When You Lie Down With Dogs…

Morning,all.

No surprises what today’s article is about. When Ryan Christie was charged,just a week ago,with grabbing Ugly Kid Joe by the goolies,we all laughed. With incredulity,not because we thought it was funny! That no action was taken against Kent-for his goal ‘celebration’-nor against Morelos for his dangerously inflammatory gestures as he went for an early rubdown with sandpaper just rubbed salt into the wounds.

Thankfully,our board were on hand to tell the world that they would vigorously defend this charge against our player. Which is just as well,eh? That lot would have been donning the black cap if they thought they could get away with it. Having said that,for him to even be charged in the first place was a travesty.

That he was found guilty and given a three game ban as a result? F..k me,that just beggars belief.

Once again the board were on hand right away with a statement on the issue. I won’t quote it in all its mealy-mouthed rhetoric that must have had the SFA pishing themselves doon the ludj. But it certainly scared the shit out of me! For if that is all they have to offer in defence of a blatant perversion of justice and attack on our club and one of its players,then we might as well shut up shop now.

I want a hard-nosed pugilist in our corner,ready to get down and dirty to win. Not some pansy ironing the white towels as he readies them for throwing into the ring. We have had plenty of examples even in the last few weeks of high profile figures in the game criticising our club,whether it be the board or the players or the fans. No action is ever taken against them for it,so what are our lot worried about? A disrepute charge? I’d wear it with pride if I was in their shoes,a badge of honour. Sure beats the white feather.

Rangers have had a go at our players and our fans. The Aberdeen chairman and their manager called Kris Ajer a cheat-try saying that to a referee on the pitch and see what happens to you-when Cosgrove went in on him like one of the eponymous rockets,and with just about the same amount of control. Ann Budge lied and dissembled about events at Tynecastle which could easily have caused tragedy,preferring to blame us rather than apologise for their failings. Actions taken by the SFA? None. Actions taken by us? Don’t make me laugh.

Some of you may correctly point out that things have always been this way in the Scottish game,that we have long been the target for treatment like this. And I will obviously agree with you on that. As recently as ten seasons ago,we were enduring The Season of Honest Mistakes-which is only known thus because it was by far the worst and most obvious one. The two on either side weren’t a lot better and there’s a case for the same to be said about every one of them before and since. That was the year when our Chairman,Dr John Reid,told the world that we had had enough,the back seat of the bus was not for us. That we weren’t looking for preferential treatment but that we would not accept being treated differently.

Now,there’s a call to arms if ever there was one! Got the blood coursing,it did. He was promptly booted out the door and replaced by a lickspittle nobody whose only public utterances of any note are to call his own club’s support racist and to tell us to behave ourselves.

There’s a template for disaster right there. And we are reaping it now,as Scottish football continues to treat us as expendable,unworthy and unwanted. We had the chance seven years ago,and on plenty of occasions since,to flex our muscles in the game. Our board,for reasons known only to a select few,blew it. They have treated the fans of the club shamefully on many occasions during this time so they’ll get no sympathy from me when the wider game treats them with a similar level of contempt.

But it doesn’t sort the problem. The problem is clearly that the game is rigged. That every means possible will be used to stop Celtic FC and if in the process it makes their pals on our board appear to be supine fools,so be it. Collateral damage in their opinion. The board have to open their eyes here. There is a war being waged,and we haven’t even bothered to mobilise. They have to fight fire with fire and get down and dirty,to do whatever it takes to win. No more Mr Nice Guy,no more appeasement. Just all out total war.

They can make a start by suggesting to the fans that it may not be in the best interests of the club to attend cup games and that the Home Cup Tickets Scheme will be suspended. Refuse to accept briefs for certain away games. Request that all our players no longer be considered for international duty at ALL levels.

Then phone The Four Resolutioners and ask them for their advice on how to blow the whole rotten edifice away. Just as a start,a warning shot across the bows.

Act like men,act like leaders,show the fans that you too have had enough. We won’t shrug and say-We told you so!-we will have your back. But only if you show us you deserve that.

At the moment you have got exactly what you deserve. When you lie down with dogs…

******

Above article by BMCUWP. As always we encourage our contributors to send us their thoughts for Article of the Day. We always publish so here is your own chance for a shot at glory! Mail it to Mahe

sentinelcelts@gmail.com

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BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

This is a long post,but it is well worth reading. Printed with his permission,it is AULDHEID’s statement at the AGM
*
1. Was just an opening attempt at a joke at BRTH’s loquacious expense.

2. First of all, can I congratulate the board and the club as a whole in winning a record treble treble, for securing continued European Football in the new year and for delivering a set of business results which many businesses, let alone football clubs, would envy.

3. Regrettably, however, I stand before the board and my fellow shareholders with the unenviable task of reminding everyone within this room of a real and present danger to the value of this club in footballing and commercial terms.

4. As a Scottish Football Club, Celtic can only play football, market its footballing brand, its famous shirt, this iconic stadium and the whole club’s unique, unbroken and remarkable history – if it abides by the rules and regulations of the Scottish Football Association – a body which is a Governing body, a mandatory trade association, a legislative authority, a licensing authority, and which, when necessary oversees and administers a judicial function.

