Judging our transfer policy
Many thanks Sir and as usual a well written piece asking very valid questions.
For me the heart of the issue is the soul and direction of Celtic discussed recently. Choose your course and the rest of the jigsaw will fall into place imo.
We all know our history until this point. But standing near the end of this regime with a course needing plotted, where and what happens is still a mystery.
While Covid makes the short term uncertain, and with a support unlikely to pony up to the max long term if not in actual attendance, we now have another three potential disrupting events for the club, PLC and support on the horizon.
Brexit,Irish unity and Scotland ceding.
When pondering what will happen and how would things go after these events, and possible implications, one could well wonder where to start and stop.
Political trouble in parts of Ireland would no doubt see the support drawn in for instance.
The Club may well also become the main focal point for an entire section of the community should independence for Scotland become a reality.
The travelling support may face new checks and barriers with new borders.
Etc Etc Etc. Its a wormhole.
However we have a collection of elderly upper class,so it’s hard to see them wishing to wade into such contentious issues, plus they will surely realise there may be choppy water ahead, very stormy waters for football clubs especially, so I believe these events will only cement the desire to call it a day from most of the faces on the board currently thus kicking the can down the road when it comes to the huge issue of our modern identity.
Many would think it correct they dont take such a momentous decision on the clubs behalf no doubt. I tend to agree.
Although we could probably come up with a consensus on here, the new board should and I’m sure will have their own ideas, but quite how they manage to sate the supports desires and expectations remains to be seen.
A global fanbase across a networked world will expect to see modernization at some stage, however that is almost at odds with the domestic game which :relies upon old school ways and means to achieve its aims, an Old Firm duopoly providing easy cash alongside jobs for the boys at Hampden, and for local lodge members.
A forward thinking collective of actual Celtic fans, not businessmen with a passing interest, should show the Old Firm the door, and insist on justice for each and every trespass, alas there will be many. All Celtic Football Club need to to kill off the dreaded O.F. and its hangers on is act professional.
Ways in which we could do that is a working scouting system which ties into your article re the transfer policy. The list of players you mention actually doesn’t read too bad, as approximately half went on to play significant parts for the first team, but couple weeks ago we seen Bada Bings list of those who have played less than thirty games for the club before being deemed of insufficient quality or not fancied, and there must have been somewhere in the region of one hundred million blown between fees, wages, and lose taken.
We clearly have the resource to tackle this huge drain by hiring a DOF and setting up a scouting system, yet dont opt for it.
I believe thats a huge conflict of interest on Peter’s behalf, perhaps the entire boards.
Despite the lack of a formal structured scouting setup we have achieved good domestic success and good financial success. I think it’s fair to say if modern systems were put in place in order to kiss less frogs, alongside blooding a higher percentage of youth, the above could be not only continued but enhanced.
The new setup should wish to implement their own footballing vision, that would ideally see us lay down foundations for our long term success while reducing the O.F. to merely a sideshow. The correct path would naturally see us emerge ahead of the pack by product not of our financial superiority but as a result of correct decisions throughout the footballing department.
A club playing the same style from top to bottom is a great start, and even better would be a partnership with another club that also have this particular style of play so that our talented youth could accept a loan spell away as simply par for the course and part of the learning process,rather than what used to mean not good enough.
In having the luxury of a second platform to develop and display our wares its hard not to see players sales revenue go up having more than usual display room.
With four tiers available ie
1,,Glasgow Celtic first team
2,,Glasgow Celtic squad
3,,Sister Club first team
4,,Sister Club squad
we could chart a course for any youth player with the aim of rising a tier per season etc.
In this scenario most youth should be getting that which matters most, game time. I fail to see our kids think they are going to benefit other than going out on loan, and the recent revelation young Dembele wants to leave allied with the fact Bayern have snapped up some of our kids is no surprise to me because frankly it’s the very last place I would have my precocious talent signing for, and that’s with green specs on.
