juninho were made.

ADDITIONALLY,BQ then informed Murray of all of this,and told him that continuing the use of EBTs would be unwise. Murray obviously knew better. Hell mend him.

Bada Bing

Mark Wilson is a fkn idiot,he thinks the total debt was £20 million….

JimmynotPaul

Tom Rogic played full game for Austrailia against Jordan today.
Australia won 1.0 away.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

JIMMYNOTPAUL

Australia must be rubbish. Imagine only beating a former page three girl by one goal.

big packy

BADA, maybe wrong here, but was mark Wilson not with the hun paton, when he broke zaluskas nose.hh.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

BIGPACKY

He was indeed. Defended him in court too,possibly at the risk of perjury.

big packy

BOBBY feckin hell did not know that, is he not employed by celtic in some capacity, if he is he should be sacked?

mahe

SFTB,,,
“Unless they had a cast iron contract with their agent that specified that the agent was wholly responsible for how the football-earned money was put to use, then they will have to cough up in recompense and cannot just say “Speak to my agent!”. Ignorance of the Law, and/or Economics is no excuse ”
Cant roll with that .
They are well known thick accepted , and they rely very very heavily on agents we both surely accept.
Now agent is going to see the pay structure , get financial advice that its kosher or not , or if had dealing with that club before and all good then he probably wont check.
But the bottom line is he will say to the player you will be paid X amount.
That was guaranteed by the contract and side letters with an indemnity ,, but its all true . The player WILL be paid X amount.
Thats it , thats the agents job ,, to get the client with a pen in his writing hand in front of a contract stipulating a set amount that they are both happy with.
If the agent received advice that those ebt schemes were not illegal at the time ( nice play on words Mit ,, surely if something is not ( yet ) illegal its legal ? ) then as far as any of us should be concerned he ( the agent ) did his job honest and kosher.
What exactly is wrong there? Surely that is what he contracted to do ? No more no less. Get client good money thats guaranteed and not illegal , which it wasnt.
So , tick , he is in the clear he thinks and job done.

Now you seem to be saying its on the player to make sure his wages are kosher.
One of the most public and demanding jobs on the planet ,, and a trusted advisor taking 10% that has assured you its legal and backed up if any issues ,, and Mr Thick as Champ is supposed to go do his own fishing ?
Gimme a break.

Lets take a normal decent footballer who happened to sign for them , for instance Klos.
Now he came from German top division to Scottish league, right at Christmas time , in his prime.
He , obvious , would have been getting a decent wedge,,no bout adoubt it.
Now can you honestly hand heart tell me you think he knew his money wasnt all kosher ?
Bullshit if you said yes.
He is a respected player on the rise from a nation of sticklers ,, in his prime and damn good at his job.
And you honestly think he would risk it all , be labelled a cheat and lose tons of money ,, just to sign for Rangers ?
De Boer too ? Flo? C,mon.
All these players would have been offered mega bucks and been told , as our lawyer says , not illegal . Kerching all around !
Thats how backwater teams get big players.,throw the money.
The pay was great and not proved illegal plus the owner was gathering a decent squad.
It seems apparent now that agents never foreseen the angle that a massive institution of a club could actually die. It was practically unheard of.
The agents effed up , and left themselves open. Surprised they arent getting hauled , but then have the players been hauled to start bitching about the agents ?
And even then the players may well have signed contracts that says they just listen to the agent its all on them should anything go wrong. But to expect them to have the savvy to take responsibility for making sure their method of payments are legal is too much for me. Its jargon to most people never mind them. And why pay a fortune to others then have to do your own research?
The Thick as Champs are the least to blame,, and thats that ! 😉
Hail Hail

mahe

Bada Bing

SSB have been primed for a Jabba statement, keep the £20 million lie going…

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

MAHE

When Klos was injured,season over,at the end of 2004,we all thought that was it for them,the league was ours. Of course,while it should have been,that’s not how it turned out.

They had signed as back up a little known veteran goalkeeper from Man City reserves. This is before the Arab money put Man City at the top of the tree,at that time they were perennial strugglers.

Ronald Waterreus,if I remember correctly. Played a blinder. For five sodding months.

Anyway,during initial negotiations,the agent told the club that he was not happy with the method of payment,and preferred that the nett amount remain the same,but that it be paid in the time-honoured fashion.

He was told that the nett amount will be paid,and that how it was paid was none of his business. That he either accept that,or the deal is off.

My point? I doubt that he was the only agent that raised questions. But money talks. The deal was a good one for Waterreus,one his agent couldn’t have realised with anyone else. Waterreus was aware of it,as players could call on the loan part of their remuneration at any time. The agent was aware of it,see above. Rangers,obviously were aware of it. As were Celtic,btw.

Sadly for the huns,HMRC were aware of it too. Shame,that.

fergusslayedtheblues

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
MAHE

The words of Jean Alain Boumsong about signing for ragers 1872

“When I discovered it I first refused to sign the contract and said, ‘What is this?’

“I didn’t want to sign because it seemed strange, we don’t have that kind of payment in France and I didn’t know anything about it. When I left Rangers, for example, to sign for Newcastle, it was for a normal contract with normal payment.

“But the day I was signing for Rangers I was told it was legal.

“As players we don’t know the law but my advisers said, ‘It’s okay, you can sign it. It’s legal’.

“I wouldn’t have signed otherwise, no way. If I thought it was wrong legally I wouldn’t have gone. It’s important to be able to sleep at night without any fear of being chased by the tax office.”

Majoc
Dubinsscommon
Celtaholic
Gorbalstam
Sadiesbhoy

Et. al.

Missed.

fergusslayedtheblues

regards players culpability in the tax wheeze
From reports of players ,there was obviously concerns as to the way they were being paid ,So someone at ibrokes in their wisdom thought ,we should give them a soothing little secret letter to ease the worries ,so many were concerned that at least 53 secret side letters were issued .
As soon as one of the secret letters was drafted the line was crossed from tax avoidance to tax evasion .
A scam exposed as a scam and that fact should never be forgotten

The Gombeen Man

Lee O’Connor starting for Ireland.

Next Sevco will be asking for our titles stripped given their rough treatment at the hands of Her Majesty.

Same club, 54 Titles, debt dumped and no meaningful SFA reform and still cheap at £50 a ticket.

…And joint top of the league, League Cup Final and in Europe.

Well done Pedro & his minions.

big packy

JIM,was just about to post has jimthetim53 gone on holiday,when you popped up, majoc is bobby, gorbalstam and sadiesbhoy post on the other channel, don’t know the other two im afraid, how are you by the way.hh.

1 2 3