5. Without membership of a properly functioning SFA this club cannot -simply cannot – play or trade.

6. In 2013, shareholders came before the board and requested that certain matters be referred by the board to UEFA – of which Celtic is a valued and key member – and which body entrusted the granting of licences and the enforcement of their rules in Scotland to the SFA.

7. Our position was that the SFA had failed in its licensing and administrative function, had failed to properly oversee the licensing process, and was so compromised that the situation demanded a referral to another body – we recommended UEFA – and still do.

8. In response, the board said that our resolution was not necessary but expressed sympathy with the matters raised and advised that it shared our concerns. We were also told that the board were in correspondence with the SFA about these same issues and concerns.

9. After various meetings, it was agreed to adjourn the resolution to allow matters to be properly pursued with the SFA rather than with UEFA leading to jibes on social media that the resolution had been kicked into the long grass

10. Long grass could perhaps be better described as a jungle – and I can assure everyone here that the modern SFA would not enjoy any length of time in what was Celtic’s Jungle.

11. Six years on, after maintaining that there was nothing to see, that nothing had been done wrong, that there was nothing to report to UEFA, that even if there had been something wrong they could do nothing about it because of time bar, and for all sorts of other reasons that have since proven to be either inaccurate, misconceived or to be just plain rubbish, we now find that we are in a truly remarkable situation whereby;

(a) The SFA ignored and rejected this board’s call for a full independent legal inquiry into what occurred over a number of years within Scottish Football – which call was also made by SPFL CEO Neil Doncaster. Neither the SPFL nor Celtic seem to carry sufficient weight with the SFA in this regard.

(b) Instead the SFA wrote to all clubs in 2017 and advised that they would carry out their own internal inquiry into the UEFA licensing process followed in 2011/2012.

(c) As a result of that inquiry the SFA determined that they had uncovered sufficient evidence to bring disciplinary charges alleging breaches of both SFA and UEFA rules – this many years after we had claimed that there had been such breaches and after many years of telling us and Celtic that there was nothing to investigate.

(d) In June 2018, a formal judicial panel appointed by the SFA to consider the evidence and determine the charges, formally reported that – THE SFA WERE NOT THE COMPETENT LEGAL BODY TO CONDUCT ANY HEARINGS OR MAKE ANY RULINGS ON THE CHARGES CONCERNED OR THEIR SUBJECT MATTER – WHICH IS PRECISELY WHAT WE AS SHAREHOLDERS ASKED THIS BOARD TO RECOGNISE SOME SIX YEARS AGO!

(e) Unbelievably, it would appear that, according to the judicial panel, in relation to this matter and for the only time in its entire history, or in the history of UEFA, The SFA has by way of a secret written contract agreed that it cannot legally conduct hearings or enforce the implementation of its own rules or the rules of UEFA within its own jurisdiction thereby creating a fissure in its own judicial

(f) Not only that, the three corporate officers who implemented this process, Messrs Reagan, MacKInlay and McGlennan, must all have known that the SFA had entered into this contract which plainly says they cannot conduct the disciplinary process which they implemented.

(g) All three officers have now left the building, bolted out the door, leaving behind an administrative and judicial mess of farcical proportions.

(h) However, that was fully 18 months ago. In the interim period SFA officers told this board that that there was no reason not to implement the judicial panel ruling which said that the charges should go to the Court of Arbitration for Sport. THEY TOLD YOU THAT SO THAT YOU WOULD TELL US AND SO WE WOULD WAIT AND WAIT AND WAIT FOR ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS EVENTUALY POSED AT LAST AGM AND STILL NOT ANSWERED.

(i) The current position is that Iain Maxwell SFA CEO made a public statement in mid-June saying that the SFA would not let the issue go on for ever, that it would come back to the SFA board in the not-too-distant future and that going to CAS was still under consideration.

(j) The latter is completely different to what they said would happen last AGM and how far into a not too distant future is 5 months?

(k) We are not at all sure what signal this sends out to everyone involved in Scottish Football , what degree of confidence they can have in a Judicial process cracked by a clause in the no longer secret 5 Way Agreement.

(l) As the board know, we have instructed solicitors and indeed have consulted counsel about this farcical administration and all correspondence from our lawyers to the SFA over an 18 month period costing around £11K have met with no response, continued obfuscation and deliberate and calculated delay in giving any sensible or coherent explanation.

And yet this board maintains that the matter should be left in the hands of this wholly dysfunctional corporate body who have no idea what they are doing or what they are legally entitled to do.

So I have to ask the board-ARE YOU CRAZY?
**
We know you have said that no other club or its directors want to take any interest in this or give support to any initiative which would see the judicial panel ruling implemented.

We have taken legal advice on this.

The SFA is a distinct and separate legal body.

It has a duty to its member clubs to implement its rules consistently, fairly and judicially.

All clubs trade on that basis.

It is against that background that they contract with their customers, arrange their finances, attract sponsorship and commercial support, and indeed in some cases offer their shares for sale on the stock market.

If the fundamental basis for applying the rules of football, the rules under which this club MUST trade – are not maintained – and more importantly are seen to be maintained – then all of that commercial and legal activity cannot be undertaking with safety.

