The Road To Nowhere

Morning,all.

 

It’s a fair while since anyone uttered the old mantra about Celtic being a well-run club. Probably as long as since we last heard the Generation of Domination claptrap. But it’s probably even longer since any of us saw a decent performance from our team. Tonight provides us with another chance of that,of course. I doubt many of us will be too confident.

 

But then,it’s not only our performances on the pitch which have been bloody awful this season,our off-field performances have been if anything even worse. Think for example of the share price,which has been as high this year as 162p and as low as 85p,currently up for grabs at around a quid. Think also of the overly long silence from our leaders about the current shambles,followed by regular statements recently which are either attacking our fans or defending the indefensible. Some of them are so bad that they bring back memories of Jabba at Ibrox,and you remember how we used to laugh at them. Think too of the contempt for the usual norms of corporate governance,which are heavily critical of Non-Executive Officers staying in situ for as long as ours have,or of having had close professional relationships with the executive directors.

 

Or the fact that those executive directors have also been in place longer than is considered good practice.

 

Or,well,the list is as long as your arm,but they are judged guilty of taking their eyes off the ball and we are looking now at a long and difficult road back. I’ve no doubt it will be achieved,but there will be some blood-letting and sacrifices along the way. There may also be a change in the corporate structure if the Celtic Supporters Trust have their way. What has to be admitted is that the current set up is long past it’s sell-by date,and a new path has to be forged.

 

We will probably find out on Monday if PL is to be in charge of that new path,or whether he is to stand aside and leave the carcass for some other poor sod to breathe some new life into. The latter will hopefully lead to an entire change of direction,particularly on the football management side. Most of us will want to see a top quality manager,well versed in all the current technological and statistical aids,ably backed by his own trusted back room staff. We would also like to see a proper Director of Football in place,one who can agree footballing budgets with the new CEO and manager and then agree on targets with the manager. And who can be strong enough with the CEO to remind him of the new set up should he ever get ideas above his station.

 

As things stand,I don’t see Dermot Desmond standing aside or selling up. In actual fact,I would be quite happy to see him stick around for a while yet,even if it is only to oversee the above transition and getting it operating smoothly. He is,after all,a very capable and successful businessman with his fingers in lots of pies. Though I’m willing to bet that he doesn’t eat the ones at Celtic Park too often! But DD didn’t become a success by doing the day to day stuff at his businesses,nor by allowing the towering ego and ambition of a micromanager to dictate it either. But I don’t see PL or NL leaving before the end of the season.

 

So what I would like to see done over the next three or four months is to identify the new manager and Director of Football,charge them with the recruitment needed for the upcoming season. And for DD to find a new CEO and hopefully a new team of N-E-Ds who can change the direction of the club and get it back to being focused on success on the playing field and not on empire building. And as is the case with many CEOs in business,it isn’t entirely necessary that he has a previous knowledge of the club or even of the football business,only that he knows how to operate a business successfully and how to implement agreed action plans. It would help mightily if he knows how to listen as well.

 

This season is a write off already as far as most of us are concerned. Prolonging the agony for NL is beyond cruel as we watch his pre or post match interviews where he simply ticks off the list of available excuses for managers who have watched another garbage performance. But it is now too late to bring one in to replace him as should have been done some time ago,as the new man will not have the time left to change things. We can mark that down to another board failure,but then they never listen anyway as they always know best. But we have to be assured of a definite plan being in place to turn things around in short order,or the small protests seen recently will grow and grow. And so too will the membership list of the CST,all willing to pony up their cash to do it for them.

 

And the biggest worry of all for the hierarchy at the club must be the certain knowledge that many of us will protest in an even more tangible way. By withdrawing our funding. That is probably the deciding factor for them. And it is one that they ignore at their peril.

 


Above article by BMCUWP

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Good read Bobby

Thetic

Another good read ,Lets hope we see an eager fitter crew tonight. If they play at the pace they played the last 10 mins of the St J game it will give me some hope the players are not as bad as they have looked so far this season

Chairbhoy

BMCUWPs…

Good lead, it highlights a lot of issues, a lot of bad practise and some well thoughtout solutions.

Of course the main issue is where we are and the unkowns. We can guess at what is driving the Board’s intransigience, we can guess what might happen in the future but at the moment it’s head scratching time.

It’s interesting going around social media, there are certainly a lot of wrong minded and wishful thinking Celts out there.

We will come good and Rangers will implode – really on what basis is that prediction made? To be fair we are seeing less of that.