That’s the naked truth, and to be honest it’s a bloody disgrace.
A travesty for the club and support, hell the world, saw what the local youths could do when we slew the beast, but yet we didn’t even turn to youth when given as much of a free run at successive titles as you can get.
That issue particularly vexes me, how we lost the golden opportunity to blood and make winners of our youth.
The recent KT snippets also dont help give off the impression that they arent extremely valued assets thought of as tomorrows next big thing. Why is that, because they are or at least could be if given the chance (Andy Robertson)?
Over the last couple windows we have signed some youth that do look talented, I’m not the only one said Connell looked very tidy indeed, but when they dont get a sniff it begs the question why stockpile them? Simply a case of one hand doesn’t know what the other is doing?
Or preparing for the next guy in the dugout, which would need all or most out playing on loan?
Whatever the deal is, for the youth it isn’t currently working.
I’m staggered we dont take more advantage of that endless flow.
The footballing department currently see’s a young player brought through as a bonus, and perhaps most fans would like an exotic foreigner over a local 18 year old.
Not me though.
The club and support are in unprecedented times aye, but yet some type of course must be decided upon.
It would be the utmost folly to ignore the Celtic nations youth, so perhaps future transfer strategies could incorporate them into the bigger picture with a predetermined disposition to fill gaps from within, something a lot easier when the entire setup is geared towards playing one way, a philosophy our club of choice clearly hasnt embraced.
In asking how to measure a successful transfer policy the metrics certainly shouldn’t be funds positive and negative, for even though I dont believe we conduct our business well in that department we have amassed quite a sum, or at least had.
It’s a very interesting question.
An increasing ‘hit rate’ would seem the natural answer alongside the simple fact you dont get em all right.
Do we get bang for buck? I cant see how anyone can claim that. The list of flops is long, too long to claim lessons were learned, much too long to claim the current approach is justified, even if it did turn a nice profit.
But then that’s where we divide, PLC and support,, the profit, the money.
They might see that nice bank account, at least it was, as a pat on the back.
I see it as a global scouting system, maybe that indoor training centre we had planned upgraded.
Something, anything that really helps the club overall. The fact we were kept in the dark is a slap in the face when one hears more than a club or a club like no other.
Which ties into your final question, the soul of the club. Auldheid worries over it, and he would know,, that alone should garner a lot more conversation, and consternation.
Everyone is different yes, so it will come down to the individual but theres only so much you can ask of a support, and our support have been asked for a lot.
The Big Lie hovers over all of us.
Res12 saw deceit from our own board.
The soul of the club, and the direction of the club, are intertwined.
The boardroom has lead for a long time, the result has been a drifting away from what many thought we stood for.
No fighting causes, game worse than ever, still hated by Hampdump etc.
It’s high time the fans started taking much more of a hands on approach at our club. Its happening at others, it would only be right if it was us now after all we have endured, or been fed depending on your viewpoint.
We will communicate, infiltrate, cajole and demand if needed, but the fans must have some say.
We must try to save the clubs soul now, for if left to others,,,,
Thanks again and Hail Hail
FWIW, I spent sometime with tech support yesterday and they claim to have resolved an underlying issue.
If you have any site problems please give us the details.
Thanks in advance.
Great article Mahe.
Complements the piece from SFTB yesterday.
I feel that what holds us back is the personnel that run our club at the Chief Executive level, and the parochialism in our dependence on our Glasgow rival ie ‘old firmism’.
I look at two of the most successful European teams in my lifetime. Barcelona, were overhauled and run by Johan Cruyff at President level. Bayern’s last two Presidents have been Franz Beckenbauer and now Karl Heinz Rummenige. Celtic have Peter Lawwell.
We need a football man with business acumen running our club.
How much dependence do Barca have on Espanyol, or Bayern on 1860 Munich?
The way that Celtic should operate in Glasgow.
I am much more interested in European success for Celtic than domestic success. Our board seem to think the opposite.
