The Lost Ten-Part Eight

Morning,all.

As we licked our wounds from the shocker of the season before,the club lost chairman Desmond White. My thoughts about him are widely known-and widely held by others-so I didn’t much mourn his passing in June 85. It would have been nice if he had passed on the numbers and passwords for the secret account in The Cayman Islands before he kicked the bucket,right enough. The club as usual pleaded poverty when it came to signings and spent another million or so painting the crash barriers inside the ground. 

Go figure. 

No new signings and no left back since the departure of Mark Reid at the end of the previous season. This meant far too often that Tommy Burns was played in that perennial problem position,much to the detriment of his game and of the team overall. The centre of defence was a problem too,with no-one really impressing alongside Roy Aitken. And at right back,Danny McGrain may still have been Danny McGrain,but he wasn’t getting any younger. To find the solution,Davie Hay turned to Stevie Clarke at St Mirren and Joe McLaughlin at Clyde. The board cocked him a deaf ‘un. ”Twas ever thus. 

On top of that,Frank McGarvey’s contract wasn’t renewed,nor was he replaced-but we had the ever-excellent Brian McClair and Mo Judas firing them in,with able support from Alan McInally. Did you know he played for Bayern Munchen? Talk to him for two minutes and you will!

Up front and in midfield,there’s no doubt that we were an efficient and clinical unit on our day but,well,Tiocfaidh ar la? We were fed up waiting. 

The season started with a dull one,a poor performance at Tynecastle rescued by a late equaliser by Paul McStay. He really was becoming a wonderful player. A couple of good results followed but a draw with the huns at home took the shine off things. I think the crossbar at Celtic Park is still vibrating from a shot by Robert Prytz that day,he absolutely hammered it. A few more good results followed,including a defeat of Aberdeen at home. We rounded off September with a comfortable 2-0 against Dundee and were looking good. Tight at the top with Aberdeen and Dundee United with,surprisingly,Hearts keeping up to the pace. 

Then October arrived. In three months between beating Dundee and then Clydebank,both by 2-0,we hit an abysmal run of form. In eleven matches our form read W4 D2 L5 and this included a run of three matches against Aberdeen,Dundee United and Rangers. Which we managed to lose by an aggregate of 10-1. Absolutely shocking. 

Turkey was off the menu at Christmas for us Celtic fans that year. They were all on the pitch and we were fed up watching them getting stuffed. Let’s say that morale was low,and leave it at that. God,on our daywe were good,aye,but…

New Year arrived and our inconsistent form continued. Our next ten matches saw us taking only eleven points,with far too many draws in games we should have won. Twice being two goals in front at Ibrox,for instance,and scrambling for a late equaliser for a 4-4 draw. Eight games left and seven points behind unlikely pacesetters Hearts,who were on a long unbeaten run-it looked all over,for sure. And we were out of the cup too,losing again to Hibs. I mean,Hibs?!!!

Indeed,I was wondering whether it had been a good idea converting SOLKITTS to Timmery as we had won sod all really in his four years as a fan! (It was,by the way. Uberfan to this day,as are his family. Just saying)

It was then that we finally found some consistency. Perhaps it was the introduction of Derek White to central defence,but it had more to do with Tommy Burns being restored to midfield instead of being wasted as a stop-gap left back. Wins against Clydebank,Dundee,St Mirren,Aberdeen-at Pittodrie!-and our bogey team that season,Hibs,left us three behind with three to play. We won our next two against Motherwell and Dundee again,while Hearts dropped another point. 

It was all down to the final match. We were away to St Mirren and Hearts were away to Dundee. They were two points in front,with a goal difference superiority of four. We had to win by a good few and hope that Hearts would suffer their first defeat since November. 

Well,a goal by Brian McClair settled the nerves after five minutes and three more before half-time meant that all eyes were on Dens Park. But I’ll veer from the usual retelling of these years by going for a proper journalists views on the events. 


HOW LATE IT WAS! HOW LATE!

By David W Potter

(Following is from the wonderful Keep-the-Faith website (link))

It’s been a bleak few days for Timdom, although gradually the realisation is once again dawning that Celtic remain masters of their own destiny. David W Potter recalls another time, another place, when Celtic were dependent on others. That significant other was Albert Kidd. How the League was won – Love Street , May 3rd , 1986.

May 3 rd 1986 was a dull wet day. In the East of Scotland, mist was prevalent, that cold unpleasant mist which hangs around and makes one wonder whether there is to be any kind of spring this year. In the West, it was wet – nothing unusual about that – as 17,557 fans made their way to the still primitive Love Street with its open terracings and toilets that were, frankly, a health hazard.