Recently fholk stating we haven’t lost a trophy in years, as if the league cup defeat to Ross County didn’t happen.

Others stating PL hits all his KPIs – really!? How about UCL qualification? Bit hit and miss there.

The main one, Lenny is a Legend and we must stick by him. Very popular on FB that one.

I’m not sure what will allow the scales to fall from their eyes. We have two massive games in the next four weeks, last Seasons Scottish Cup final and January’s old firm clash.

If we win those does Lenny get to keep his job, is that what the Board are gambling on?

I hope the AGM shines some light on the way forward, still by this time next month it should be clearer, problem is though – not only our season but our Club could be in tatters by then.

Hail Hail

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

CHAIRBHOY

“problem is though – not only our season but our Club could be in tatters by then.”

That’s why I would prefer DD to get involved to put the club back on an even keel. If I’m honest,his hands-off approach has been as much to blame for this as Lawwell’s incompetence,etc,but there needs to be someone left at the wheel for the next stage.

Big Audio Dynamite

Love the Talking Heads reference (the only band who ever really mattered to me) there is a TH song for every mood.

Anybody got a match?

https://youtu.be/qQoXbqxdhWM

fan-a-tic

BMCUWP
Don’t think DD is as hands off as you would like to believe.
He has history for being willing to do what’s necessary to maximize his profit no matter the cost to others.
PL was well compensated for being a willing accomplice .

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

FAN-A-TIC

Perfectly plausible,mate. But he isn’t stupid. He might well have been mainly interested in the top line performance figures-like decent financials and a trophy haul-to the detriment of the business-but he isn’t stupid,and he has a certain reputation to uphold.

He won’t want his friends to even think of being in a position to goad him about a minor but high profile part of his empire. And while he has to bear a large part of the blame for this clusterfuck,I doubt that the running of the club can withstand the loss of the manager,the control freak CEO and the major shareholder at the same time. There has to be some continuity,but also with a defined path clearly laid out and explained.

The Gombeen Man

Good article BMCUWPS,

I’m not sure if France is Dermot’s favourite place at the moment?

Our wheeler dealer has owned 33.5% of the Latvian Bank, Rietumu since 2005 and sits on the Board.

Rietumu specialises in Offshore Banking and in 2017 was fined €80m for Aggravated Money Laundering by French Courts.

The Bank’s Chairman was given a four year suspended jail term, all subject to appeal.

In total 15 people received jail terms. Three of which were senior employees of Rietumu.

Rietumu has been trying to aggressively cull offshore accounts since American Regulators highlighted concerns about banking practices in Latvia.

There were concerns noted in the Irish media about banking practices in Latvia when Dermot got involved. Concerns were related to the influence of Russian gangsters.

https://eng.lsm.lv/article/economy/banks/latvian-bank-handed-80-million-euro-fine-in-france.a242443/hi

https://amp.independent.ie/business/world/desmond-linked-latvian-bank-suffers-14pc-profit-fall-39015405.html

Bobby, your hopes and wishes for the next 3 or 4 months are spot on IMO. I sincerely hope DD is thinking along the same lines, he might even regain some credibility with us.
In terms of recruitment, signing proven ready to play players should be the norm. I’m not totally against buying cheap to sell dear on occasion. But it should be the exception rather than the rule. Signing a young up and coming talent who has been properly scouted. Not a whole host of projects who are recommended to the CEO by his agent pals. Then forced on to a manager with a take it or leave it choice.
Of course your ‘plan of action’ would or should sort these kind of things out.

I wouldn’t know how to find out but I would love to know what the dividends for preferential shareholders were in recent years. How much does DD actually receive in £s per year. I can’t imagine it would be a life changing amount to him. His big money pot is the realisable value of his shares. That can fluctuate for several reasons. Not necessarily on current plc performance. For instance how much a potential buyer wants the major shareholding. What potential they see.
Or the love of a Club.
If only.

bada bing1

I can remember the days,when I used to look forward to watching Celtic….

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

BADABING

I’ve never been so glad for getting old-I can barely remember last week. Mind you,under lockdown it was probably like every other week. A bit like being a Celtic supporter these days.