Good read Mahe,
The obsession with measurement reminds me of the greedy undertaker rushing to measure up the defeated gunfighter in the old western movies.
How do you measure hatred, bigotry, fear and domination?
Simply see the slavery of cultural, religious, educational and social conditioning as the yolk that tortured generations.
Measurement of the nettles won’t erradicate the roots. The root is found in each of us not in our external projections.
Life begins when truth dawns, the profitable business of conflict ends.
No political party, dogma or ideal ‘measures up’ to that.
Freedom is available 24/7. You don’t have to change the world to live it.
Just change you.
That should really be required reading by EVERY Celtic supporter,and particularly those in our boardroom who purport to be. The c£100m wasted on the flops-and the sheer number of them!-should have seen our existing DoF shown the door,or at least allocated other duties(!)
At the end of the day,it is clear that we have indeed built our strategy around the OF model,or at least around being just that wee bit better than them. And there can surely be no more rancid a partner anywhere in the business world than them,and that reflects badly on our board who made that decision. It’s like AstraZeneca partnering with Dr Mengele because of his experience in human experiments,IMO.
I’m working on an article just now,which is taking a bit more time than usual,and hope to have it finished for tomorrow’s article. But I doubt I’ll find a better line to include than this one…
“The correct path would naturally see us emerge ahead of the pack by product not of our financial superiority but as a result of correct decisions throughout the footballing department.”
Well done,mate. Now,get back to the day job of keeping your girls safe!
Does anyone seriously believe that Roma are interested in signing Bolingoli? If i were Lenny & PL i’d be slapping a ‘gratis’ sign on him and hope that Roma bite. Why Celtic are ‘reportedly’ looking for a fee is a bit strange as they have basically thrown £100 mill away on other duds and not seemed to care.
Very Interesting Article Mahe, good response to SFtBs thought provoking piece yesterday, that I’m just catching up on.
It made for a number of excellent responses and while many like myself seen the value of the piece and validity of certain arguments few agreed with the premise as a whole..
The idea that there is a “middle way” between the Board supporters and the cynics is just not supported by any evidence, the opposite in fact.
There is only two ways you could make an argument in support of this Board; the first is by buying into the concept that Celtic are a PLC and as such have duty to protect and increase the value of their shareholders investment by fair means or foul. The other is by giving the Celtic Board, the “benefit of the doubt”, no reasonable person who has looked at events over the last ten years could do that.
Now you could point to any number of areas where this Celtic organisation has been lacking and disingenious to it’s fan base but let’s stick with the transfers…
The European wide, network of scouts – remember “our” female scout that unearthed a gem – Amido Balde
our state of the art player Database – obviously looking like the back of a fag packet stuff by the time of the recruitment document leak
if the dB and scouting network were true then we shouldn’t be reliant on “partners”, the Boards contacts at Man City and agents like Dudu Dahan – a typically indolent approach to the transfer business
all the profit from European qualification being reinvested in the team
all the profit from player sales being reinvested in the team
and the doozy, we aim to come out of every transfer window stronger than we went in.
It was all misdirection as the Board enjoyed the “good life” while feathering their nest.
There were several areas where I could point out flaws in SFtBs piece, statements that seem reasonable in and of themselves but just don’t stand up to scrutiny and, as SFtBs likes to call them… the squirrels…
…but an ever decreasing spiral of difficulty in being relevant in Europe. This gets explained differently by different viewpoints within the support. I belong to the Glass Ceiling Explanation group that suggests we are competing in an unfair market with TV money used as a steroid…
We are being dumped out of Europe by the likes Cluj, Copenhagen and Ferencvaros the antithesis of the “Steriod Clubs”… this imaginery “glass ceiling” is typical misdirection from the PLC, a Board that looks to lame excuse, after lame excuse to justify unacceptable failure.
How do you run a business? An idea, proper managment, skiilled staff. Have a product that people need/want. How to sustain that and to have the foresight to be able to change up tool, diverse, expertese and quality training of staff A way to present and proof that said product works longterm not disintegrate after 5 yrs. Please advise Plc.