The Celtic fans were hardly upbeat. There was a slight chance of winning the title, but only a slight one. Celtic had to beat St.Mirren by four goals and hope that Dundee could beat Hearts at Dens Park – another stadium, like that of St.Mirren, which was long on the proud traditions and history of Scottish football, but short on basic amenities and hygiene.

The word “reconciled” was appropriate to Celtic fans that day. Hearts were going to win the League, and in a moment of weakness, we could confess that they deserved it. After all, it was difficult to be jealous of Hearts who had last won a trophy in 1962. And it would have to be agreed that Celtic had not really had a great season – a fragile defence, talent abounding in midfield, but the team seemingly unable to convert dominance into goals. Up front, Brian McClair and Maurice Johnston, fine players both, but already showing signs of lack of commitment to the Club. Manager Davie Hay was a likeable man, but too often, we felt, not really up to the job.

Hearts on the other hand were a bunch of honest journeymen, well managed by ex-Ranger Alec McDonald, and they had emerged from nowhere as Championship contenders some time about November. Steadily they had seen off the challenges of Aberdeen , Rangers and Dundee United, until Celtic with their staying power pushed them ever so slightly. But Hearts still remained ahead, albeit they were playing in a pedestrian way. They might have won the League the previous Wednesday, but Celtic beat Motherwell to take it to the last day.

The Gorgie area of Edinburgh was galvanised into travelling to Dundee that day, even though the support was full of Johnnie-come-latelies who had been nowhere in sight when they were relegated in 1977, 1979 and 1981. The Hearts support of 1986 had a great deal of new scarves. Yet, one supposed that it was good to see some sort of interest in football in Edinburgh , a city where interest was traditionally and lamentably low. It was a “good thing for Scottish football”, whatever that nonsense meant.

There were other side issues at stake today as well. Rangers, now under the command of Graeme Souness, were at Ibrox and it was between them and Dundee for qualification for Europe . But Rangers fans were less concerned with that then they were with the fortunes of Hearts, who, they hoped, would win the Championship today.

As Celtic buses headed out to Paisley , there were the usual finger gestures from Celtic fans as they passed Ibrox, but it was all rather half-hearted, for the season was finishing like a damp squib for both teams who had let their fans down this year.

Celtic started their game brightly. They had nothing to lose and their slight chance of the League depended on goals being scored. Goals came, five of them, all good, four before half time, so that the Jam Tarts at Dundee heard about this at half time and became despondent. McClair and Johnston scored two each and Paul McStay the other one, and Celtic actually looked (as they had done very rarely this season) like Champions. 

1986-05-03: St. Mirren 0-5 Celtic, Premier Division – The Celtic WikiHearts meantime huffed and puffed, but couldn’t score. The first half was dire, and it was only at half time with the news from Love Street that it dawned on them, that although a draw would win them the Championship, it just needed Dundee to score. 

John Robertson, their centre forward, had a few chances but went wide of the defence with his best one and blew it. Still, Dundee weren’t like scoring either. But it was still tense as the second half wore on. The half time tannoy man had been in little doubt, however, for he had pleaded with Hearts fans to stay off the pitch at the end of the game so that the League Championship could be presented. 

An eerie atmosphere had settled over Love Street . Celtic had done their bit but it hadn’t been good enough. It was raining, and hammering a team 5-0 was not edifying watching, particularly as the players seemed to be a little despondent as well. It could have been so much different this year. 

Dundee brought on a substitute called Albert Kidd. His career had flopped badly and he felt that he might emigrate to Australia soon, or if he stayed in Scotland , give up professional football and get a job doing something else. He might become a supporter of his favourite team, Celtic. Still, here he was getting a chance. 

Time was passing slowly at both grounds. Love Street was becoming depressing, and Dens Park was tense as the older Jambos recalled 1960 (the last time they had won the League) and the younger ones wondered how they would celebrate that night. At Recreation Park , Alloa, the only supporter on the terracing behind the goal had a transistor radio and kept the players of Alloa and Forfar abreast of developments. “5-0 and 0-0,” he shouted to all who wanted to hear. He was enjoying his moment of power. 

But then it happened. St.Mirren’s goalkeeper Jim Stewart, who had once played for Rangers, picked the ball up and bedlam erupted on the terraces as the commentator said, “Kidd has scored!” At Easter Road, Hibs’ Joe Tortolano took a throw in and found himself cheered ecstatically. At Recreation Park , the lad with the tranny started to jump and punch the air. At Ibrox there was also cheering, for they thought that it was Walter Kidd of Hearts who had scored with only seven minutes remaining at Dens Park , not the little known Albert Kidd of Dundee . The cheering died away suddenly when the truth dawned. 

