Celtic: Enjoy our success or let corruption define it as meaningless?

These are the days now that we must savour
And we must enjoy as we can
These are the days that will last forever
You’ve got to hold them in your heart. (Van Morrison)
*

Thank you for the days
Those endless days, those sacred days you gave me
I’m thinking of the days
I won’t forget a single day, believe me (Ray Davies)
*
These are days you’ll remember
When May is rushing over you with desire
To be part of the miracles you see in every hour
You’ll know it’s true that you are blessed and lucky
It’s true that you
Are touched by something
That will grow and bloom in you (Natalie Merchant)
**

I am going to make a hard request. I am going to ask you to
forget that the events just prior and post 2012 ever
happened or, to be more precise, that Celtic, the official club
and board , had not reacted as they did.

We still have the situation where Rangers went bust and a
tribute act entered the 4th tier of Scottish football but we will leave aside any shame or disbelief that many of us felt at our club’s reactions to these events.
It’s a hard ask, I know, and I do not intend to avoid those issues but cover
them in another, separate, piece for Sentinel Celts.

However, for the present, I want to concentrate on the football, the primary purpose of our club, I believe. Should we be happy with 21st Century Celtic?
Should we be deliriously happy that this is the longest period of dominance
we have ever enjoyed in Scottish football? Should we be unhappy or despairing that we are not really relevant as a European force anymore and the heights we scaled in the 60s and 70s are hard to imagine nowadays or foresee as returning in any imminent future?
Or, is there a balanced approach to be had in accepting our limitations but striving to be the best we can be within those limitations?

My view is that we have been soured by success. Since Martin O’Neill arrived in 2000 and added his football expertise to the legacy of financial and structural re-build that Fergus McCann dragged us through in the 90’s, we have had unprecedented domestic success.

14 league titles won and only 5 lost. 8 titles in a row achieved since season 2011/12 and in a strong position to match the record this year with a view to setting a new one.

9 Scottish Cups and 7 League Cups won and we last lost a cup in 2015/16 when we lost a semi-final to the Ibrox club on pens in April, the year Hibs won it, having earlier lost the LC semi to Ross County in January.
This season, so far, we have played 25 matches , losing only 2, resulting in us being top of the league, top of our Europa Group and in the LC final.

We have scored 73 goals so far this season and we are only just into November.

So, are we pleased and are we entertained? Has it gone as predicted or is it better or worse than we thought it would be?

Well, remember, we are putting aside the 2012 implosion issues for the present.
I am pleased that, in a tense situation, heading towards a possible 9iar, we have started well and performed with a style and to a level that has been more carefree than we could really have expected. I was opposed to the idea of Lenny getting the permanent manager’s job this season though I was extremely grateful for his willingness to take over in the wake of Brendan’s traitorous departure.
I see no need to disparage Brendan’s coaching abilities because of his double dealings with our club. I am quite happy to see him as a great coach but a flawed man.

Similarly, whilst I feared for Neil’s health in being appointed as Celtic manager, I was
disgusted by the level of vitriol he faced about his coaching abilities on his appointment. The PR stunt after our SC victory inflamed passions, but this man, who has done so much for us as a club, was being dismissed as a coaching dinosaur, and a failed manager at Bolton and Hibs.
In being so derided he joins every player who has contributed to our recent success.

We have keepers who were belittled as 3rd choice at Southampton & who never leaves his line, or who once tried to score from a corner against us, or were not good enough for Dundee.

We have right backs who were projects bought through Lawwell connections at Man City, or another Dudu dud or a guy who could not get a game for a poor Stoke outfit.

We have a young CB who is a converted midfielder,and a slow lower league Frenchman.

At LB we have an unknown Belgian, a journeyman Scot,and a converted winger all trying to replace a £25m player.

In midfield we have a past it Captain who for most of his career could not be trusted with 5 and 10 yard passes, a moody Frenchman, an overplayed Calmac who wants to go to Leicester soon, and a guy who was on loan to Aberdeen recently and whom we would have sold as makeweight to finance a deal for John McGinn.

On the wing we have an empty jersey and a coward who is nowhere near as good as a guy who is languishing on Norwich City’s benches and reserves or a guy who could
not get a game with a poor Southampton team.

Up front we are headed by a non Centre-forward striker, who is probably a left winger, and is French, therefore moody. He is backed up by an untested Ivorian and a disintegrating bad boy.

Finally,our manager, is backed up by an over-promoted “defensive coach” who is merely a Boardroom spy, and an Irish fellow with no great coaching background.
Yes- Cluj was very bad, I would prefer we were mixing it at CL level, even taking the thumpings, but this team needs time to grow at Europa level and is well capable of
attempting an ambitious last 16 or so.

Yes, we deserved nothing from the Livi defeat on plastic.

But that’s 2 matches out of 25. They are, so far, the blips rather than inherent weaknesses.
Given our sporting record over the past near 20 years and our complete dominance of the last 9 domestic trophies, I have to ask the Sentinel Celts-and not just you on this site-why are we so angry and why are we so dissatisfied with our team?

