Your Silent Face
Morning,all. Another powerful GUEST ARTICLE for you this morning.
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I originally entitled this ‘Power, Corruption and Lies’ after New Order’s second LP but had second thoughts on completion,and thought the first track on Side 2 was more relevant….
After taking the moral high ground again in retaliation against the Morelos Racism claims of the 29th Dec, I was gutted to hear of the arrest and charge of a suspect…until I heard the finer details, of which to be fair, there were few.
This from the Police Scotland website;
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Boy charged in connection with racist chants, Glasgow
Published 10 February 2020
Police Scotland can confirm that a 12-year-old boy has been charged and reported in relation to racist chants directed at a Rangers player at the Celtic v Rangers SPFL match on Sunday, 29 December, 2019.
Superintendent Mark Sutherland, of Greater Glasgow Division: “Abuse of any form is completely unacceptable and Police Scotland will continue to rigorously investigate any reports of abuse we receive and bring those responsible before the relevant authorities.
“We’d remind the public that, as the person charged is below the age of 18, he cannot be named or identified for legal reasons as per the Criminal Procedure (Scotland) Act 1995.”
**
We’ve read plenty about this, from the Red Tops to the Broadsheets to the blogs so we’re all very aware of the difference of opinion on the situation. Everyone appears to be singing from the same song sheet regarding the alleged crime…we all agree it is disgusting and there is no place for it in any modern society.
Most of the articles I’ve read have been about the timing of the news release or the supposed Season Ticket holders who informed the authorities or the Press release by The Rangers or their fan group Club 1872 or even our own bloggers and posters who subscribe to the stories of the Unseen Hand playing a vital role in proceedings but what really piqued my interest was the actual story. Not the reportage that exploded immediately on its release but the actual story itself.
Real/Unreal:
I am not convinced this is real, it might well be but I am not yet convinced. There is no information at all contained in the Police Scotland statement which allows us to come to any opinion as to the veracity of how the charge was arrived at and on that basis I suppose we must accept it as truth. Although the fact there is very little detail should lead us to ask why that should be the case.
Grasses/Model Citizens:
Did two adult season ticket holders at Celtic Park actually report a juvenile to the Police for this action? Although Paul67 has a moral point that we should all agree with I think it is an extremely unlikely course of action for TWO adults to take. Surely one, at least, would take a temperate attitude that ‘He’s only a daft boy! You can’t report him, mate! How would you feel if it was your boy?’ And, in the event of a disagreement one manages to convince the other it’s the right thing to do? No way! I like to think I have high moral standards but it would have to be absolutely exceptional circumstances for me to report a 12 year old boy to the police at a fitba match. If that part is true these two adults really need to have along hard look at themselves. It just doesn’t ring true for me.
Too Much Too Young:
It is also convenient that the boy, if he exists, is of an age where he can be charged but not identified. He is at a criminally-convenient age, in this case, whereby he can be charged and convicted of a serious crime but in the child’s interest he can never be named…and none of the parties involved can ever disclose what if anything actually happened. I don’t think we’ll never know the truth. This gives Police Scotland a ready-made reason to withhold information if, of course that information exists.
Six Weeks and One Day:
The next thing was the timing of the whole incident, from it being reported after the match to the Police Scotland press release of the charge. The match was played on Dec 29th, the news of the charge was released on Feb 10th. FORTY THREE DAYS! Really? Did it take that long? Is that a reasonable amount of time to take, is it worth requesting a Freedom Of Information to ascertain police man hours spent on this incident! It doesn’t stack up for me.
Why:
If we knew the WHY of this case we would surely be on our way to solving the wider issues facing this divided little country. Why would Police Scotland invest so much time and effort on this to finally come up with ONE 12 YEAR OLD BOY. Seriously! If there is truth in this story, and if the boy is guilty then you could argue it is worth it. It would be one more step towards a racism-free society. A hard lesson learned for a boy who is still too daft to really understand the world. And here comes another but, BUT how much time do Police Scotland spend pursuing the ABSOLUTELY BLATANT SECTARIAN SHIT that flows out of Ibrox EVERY match day and at the grounds around the country that have the misfortune to host this lot!