Big Audio Dynamite

Thought I would spend the morning reading up on the Celtic Trust’s position on the events of the last 10years in Scottish football. I wanted to read their (The Trust itself, not individuals within the Trust) stated position on things like …

The 5WA
The death of Rangers football club
The continuity myth
Corruption in Scottish football
And the one most of us would like answered, Celtic’s involvement in all of the above
(Just a few examples of what I searched for)

After 3hrs, and no matter how many different ways I typed the wording of each question, I have found nothing! Nada, zero, zilch! I’m not saying info doesn’t exist, I’m saying that I can find anything online. If anyone knows their position on any of the above and can, could you link it here for the rest of us to read?

Outside of growing the number of registrations & subscriptions, what exactly have the Trust achieved in their 20years? Anything tangible? Is their stated aim change in the boardroom? Who, exactly, would they like to replace on the board, and with who?

The Gombeen Man

Just read Pedro’s blog.

The analysis was correct. A new manager will come in to sell SBs. It looks like they’re conceding 10.

Anyway,

BAD,

Fair play for doing the research into the CT’s past.

I’m sure the CT represent a bit of hope. But the Due Diligence you’ve been doing is a wise call.

Just straightforward good business practice.

1) Who are they?
2) Backgrounds.
3) Financial standing.
4) Relationship with the Board of CPlc.

Aims and objectives.

There are historic precedents of these things. going wrong.

It’s just better to start off on the right foot (which I’m sure is the case ).

Due Diligence.

We don’t need a Club 1888.

Fraser,

With the league all but conceded the runaway train has come off the tracks far too early.

This was supposed to be a managed deception but a combination of dishonesty, arrogance and karma has revealed to the mainstream, of the support the true nature of our Board and their bagmen.

No better than Sevco.

Till later.

One of the best articles on the Celtic debacle is over on ‘ THE CELTIC STAR ‘ article ‘ CELTIC’S MANAGED DECLINE AND THE MEN RESPONSIBLE ‘ by Niall J ; whole shitshow in a ‘nutshell’ .

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

BIGAUDIODYNAMITE.THEGOMBEENMAN

Seems that the CST stepped up a gear maybe two years back or so,and with the addition of David Low I reckon it is safe to judge them by their approach since then rather than their fledgling steps.

If I’m wrong,I’ll put my hands up to it. But we have to trust someone,that’s for sure.

Big Audio Dynamite

TGM, when I keep seeing fan reps say “We have liaised with the board” my spidey senses start tingling.

And if while meeting with the board they have their ever growing egos massaged, gorge themselves on champagne and prawn sandwiches, and then realise they prefer the comfy seats of the inner sanctum, what use are they then to us?

Dealing with Celtic PLC is akin to a novice playing a grandmaster at chess …they would always be many moves ahead of you ..and no matter what strategy you used, the grandmaster would always win in the end.

bada bing1

I think Donald Trump, will need to write the sales pitch for season tickets next year….

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

BIGAUDIODYNAMITE

Not everyone who deals with them reacts like that. The Resolutioners as an example. And I know a few others too,including a few bloggers. The way to deal with them is simple-treat it the same way I would a conversation with my Mum. Three steps in front,like as you suggest a game of chess. Or snooker.

Though my Mum can’t play either game,she still knows how to have me in checkmate,or snookered. I think of it as practice for the big stuff!

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

BADABING

What,send me money so I can use it for legal defences? Besides,I think some of our hierarchy would find an orange boiler suit quite appropriate.

The Gombeen Man

BMCUWPS,

Once bitten twice shy.

No point to signing-up to something that has any links with the Plc.

As we know the Plc strategy is keep us one step behind Sevco. Back of the bus.

I’d like to see commitments about 5WA, Res 12, Same club etc, etc.

Otherwise it’s just accepting the Old Fear (Firm.)

Pedro will have seen the success of the shenanigans of the Club 1872 model.

Can’t see the point in inflating the share price by buying stock without clarification of the objectives.

I’m sure the are all noble but the Old Firm has been an ongoing car crash for decades.

Good points though and a positive, I’m just cautious about being asked for money with no idea of to whom or what is the likely return/ downside.

The Gombeen Man

Bada,

Oot the League and Europe on the same day in December.
There’s a record the new coach hopefully won’t break.

If Pedro and Dermot feck off you’ll sell the stadium two or three times over…

They’re just trying to take the heat out of it and let it blow over before a new guy comes on.

We know from Lenny’s conference yesterday that he only expects a loan or maybe a permanent in, maybe late in January.

The Gombeen Man

BAD,

Yes a bit of power can be very corrupting. Just the way it goes.
That’s why senior executives are supposed to move on after a few years.

There are process and procedures in place to reduce the risk but they’re often ignored in Scotland.