Yes, it could all explode at the final hurdle on in trying to set a new record but the question still has to be asked.
Why would we not have the balance heavily weighted in terms of our multiple success over our occasional failures?
Why was WGS sacked for failing to win one title out of 4, despite having preserved our CL credibility at a time when the handicaps being place upon us, as a peripheral club, were increasing?

In pure football terms, why are we jeering our way to 9iar? (Please try to do so without commenting on Res. 12 and the demise and corruption of Rangers and, subsequently,
Sevco.There will be a chance to address that in my next
article for Sentinel Celts.)
Jackson Browne wrote a variant on the “These Days” theme…

These days I’ll sit on cornerstones
And count the time in quarter tones to ten my friend
Don’t confront me with my failures
I had not forgotten them (Jackson Browne)


The above is by Setting Free The Bears. We feel we will thrive by giving a platform to all to be heard. If youve got a point of view to put to the crowd simply write it out and send to sentinelcelts@gmail.com

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SFTB

In any three part series,it is always wise to set the scene first,just as you did.

Fergus and the fans gave us the foundations,and Tommy,WimTheTim and Dr Jo built on that. Martin had some very good players to build his team around when he arrived,though he was slow to appreciate how good some were,I think. Jackie,Lubo,Stan and big Mjallby to name but four.

Some of course,Like Paul Lambert and Henrik,oh he knew alright. Others,he shuffled out of the door ASAP. And rightly too,in most cases. Still a fair bit of rebuilding to be done,and he did it overnight.

Then,with the exception of BBJ,the spending stopped. But The Good Ship Celtica sailed on-you can’t stop a ship like you can stop a car. It took a while for us to grind to a halt,for the costcutting to become noticeable in the league tables-for the purpose of this argument,we were stitched up in 2003 and 2005-but it was becoming apparent if you enjoyed watching pure beautiful inventive football.

To labour a point,we were putting bunker fuel into a Ferrari. I don’t think Gordon Strachan was sacked,I genuinely think he had had enough of it,plus he could probably see how the fix was in now that Sir Walter of Cardigan was back. Tony Mowbray,poor lad. Out of his depth against that level of cheating,pretty much wrecked his career.

Martin gave us back our pride. Gordon did his best to maintain it. Neil? Neil restored it,with a thunderous and defiant roar.

And then it was taken away from him,from us,as we watched our best players being sold from under him. Even Joe Ledley,for want of the same contract as before. At 27 and in his prime,and replaced by spending £2.4m on a player who couldn’t lace his boots.

As an example.

I could go on but…

The reason we are so cynical about new signings-as referenced towards the end of your article-is simple. A decade and a half of past experience. During which time we have seen six managers undermined by one man. Now,that’s all our opinion,of course. No,we cannot prove this to be absolutely true as we are not privy to the conversations which take place in the inner sanctum. The inner sanctum,IMO,being inside PL’s cranium. I’ll settle for the balance of probability,as witnessed on the pitch.

That’s proof enough in civil proceedings,and I like to think that proceedings on here are ALWAYS civil.

Thanks very much for your article,T. And for the rest of the series. I can’t wait to see whodunnit!!!

Where a lot of us find frustration, anger, disbelief, joy, ecstacy & love…l find I can’t leave…but thanks SFTB…I can differentiate between club(plc) and team…though one sometimes breaks my heart and the other is the team. I probs should read the article now lol

H.H.

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ANDERSD

It is never difficult to differentiate between a ray of sunshine and a Scotsman with a grievance. Nor is it ever difficult to differentiate between Celtic FC and Celtic Plc,nor their respective supporters.

How’s trix anyway,old son?

Mario Bertolini

SFTB – well written and thought provoking. On reading your post it rekindles our thoughts and feelings over those years past, present and future. I could type more but I await your further instalments. Thankyou. Mario.

BMCUWP…am getting there…had a government capability assessment last Friday…very interested to see what the report says. So how do you differentiate between a ray of sunshine Scotsman, and one with a grievance…only one exists lol. How are you? Well I hope

H.H.

big packy

MORNING ALL, sftb great thought provoking article, cant wait for number 2 HH.

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ANDERSD

I’d be concerned about what any assessment of me said,old son. But I wouldn’t be surprised! Sod them all and paddle your own canoe,mate. Too many extras from Metropolis (1926) on the planet these days,it needs more individuals.

Me? Mustn’t grumble. Nobody listens,or even gives a f..k!

HH

Philbhoy

Hi Bobby!
Still not working on the new laptop, just the old one!

Libero

SFTB – interesting musings. Do many of our fellow fans simply lack ‘the grace’ to enjoy what’s good about our current status?
A coupla possible factors; Entitlement and greed rarely present as gracious and appealing emotions. They’re always ugly.
Anger and resentment – as I’ve known them – can be quite intoxicating and ‘enjoyable’ to host (I try to not go there these days..)
Possible too, that glee and gloating also feel quite dizzying when the make the person feel superior to his or her peers.
Your characterization of how some choose to see our current squad is bang on, but surely we’ve all been proven wrong by their performances and by the skill of those who picked them out.
And if I can forward one additional thought for now…
Are we actually missing our formative favorite for whom we were paid very handsomely; gosh, how some ranted and raved over that move!
Again ta; good writing indeed HH

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PHILBHOY

I’ll try to figure that out! You got a baseball bat lying handy?