So, we ask you to refer all of this to UEFA for the sake of the club both on and off the field.

To not do so, to continue your support for a wholly flawed process instigated by a legally and administratively flawed governing body amounts to a derogation of your corporate duty to us as shareholders.

Finally, in anticipation of you rejecting our plea, and anticipating your blind inexplicable continued support of a wholly useless Governing body, let me ask what this board will do if and when the SFA simply chose to bin the whole matter with a view to hiding their own corporate incompetence.

Will you undertake to refer this matter to UEFA at that point or will you look at Judicially reviewing the procedures and decisions of the SFA – SOMETHING THAT WE AS SHAREHOLDERS AND PART OWNERS OF THIS CLUB HAVE ALREADY STARTED TO EXAMINE JUST IN CASE YOU DON’T DO IT.

BUT IT SHOULD BE YOU WHO DO THAT

And finally will you explain, candidly and openly, to all shareholders, season ticket holders and every single fan by way of a club statement what your clear and unequivocal position is on these matters as soon as possible but by no later than MARCH 2020 prior to asking a single person to make any payment for a season ticket in respect of season 2020/2021 that they may purchase knowing The Board have complete confidence in an SFA whose judicial process is being operated with authority and without fear or favour?

Jock Stein once said football is nothing without fans is nothing.

THE EXECUTIVE OF THE SFA ALREADY TREAT FOOTBALL FANS WITH CONTEMPT AND THINK WE ARE DAFT AND CAN BE IGNORED.

PLEASE, FOR THE SAKE OF THE CLUB AND THE BUSINESS OF THE CLUB, DO NOT FALL INTO THE SAME TRAP.

WE WONT WEAR IT AND WILL HOLD YOU ACCOUNTABLE IF YOU DO.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

A moral dilemma which might be of interest to the board. Or not-I couldn’t possibly comment!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w3cswrl0

Libero

e) by gum, lads; “The SFA has by way of a secret written contract agreed that it cannot legally conduct hearings or enforce the implementation of its own rules or the rules of UEFA within its own jurisdiction thereby creating a fissure in its own judicial.”
Auldheid, if it’s a contract who are its signatories? It basically renders them corporately castrated, so surplus to any use.
? getting interesting now, this incompetence bizo Nice one BMCUWP !

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

LIBERO

Signatories include Regan and Longmuir,long since gone,plus Doncaster who is long overdue.

Also representatives of sevco and of oldco liquidators.

Personally I think there is a legal case for corporate malfeasance here,that people were using their positions to act with an authority which they did not possess. Unless of course,that authority was granted to them by,say in the case of Doncaster,the clubs themselves.

But that would be rank stupidity,of course. Given the past history of Rangers,they are trusting them to their word to abide by the rules? That would be like a golf club granting membership to a known thug,and telling him that it’s against the rules to use a baseball bat on the members while taking all their money. So jooost gonnae no’?

Except they overlooked the fact that the committee are all shit scared of him…

Thetic

The reading ion here is unbelievable so good in an informative way it’s just before midnight here I will have a lot of catchup reading to do when I get up
I hope Celtic take the gloves off and go to town
I will say back when they went tits up a lot of people were out a lot of money and also a lot lost their jobs . That’s the only sympathy I had at the time I am 70 this year and have grown to hate the games against them

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

THETIC

There’s a few of us hate the games against them. We should have insisted that rules on eligibility for a licence were adhered to in 2012. But as soon as Salmond mentioned civil disruption and that was echoed,with some assistance from Ogilvie,by Regan,that chance had gone.

The laws of the game were subverted to see that they were readmitted. And that has been a regular occurrence since. But still,we could put our faith in the law of the land.

Aye. Fat chance.

Really,it just beggars belief. No-one unfamiliar with Scotland could believe it possible.

big packy

BOBBY, great article once again, just to let you know, I would not let any of my dogs anywhere near the bassas.hh.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

BIGPACKY

Haha. I doubt they’d get fleas from your dogs. The other way round though,as you suggest.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

e-Tims should be fun today. Ralph has promised it will include an interview with Peter Lawwell. And if he doesn’t show up,he’ll just make it up!

Good lad,that.

Awe Naw

Whelan and Berra told to sling their hooks at the baby huns

I told you January was going to be interesting month .. Enjoy it as we will soon back to being anesthetized by the football

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

AWENAW

A dozen or so years ago,Gordon Strachan would have signed them!

jimthetim53

“Personally I think there is a legal case for corporate malfeasance here,that people were using their positions to act with an authority which they did not possess. Unless of course,that authority was granted to them by,say in the case of Doncaster,the clubs themselves. ”
————————————————–
Bobby, I started to read the rule book of the SFA several years ago. There is a ‘get out’ clause at the end of so many rules, along the lines of, ‘Or any other action deemed appropriate by the Board’

They can do what they like!

The ‘Rules’ are merely guidelines or a starting point.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

JIMTHETIM53

Ah,the oul’ rule book. As I used to say to a previous boss at my place the rule book doesn’t matter.

There’s is also the law of the land.