Elkie was a wonderful singer,even though her chart stuff wasn’t really to my taste. Her stuff with Vinegar Joe was more representative. Lilac Wine,though,how anyone couldn’t just chill listening to that…
Interesting and sobering article.
(A travesty for the club and support, hell the world, saw what the local youths could do when we slew the beast, but yet we didn’t even turn to youth when given as much of a free run at successive titles as you can get)
Everything we do as a club is based on reaction and short sightedness to grab as much cash as we can.
We are run by capitalists with the myopia of kids at a wedding scramble.
The appointment of Neil Lennon last year was a shining example of such.
The capitalist’s will stay till they have wrung every penny from the club and will aim for the emotional pull of the support to give them another lucrative payday as they exit the scene of their heist.
AFTERNOON ALL AND JIM, MAHE brilliant read👍
The boss new album out on 23rd oct
Here is a song from it
There’s been plenty of food for thought over the last few days. It’s patently clear the site is divided between the two camps of fans and supporters.
The supporters want to and are able to fund their love/hobby/pastime/leisuretime/familyandfriendstime while the fans, and notably on here a lot of them are overseas, are either unwilling or unable to contribute to that same extent.
The mistake being made is the conclusion that the supporters are misled and unable to see the bigger picture. The criticisms are unfounded in so many cases, in fact I’m finding it hard to contribute at the moment as the opinions are so polarised.
Awe Naw pointed out yesterday, I think, that he’d been trying to raise a debate about this very thing on here and CQN for a while with no takers. The issue for me is that points of view are so polarised there’s no middle ground as that would appear to be an acceptance of the PLC position. It ain’t for me but I’m a supporter and probably will be long after this mob have gone.
We’re accused of a Rigid Belief System, not so for me but if we’re going to accuse people then surely the same insult can be levelled at the Naysayers who fill the site. Incidentally, the same Naysayers who were happy to come on and celebrate the 9-In-A-Row then criticise the supporters who continue to pony up to hopefully see 10-In-A-Row!. The negativity on the site can be astonishing at times. If it’s not the Board, it’s the manager, if it’s not him it’s the rest of the coaching staff or the scouting system or the players or the supporters who made their own decisions to renew season tickets in the hope and understanding that our domination of Scottish fitba continues. And that domination leads to some sort of European success…I live in hope!!
I get the criticisms, I don’t adhere to any Rigid Belief System, if I say I want to support the team and the Club it makes me some sort of plc-lover…but the negativity is seriously off-putting at times.
Lighten up guys!!
HI MCAFF, noticed you had not been on for a while glad your back, and as im older than you, i will say this, we are a broad church my view might be different to your view, jims view might be different to mine, we are all tims at the end of the day and thank feck for that😎 so you better get back posting or wee joan is gonna come calling😎😎
Hi Big Jim Packy, how are you and Wee Joan doing, are you back working yet? I’ve got nothing against the different views it’s the reactions to opposite views that puts me off!! 🙂
Hiya all & Packy.
McCaff. I’m not without some sympathy for your point of view. I have been reading all about the Rangers scenario since about 2011, via The Rangers Tax Case site, then the Scottish Football Monitor, Auldheid’s site and on here. It can be depressing. The huge corruption by so many and unresolved.
On the broader picture here on SC there is also a lot of analysis of the ON Field performances over the past decade or so. With many suggestions on how to do things differently.
But please remember buddy, the thing that underpins all of this is a deep wish for Celtic to be better!
And that’s a positive!
HI MCAFF, yes she is doing one dog a day in our house, but the good news ,the builder is coming tomorrow to make a start on the garage,,,hopefully in 2 weeks she will have her own little grooming room ,fingers crossed🤞
I’ve finally finished tomorrow’s article and mailed it to MAHE,and it includes a fair old mention of the fiasco that McAskill covers in The Scotsman.