I don’t believe a fucking word of this trumped up charge. Excuse my French, please!
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Your Silent Face
A thought that never changes
Remains a stupid lie
It’s never been quite the same
No hearing or breathing
No movement, no colors
Just silence
Rise and fall of shame
A search that shall remain
We asked you what you’d seen
You said you didn’t care
Sound formed in a vacuum
May seem a waste of time
It’s always been just the same
No hearing or breathing
No movement no lyrics
Just nothing
The sign that leads the way
The path we can not take
You’ve caught me at a bad time
So why don’t you piss off
******
Above article gratefully received from McCAFF. We always publish the contributions of our members for Article of the Day,and it can be your turn next! Mail it to Mahe
sentinelcelts@gmail.com
McCAFF
A very thought-provoking article. The charge levelled against the young lad has thrown many of us into a real quandary,tying us up in moral knots. How can we condemn racism and call for a zero-tolerance approach on the one hand,but condemn the police for acting on information received from two members of the public,then charging someone with the offence?
Would we be asking the same if the lad had been a Rangers fan of the same age,and done for hurling that abuse at Eddy?
In my case,I believe I would. I think 12yo is far too young to have your life ruined in this way. A criminal charge is neither appropriate nor proportionate. Rehabilitation and education would be my preferred choice here,short of the proverbial good kick up the arse. He needs to be shown that racism is wrong,not have his life ruined and store up resentment as a result.
Ironically,if found guilty,the bench will probably refer him for exactly such rehabilitation and education. Problem is that he will still have that criminal record on top.
McCaff
Absolutely bang on the money. It didn’t fkn happen.
As soon as Traynor was caught spreading lies through that Sky broadcast, almost the whole of Scotland circled the wagons. 6 weeks on we get fed this shite.
Rangers’ statement was equally unbelievable and they should’ve been slaughtered for it, yet outside of Graham Speirs? Nothing.
To try and deflect from their lie, the best they can come up with is this bull? A 12 year old?( His voice must’ve broken early to be heard above the raucous atmosphere at an old firm game!) Did Morelos hear it by the way? This racist comment? Or was it just the 2 fine upstanding Celtic supporters who reported it?
Let’s say it happened? Would the boy plead guilty or innocent? If he denied it, will the police not be obliged to request statements from the seat holders all around the area the boy was located? Surely? In the interests of a fair hearing? Who else heard it?
Who are these 2 well meaning upstanding supporters? Don’t you think by now someone that knows them would’ve commented and their identities known?
They’ve both clearly got a conscience right? Must have? To report a 12 year old boy?
Someone would know these 2 supporters.
If any or both of them want to do yet more ‘good’ then identify yourselves and come on this blog , explain your reasoning, take a few questions, and I’ll give a sizeable donation to a charity of your choosing. I’m sure many others who would love to talk with you would do likewise.
Unless of course you don’t exist?
TWISTSNTURNS
As I said yesterday morning,the police statement arrived at a suspiciously opportune moment for Traynor,who was under serious fire from various sides at the time. Once again,he has wriggled out of it. Although I remain hopeful that his statement on the subject is ruled to be in contempt of court.
In addition:
Is there a police force anywhere in the UK outside of Scotland’s finest that would press charges against a 12 year old? Wouldn’t a parent just get a visit to inform them of the need to have a word with their child re the rights and wrongs of the alleged behaviour?
Final point before I need to get on the road:
“ Finally, Rangers would be more than happy to accommodate the young person involved in this latest incident on one of our courses designed to help people understand why racist and sectarian abuse is unacceptable”
When was the last of these courses? When is the next one? Anyone know??
Bobby
I think I’m correct in saying Traynor didn’t put his name to the statement? Is that correct? If so I’m sure he’ll deny responsibility for it.