Oh,wait…

Mario Bertolini

excellent article on Celtic Star re: P Lawell on his inaction in supporting our players and team

I am not interested in the board whingeing about past misdemeanours against our players, this should have been raised at the time. For far too long our players have been assaulted and nothing done. I fact I would go as far as stating police action should have been enacted.

This needs to stop, once again I utter this phrase. If no other fan base is interested. Our fans should stop attending away games. before someone comes on and says we need the support for our team, TOUGH, hike we are at it stop the Ira songs, not needed, been,done,gone.

Mr Angry.

jimthetim53

After the Ryan Christie ruling the majority of Celtic supporters on ALL boards/sites have turned their fury on the Celtic board. Not so much on the CO of the SFA as you would expect?

In an other world, a more perfect world, few would have blinked at that decision on it’s own merit. But it’s the decision in context within this imperfect world. The lack of consistency. The history of the SFA and its dealings with Celtic and Rangers & Sevco.

A few posters on CQN are surprised that all the attention and anger is on the Celtic plc board and not the SFA With respect these posters just don’t get it. The mealy mouthed statement is just the latest pathetic response of Celtic which fires up an anger that has been building up for years. It’s a trigger. It’s not about Ryan Christie it’s much bigger than that.

If the Celtic board went quiet on the 5WA, LNS, EBTs, Res12, non stripping of Titles, the continuity myth etc etc who really thinks that statement is important? I don’t. But if it gives us a reason to fire another shot at the pathetic, cowardly, complicit Board of Celtic, so be it.

Moving on is not in our vocabulary, the Truth must be repeated every day no matter how much it annoys the suits at Hampden, Sevco, the media and especially DD & PL. History will be on our side.

Petain from Vichy France managed to avoid execution at the end of WW2 but he still died in disgrace. The history books tell us. He slept with the enemy.

Peter Petain.
(copyright MIT)

Mike in Toronto

When Gandhi wanted to end British tyranny in India, one of his tools was the Swadeshi movement – the boycott of British goods.

In 1959, the ANC called for an international boycott of South African goods. That was a key moment in the movement to end apartheid in that country.

The effectiveness of a boycott is why a Israel is so concerned about the BDS (boycott, divestment, sanctions).

I’m just saying ….

bada bing1

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tino_Kadewere

Seems we have bid about £6m for this guy

Oglach

A voice of dissent regards referring to PL as Pete Pétain.

Marshal of France Pétain (The Lion of Verdun) saviour of France during WW1. In 1940 France and Britain had been militarily defeated by Nazi Germany during the battle of France. The French government was in disarray with a real threat of mutiny in the French Army. Continued resistance to the German Blitzkrieg would have been at best a heroic futile gesture – of course Churchill wanted the French to continue to fight as it was in the British Empires interest even going as far to say. via an intermediary, that he would be forced to bomb French installations if France asked for an armistice with the Nazis. As we all know he carried out that threat at Mers-el-Kébir killing many French military personnel.

An Armistice was the best the French could have hoped for under the circumstances both the French and British armies had been routed and France’s erstwhile ally was retreating back to the UK as fast as they could. So the French capitulated, as had the Polish, Dutch, Belgian, Norwegian and Danish governments before them. Did Pétain and the Vichy government collaborate with the Nazis? Undoubtedly they did but then again so did many other subjugated nations. The nationals of some of these nations subsequently making up entire divisions of the Waffen SS, a little known fact being that the last defenders of the Reichstag during the battle of Berlin comprised of French, Dutch and Scandinavian SS personnel .

Anywho my point being to compare Pistol Pete to Pétain is somewhat erroneous given France was a defeated nation trying desperately to cling onto anything their conquerors would allow them. I would argue that of 2012 Pistol Pete and the Celtic board were in an equivalent position of Heinz Guderian and Franz Halder were in 1940 having swept all before them with the remnants of the defeated French enemy begging for an armistice under any terms. in 2012 Celtic were in a position of power and could and should have demanded a new model for Scottish football they didn’t. To continue to use a WW2 equivalent in order to demonstrate the magnitude of that mistake – well probably as big a blunder as the Nazis made at Stalingrad. (Of course assuming that PL and the boards priority wasn’t only personal gain and profit???)

I think we will need to search through the history books a wee bit longer to find a leader who, when In a position of power to facilitate and change things for the betterment of their subjects (Fans), knowingly allowed and allegedly wilfully colluded with their main enemy (rivals) allowing them, their rivals, to regain a position whereby they could threaten the power / dominance of their own entity just for their own personal gain? I can’t think of a historical comparison off hand – can you?

Discuss.

fan-a-tic

Great article BMCUWP.

fan-a-tic

Oglach
Brilliant!

jimthetim53

Oglach,
Peter Lawwell is not an exact replica of Petain, there is a bit of tongue in cheek going on there! However Petain was found guilty of treason regardless of the circumstances which prompted him. There were others like The Free French who risked life and limb to continue the fight against the enemy. Your final paragraph is pretty accurate all the same.