Hearts supporters collapsed, some of them literally, but most of them in the figurative sense for they felt a disaster coming. Celtic’s management team signalled to the players to keep calm, for there were minutes remaining. St.Mirren’s players Abercrombie, Fitzpatrick and McGarvey were also glad, for they shared the same allegiance as Albert Kidd, who had done the job 100 miles away to the north east. 

Then Kidd (yes, Albert) did it again! A brilliant goal this time! Love Street erupted, so did Easter Road and the miniscule Dundee home support at Dens Park . Ibrox went quiet and Hearts fans slumped over their crush barriers as one or two idiots ran on to the field to try to get the game stopped. Fortunately there were only one or two, and the police cleared them away. 

Full time came at Dens a minute or so before it did at Love Street . Thus were Celtic, in their horrible lime green strip, the Champions of Scotland at the eleventh hour. 

Albert Kidd disappeared from the game soon afterwards (moving to Australia), but will remain a Celtic hero. It was almost as if Destiny kept him for that purpose and for no other. 

For Hearts there was more agony. They lost the Scottish Cup Final next week as well. No-one should ever be jealous of Hearts, we decided. We were even magnanimous to them, but it served them right for singing Rangers songs and all that nonsense of “Weegie scum” and “hunting in dustbins for something to eat”. 

But Celtic, well, they were the Champions. Forgiven were all the poor games this year, saved was the Manager’s job of Davie Hay (temporarily at least) and raised were the fingers as we drove past Ibrox that night. 

We made it,but oh how late it was,how late!


We were champions again,at last. Four long years since we last savoured that feeling,and we were going into a World Cup summer with a spring in our step. Bloody marvellous. All those defeats we had snatched from the jaws of victory,but once again we had done it the other way round. Oh,it was good to be a Tim!


Above article by BMCUWP. If you would like to contribute an article,we will happily publish it. Mail it to Mahe

sentinelcelts@gmail.com

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Memories… like the …….
Those were the days or to be precise..that was a day that was!
Another grand read and memory.
Speaking of memories, CCB is of to golf today by bus, train ( and I will even see a boat at Largs pier ) and Shanks’ pony public transport! At last, a proper golfing day which will include a small libation or two??.
Who cares how many points I get at least I’ll get a pint or two!!

Garry

Great read about a season I remember very little about, due to living in Derby till April 86. I returned to Glasgow, and went to all of our run in games home and away, up to and including, Love Street in May. That day in Paisley will remain as one of my most memorable ever days at a game. Partied from that night, up to and beyond my 21st birthday a month later. Then came Mexico 86 and Maradona. Great time to be alive.

jimthetim53

Morning all & Packy,
Great read Bobby, seasons like that can’t be good for the heart! (or Hearts)

Garry

Good morning Jim.
Lovely, sunny start to the week in Clydebank.
Just been for a walk to the shops for Morton’s well fired rolls and a block of Lorne sausage, dressed in tee shirt and shorts. Hopefully nice week ahead.

Garry

CCB
Enjoy the gowf and the pints. Lovely day for it.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

COSYCORNERBHOY

Bob Geldof got it wrong…

My Dad loves Mondays again,at last! Hope you have a smashing day. Just not to good a one,or Mum will have you serving your penance tomorrow.

Garry

BMCUW
I am sure CCB will be on best behaviour today. He wouldn’t want to be punished and miss the PSG v Celtic match at 6pm tomorrow. ?

voguepunter

BMCUW

Thanks for the memories M, I was at Love st. that fantastic day and got in the boys gate (no queue)
£1 entry … a bargain :O)

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GARRY

Good point! Hope he reads this.

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VOGUEPUNTER

Ah,that reminds me…

First time I took SOLKITTS to Love Street,we went into the pub next door to the ground-eventually. Stringfellows,I think. He’s 6’4″ wi a full beard and moustache at the time. 21yo,while I’m 19yo.

About ten minutes to kick off,he downs his pint and suggests we get going. I looked at him,ordered up another round-we were standing at the bar-and suggested he have a look out the door behind him. He didn’t realise how close we were to the ground,but pointed out that the queues were enormous.

All in hand,I said. Get that down ye.

So we sauntered out about two minutes to kick-off,queues still a mile long. And I promptly joined the one for the boys gate! Only about thirty or so people in front,sorted like I’d told him.

Never get away with this,Mick. Sure we will. Handed him a paper,told him to bury his head in it and slouch a bit. A lot!

Anyway,mounted copper is on patrol,shouts-‘Are you old enough to smoke’ at the young lad in front of us.

Aye,mate.