Mario Bertolini

Andersd re: assessment by Government. treacherous. Do not know your ailments. Advice get someone with the Knowledge to complete any forms, coz it’s a tick box exercise points 1-10 over various abilities to do tasks. Thing is you may be able to do something once but not consistently. its how you feel able at your worst. Been there. Imagine you are a caseworker in DWP a common Joe blogs, who knows hee haw about ailments making that decision which impacts on your life. Some of them are complete assholes with no regard to people and impact they make on people’s lives. I worked inside that environment. Stats stats stats. take care. GET SOMEONE with knowledge to complete said forms. you don’t need to lie it’s in the wording.
.

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MARIOBERTOLINI

Very sound advice,old son. A few of my friends have been shafted down here already-and it hasn’t been ‘rolled out’ here yet. Only used for new claimants,but that also includes those who have to move on or off a particular benefit.

Change of circumstance,straight on to UC.

Back in the day,I could help with people claiming. Most staff were quite helpful so I would help my mates with their claims as it only needed common sense and a second pair of eyes. Not now,the whole system is designed to fail the claimant.

Fortunately,ANDERSD knows a really good bloke who can help him out if necessary. Somewhat surprised he hasn’t already asked him-though maybe he has,of course. An absolute diamond,that fella.

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LIBERO

As I’ve said before-and SFTB will testify-if you get ten Celtic fans in a bar,they will give you eleven different opinions!

SFTB has described exactly what has been said about the players he references. Said in pubs,buses,blogs,etc. And that’s why you get the eleven-to the power of ten,probably!-opinions.

Fifty years ago,the newly-formed Ardrossan Garryowen CSC was so badly split by pro-and anti-Tommy Callaghan fans that they basically split the bus allocation by it. Same with Harry Hood,rest his soul. Some wanted a player with more dig. Me,always got time for a maverick,wrap your arms round Derek Riordan,let him do what he does on the pitch and stop him doing what he does off the pitch. Jock did that with a good few players. So did Billy,and Martin.

But you are right that players seem to be judged very quickly these days. Too quickly,perhaps. Boli,for instance or his replacement who has taken three years to stake a claim. The obvious one is Ryan Christie,a first choice despite being out the door a year ago after three years of being denied the chance to show what he had. Like CalMac before him,come to think about it. Begs the question,who have we lost through being too quick to judge? I can think of a few possibles there,even back to Jim McInally.

Things are too instant now. We want it all and we want it now. A player is only as good as his last game,and if his last game was excellent,there will always be someone reminding you of the last bad game he had,or he’s only playing for a contract. I usually settle for a muttered ‘Aw,ffs’ when a Celtic player doesn’t do what I thought he should have. Sometimes I don’t! But the vitriol in the stands and the timternet,hmmm…

I recall that NOT THE VIEW dropped a very good feature,THEY EMBARRASSED THE HOOPS,because they had run out of genuine targets. Which meant that they went after young lads who didn’t embarrass the hoops,but didn’t quite reach their potential. I think it might have been a complaint from Danny Crainie’s family which put a stop to it. They should have brought it back in the early 90s,plenty of material then!

My point? I’ve forgotten! But we’re never happier than when we are moaning,but that’s because we are perfectionists. And when we are moaning at the moment,about this that or the other,it doesn’t take much to remind us of the other 90% of the team that is purring like a Rolls.

Which is a lot different from say,30 or 60 years ago. We REALLY had something to complain about then!

Libero

BMCUWP – nothing wrong with differences of opinion. But SFTB’s pointing to something nastier, uglier. Lack of gratitude or grace.
But I think it’s too inaccurate to cite our perfectionism – in fact, what you’re surely talking about is unrealistic expectations. The expectation that we’ll somehow never have to feel ‘bad’ about anything Celtic related. Course that’s BS. No club is immune to bad news; poor results; off days. But if I let my expectations determine what I think the world owes me, than I’m donald-ducked.
Now less of the coyness too – tell me, are we missing KT or has the club/team readjusted to prove that no single player is bigger than the team 😉 HH

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Oh,dear. Has someone been economical with the actualite,has someone perhaps permitted an imperfect registration? These things,of course,are reprehensible if par for the course in Scottish football,and governance thereof.

However…

https://johnjamessite.com/2019/11/13/an-online-submission-to-the-home-office/

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My sister just texted me there. As BADABING pointed out to us yesterday,ticket office hours have been reduced. Her point was slightly different from mine,however the news came yesterday.

One day after this.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/11/thousands-of-uk-workers-pay-to-rise-as-living-wage-increases

I assume that Celtic Plc are redeploying ticket office staff,and that no-one is seeing their hours cut. For that would be an appalling vista.

Ged

Great article. Too many happy to take pot shots at their own team for the tiniest of flaws.