TWISTSNTURNS
The courses are mainly a sing song.
As for the statements released by Rangers,they are never signed off by Rangers employees,directors or consultants. But even Clouseau-or Inch High Private Eye!-could figure out who is responsible for them.
Oh dear. I do so hope that this is true!
https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2020/02/12/a-begrudged-communique-from-a-novelist-about-a-guru-in-trouble/#more-15588
Bang on the money, McCaff! Btw, loved the New Order reference ..One of my fav songs too ?
Let’s get back to laughing at these pathetic c@nts and their lies.
Dave King: “Crime is absolutely out of control in SA. It’s a pandemic” ??
You must get an irony bypass the minute you step foot in Edminston dr
Again, i’d be willing to bet everything I have, that no 12yo abuser actually exists.
Our club should release a long statement detailing what it has been like having to play against them for over a century. Tell the world of their atrocious behaviour… the stabbings and slashings, the murders, everything! Lay it all out for the whole world to see. Why won’t they do that? Well, that’s the million dollar question, isn’t it?I
As my dad used to say about Celtic:
“It’s like trying to play with your hands tied, and one leg tied up behind your ass”. ?
He definitely had a way with words!
https://youtu.be/EmS25xbk4xk – v Sporting Lisbon. Still one of my favourite games
BIGAUDIODYNAMITE
We occasionally do series articles during the close season or international breaks,topics such as favourite players or games. I did one on the Sporting Lisbon match. What a night,the first time I think I’ve ever been delighted at the team in green and white hoops being dismantled.
Btw,I very much doubt that there isn’t a current case against a 12yo for racial abuse of Morelos.
We need to be careful here.
It is all very well to criticise Police Scotland for how they have dealt with this-heavy handed,to say the least-and even justifiable to question the timing of it. But not the veracity,that the charge has been levelled against a 12yo child.
I have no doubt that this part at least is true.
Why would the Polis even bring two Celtic ST holders into it. They could stitch it up all by themselves as they always do if they really wanted to. In my book it was the polis doing the hun fraternity a favour due to the heat the huns are now getting from Sky.
AWENAW
As a Machiavellian thought,since the allegations were made to the police immediately after the game,is it outside the realms of possibility that a copper in the know contacted Traynor about it?
And was asked to stall the investigation till the time was right for The Great Reveal?
BMCUWP @10.18
You are right, hence my comments as to whether it is Real/Unreal! But it stinks of fabrication and is so subtly designed as to protect ALL concerned, Police Scotland, The Rangers, the 12 yr old boy if he exists, the 2 season ticket holders if they exist but also fulfil the need to attempt to bring a conclusion to the investigation into the alleged racism which was allegedly vented at Morelos at the December game. It’s a load of codswallop and we know it, they know it, everybody knows it.
A quick question to the forum…I can’t find ANY mention of 2 season ticket holders anywhere in any Police Scotland statement so where did this information come from?
It is regretful that a 12-year-old Celtic supporter has (allegedly) behaved in this manner, but it was a season ticket holder sitting nearby who reported him – for this, we can be pleased. That the act is so rare we report it, is a great thing. We should continue to act in the right manner if something similar happens again. Rise above those living in the gutter and continue to set standards as Celtic supporters.
Paul67
Awe Naw
To be completely honest, Paul67’s comments require a moral standing that I don’t think too many people would dispaly IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES of the 29th Dec or it’s aftermath. In our everyday business I think we’d all like to think we would act in the very best interests of society as a whole but in practice we should all admit to not quite managing it. I can’t believe 2 adults would IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES do what has been reported.
I sit in Block 404 at CP and recently, this season or last I can’t quite remember, but an older guy in the row behind me, about 4 seats along, shouted to an opposition player ‘Away back to the jungle’. I was disgusted but didn’t say anything. I still wish I had.