“Well,you’re too old to be in this queue then. Out!”

Us? Face of concern,just sallied on through. He warned me within an inch of my life not to put him through it again,though. Yet loves telling that story!

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Hi,Jim.

How was your weekend? Quiet one with a few bottles,or down to see the family?

Mine was same as it ever was,as a son of the rock said. Which is good,cos for four months it WASN’T same as it ever was. And that was tough.

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Hmmm…

First time for everything. Just got a letter from my local MP. Robert Buckland,Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor doncha know. Telling me that he’s holding a surgery in two weeks.

Whoopydo!

Expensive envelope,not the 50 for a quid from Poundland. Marked with House of Commons,so printed too. Including the postage,about £2 is a conservative,pun intended,estimate.

It would cost two bob max for a flyer to be delivered,and also by Royal Mail. Instead,he has roughly 60,000 constituents and has pissed £120,000 against the wall when he could have done it as effectively for £6k.

£114,000.

Multiply that by 650 MPs. That’s £74100000.

That’s right. An MP holds a surgery,they all do. And it costs us £74m every fucking time to let people know that they can turn up and be told to eff off. Not interested. I’ll take this into consideration,etc.

Bloody hell,that has really pissed me off.

Noel Skytrot

The 4-4 game against William was a brilliant game and atmosphere. My abiding memory of Love St apart from the result is ruining my brand new Lee denims falling on my arse when running on to the pitch. Like Garry, this was my first magical experience being a Celtic supporter, I was really getting the Celtic bug at this time. It’s never left me since.

JimmynotPaul

Morning all.
Here’s my article on it, from Nov 18.
What is my favourite Celtic game ever, that I’ve attended? A toss of the coin, ten men won the league or Love St 86.

In 86, I stayed in Priesthill, which is not a million miles from Love St.
However, I had no intention of going to the game, I had a sizeable wager on Dancing Brave to win the 2,000 Guineas, the kind of bet, I would never dream of placing now and the race was to be run during the first half of the game. In addition, I had little faith in Celtic turning it around;it’s easily forgotten,in the midst of time, that St Mirren were a good outfit then and to win would be difficult enough, never mind winning by at least 3 goals.

And of course Hearts losing too.

My big mate, Billy Clark was having none of it though, he phoned me and said what time are we going to the game at? I told him I wasn’t going and told him why.

Don’t talk mince ya clown, was his response, or words to that effect. It’s Celtic we are built on fairy tales, today we will win it. He started to rhyme off occasions when we had been the underdog, the Coronation Cup, the 7.1 game (where Rangers were hot favourites) and, of course, Lisbon. I still refused to budge and he hung up raging at me. I thought that was that, but no, a little later a taxi pulled up at my door. Billy got out, hurry up we’ve got a game to go to.

Under pressure, I relented and went to the game, one of the best decisions I’ve ever made, even if standing in the Chernobyl rain made my hair fall out, prematurely, well that’s my excuse.

Celtic were magnificent that day and Judas scored one of the greatest Celtic team goals ever. A strange but brilliant thing, for me, happened at half time, the tannoy announcer told the crowd that Dancing Brave had won the big race, now to the best of my knowledge that normally didn’t happen. I was now starting to believe Celtic 4 up at half time Hearts 0.0 and my horse had won. It couldn’t happen could it?

The second half was a strange affair Celtic went 5 up early and then everyone, even the players, it seemed, waited and waited on events at Dens Park, no smart phones in those days, all we could rely on was a wee guy or two with a pocket radio, finally with about 8 minutes to go one of them shouted 1.0 to Dundee, we all erupted, at the same time thinking he better not have made a mistake, if you have never viewed the footage of this moment in time, I implore you to do it, Jim Stewart with the ball in his arms and then the Celtic fans start going crazy behind him, it’s truly an iconic moment in sport,soon afterwards Albert Kidd added a second for him and Dundee and the party really started, it was then that, even I believed!!.

We ran all the way home from Paisley to Nitshill, in fact we were so high that maybe we flew home, we arrived at The Royal Oak and celebrated long into the night.

I’m a lucky man that Billy believed, we all need a friend like Billy in life.

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NOEL SKYTROT

LEE were Made In Kilwinning,believe it or not!

Noel Skytrot

BMCUWP,

I never knew that. As a fifteen year old with not very much in terms of cool clobber I was horrified with the amount of mud on them, you would think I had slide tackled someone on the pitch. In saying that, the denims didn’t last long, the memory of that day is perpetually ingrained.

I’ve a brother in law who’s a Dee and I call him Albert, its funny when company ask me or him why he gets called that.

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JIMMYNOTPAUL

A fantastic memory,brilliantly told and shared,and one that I honestly may never forgive myself for not sharing.