———————————–
“I think we will need to search through the history books a wee bit longer to find a leader who, when In a position of power to facilitate and change things for the betterment of their subjects (Fans), knowingly allowed and allegedly wilfully colluded with their main enemy (rivals) allowing them, their rivals, to regain a position whereby they could threaten the power / dominance of their own entity just for their own personal gain? ”
(Peter earned over £3m last year)

jimthetim53

Another thing overlooked re. Peter (Petain) Lawwell. How many years did he serve on the boards at Hampden?

What good did he do? What changed? How much influence did he exert?

We were still treated like shit. eg The Lanarkshire referees still reigned supreme.

Or did he just sleep with the enemy?

Mike in Toronto

oglach

You are right in suggesting that France was largely broken, which was why Petain was apppointed. And JtT is right in suggesting that I was taking some liberties.

But, as far as chants go, , ‘Glasgow Celtic, Yes! Vichy Celtic, No!’ rolls off the tongue a lot easier than ‘Glasgow Celtic’, Yes! “Formerly French Republic, but now called the French State, but really a collaborationist Regime’ Celtic” No’!

Which reminds me… who the F does PR for Celtic? Level 5?

🙂

jimthetim53

From what I remember the biggest influence the Celtic directors serving at Hampden had was to work in concert with their Rangers counterpart to achieve pre agreed outcomes in favour of The Old Firm. eg How gate money was ‘shared’.

Mike in Toronto

off to court lads … will check in later.

jimthetim53

Good open letter from Joe O’Rourke (CSA) to Maxwell at the SFA
http://www.thecsa.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=2050&p=6250

jimthetim53

Tom English is a soup taker.

Oglach

MIT / JTT

My ‘French letter’ (ooh err missus ) was very much tongue in cheek with it’s main intention to spark a bit of confabulation amongst the faithful.

Now how is this for a controversial take on what PL should be referred to.

How about Peter ‘Mick Collins’ Lawell. One time hero of the Rebs. Either extreme pragmatism or absolute power corrupted his revolutionary zeal and he ended up turning his guns on those who had walked the walked the walk with him. Divided communities a cause and people and in the end fought the enemies fight for them and helped establish a sectarian puppet state in the North casting aside hundreds of thousands of nationalists to suit his own agenda, allowed a right wing Catholic clergy dominated government in the Free state to take root and dominate the Republic for decades. The ramifications of his actions still effect Ireland today.

Peter ‘ Mick Collins’ Lawell and the Celtic Free state. Discuss

Controversial debates CSC

Mahe

Morning troops.
Great stuff as usual Bobby.

On the Frogs, ,
I recently researched their collapse when ze Nazis hit them. It was a collective disaster imo. Their faith in their super defensive structure that proved useless and an unwillingness to realise that the Ardennes could be used as an entryway into the country, combined with blitzkrieg tactics stunned them.
However we must realise the French underground did really try to help fair play to them.
On my wall hangs a very simple picture, painted by a friend in Portloise jail at the time who was since assassinated.
It shows two sturdy vessels flying the French tricolour bringing a battalion each to Irish shores to assist the cause of liberty from England.
In 1798 they sent 2k men to aid us, and we should never forget they at least tried.
At least they had a revolution and didn’t talk about action.
I have a relative died on those shores.
I don’t care for their language nor their food, but I maintain a healthy level of respect for the nation as a whole.
On their food, old Bonaparte knew well that an army marches on its stomach and brought as many good cooks as he could muster into the army to keep them well nourished.
Ps the wife went to a restaurant there that served your wine in a babies bottle as it was considered trendy!?
Vive le sacred blue!

Snail Snail

Mahe

Jim in my humble opinion that is not Joe O’Rourkes job.
He should be fully focused on the club and supporters relationship.
I reckon the Plc love it when his focus is elsewhere like Regan.
I wish the only letters he wrote where to the board and fans.
Or maybe he could look at what action is legally allowed by the Csa to help end the impasse.
Maybe start on a new rule book that allows them to take any actions necessary.
Call a boycott of the cups even.
He has misdirected his ire for too long.
And in situ too long imo.
Hail Hail

Auldheid

BMCUW

I lost the rag at a meeting with Celtic on Res12 a couple of years ago on being told PL had done everything he could on Res12.

‘He has done SFA effective’ was my reply.

Letter writing doesn’t cut it, it gives the appearance of support but it changes nothing.

I remember saying (perhaps same meeting) to the SLO that Celtic were facing a criminal organisation and needed to tool up.

They haven’t, which leads to the question why not?

Is it just part of a passive nature that comes from the CEO or is there more that prevents Celtic taking a more aggressive approach?

That question is being asked more and more with suspicions that the answers lie in the 5 Way Agreement, which Mr Lawwell denied sight of when a shareholder at the AGM posed the question had he seen it, but could he have agreed to it without seeing it?

It would be the greatest of ironies/misjudgements , if what was an understandable attempt commercially to retain 50k paying customers in the Scottish football industry, became an own goal because Celtic did not realise what end they were facing at kick off.