Also,in one of the mock up vids with translations while Morelos is leaving the pitch and making his gestures,there’s one guy clearly seen mouthing obscenities towards him.
If I’d been there,I would probably have being doing similar,tbh. But there is a conflicting narrative over whether he was prefacing the word bastard with black or ya.
Our support aren’t lilywhite,guys. We all know that. And sometimes we get caught up in the heat of the moment. It isn’t too difficult to imagine that there was abuse hurled at Morelos that day. It also isn’t too difficult to imagine that anyone who did was put in his place PDQ.
Our moral high ground,such as it is,isn’t that none of our fans are wankers. It is that we put the wankers straight as soon as they step out of line.
About thirty years ago,I came up for a fortnight from London,and drove my Dad and my teenage ATHINGOFBEAUTY sis to Paisley. There was a fella wi a wee lad on his shoulder beside us,and the foul mouthed abuse he was giving out was honestly the worst I can remember.
My Dad was raging,but as I pointed out,my sis wasn’t really learning any new words. If the guy didn’t have his lad on his shoulders,I might have taken a different approach. We just decided to move at half time.
Long before that,a fella came down and said-haw,mate. We’ve had a whip-round to get you to shut up. But we decided to tell you to fuck off instead.
I reckon that’s what you call self-policing.
Phil Mac´s piece about Jabba I would suggest is even more speculative than I normally am. If that were to happen then … some well kent peeples faces will be out of a job … McIntyre at the BBC .. Sutherland at the Polis … Whomever at Sky etc. Not happening.
McCaff,
paul67 hinted at this outcome around two weeks ago .. so it has been in the pipeline for a while
Where is paul67 getting his information .. from Celtic
Q) Why is all this shit happening ?
A) Sky do not want their 160M new TV contract which starts in 14 weeks to begin with a liquidated Rangers
AWENAW,McCAFF
This is the problem we are facing,as I mentioned above and a few times earlier. PAUL67 took pelters on his site for his view of events,and I’m not going to criticise another blogger for opinions which he is brave enough to put on record.
But is he wrong?
I think he is absolutely correct that we should be proud that we condemn racism when we see it. Now,there’s the bigger question. How do you deal with it? You and I would have told the wee fella to behave,had a word with his Dad or whoever.
Actually,I find it disturbing that one of the gentlemen involved was an off-duty policeman.
There was clearly an incident which he,as a member of the public,felt worth investigating. And duly reported it. And fortythree days later,gets a result against a 12yo boy.
I couldn’t tell you how many times my elderly parents-and many like them in their wee paradise-have been broken into. Not much investigation,and likely not even fortythree days.
What’s more frightening? Being racially abused by people behind a barrier,or having your home ransacked?
I think they need to get their priorities right.
That´s Dave King been robbed again and the same laptop that was stolen last week has been stolen from him again. It is a special type of laptop. It´s called a homing laptop. He is now having to “borrow” – the poor guy – somebody else’s laptop he “can´t even read his emails” – which is bloody unfortunate when you are trying to raise 35m quids worth of external finance
Aw Naw
Agree ref the lackeys getting their comeuppance, I actually believe McIntyre et al are actually worse than Jabba, gutless, spineless individuals. The other outcome I would like to see is the end of the EBT brigade. It is disgusting that they are pandered to.
BMCUWP
I just can’t get my head round it. There are toomany aspects which defy ordinary everyday expected behaviours. I repeat that we’d all like to be the good guy but sometimes you need to stop and think about the consequences…daubing in a 12 yr old boy would fall into that category for me. Report him to the Polis!? I cant’ see it!
BMCUWP,
When was it initially reported ? FUCKING CRUCIAL
The first warning I got on CQN was when I made an allergy about the Celtic support that anyone who shares the “complainant mindset” it was a similar situation is the same person who would chastise his daughters bad language while she was getting gang raped .This is a thought process that the PLC want to actively discourage – damaging to the Old Firm brand
AWENAW
In fairness,I would reckon most people would be allergic to gang rape.