Problem was,frankly,that I’d had enough of the nearly men by this time. I’d had my heart wrenched so often since the night ten men won the league.

That dreadful penalty from Bobby Lennox in 1980-sorry,Bobby. I love you dearly,but it was a shocker!-or the Ralph Milne goal in 83. Or the Black October that we always seemed to suffer.

I honestly couldn’t do it anymore. Couldn’t face another failure,heroic or otherwise. I didn’t go,and my kid sis has never forgiven me for it.

For which I humbly beg for forgiveness. It’s been 34 years,and I’m sure that in maybe another 34 or so,she just might.

I just couldn’t face another one. And I’ve lived with that ever since!!!

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NOELSKYTROT

Most of the computers people bought in the 80s and 90s were made in Kilwinning too. Company was destroyed by the rise of China and globalisation.

Shocking company to work for,but ok if you managed to crack a good shift. Don’t weep tears for the owners,but I sure do for the jobs lost.

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JIMMYNOTPAUL

I don’t want to push the Kilwinning bit too much,but Jim Stewart lived two doors up from my Auntie Joanna.

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Kilwinning Quick News…

GER57

I had gone to Argyll to visit my wife’s family that weekend. Two of my brothers in law were playing Shinty for Inveraray v Glendaruel, a wee village in the Kyles of Butr. The match was to start at 5.30.
Driving to the shinty, we had the radio on, but the signal was intermittent and we only got snatches of the commentary. We knew Celtic were four up, still level at Dens. Then we got a proper signal, just in time for Albert’s first. Cue mayhem in the car. Btw, my in laws were Rangers facing, but not huns (one bro in law was a Tim) and then no 2 went in. Champions!!
Nearly all the others at the shinty game, say 250 players and supporters, WERE Huns and their faces were contorted with hate and frustration. I was bouncin’.
What a weird place to take in such a victory. I managed right enough.

Noel Skytrot

BMCUWP,

I was recently working with a young woman from Kilwinning trying to help her with her lifestyle issues and she has fond memories of her birthplace but states its a different place, the aforementioned was probably the catalyst for it all.

JimmynotPaul

BMCUW.
I remember Bobby’s penalty, I was in the front stand that day, the Aberdeen keeper, if he had dived the wrong way, would have had enough time, to pick himself up and still save it.
As you say though, Bobby is a true Celtic legend and is obviously forgiven one bad day.

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JIMMYNOTPAUL

I mentioned Bobby’s penalty in Part Two. Basically,Clark could have gone out for a half time pie and still saved it. Absolutely right,mate.

We can all remember Bobby for much more than that,of course. Start with legend,and work your way from there.

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NOELSKYTROT

i still have contact with social and community workers there,and it really boils down to one thing.

Go to school. Or not. Cause it disnae matter anyway. Prepare for a life on benefits and getting treated like shit. Get hooked on heroin. Go on methadone. Don’t realise that’s a way of controlling you,it won’t cure you.

Look at your kids. Weep,because they are gonna do what you did. Because there’s nothing else.

The real definition of poverty is the poverty of aspiration. That’s the accepted soundbite.

Is it fuck.

The definition of poverty is the poverty of hope.

Rolling Stone

@ STFB

Following on from your post yesterday.

“My point was that, until we have evidence of how next season is going, that is the only evidence we have available…” I don’t necessarily agree. Last season we saw that we were tactically deficient in a lot of high profile games- I would note that tactics really play a tiny part in our domestic football save for Sevco game; we have vastly superior players and squad to the other SPFL teams and, in most instances, our errors are not punished and the most steadfast defence is eventually breached by constant pressure- and this led, inevitably, to defeat.

The same lack of tactical nous appears to be present in the game against Nice: uneven and disjointed pressing, poor shape and acres of space between defence and midfield, namely because that area has been vacated by Broony and he doesn’t have the legs to get back to cover. I don’t think any Celtic fan needs to wait until competitive games start to learn that this remains an issue. I suspect it will be all too evident once again during CL qualification.

Re Sevco having a superior management team, you said, “No for two main reasons. One, they have not won anything and that is the ultimate metric…” There surely has to be some context? Gerrard is two years into his managerial career and took on a basket case of a club who were being soundly beaten by us on every occasion in the preceding years; had finished behind Aberdeen the two years prior; and had been knocked out of Europe by the 4th best team by Luxembourg.

Since taking over they have: reached a domestic final which they dominated and miraculously lost on account of a FF special; they have gone further in Europe than we have managed since MON (qualifying would have seemed achievement enough); they have comfortably beaten us both home and away and have not suffered a defeat to us by more than 1 goal (long gone are the days of scoring 4 and 5 without reply); and have comfortably solidified themselves as title contenders- do you think Aberdeen will be challenging them for 2nd anymore?