Awe Naw

However, for the present, I want to concentrate on the football, the primary purpose of our club, I believe. Should we be happy with 21st Century Celtic?
Should we be deliriously happy that this is the longest period of dominance
we have ever enjoyed in Scottish football? No due to the abjectly poor standard of Scottish football and that the custodians of our club flaty disagree with the primary purpose of our club assertion

Should we be unhappy or despairing that we are not really relevant as a European force anymore and the heights we scaled in the 60s and 70s are hard to imagine nowadays or foresee as returning in any imminent future? Yes when football development and quality are sacrificed for PLC profit profit , dividend and bonus and Old Firm consolidation including unofficial haunders then yes we should be outraged

Or, is there a balanced approach to be had in accepting our limitations but striving to be the best we can be within those limitations? What limitations ? Lazy propaganda imho

My view is that we have been soured by success. Since Martin O’Neill arrived in 2000 and added his football expertise to the legacy of financial and structural re-build that Fergus McCann dragged us through in the 90’s, we have had unprecedented domestic success.

14 league titles won and only 5 lost. 8 titles in a row achieved since season 2011/12 and in a strong position to match the record this year with a view to setting a new one.

9 Scottish Cups and 7 League Cups won and we last lost a cup in 2015/16 when we lost a semi-final to the Ibrox club on pens in April, the year Hibs won it, having earlier lost the LC semi to Ross County in January.
This season, so far, we have played 25 matches , losing only 2, resulting in us being top of the league, top of our Europa Group and in the LC final.

We have scored 73 goals so far this season and we are only just into November.

So, are we pleased and are we entertained? Has it gone as predicted or is it better or worse than we thought it would be?
To ignore the ever decreasing standard of Scottish football is pure folly. It has gone exactly as I predicted on CQN on 2011. We need to stop talking in terms of Scottish football but in terms of Old Firm as that is what it is all about and what the problem is. dismantle Old Firm reinvigorate Scottish football we as a club are not interested

Well, remember, we are putting aside the 2012 implosion issues for the present.
I am pleased that, in a tense situation, heading towards a possible 9iar, we have started well and performed with a style and to a level that has been more carefree than we could really have expected. I was opposed to the idea of Lenny getting the permanent manager’s job this season though I was extremely grateful for his willingness to take over in the wake of Brendan’s traitorous departure.
I see no need to disparage Brendan’s coaching abilities because of his double dealings with our club. I am quite happy to see him as a great coach but a flawed man. Why ? compared to the custodians of our club he is anything but he is also not a parasite .. contrast and compare how Neil was treated .. I wonder if BR Celtic fan would be aware of that

Similarly, whilst I feared for Neil’s health in being appointed as Celtic manager, I was
disgusted by the level of vitriol he faced about his coaching abilities on his appointment. The PR stunt after our SC victory inflamed passions, but this man, who has done so much for us as a club, was being dismissed as a coaching dinosaur, and a failed manager at Bolton and Hibs.
In being so derided he joins every player who has contributed to our recent success. Neil should never have been placed in that situation and should be looking at equaling Jock Steins record off his own back .. but money was sacrificed for football development – didn´t you notice ?

We have keepers who were belittled as 3rd choice at Southampton & who never leaves his line, or who once tried to score from a corner against us, or were not good enough for Dundee.

We have right backs who were projects bought through Lawwell connections at Man City, or another Dudu dud or a guy who could not get a game for a poor Stoke outfit.

We have a young CB who is a converted midfielder,and a slow lower league Frenchman.

At LB we have an unknown Belgian, a journeyman Scot,and a converted winger all trying to replace a £25m player.

In midfield we have a past it Captain who for most of his career could not be trusted with 5 and 10 yard passes, a moody Frenchman, an overplayed Calmac who wants to go to Leicester soon, and a guy who was on loan to Aberdeen recently and whom we would have sold as makeweight to finance a deal for John McGinn.

On the wing we have an empty jersey and a coward who is nowhere near as good as a guy who is languishing on Norwich City’s benches and reserves or a guy who could
not get a game with a poor Southampton team.

Up front we are headed by a non Centre-forward striker, who is probably a left winger, and is French, therefore moody. He is backed up by an untested Ivorian and a disintegrating bad boy.

Finally,our manager, is backed up by an over-promoted “defensive coach” who is merely a Boardroom spy, and an Irish fellow with no great coaching background.
Yes- Cluj was very bad, I would prefer we were mixing it at CL level, even taking the thumpings, but this team needs time to grow at Europa level and is well capable of
attempting an ambitious last 16 or so.

Yes, we deserved nothing from the Livi defeat on plastic.

But that’s 2 matches out of 25. They are, so far, the blips rather than inherent weaknesses.