Oglach

Mahe

No one called the courage of the French resistance into question. Neither how the French had came to Ireland’s aid in time of war. The Williamite wars – the Irish / Jacobites only ally being the French. Indeed the French commander Marquis de St Ruth was killed at the battle of Aughrim. The Irish army and a small contingent of French troops stood against the combined forces of the Dutch, British and Scots armies all assembled in Ireland with the blessing of the Pope(Scotland / England still separate entities then). As you rightly point out Revolutionary France tried to aid the United Irishmen. France also owes Ireland a debt of gratitude for our ‘Wild Geese’ – The Irish Brigades in the Service of France. The battle of Fontenoy for example “Cuimhnigi ar Luimneach Cuimhnigiis ar fheill na Sasanach!” – “Remember Limerick and Saxon perfidy” where the Irish Brigade smashed the British ranks.
PS also meant to add there is a monument to the Irish Brigade at Culloden. The Irish in the service of France fighting alongside the Jacobites.

Auldheid

Just read Phil’s latest blog. An interesting speculation on the question why have Celtic not pursued Res12 based on the Lawwell/Bain e mail in 2011.

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/01/07/why-it-is-probably-too-late-to-grow-a-set-over-ryan-christie/#more-15152

Auldheid

Great article from The Celtic Star

You Did This

You, Mr Lawwell, the highest paid non playing employee in the entire history of Celtic Football Club. You. Did. This.

Your policy of Appeasement, of turning the other cheek, occasionally saying you are ‘surprised’ or ‘astonished’ and now ‘disappointed’ at the corrupt Scottish game that has of course made you a personal fortune.

You and those around you have demonstrated a remarkable lack of good faith in dealing with the concerns of the Celtic shareholders and supporters who have conducted a self-funded campaign on behalf of fairness and justice. You told the AGM in 2018 that the Res 12 guys were happy with the way you were dealing with their concerns and had to be corrected from the floor by Auldheid. That was misleading to say the least.

On Resolution 12, you finally surrendered at the last AGM back in November telling the shareholders that it was not in Celtic PLC’s best interest to pursue the matter. At that AGM you also told the meeting that you had never seen the 5 Way Agreement, a document that has significant impact on the way the game in Scotland is governed. You run Scotland’s biggest club, yet you claim to have never seen this crucial document.

Despite running a club that turns can turn over £100m in a year, you left it to the Celtic support to put their hands in their pockets to crowd fund the legal costs of pursuing the corruption. You also left it to the supporters to crowd fund the newspaper advertisement that outlined exactly the legal status of the new Rangers ahead of our first ever meeting in February 2015. An action that was deemed necessary because Celtic were saying nothing.

You allowed, perhaps encouraged Neil Doncaster to concoct a formula that transferred the honours won by the old Rangers – and don’t forget that some of these honours were won while the cheating was in full flow – to the new club that Charles Green formed in the summer of 2012 after the CVA had been rejected at Ibrox in June 2012.

You did nothing after the Supreme Court – the highest court in the land – ruled against Rangers in the matter of the Big Tax Case and you failed to make any meaningful move to challenge the hasty and flawed Lord Nimmo Smith finding that was of course all based on the premise that the Big Tax Case was lawful.

You failed to act when Nimmo Smith’s remit deliberately excluded the Wee Tax Case, which has been the focus of the Celtic fans self funded campaign but you believe is not in Celtic’s best interest.

You allowed them to chase people from positions of authority within the game – the non-exec director who had made a harmless football fans joke decades before in a trade magazine interview was chased out the door and you did nothing.

Over the last year you have failed to act as their players have physically assaulted our players on the field of play with apparent immunity from the Scottish FA, have threatened to murder Celtic Supporters and have branded Celtic Supporters racists despite the evidence this widely reported claim is based on is clear and obvious fake news.

You allowed a referee to rub our noses in it by drinking in a Rangers bar after his controversial and biased handling of the game at Ibrox in December 2018.

You did this. They know you are feeble. Their referees know you are weak. Their friends in the media have been emboldened and willing to resort to the dark arts of their profession to attack Celtic. They all know that you will never stand up to them. They are on the march and there’s a battle fever. They understand that a stand to you is simply the place where you complacently assume we’ll also fill to pay your multi-million bonus and salary.

Yesterday the Scottish FA simply confirmed your own personal humiliation as a Celtic leader unwilling to fight and therefore unfit to lead. Unless you are prepared to stand up for Celtic then it is clear that you time is up.

You have unquestionably done some great things at the club but that is increasingly becoming less relevant. Put it this way, today many would rather have a less commercially successful CEO who is willing to fight our corner than a great money maker who isn’t.

Let’s look at your statement released last night on the official Celtic website. Here’s what it says…

Celtic Football Club and Ryan Christie are extremely disappointed at the outcome of the hearing today.

Given the recent treatment of Celtic players and the lack of sanctions being imposed on those responsible, the fact that a sanction has been imposed on Ryan for the incident in question demonstrates a worrying lack of consistency in the Scottish FA fast track process.

Naturally, we will be contacting the Scottish FA regarding our concerns. Scottish football deserves a disciplinary process which is fair, consistent and fit for purpose.

‘Disappointed’ joins ‘Surprised’ and ‘Astonished’ it the words of feeble Celtic responses.

‘A worrying lack of consistency’ at the Scottish FA – this is only being noticed NOW?

‘Scottish football deserves a disciplinary process which is fair, consistent and fit for purpose’…yet it is unfair, inconsistent and unfit for purpose and who is to blame for that?