It’s only a small part of the article,because it is only a small part of a pattern of events over the years. But when you look at the jigsaw puzzle that these small pieces are a part of-which even tomorrow’s article covers only a fraction of-it’s a mightily disturbing state of affairs. State being the operative word,because I doubt this would have happened in any other state in the world,at least not a democratic one.
And yet,in much the same way that there is no prospect yet of a government inquiry into its handling of COVID-19 there is little prospect ever of there being an inquiry into events referenced by McAskill. Because to do so would mean dredging up a lot of unpalatable facts from the past eight years and more.
Btw,I’ve never completed a jigsaw puzzle. And there was no chance of tomorrow’s article breaking that proud record!
Big Jim Packy, I’ll book the wee Govan in for a Toenail Job then. I’ll get her a return ticket to Cheshire Station, just send her back up the road when you’re fininshed!!
JtT, maybe the Rangers case is a great example of my point! Altohugh there’s a load of unhappy people with how CFC conduct there business at least we’re not that bad. I accept things should be better but you’d think we were in the same position as the Huns such can be the criticism at times!
All in my opinion of course!
MCAFF, dont listen to jim ,he has only been to parkhead once and that was in 1968 when we were both 15, and i lifted him over the turnstile 😎😎
MCAFF, when joan sees her you wont get her back😎😎
BMCUWP….The MacAskill article seemed to just end without making a real point! I felt it had more to say, was it behind a paywall? Also, on the back of the Lennon/McCoist Celtic Park incident and prior to the OBFA wasn’t MacAskill the Justice Sec who attended the Sc Cup final featuring The Rangers and suggested it was a brilliant family atmosphere, whilst I was sat at home watching the game and clearly hearing “We’re up to our knees…” sung repeatedly…
Big Jim Packy…you’d have done well to lift Jim over a turnstile…although Slim Jim the Tim could probably have slid between the wa’ and the barrier!! 😉
MCAFF, he would not pay the half crown to get in 😎
I disagree with your conclusions while agreeing with some of the reasons for arriving at them. The site isn’t anti-Celtic or anti-anyone who goes to support Celtic. Most of us,in fact,agree entirely that not only should people be allowed to go to watch the club that they were born into or grew to love,but that it should be encouraged.
Witness yourself and ATHINGOFBEAUTY taking your respective kids along to ensure the continuation of the support,as many others have done beforehand for 130 years.
Yes,I will agree that some of the posters go over the top in their criticism of the above,while giving their reasons for it. And I sometimes find it jarring or even unpleasant at times-especially since I know that if I was still living back home,I’d be one of the people they’re having a pop at!
But in general,the site and its members are supportive of the team while pointing out the failings of the board. It is probably more critical of the board than most sites,more critical of its direction and its failings over a good period of time now-time that many of us think has been wasted,along with a whole chunk of money. Money which YOU gave them,btw.
We are ALL Celtic supporters on here. We all want to be there supporting our team. That some people can’t stomach going these last few years is a criticism of a board which has lost its way,and with it their respect. But those posters haven’t lost their love for Celtic.
He was indeed,and it is highly unusual for a senior SNP member to be so critical. Expect him to feature in a leading news article somewhere soon-on the receiving end!
Re sending yer pooch down to Cheshire,years ago you could send livestock via Red Star Parcels,which were transported on the guards van of a train. This usually meant same day delivery,which was the main reason for it.
One day,a greyhound was being transported when it slipped the lead at Kilwinning station and bolted down the platform,leading to the famous event of The Stationmaster shouting…
“Stoap that dug,it’s a parcel!”
McCaff, thank goodness you said that about the MacAskill article. When I got to the end I scrolled down to see the conclusion. None!
Bobby, when I was a boy I often saw pigeon fanciers at the railway station with loads of big baskets being loaded on to the train to God knows where, for the birds to be released far away and a race back to North Lanarkshire.