You´ve been on CQN for too long

Given our sporting record over the past near 20 years and our complete dominance of the last 9 domestic trophies, I have to ask the Sentinel Celts-and not just you on this site-why are we so angry and why are we so dissatisfied with our team? I think there is serious conflation and confusion going on here SFTB, Deliberately so I may add from you. Unless the team includes the Board. Not what I recognise. There were a few .. as you always get ..contributors who were maybe not happy with Boli or Jullien at the beginning but most have been won over…

Yes, it could all explode at the final hurdle on in trying to set a new record but the question still has to be asked.
Why would we not have the balance heavily weighted in terms of our multiple success over our occasional failures? There is NO opposition. The only “credible” opposition is a financially doped outfit since 1989 whom we (AS A CLUB) are delighted about … aye and their is the rub

Why was WGS sacked for failing to win one title out of 4, despite having preserved our CL credibility at a time when the handicaps being place upon us, as a peripheral club, were increasing? I thought he resigned … are you deviating from the 4 year OF shelf life as a manager drivel ?

In pure football terms, why are we jeering our way to 9iar? (Please try to do so without commenting on Res. 12 and the demise and corruption of Rangers and, subsequently, Who is jeering the football ? We have a 10,000 waiting list

SFTB as AN EXERCISE IN FAKE NEWS I THOUGHT THIS WAS SUPERB

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LIBERO

I genuinely think that SFTB is right,there is too high a level of expectation. But for me it is timternet that exacerbates the angst. If you are out wi your pals after a game,say half a dozen of you,and you say so and so was shit,well,they will probably agree. They watched the same game,after all. One or two might say that you’ve never liked him,you’re always on his back.

That’s mates,that’s opinions. It’s forgotten about two pints later.

You go home from the game,post those same thoughts on a site read by thousands,it grows legs. People jump in,that’s what I’ve always said about that no-user,etc. Before you know it,the thought sticks. Every mistake is magnified. The internet is a wonderful thing,but sometimes it reinforces our prejudices. Worse,it justifies them too. It canny be just me,these people all agree with me. But a ten minute conversation with your pals would have put you right.

Not now. Even the world’s biggest idiot will now find someone who agrees with him. Or worse,vote for him.

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AWENAW

Chill,old son. It’s a three-parter. SFTB is trying to state things as he sees it,and has heard it. There’s little doubt for instance that all the disparaging comments that he mentions about our players have been made.

There’s also little doubt that he is playing the even broker in his article,but then that’s not always a welcome chair to hold.

His exercise so far has exposed the expectation management from the Plc,one that has been apparent to many of us for so long. They are in print now,mate.

And yes,your replies have stuck to the point each time. I don’t have a problem with your responses,I wish I had written a good few of them!

But…

I’ve no idea when Parts 2 and 3 are due,though I’ve reformatted Part 2 and put it in draft,but trust me,they are worth the read. And the wait.

The point? This one I do remember. Don’t shoot the messenger,even one you have disagreed with previously. Dissect his points,as you have done. SFTB is more board-oriented than you or I will ever be,there is little doubt about that. But he is NOT pro-board,not anywhere near it from my personal experience with him. I despise the bastards-he tries to understand them so that he can despise them less.

Think back to the 2011 you mentioned. How many anti-board posters were there then? You,me,Mags,CANAMALAR,obviously a few others. That gathered pace with their greed and incompetence over the years. There have been a few reluctant converts along the way,AWENAW. Some of them are still on The Road to Damascus.

Awe Naw

BMCUWP,

I am completely chilled. I have no problems with SFTB

I don’t recognise at all the stance of his post. Yes some comments have been made on here negatively occasionally.. often deserved btw after a poor performance by the player or the team but it’s hardly “jeering all the way to 9 in a row”. That I don’t recognise at all. In fact the opposite apart from Twists moaning about Jullien but he’s been forgiven and wore the penance wig for a week. No I think it’s an injustice towards the output on SC so far

More SFTB AND BSR I say. The more intelligent , civilised and pretty Tims on here the better.

Welcome Anders D and Ged and anyone else whom I may have missed.
HH
………………………………………
Well, that sure has got a few going SFTB, problem for me is that you can’t ignore what has happened re the huns or the governance in the game, it’s impossible.
The reality is that before the huns went bust we were in a two horse race with more money, or more streamlined with less baggage than the other horse, since they went bust we have more money than every other club in the country combined, so the past seven years imo we haven’t done as well as we should have, the time afore they went bust we did Ok but could have done so much better had the PLC chosen to put the team first and foremost, they didn’t.
Also I don’t think that most of us on here “why are we so angry and why are we so dissatisfied with our team?” I certainly am not and apart from the occasional poster the blog is by and large behind the team 100%, there has been what can be described as constructive criticism, but nothing like the slagging that players and coaches get on other blogs, the posters here recognize that the team and the coaches are hamstrung in so many ways by those who control the purse strings, no matter how much you want to you can’t put these things to the back of your mind and forget about them.
I agree with what BobbyM said about the biggest problem being the one who sees himself as Mr Celtic and I agree with Awe Naw almost 100%, he was wrong about the 10,000 on the waiting list 😉
Cracking post tho, you don’t have to agree with something to appreciate what you have said and the effort put into the post, well done.
HH

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PHILBHOY

Thanks for putting the record straight on CQN. Not that some people paid much attention,mind. Pearls before swine with them.

I’ll say it again,no problem with us and them or elsewhere,and that’s the way we like it. They have their views,we have ours.

HH

Auldheid

Human beings just love to judge. They were told not to in The Beginning, but women eh? (Kidding ladies)

Problem is the Universe.