McCAFF
You and I wouldn’t do it,but someone did. They can live with their conscience,I’ll live with mine.
There is absolutely no moral high ground or stance here.
We are talking about the prosecution of a 12 year old child. If morals and right and wrong are being discussed how about living in a country / society where a 12 year old child can be charged with a serious offense that is for shouting something during a game of football. Least we forget in the modern all inclusive Scotland the age of criminal responsibility was only raised from 8 to 12 only 2 years ago. In most Western European states the Age of criminal responsibility starts in the teens, even in Russian and China it is 14. No we still live in some weird Dickensian state that charges and prosecutes children for, allegedly, shouting a racial slur at a player during a hate fuelled game of football where huge swaths of the support in attendance were shouting and singing obscenities and racially motivated ditties at each other for the entirety of the game. No we single out a child for societal retribution. That in itself is a damming indictment on Scottish Society
Me I look forward to the Celtic support giving the 2 upstanding members of society a standing ovation the next time they take their seats at Paradise for their stance against intolerance and bigotry in the middle of a Glasgow derby – what a fine example of citizenship they are, absolute role models.No doubt there will be signed framed photos of the Moral crusaders on sale in the club shop soon along side the pantheon of Celtic hero’s
Mc Caff,
A fine read this morning.
Superintendent Sutherland’s statement is concerning.
“Has been arrested.”
When? Were the child’s details taken at the match and was he arrested subsequently?
If so. Why? Is there this standard practice? Is there any unusual factor in the treatment of this child?
“Racist chants.”
What do Police Scotland mean by this? Does it refer to nationality, colour? What specifically is the alleged statement/chant?
Given the adverse publicity generated by Superintendent Sutherland’s statement.What measures have been taken to protect this child?
Reading the statement (reference to live investigation) issued on behalf of Rangers. How were they briefed in relation to this investigation? What was their input? Who at Rangers was communicated with? Where are the notes of any discussions? Has the identity of the child been disclosed?
Rangers refer to racist and sectarian abuse directed against Morales. What exactly are we alleging here?
McCaff a great read…
I remember looking into the murky foundations of Club 1872 and the resignations of all Directors apart from James Blair, who now acts as Secretary at Ibrox.
Forensic accounts would have a field day with the contorted origins of Club 1872.
This is the same Mr Blair that Lord Persey described as being “unconvincing” in his evidence and “untruthful” in his dealings at the time.” (Sports Direct case).
Anyway, another statement aimed at appeasing the anguish of the Sevco support by directing their anger at Celtic and a 12 year old child.
These statements are also an attempt to shore up the depreciating value of Mr Morelos. Don’t forget Dave King’s statement at the AGM about his formula for forecasting the increasing value of the Sevco playing staff.
Don’t forget too Mr King’s promise to depart by the end of last month.
The generous investors at Club 1872 might be distracted for a while. Maybe the blue noise coming out of Ibrox heralds a distress call for more cash?
Rangers and Club 1872 appear to have prejudiced the Crown’s case against the 12 year old child. Their actions have also placed the child under undue and significant stress.
Police Scotland will no doubt be disappointed that their painstaking investigation has been compromised by the interfence from Ibrox.
The offensive and inflammatory/dangerous statement is still on the club website.
Rangers have set very high standards for their support. Let’s hope the support don’t let them down.
Gonna have to love you and leave you,guys. Working about thirty out of the next fortytwo hours. Life’s a breeze after that,except that I’m moving a disabled friend’s house contents to a new sheltered accommodation on Saturday.
During a worse storm than last weekend.
What can you do,its £500 or ask Mick,the man with the van.
Btw,I’m not looking for plaudits for this,I’ve done it for years for people,and I’m fine with it. Happy to do it. But I reckon this could need some serious waterproofs!
Spoke to a pal last night, who is a PF,he said a 12 year old, could appear in court, depending on the type and nature of what was allegedly said.