BMCUWP, I appreciate your reply! But as one person on the site who has repeatedly defended my position, as has ATOB, I feel there are definitely two factions who are so polarised that there will never be agreement. Comments seem personal but maybe I’m just too sensitive about it!
The site is obviously Celtic through and through but by certain posters own admissions they’re not faithful through and through. And neither am I, I can see all the failings both on and off the park…my point is that a the moment the criticism seems relentless!
And as for the money I gave them, it has also brought a lot of joy, satisfaction, camaraderie, new friends, old friends, sadness, anger…all emotions all wrapped up in a fitba team! That’s my reason for paying up!!
As I said already, all in my opinion of course!
JIM, you mean the doos as they called them, yes remember in glenboig the baskets with the doos in them, back then it was greyhound racing, and pigeons, and of course celtic
Packy, yes we had a dug track too! The Doos and the Dugs! 🙂
Our school sports day was held in the dug track. it was just across the road.
JtTand Big Jim Packy, a few years back I was on a job where the houseowner’s old man and his pal would come down every day while he was at to babysit the doos!! These two old guys would sit in the conservatory all day staring out looking for other doos to fly into the area then go out and entice them onto their dookit. It was fascinating watching them snare a doo, they put out a cock or a hen to attract the doo onto a platform on the dookit then pull a string to close the platform when the dooo landed on it. All day every day the old guys sat there, that was there life. And the dookit was cleaner than the hoose!!
JIM, changed times now, where we would be out pretending to be the lone ranger and tonto, and william tell and ivanhoe, the kids now are glued to their xboxes and mobile phones and tablets
Who is this Lone Ranger you pretended to be?
Sounds a bit suspect to me. 😜😂
IMO, football in Scotland needs raised to the ground, this is not a new idea as has been commented on previously.
There should be a national standard of training skills from young through to youth. Look to Europe to see if we can copy a way of training,skillset.
There should be a league where our youths can play against older players a reserve league restarted.
I think Celtic in certain games play a defensive game similar to how opposing teams in our league play against us normally. Let them have the ball, let them attempt to break us down, good practice for us.
Above is just rambling I know.
Weet, re Elkie Brooks what a voice, as BMCUWP stated Vinegar Joe, She definitely belted out the songs.
GARRY, thought you might pick up on that 😎 as far as i know the lone ranger real name clayton moore was a big tim and hated the name, the lone ranger, heard a story once JFK tried to get the title changed to the lone celt 😎 also heard a story when i was very young, yes i was young once😎that JFK wanted the texas rangers to be called the texas celtic, another true story😎
(Comments seem personal but maybe I’m just too sensitive about it!)
But not sensitive enough to stop yourself doing that very thing?
When another poster aimed some personal vitriol at me you posted in support of him whilst i did not respond in kind.
I am obviously one of the negative supporters you are referring to but while i’ve criticised the PLC, coaches, players and tactics i have offered no opinion on supporters putting their hard earned money into the club.
I struggled with what i felt was a moral dilemma for years before cancelling my Celtic tv subscription last year.
For me like you it was a personal choice.
I do not feel i have the right to force my opinion on anyone.
I post my opinion often on here and people have often disagreed.
Those who stick to the subject matter and refute my nonsense have my admiration.
You have some imagination. 😉😂👍
GARRY, jealously will get you nowhere😎😎😎
Celtic,sevco fans being taking for a ride by their boards in so different ways
Who is worse?
They perpetuate the lie that they didn’t die and signed off on it.
Celtic fc yes
Celtic plc no..
No messing about in the Dail,eh?
Which I think is the point that most of us have been making. And there are good reasons for making it.
You ready for Predictor duties again after your week off? You must be about the only person on here who breathes a sigh of relief at an international break!
Looking forward to it
Some effort by jnp before the break
If anyone gets all correct will receive £20 free bet
Person with highest weekly points before Huns game will get £10 free scorecast on said game.
Fans v supporters
Any joy on the employment front..