It is so bloody BIG!

So much to know even if confined to our own backyard. What is grass made of? How does it grow?Why does it grow? Those things with red colouring that fly around. What are they? One is different from the other in size and shape.

So to get a grip we separate by calling one lot birds and the other moths and then we separate birds into separate types and moths too. So one is a Robin and the other a Red Admiral.

The different species are results of their evolution based on their life experience over eons. Which brings me to my point (at last you say) about the CQN practice of separating pro and anti Board posters.

If your experience like mine was a civil service career in a management role, climbing up the ladder on ability and merit (with a pause because my bosses had me down as having too much worker and not enough management attitiude) then that is the experience that causes the perception of anyone reading a post who DONT KNOW your experience, no more than a poster knows that of those judging his or her post.

I remember and still hold to the point that many of the problems at Celtic discussed on CQN were due to lack of capacity and/or communication systems to create an efficient organisation. That came from my experience, confirmed to an extent when involved in trying to improve communications between club and the support.
However if that was not the experience of others it could be read as excusing the Board. A judgement I can understand, knew to be wrong and I think time has hopefully shown that.

My overriding point is that whilst judgement is a natural tool to try and come to grips with reality, it is one that inevitably prevents reality being seen.

It does that because humans are trapped by time. The way out of the trap is patience. Take James Forrest, the lad had obvious ability but in early days had hamstring problems and did not work hard enough. Now after the passage of time we can see that in JF’s case infinite patience has produced immediate results.

Back to my point, make room in judgements on who is pro and who is anti Board for the possibility that neither apply.

Which makes SFTB’s post a welcome one. It gives us an opportunity to practice.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

Nigel Farage and BJ go into a bar. They ask for a whisky. The barman pours them,then throws each into their faces.

WTF? That’s not what we wanted! We wanted a whisky!

Ah,says the barman. But you didn’t say how you wanted it delivered.

Well,said BJ,we’ll have another whisky. No chance,says the barman. You’ve had your go.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

AULDHEID

Yep.

Auldheid
If there is problems re communications between the board and the support, it’s because the board don’t want a direct line to the support, these are people who have in the main done very well in business and the last thing they want are a few disruptive supporters giving them any kinda grief that will upset their lives, if they wished an open line to the support would be available, they are quite happy to feed some of the support via their preferred blog with snippets of their choosing, imo of course, and you know that fine well 😉
HH

Mike in Toronto

Not surprisingly, I would tend to agree with the comments of AweNaw and TET.

Would we accept a Rangers’ review of Rangers’ title winning seasons as valid if they started off by saying, ‘let’s forget about the EBT’s and just talk about how good the team was?’ I wouldn’t think so; the on field product was informed by the off field shenanigans.

For me, since 2011, the keys goals for Celtic are, or should be, 1. Address the corruption 2. Qualify for the CL and 3. Win the league. In that order.

1. Address corruption first, because if we go along with it, we are no better than or different from them. Plus, on a more pragmatic level, failing to deal with it makes the other goals more difficult to achieve.

2. If Celtic is to build a better brand, it needs more money and exposure. What it gets in Scotland is a negligible amount of both. You get those from the CL. Our goal was to qualify. No one other than the player and some of their families, perhaps, know or care about Scottish football. CL qualifiers did not come too early; their date was known; when you consider Celtic’s finances (and level of play since), it is hard not to see this as a failure to prepare properly and in a timely manner.

3. If we do 1 and 2 properly, there is less cheating, and we can afford better players, surely that greatly increases the chances of 3.

The zombies cried ‘if we are liquidated, we will lose our club and our history. They were right, and we rightly derided them when they were liquidated but then came up with the lame ‘the company died, but the club survives’ nonsense.

Some of us said then that was nonsense. It was.

Some of us also said the Celtic were in on the scam, and would eventually accept their narrative. What I didn’t expect (although, I should have, as it was the logical outcome ) is that so many would adopt the ‘that was the company, not the team/club’ reasoning that we (rightly) scoffed at when the zombies tried it.

I used to read a Celtic blog whose aim was to shine a light on corruption and misinformation in Scottish football. Back in 2011 he guy that ran it wrote

“Watch the media coverage of these events carefully. If and when the decision time comes, the case to acquiesce to Rangers Newco’s demands will be overwhelming. Sincere ‘impartial’ observers will do their upmost to convince us all we must do whatever necessary to save Rangers for the good of the Scottish game. Some voices will even tell you Celtic need Rangers Newco. Whatever part of my club is dependent on Rangers I am willing to lose”

We all know what has happened since then. Hell, a year later, Dermott told us they didn’t die and in fact Scottish football “needed” Rangers …. in essence that Celtic (part of Scottish football) are dependent on Rangers. And Celtic’s actions since (or lack thereof) certainly confirmed DD’s position that Celtic believed that that were in fact dependent on Rangers.

I sometimes wonder about that chap, and his followers, and wonder if they know they lost their club at the same time the Huns lost theirs.

Awe Naw

MIT,

I am not agreeing with you today for disagreeing with me yesterday. Well if yer Maw can day it why no me !!