Just recieved a message saying, the 12 year old was arrested for breaching the Communications Act 2003,in relation to a video on social media ,and not a direct charge of racism against the boy.Not sure how true this is,or indeed if the boy was actually at the game.
Bada Bing
I guess that would fall under ‘ Sending a malicious communication using social media.’
The same law used to prosecute the guy who posted a clip of his dog raising it’s paw in a Nazi salute every time it heard ‘Sieg Heil’ The guy was found guilty of being “grossly offensive” . He was fined £800 at Airdrie Sheriff Court on 23 April 2018.
Either that or he is a streaming pirate? Obtaining access to the Internet with no intention to pay for the service is a criminal offence. So watch out all of you who watch ‘iffy streams of games’ A fellow Celtic supporter could be about to clype on you to the Polis
Oglach,it begs the question, was this boy at the match? If info is true.
From today’s Washington Post. I wonder if we will ever see a major non tabloid newspaper publish a detailed article about the cheating at the Bigotdome? One lives in hope.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mlb/astros-cheating-open-secret/2020/02/11/1830154c-4c41-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/church-england-apology-racism-archbishop-canterbury-a4359856.html
And yet on the BBC website there is mention of the Archbishop’s speech.
The national broadcaster sure loves to be selective in it’s reporting of racism.
No doubt those acting on the child’s behalf will uncover exactly what happened.
It’ll be interesting if the anonymous author of the prejudicial statement from Ibrox is asked a few questions.
bada bing1
So how did a Celtic Season Ticket holder complain to police ?
The more you step on shite the further it spreads as my old man would say
Bada Bing 1 @ 12.41
If there is truth in this that serves to create a completely different narrative to what we’ve been told until now. Which means what exactly for the previous narrative? So there was no 12 yr old boy arrested for his illegal actions at the game. So there were no off-duty season ticket holding police officers at the game who witnessed his illegal behaviour.
Whilst in the original statement and the new narrative Police Scotland’s statement is probably 100% accurate it is also disingenuous distinctly because of the furore around Morelos’ sending off and subsequent actions of him and the allegations of racism directed at him from the Celtic support as it is designed to read like the boy was arrested and charged due to events at the game.
McCaff- it’s a totally different situation altogether, if true mate.
https://news.stv.tv/scotland/ex-celtic-captain-jackie-mcnamara-sitting-up-and-talking?iab=1&r=1581516300000
Big Audio Dynamite
Here ye go mate…treat yersel!! Live at the O2 Academy, Glasgow 2008. Its when you watch them play you realise how good they actually were.
If the relationship between Celtic and Sky breaks down irrevocably AND the huns go bust before the start of next season.. I can see them wanting to renegotiate the TV deal down to a financial level that will make sense for BT sport to re-enter the fray.
I was a big New Order fan. Technique was their last album as far as I am concerned.Was a Joy Division fan before that. I have seen New Order live about 10 times. Every single time I saw them .. small venue, big venue absolute fucking shit. A studio band if ever there was one
For all you trend setters out there. A limited edition ‘Power, Corruption and Lies’ Dr Martens boot. I went for a nifty pair of Dr Martens ‘Unknown Pleasures’ model
https://www.drmartens.com/uk/en_gb/p/boots-rose-cristal-suede-1460-power
Hooky’s bass rifts have been the background noise to my life for as long as I can remember, Warsaw, Joy Division, New Order.
Awe Naw
Mibbe this will cheer you up, Barney is outstanding….
Dr Marten ‘Unknown Pleasures’ boot
Created in homage to British band Joy Division and the cover art from Unknown Pleasures.
Go on buy a pair, you know you want to. Ah go on, go on, go on, go on!
https://www.drmartens.com/uk/en_gb/p/boots-smooth-1460-unknown-pleasures
Awe Naw
or perhaps more topically…..
Oglach
Lovely pair of DM’s but you’d need to be handy with yer fists to wear them in Govan….