All against the backdrop of having an inferior first XI and squad- most of us agree they would get 1 or 2 of their starting XI (at most) into ours

“Two, I described them setting up a team suited to counter attack which is not the day to day conditions they meet in the SPFL. It’s like a horse trainer specialising on left handed courses when the majority of his horses will race on right handed ones.”

If anything this supports my view that Gerrard is a better manager. It is common, in fact orthodoxy, for inferior teams to play defensive, counter attacking football against better quality opposition, as in order to play free flowing, expansive football you need to have quality players to begin with; defensive, counter attacking football helps to negate the quality deficit. Arsenal, who themselves have quality players, deployed these tactics against City this weekend.

If deployed successfully, it is a reflection of a manager’s quality, as it evidences his ability to get his team well drilled and regimented in formation, tactics and discipline. So the fact that Sevco are a far better counter attacking team than we are (particularly in Europe) evidences the qualify gap between management teams.

While these tactics might not suit the SPFL, there is little Gerrard can do to effect that, save for buying better players. He can’t make Jack or Airfield as skilful or creative as CalMac or Rogic, but he can work on formation, positioning and drilling, which he clearly has done. As stated above, we just rely on having better players to beat domestic teams in the SPFL, there are no great tactics at play there. That’s why when tactics are needed, we are found wanting and concede 7 goals to Cluj and Copenhagen.

“We pay as much for a Forster/Roberts loan as we do for a medium price bought player…”

We don’t. Ntcham, Benyu, Paddy (loan) and OE (loan) were brought in for a combined £6.13m per the accounts. Ntcham was quoted as £4.5m and Benyu £50k, so Paddy and OE combined were circa £1.5m or £750k each- does that constitute a medium price player in your eyes? Last year’s accounts detailed the fees received for the transfer of KT but neglected to include fees paid, including loan fees, so there is no evidence to support one view or the other for last season.

“…but there are always some who are waiting on us to confirm a CL Group Qualifying programme before they will agree to come.”

Not to labour the point, but where is the evidence of this? It is conjecture. I’ve evidenced that we have not been signing players after qualifying for the CL. The reason the above line gets traction is on account of people confusing cause and effect. Effect= we haven’t strengthened/strengthened sufficiently ahead of CL qualification. Cause= well it must be because players are waiting to see the outcome of qualification before deciding. It’s completely unsubstantiated.

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GER57

One thing I can think of you enjoying yourself that night…

Your smile. A smile like no other!

I’ll bet you used your secret weapon to good effect that night!

Chairbhoy

BRT&H on 18TH JULY 2020 @ 8:43 AM,

Earlier this week there was a post about Celtic monitoring any potential shake up on The European Football front, and a couple of weeks ago we were told that such was the potential financial crisis among football clubs in England that an invitation for Celtic to join the English league was nearer than ever.

Whether you would agree with either or these moves, or to any change with would see Celtic play outwith Scotland, what can’t be ignored is that “the business” of football is now one which is attracting serious money people who are willing to invest with a view to making money.

What is of key importance to any investor is not how many titles a club has, what league a club plays in or who the star striker may be. No what is important has been described in the following terms;

“We look for companies that have an excellent business, brilliant management and a solid and healthy balance sheet,”

That being so, as a club run under a PLC structure, and attracting ever better deals with the likes of Adidas and other commercial partners, you have to ask is the writing, as opposed to the graffiti, on the wall for Celtic?

https://offthepitch.com/a/minority-stakeholder-dortmund-lyon-and-ajax-earnings-outlook-football-clubs-remains-positive-long?autologin=55652999d1378058e0cd1462083df135&email=david%40lowdit.com&wv_email=david%40lowdit.com&wv_id=8d4f42ed-2a4c-4e69-9813-d6d7b22b85b3&wv_name=

Just catching up and this piece caught my eye – obviously.

It is now an obssession with Celtic supporters to have a “well run club”.

Of course this is smoke’n mirrors, the people who “run Celtic” have used a pincer movement involving scare tactics and managing expectations to ensure Celtic supporters equate a well run business with a high performance football club.

As Clubs like Lyon, Dortmund and Ajax have shown a well run business supporting a well run football club is of course not only possible but is highly effective.

Yet Super Clubs like Real, Man City, PSG etc are of course basket cases as far a business goes, yet create highly succesful football teams, because excelling in the sport of football is their be~all and end~all.