You allowed this to happen. You said nothing with Alasdair Johnston this week attacked the Celtic Support for believing the facts surrounding the liquidation of Rangers FC in 2012. You have failed Celtic. All we want is a fair and honest game. Today it is clear that this is not the case.

You did this. It’s time to fight back or it’s time to go.

Michael Thomas

Great leader article fair-play. Just hope someday we can get Justice ( Res 12 ) and a level playing field. Lawwell Out !!!!!!!

Mahe

Oglach,
I know you and others weren’t questioning their hearts. Was just stating my thoughts on the matter at hand. Didn’t like the ones I worked with in the main ironically as I have a bit of time for them.
Don’t like their food. You put the fried egg in the sandwich mon amie, not on top.
They’ve made a few great flicks btw.
District 13
La Heine
Special Forces

Hail Hail

Mahe

Jim what is the best day for the quiz? When you think we throw it up?

JimmynotPaul

Good stuff Mick and nice to get some recognition.
This was from Joe McHugh of Videocelts on Twitter.
Make this your essential lunchtime read. No tea and biscuits with these bhoys.
Below there was a link to your article today, obviously no need to repost the link.

Billy Bhoy

Lawwell was probably being completely truthful when he said ” that it was not in Celtic PLC’s best interest to pursue the matter.”
What he didn’t say was “that it was not in Celtic FC’s best interest to pursue the matter.
It’s obviously one of those pesky occasions when the needs of the “Football wing of the Co” (c) Dermot Desmond get in the road of PLC money making activity.
Sometimes these events dovetail nicely. Like, when WGS won 3 in a row DD was able to happily report that ” Gordon has done very well both off and on the Balance Sheet”. We maybe missed a wee warning sign there.
It’s when they don’t dovetail that the fitba teams needs just get railroaded.

This ST holder is watching the PLC very closely. I’m getting very close to the end of my tether.

big packy

EVENING ALL, this French stuff reminds me of my third year at st augustines in Coatbridge, the French teacher mr brennan gave everyone in the class 2 of the belt for getting a big fat zero in the French exam, I got a lubbly jubbly 40 out of a hundred, so I was well pleased, by the way the teachers first name was martin, and paul67, his father is martin brennan, ive often wondered?

jimthetim53

Mahe, I’m too feart to answer that. The only thing I would say it needs to be hyped up a bit beforehand.

jimthetim53

Mahe

jimthetim53

Mahe, How did the wee one’s first day at school go? It will be a memorable day for her I think.

jimthetim53

Mike in Toronto

Oglach

Re: Michael Collins

I was always brought up to understand that Collins and Griffiths were slected to go and negotiate a treaty, where, unless a full republic was granted (which was never going to happen), those who negotiated it, would be seen as failures. I understood that Collins did not want to go to England to negotiate the treaty, but that he was ordered to go by DeValera, and so, as a soldier, obeyed an order, knowing that he was on a hiding to nothing. I am not the only one who has questioned whether DeValera was concerned about whether Collins would prove a threat to DeValera’s power, and so, this was done to marginalize Collins.

But, I know there are lots on here who are much more learned about Irish history than i, yourself being one of them, so am always open to being corrected/educated.

Like what has happened with Vichy Celtic, there are many different, often competing, versions of what happened, and why…. and all of them true.

Plebs like you and I will likelyl never really find out what happened. so, we have to go on what we know, and make decisions that we can live with.

Unlike Michael Collins, I dont think my life will depend on my views on the Board…. although there are a few zealots on the other site, so I might have to sleep with one eye open for a few days.

🙂

jimthetim53

I’ll say this for Michael Collins, he did more for Ireland to get them to the point where they could even negotiate with Britain, than de Valera ever did.

jimthetim53

Packy I’d happily have given all our rain to Australia today. I’m not being flippant, we moan about rain but I’d rather be in Scotland today than many parts of Australia. God Bless them and help them.

big packy

JIM, yes agree, them poor people and animals, god bless them.

big packy

Great article from The Celtic Star

You Did This

You, Mr Lawwell, the highest paid non playing employee in the entire history of Celtic Football Club. You. Did. This.

Your policy of Appeasement, of turning the other cheek, occasionally saying you are ‘surprised’ or ‘astonished’ and now ‘disappointed’ at the corrupt Scottish game that has of course made you a personal fortune.

You and those around you have demonstrated a remarkable lack of good faith in dealing with the concerns of the Celtic shareholders and supporters who have conducted a self-funded campaign on behalf of fairness and justice. You told the AGM in 2018 that the Res 12 guys were happy with the way you were dealing with their concerns and had to be corrected from the floor by Auldheid. That was misleading to say the least.

On Resolution 12, you finally surrendered at the last AGM back in November telling the shareholders that it was not in Celtic PLC’s best interest to pursue the matter. At that AGM you also told the meeting that you had never seen the 5 Way Agreement, a document that has significant impact on the way the game in Scotland is governed. You run Scotland’s biggest club, yet you claim to have never seen this crucial document.