Awe Naw

QUIDS IN SPFL pay chief Neil Doncaster huge £91k performance bonus despite drop in revenue
David Fowler
13 Nov 2019, 9:22
NEIL DONCASTER has been paid a performance bonus of £91,000 for his role as SPFL chief executive.

The SPFL annual report and financial statement show he bagged a huge £388,000 salary, which has risen from £297,000 last year.

Doncaster has been rewarded with the 30% wage rise after securing a £160million Scottish Premiership broadcast deal with Sky Sports beginning in the 2020/21 season.

However, overall SPFL revenue dropped by 3% to £36.1m which is down to no Scottish teams competing in the Champions League group stage.

The former Norwich CEO has been in charge at the SPFL for 10 years and is the highest paid director.

According to the Daily Mail, a league source has backed the major bonus handed to Doncaster.

Peter Lawwell said: “Neil’s package reflects the ongoing and growing commercial success of the SPFL.

“The new broadcast contracts delivered just under 20 per cent more revenue to clubs.

“Crucially it also involves far fewer changes to kick off times, with the disrupted kick-offs down from 60 to 48 for non Glasgow derby games.

“Attendances over the last five years have gone from 2013/14 when the figures were 3.8 million to 4.5million now thanks to the new ticketing policy at Rangers.

“Per capita that gives Scotland the highest attendances in Europe.”

The SPFL report also confirmed plans are being put in place to replace key sponsors Ladbrokes, Betfred and Tunnock’s when deals finish at the end of this season who have clearly had enough.

Auldheid

TET

I had a model for support input and suggested a Membership Scheme.

When the SLO was appointed I had discussions that included the model but the Fans Forum was the route chosen.

It did not go as far as I thought was needed but it was a start. The CST to their credit put forward a Resolution to give shareholders/supporters more input to the decision making processes and after discussions before an AGM came to an agreement to drop the Res itself as Celtic seemed to be travelling in the same direction.

At this point all I can say without checking is that the direction turned out to have veered from what had been discussed. Hamilton Tim has that detail and can give a much more accurate narrative than I can.

The underlying point is that whilst Res12 was about making SFA accountable , football is self governing and the last thing the SFA, who are made up of member clubs including Celtic, do not want that nor do the clubs themselves.

Put it this way, had football been accountable in 2012 the 5 Way would not have been possible.

The Gombeen Man

If it were possible the Plc would inscribe the words Dafabet and Magners onto Brother Walfrid’s soutane as he sits with his back turned to the sickening aroma of soup from the Boardroom.

The failure to confront and profit from the corruption in our game makes the triumphalism of the Plc clickbait sites look as hideous as the stolen and plundered baubles in the Queen’s crown (swap that for Vatican at your discretion.)

Life is primarily about a search for truth. Without truth there is no integrity or hope.

That’s why no amount of spin, deflection or bluster will succeed.

There is just something missing from our domestic successes. There is a cuckold feeling. An uneasiness as though we are being cheated and to be perfectly frank…

Lied to.

Back to back CL failures, the loss of an outstanding coach. Sevco cheating their way to joint top. Recurrent recruitment failings, failure to invest the Brendan Rodgers CL money…

Until the Lawwell loyalists stop deflecting the victim will remain the honest punter (mug/addict).

The mug/addict who lives in denial and goes from week to week craving the dopamine rush that the bigoted game happily provides, at an increasing financial and social cost.

Best of luck Neil. Here’s hoping they don’t sell the spine of your team at the first opportunity.

HH

Auldheid
“Put it this way, had football been accountable in 2012 the 5 Way would not have been possible.”
And therein lies the problem.
I said the other day that I accepted that we are a stand alone club, no other club are willing to stand with us against the corruption, the cover ups, the shady agreements, from where I am sitting it’s as if the other clubs are the huns proxy and we are excluded, now if this is indeed the case, why are we not shouting from the rooftops, you guys gave the club the silver bullets, yet they are not using them, the game is entitled to honesty, integrity and at the very least a level playing field, it’s our right as supporters-customers if you like, we are being short changed big time, all for the filthy lucre from our custodians and the supremacist DNA of our detractors.
HH

lrishboy

MIT @ 12:13 pm
Hi there,I’m wondering if maybe you have your priorities in the wrong order,I’m sure the last time I checked a Scottish club has to win the premier league to qualify for the Champions League Qualifiers.
In which case,should you not transpose points 2 and 3.Hail Hail

BMCUW @ 7:16 am
SPOILER ALERT !
It was………………..Drum Roll……………………. Peter Lawwell…………..…..It always is.Hail Hail

fan-a-tic

I’m with Awe Naw.

fan-a-tic

“The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum — even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there’s free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.”
~ Noam Chomsky

The Gombeen Man

On another note Lee O’Connor starts for the top tomorrow at right back v New Zealand.