Celtic are the other end of the spectrum, where running “an excellent business, brilliant management and a solid and healthy balance sheet,” is far more important than what the team does on the pitch.

Of course the businessmen can’t just ignore what happens on the pitch, outwith player transfers and sponsorship, all major income streams are dependent on team performance. That said of course, the former is a resultant of said performance.

Yet Celtic while not being exactly unique in this regard are a very special case.

Because Celtic are: “More Than Just A Club”.

So this gives the business folk huge leeway, the passion and commitment of the Celtic fans if managed correctly and that is where Celtic PLC and their main shareholders are brilliant – they can simply minimise outgoings by managing the expectations of the fanbase, while maximising the profitable income streams such as season ticket sales, merchandising and marquee player sales.

Let’s face it, what other major football Club’s supporters would allow their better players to be sold season after season after season… none, the exact opposite…

What other major football club’s supporters would be content at their team failing in major European competition because keeping funds securely in the bank is of utmost importance… none, the exact opposite…

That is the brillance of Celtic PLC.

It wasn’t always the case, no, even in relatively recent memory, the lengths we went to to keep the King of King’s at Paradise and the pride, anguish and frustration we felt at Seville is palpaple in all but our youngest fans.

So why do Celtic supporters put up with this? Simple, the smart Celticwise businessmen understand the value of the old-firm brand, beating Rangers is what it’s all about, it’s an obssession bourne out of tribalism, ideology and bigotry… the fanbase falling into one or other or all of those categories.

As long as there is the old -firm the money roles in.

Of course the main pay day for Celticwise buisnessmen is not the old firm matches and the tens of millions of pounds it generates

The big pay day is when Celtic go to a higher level league; England, Pan-European or even a bespoke “Atlantic” type set-up is going to bank those guys hundreds of millions of pounds.

And the beauty is, they don’t have to give up the “old firm” money go round, by ensuring Rangers are competitive, Celtic ensure their “rivals” will get an invite to whatever party Celtic are invited to…

Celtic & Guest… RVSP

Celtic don’t need a strong Rangers, but it sure helps.

Hail Hail

Noel Skytrot

BMCUWP,

I couldn’t disagree with that response to my remark about your hometown, or for anywhere else in Scotland that’s been blighted.

JimmynotPaul

Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell, St Johnstone chairman Steve Brown and Clyde’s Gordon Thompson (alternate director) join the SPFL board. ICT’s Ross Morrison fails to get elected.

No way, ICT were being allowed a rep, on the board, after their behaviour on ending the leagues.

fan-a-tic

Chairbhoy
(It is now an obssession with Celtic supporters to have a “well run club”.

Of course this is smoke’n mirrors, the people who “run Celtic” have used a pincer movement involving scare tactics and managing expectations to ensure Celtic supporters equate a well run business with a high performance football club.)
Nail on head!!!

Chairbhoy

Rolling Stone @ 11:45,

That is a very good and well set out post.

The reason the above line gets traction is on account of people confusing cause and effect. Effect= we haven’t strengthened/strengthened sufficiently ahead of CL qualification. Cause= well it must be because players are waiting to see the outcome of qualification before deciding. It’s completely unsubstantiated.

This is a huge point, we were told that we couldn’t gamble on strenghtening the team for UCL qualification as failure to qualify would put the Club in debt.

Yet we were told that every penny generated would be spent on the Club.

The premise being if we do qualify for Champions League, the extra income allows us to strenghten for qualification the next season.

Ergo, the more chance we have to qualify the following season.

We were also told funds from “high value” player tranfers would be reinvested on the team.

Time and time again when we have qualified for UCL &/or sold players for a lot of money, the funds generated have not been spent strenghtening the team.

The excuse changed to… we can’t strenghten until we qualify.

Then when we do qualify we don’t strenghten anyway.

Fan-a-tic @ 1:03,

Thanks – some great posts by you ghuys over the weekend.

Hail Hail

jimthetim53

Thank goodness for so many honest and well thought out opinions on all things Celtic.

big packy

AFTERNOON ALL and JIM, well you wont believe this, my wife asking for directions to penny lane in liverpool ,she took the dogs down there this morning to her friends grooming salon, so she could groom them, they have not had a groom since we closed the shop, now i know she has been up here in cheshire for 40 years, but she was born and bread in that part of liverpool,,ffs im from lanarkshire ? joan i said down menlove ave past john lennons house, past strawberry fields and your there, FFS jim the tim could even find it?

jimthetim53

I barely know Liverpool Packy. One thing I remember is the Philharmonic pub. If you get the chance go and have a drink with Joan in it. It’s probably the most spectacular pub I have ever been in.
Also, I watched Chariots of Fire at the cinema in Liverpool.

big packy

HI JIM, yes been in the philharmonic pub a few times, in fact played a jazz gig in there once with a five piece band, lovely acoustics in there, what have you been up to?