I hope your boy’s ok. Not easy but you can only do your best. I’m sure he’ll understand in time.

My lad’s 22 and cancelled his new away jersey for Christmas. Says he’s never been this angry.

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THEGOMBEENMAN

Having met yer lad,I wouldn’t like to see him angry. And I certainly wouldn’t want to be considered responsible for it either!

The Star Above The Crest

BMCUWP

My mum can’t play chess or snooker either but during any negotiations I have with her she merely says ‘stop your bloody cairry on’ and I have to cease & desist otherwise I risk a beating. It seems Mammys will always have the upper hand even when you’re 40 😄

The Gombeen Man

BMCUWPS,

Yes he’s joining the CT.

Shame that they’ve blown their money on SBs etc.
Might be a valuable lesson in the long run.

Having said that he won £130 on Tuesday night with the CL results, so he seems to be getting over it.

I’ve got to figure out a new present though..

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

THESTARABOVETHECREST

I’ve not had to worry about physical violence from my Mum,at least not since Scholls went out of fashion. My Mum had one that seemed to work as a boomerang!

No,it’s just that look that does it for me. Ouch…

Not seen it for a good while fortunately. Either she’s mellowing or I’m wising up. Seems her new tactic is to lose the clothes that I leave behind when I visit,but that’s another story!

Big Audio Dynamite

TGM, appreciate that.

All I can do is make sure he is able to make informed choices 👍

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

THEGOMBEENMAN

Buy him a case of beer. Gets me through the odd bad result.

Big Audio Dynamite

Bobby, mum’s eh? With mine it can be just a micro-movement of one eyebrow …done!

The Gombeen Man

BMCUWPS,

Will do.
The way things are going I’ll need more than a case.

BAD,

You’re 100% right to be. Things will be clearer in time.

Big Audio Dynamite

From a mountain hideout in Obersalzberg – “The war is over, the 10 is gone”

Ah well! I’ll take a load of solace from the fact we were beaten by a great institution!

If this wasn’t so maddening, it really would be comical.

Margaret McGill

Bada
got you covered mate
I converted my kojo drivel generator into a trump tweeter:

First of all no one cares about season tickets as much as I do. I have talked about season tickets my whole career and think I have handled season tickets the best. I will do everything in my power to make season tickets better for the Celtic peepil.. For too long we have neglected season tickets.

Margaret McGill

10 in a row is one of the most over-rated things. I have never thought about 10 in a row but I have heard a lot of negative things. Just more very dishonest media! Sad!

Margaret McGill

I know words, I have the best words, like the Board recognises the range of views expressed by our folks and the strength of those opinions. Or, as I have been saying for a long time, and I think you’ll agree, because I said it to you once, whilst there may not always be agreement, there is certainly a common goal – the success of Celtic Football Club – and we will continue to work together to seek to achieve that success. But I will say, Did you know, Hillary Clinton created ISIS.

Magua

BMCUW

Good stuff above.

See all this talk about the CST buying up shares and crowd-funding to do so…it makes no sense to me.

Here’s the thing. Suppose the trust is successful, and ends up owning say 20% or so of all shares. Well, so what?

What’s to stop the PLC having a new share issue every few months, in order to make those shares virtually worthless?

Couldn’t happen? Think KKKlub 1872. These gullible baboons have seen their investments become worthless, thanks to the old DK switcheroo. A box of fag papers out of Poundland are worth more… despite investing millions.

There are more valuable ways of investing crowd-funded monies. For most of the board members of the PLC, this is a mere 2nd or even 3rd job. Find out what other companies these dolts work for and boycott THOSE companies also…and make public the reason for doing so. Name and shame every member of the PLC. The lapdogs as well as the top dogs.

Guaranteed that every one of these parasites is on a generous retainer, as well as a generous expense account.

Meanwhile, real Tims cannot afford to go to games. Club of the people? Aye, right.

If nothing else, shame these feckers into fairness. They have been living high on the hog for too long now.

Hail Hail

Gordon64

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Br3lHOrMCs Paolo Rossi-Espana 1982 6 goals

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

MAGUA

I was having a wee rest from social media over the last few days,catching up on some things. That meant that I didn’t welcome you to the site-and you clearly have the correct mindset for it! It’s no secret that here is the place for the cynic and the malcontent-in the opinion of others-or in our view,the place for people who have cottoned on earlier than most to the mistakes-I’ll go no further than that at the moment-made by our hierarchy.