Despite running a club that turns can turn over £100m in a year, you left it to the Celtic support to put their hands in their pockets to crowd fund the legal costs of pursuing the corruption. You also left it to the supporters to crowd fund the newspaper advertisement that outlined exactly the legal status of the new Rangers ahead of our first ever meeting in February 2015. An action that was deemed necessary because Celtic were saying nothing.

You allowed, perhaps encouraged Neil Doncaster to concoct a formula that transferred the honours won by the old Rangers – and don’t forget that some of these honours were won while the cheating was in full flow – to the new club that Charles Green formed in the summer of 2012 after the CVA had been rejected at Ibrox in June 2012.

You did nothing after the Supreme Court – the highest court in the land – ruled against Rangers in the matter of the Big Tax Case and you failed to make any meaningful move to challenge the hasty and flawed Lord Nimmo Smith finding that was of course all based on the premise that the Big Tax Case was lawful.

You failed to act when Nimmo Smith’s remit deliberately excluded the Wee Tax Case, which has been the focus of the Celtic fans self funded campaign but you believe is not in Celtic’s best interest.

You allowed them to chase people from positions of authority within the game – the non-exec director who had made a harmless football fans joke decades before in a trade magazine interview was chased out the door and you did nothing.

Over the last year you have failed to act as their players have physically assaulted our players on the field of play with apparent immunity from the Scottish FA, have threatened to murder Celtic Supporters and have branded Celtic Supporters racists despite the evidence this widely reported claim is based on is clear and obvious fake news.

You allowed a referee to rub our noses in it by drinking in a Rangers bar after his controversial and biased handling of the game at Ibrox in December 2018.

You did this. They know you are feeble. Their referees know you are weak. Their friends in the media have been emboldened and willing to resort to the dark arts of their profession to attack Celtic. They all know that you will never stand up to them. They are on the march and there’s a battle fever. They understand that a stand to you is simply the place where you complacently assume we’ll also fill to pay your multi-million bonus and salary.

Yesterday the Scottish FA simply confirmed your own personal humiliation as a Celtic leader unwilling to fight and therefore unfit to lead. Unless you are prepared to stand up for Celtic then it is clear that you time is up.

You have unquestionably done some great things at the club but that is increasingly becoming less relevant. Put it this way, today many would rather have a less commercially successful CEO who is willing to fight our corner than a great money maker who isn’t.

Let’s look at your statement released last night on the official Celtic website. Here’s what it says…

Celtic Football Club and Ryan Christie are extremely disappointed at the outcome of the hearing today.

Given the recent treatment of Celtic players and the lack of sanctions being imposed on those responsible, the fact that a sanction has been imposed on Ryan for the incident in question demonstrates a worrying lack of consistency in the Scottish FA fast track process.

Naturally, we will be contacting the Scottish FA regarding our concerns. Scottish football deserves a disciplinary process which is fair, consistent and fit for purpose.

‘Disappointed’ joins ‘Surprised’ and ‘Astonished’ it the words of feeble Celtic responses.

‘A worrying lack of consistency’ at the Scottish FA – this is only being noticed NOW?

‘Scottish football deserves a disciplinary process which is fair, consistent and fit for purpose’…yet it is unfair, inconsistent and unfit for purpose and who is to blame for that?

You allowed this to happen. You said nothing with Alasdair Johnston this week attacked the Celtic Support for believing the facts surrounding the liquidation of Rangers FC in 2012. You have failed Celtic. All we want is a fair and honest game. Today it is clear that this is not the case.

You did this. It’s time to fight back or it’s time to go.

Oglach

Mike in Toronto
Re: Michael Collins
====
All I can say is in my dad’s wee home in Belfast there were 2 portraits that took pride of place, above that of family even. One of James Connolly and the other of Cathal Brugha.
One, Connolly, would have never agreed to the treaty
“If you remove the English Army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle., unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts will be in vain. England will still rule you. She would rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.”
The other, Brugha, died defending the Republic and the ideals that the men and women of 1916 and the subsequent war of independence fought for. He was killed by Free state troops.
I grew up in a staunchly republican family where neither Collins or De Valera were well thought of. TBH my maternal grandfather, a veteran of the war of Independence, really disliked them both more so Collins, somewhat strange for a man from the same region as Mick Collins.
De Valera was a politician 1st and foremost and Collins a brilliant strategist and organiser. The debate as to who was responsible for sending who where and why will continue for years to come. Perhaps Dev knew that a 32 county independent Ireland was not possible – hence Collins and Griffiths being sent to London. Irrespective Collins after the narrow victory for the pro treaty side in the dail vote turned against his former comrades – the majority of the IRA the men and women who had fought the British being anti treaty. He, Collins, borrowed weapons from the English and turned them on his former comrades, he willingly abandoned his country men in the North of the Ireland. As I mentioned previously was it pragmatism in regards of what could be achieved or corrupted by power- who knows.

My own personal hero from that period, out with James Connolly, is Ernie O’Malley who fought with the IRA during the war of Independence and who also fought against Collins and the Free state during the Civil war. He wrote some of the best books on the period ‘On Another Man’s Wound’, a memoir of the War of Independence, and ‘The Singing Flame’, an account of his involvement in the Civil War.

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