McCaff

Afternoon all, I hope this finds you all well.
Big Jim Packy and JtT, how are you guys today? I lurked a bit over the weekend but had a really busy Saturday and Sunday. Picked up the dug Saturday afternoon and came home to a welcome party of my nephew and niece with their partners so ended up doing dinner til late! And the same again last night, they all came back for dinner after the pub yesterday evening! The dug must think there’s about 15 people live in this hoose!!! ???
Anyway, just to say the quality of the posts over the weekend, since Friday in fact, has been outstanding with opposite views giving plenty of food for thought…and as always done with respect and without reverting to (really) snidey remarks!

big packy

MCAFF, hi pal glad you got the dug, how is he/she coping with the glesca weather?

jimthetim53

Nothing much, i went into my local on Saturday & sat beside my uncle. unfortunately the village idiot was close at hand, shouting and arguing. I had one drink and went up the road. Going up to the doctor’s shortly, nothing to worry about!

big packy

JIM, hope you dont have to queue, like i did a couple of weeks ago ?

big packy

this next game coming up against PSG, im worried to be honest, think PSG are a bit above nice and lyon, i dont want us to be gubbed, i know we have done it to teams over the years, and in my youth have been to parkhead and ibrox and seen us get gubbed, and yes i dont like it, BTW i dont count the EBT years that was plain simple cheating.?

MarioB
jimthetim53

The EBT cheating years? On some levels they got away with it! If that was any other club all those games where they played players with EBTs and side letters would have all the results reversed to a loss. But Nimmo Smith was a predetermined fix.
And guess which club meekly accepted it? Celtic plc. Peter Lawwell wets his pants at the thought of the Old Firm. That’s why we have also allowed the new club to claim ownership of the old club’s titles, tainted or otherwise. Scottish football is rotten to the core. But it’s OK we have a healthy balance sheet.

big packy

JIM, well said and everything true, if you are a member of the orange order up there, you will get on in life, if your just roman catholics like us, you might have to struggle a bit like our forefathers did,, hail gloria st patrick hail queen of our isle,?

Celtic1member1vote

Celtic First Team Squad Website ..

Celtic today updated the First Team Squad Website.

Whilst hopefully some new players will still be purchased or brought in on loan, right now our squad looks probably the poorest we’ve had over the last 9 years. There is a real lack of strength in depth of quality in the current in the current squad.

We currently show 2 goalkeepers, 7 defenders, 14 midfielders, 4 attackers.

To have only 7 defenders listed of which the following 3 players Bolingoli, Ralston and Frimpong (Right winger) can’t really defend in crucial physical games.

This leaves only 4 reasonable or half decent defenders in our squad.

Personally, I think this is incredible poor planning, but hopefully it’s a situation that is addressed really quickly.

Significant defensive quality signings are required urgently, or this season could turn out to be not just a major disappointment, but an absolute disaster.

Celtic1member1vote

Correction .. 13 Midfielders.

A thing of beauty

Just to echo what others have said about today’s post and the posts over the weekend. Some great debate, all done in a civilised manner. Pleasure to be involved posting on here.
McCaff,
Good luck with the patterdale pup. Got a name yet?

Chairbhoy

Celtic1member1vote @ 5:36 pm,

I’ve said for long enough we should reduce the size of our squad, mainly by not carrying a dozen prospects and projects.

So it would be rather churlish of me to criticise the size of our squad when the window just opens.

However I’m counting 18 first team players Lenny trusts.
Now in that we have players like Bolingoli who the manager doesn’t trust a lot and Mikey Johnston who is injured and Leigh whose in the black book.

There’s a defender, midfielder and forward he doesn’t seem to trust and five prospects, so why haven’t the likes of Aitchinson, Robertson and Welsh been promoted from the Development squad. It sounds like Lenny doesn’t think they’re ready, he rarely trusts these players anyway.

All in all I count 15 first team players that Lenny would be happy with. If I was confident in a big spend and rebuild it’s a good place to be, but the noises coming from Celtic in general and Lenny specifically have indicated the opposite.

Threadbare??

Hail Hail

Garry

BP
Sorry, but have to disagree with you.
The Orange Order have become an irrelevance up here. Thankfully the 70s are over. They are a dying breed in Glesca, thankfully.

McCaff

ATOB…the wee dug is called Juno. She’s starting to find her way about the house and garden. The breeder said she was the smallest in the litter but the boldest – she called her Lily (after Lily Savage!). God help us all!! 🙂 🙂