Awe Naw

TET,

because we cannot tell the faithful that we are the Old Firm … Why ? because they (our faithful) are far far too conflicted and stupid to come to that conclusion themselves. THAT’S SO FUCKING OBVIOUS ITS TRAGIC

since 1976 since we us old Firm kept the home gate money and every year since the slice of the pie got bigger for us old firm clubs and smaller for the “provincial clubs”

So Scottish football has a Daddy (Sevco) and a Mammy (Celtic) who feed them . clothe them, bathe them and have got well used to it and have nowhere to go.

When Daddy died the kids were disconsolate but Mammy immediately married Daddy´s step brother much to the weans delight

big packy

AWE NAW dinny forget whit that well known massive tim said, rangers are one of the great football teams.

Awe Naw

BP,

the streams of pish that I have read and heard from those Tims in ultimate denial attempting to explain away what the owner of Celtic actually meant are exactly the shady dumb fuckers that you need to be very careful of. It is exactly this type of obtuse and perverse thinking that left their kids exposed to predatory Catholic child molestors. They could not countenance it due to their own conflicted stupid thinking. Borderline evil being that willfully stupid

Awe Naw
That is by a country mile the best analogy that I have heard, I wish I had thought of that 😉
HH

big packy

ok ill hold my hands up, I agree with awe naw and tet, well that’s what mags told me to say.???

Awe Naw

BP,

Mags told you to agree with me .. Mmhhhhhh…..

Ok Lhads and Lhassies,

I am now off on holiday going to some place called Bonnie Scotland on Friday morning.

Will be mega busy for the rest of the day going to see The Waterboys tonight and then the rest of the time mundane stuff to follow. Washing , packing, tidying, booking, internet banking etc.

I might be able to catch some stuff later tonight or tomorrow afternoon.

Look after yourselves .. will read you lot CW 49

fan-a-tic

(Celtic: Enjoy our success or let corruption define it as meaningless?)
Why?
We could enjoy the success of the team triumphing over the corrupt environment that our board seem to be complicit in.
Triumph over adversity and corruption is a valid reason to celebrate.

big packy

AWE NAW, enjoy your wee break.hh.

Rebus67

SFTB,

You have stirred a hornet’s nest with your first article but I am glad you posted it.

My satisfaction with the team and its management is conditioned by what I used to see within my lifetime. We simply do not have players of the quality of Jinky, Wallace, McGrain, McNeil etc. The same is true for other clubs in Scotland. Kilmarnock had quality players like Snedden, McInally, McGrory….all capable of playing at international level. Dundee had Gilzean, Penman, Ure, Hamilton…again all international level players. Motherwell had St John and Pat Quinn and so it goes on. That depth of quality across the league has long gone to be replaced by loanees at the lesser clubs and journeymen foreign players. At Celtic we buy in quality rather than raise our own. Just look at the state of the national team! Yes, the SFA have mismanaged it, but where are the quality players?

The football world has moved on and Scotland has been left behind. Even modest European teams can knock off our Aberdeens, Hibs, Kilmarnocks nowadays. Product quality has declined drastically. Therein lies the basis for dissatisfaction. In my own case, this is fanned by a realisation that money now dominates world football and that this has forced Celtic into, at best, a tier two club. Other countries experienced dips in their standing in world football and took steps to correct that. The current SFA does not have the DNA to begin to address Scottish football’s dismal standing and that, in turn, affects Celtic because we can only prepare to beat what is put in front of us.

Rebus

Rebus67

Awe Naw,

Enjoy your trip to Scotia. I was there about ten days ago, admittedly under difficult family circumstances. What were my impressions? Firstly, the health system has declined drastically. To work in it must be a nightmare! Lots of people doing their best but hopelessly overwhelmed by the volume of work and poor systems.

Traffic is a nightmare in Glasgow. Simply getting a short distance takes too much time but people seem reconciled to it. Uber is a disease that needs treated!

Simply M&S are wonderful stores that make living in a hotel tolerable and less expensive. I even met Lenny in one of them!

Rising above everything, are the people…wonderful, wonderful people, friendly to a fault, and always willing to help. What an asset for the country…..pity it does not seem to be able to either realise that or use the potential.

There is history in almost every step that you take in Glasgow. The buildings on Castle Street on the way to the Royal Infirmary are both impressive and steeped in history,……..a history I did not appreciate when I lived there.

I have very little family left there now and soon there will be one less, so I see Glasgow through the eyes of a visitor now……..an informed visitor but still one that is passing through,

Rebus

JimmynotPaul

Rebus 3.02.
A simultaneously, lovely and haunting post.
You said previously that your brother is ready, hopefully that will make a difficult time for you, slightly easier to cope with.
Love to you and your immediate family.

JimmynotPaul

Rebus 3.02.
With regards Glasgow.
I work in the City Centre, the biggest difference for me, in the past 5 years, is homelessness.
It’s a sad walk,from the train station to work every morning.
My dealings with the health service are very mixed, The Beatson, when I was going there for treatment ,was outstanding. Until I was referred there, it was a hard slog and I had to really argue to be referred.
Believe it or not, I found out more about my illness from a Canadian Website, than anyone here, until a kind and knowledgeable Professor in The Beatson, helped me.
There was a very long 10 months, in between.

Awe Naw
Enjoy your holidays.
HH