So welcome aboard!

You raise a good point,and I can only give you three reasons to be cheerful. Parts 1,2 and 3 though Ian Dury probably said it better.

1-The involvement of David Low is IMO a game changer. He may not be The Messiah,but I doubt he will be a naughty boy.

2-TRIFCo diluted their shares because they aren’t listed. If the CST build up a holding,they can object to any dilution.

3-Cos otherwise we are stuck with Plan A. And the Plan B being looked at will take some fine tuning,so it won’t be knee jerk stuff. We have had this for 15-20 years and this is the first reasonable alternative proposition. I think it is worth investigating,but neither MAHE nor I have been able to recommend it yet due to lack of information. In fact,I’m not sure whether it is our place to do so.

I can’t speak for my co-host,but I am instinctively in favour if cautious.

big packy

AFTERNOON /EVENING ALL and JIM, MAGUA same as bobby, belated welcome to the blog👍

Rebus67

Magua,

That is a very good suggestion re boycotting the companies associated with board members. There needs to be some organising body that makes that work by providing info on the targeted companies plus the alternatives that should be used. I hope that that happens.

Bobby,

Great read. In fact, good reads over at etims and CQN for different reasons. On etims Ralph underscores a big issue that many are dealing with…..withdrawal symptoms from walking away from a constant in your life. Not easy, as I know, but getting a little easier as time goes by. Elsewhere we see one scenario of why NL was appointed and why he has to stay in place. Each is entitled to their opinion and that should be respected, but, in my opinion, there are so many holes in that scenario that I would be embarrassed to be associated with its construction.

I have served on boards and I know that not all that goes on there becomes public knowledge, and nor should it. However, you judge a board according to how it manages adversity, not on how it deals with prosperity. There is certainly a lot of adversity around now and it peaked very quickly! It looks like the board has conceded the league rather than spend a significant amount in changing the management team. The gamble here is that the club will not lose a significant number of season tickets renewals for next season.

I cannot speak for anyone else but my malaise has become worse. Initially, My point of inflection for returning financial support was a change in the management team, now it is, at the least, also a change in the CEO. Even then I am not sure I want to be bothered. I can watch EPL, Series A, Bundesliga and English Championship matches live for less than I pay for Celtic TV. Oh, and I get to see the Europa, and CL games live as well. Why would I return? The answer is the level of emotional attachment that I have to my club. It is just not the same watching Spurs vs Arsenal. I have no emotional buy in. However, I could see myself getting attached to teams such as Liverpool because of the historical Scottish interest there…..Shankly, Ian St John, Dalglish etc. Perhaps, I could be tempted by a few Spanish teams like Malaga, Seville or Bilboa because I like to visit these places.

Just as Celtic’s future is uncertain, so is my allegiance to a seriously flawed institution. I suspect I am not alone.

Rebus

bournesouprecipe

BMCUWP

Good shout,

‘it was too late’ when Covid19 halted the season early and the thought process along with it. They backed NL with real money, and look what they’ve done to our support.

The locus is on the men who blew the ten, Neil’s now officially a buffer and a patsy. Next up will be Celtic colts when there are no
more signings to fail from the bench.

Mahe

Howdy folks,
Hope all are well.

Re the Trust,
Auldheid has been asking for two types of members, some who join to boost numbers in order to give the Trusg more power. For example if you continue to blank us on issue x then we will propose our members skip the new shirt sale this year.
And also some who.join to help financially with the aim of building a shareholding.
This is on a ‘as much as you can afford’ basis which I like.

Totally understand the misgivings, and I haven’t endorsed them on here, but I do see good points. Some are wary of people getting elected then power hungry, well a fixed term helps folk not get too comfortable plus if those elected are drawn from the local community then they are more likely to actually try considering they live and mingle with Tims everyday, and will after their term is served.

Having enough shares to make a difference would be the key, but the Trust are working on getting minor shareholders to hand theirs over, and when added to what they buy, is hopefully enough to weild power of veto, which in effect can dictate a clubs direction. That’s what club72 are being offered.

I will try and find more info and perhaps get someone on to answer these questions but they should be on a high profile recruitment drive imo.

I hope it all works out and this is the fans vehicle we have waited for.

Hail Hail

Mahe

So it’s El Hamed and not Frimpong leaving. Still, we need a right back, a left back, a keeper, two central defenders.
And that’s just at the rear. Gulp!

TheTic

Rebus 4:54 just said exactly what I think but didn’t know how to write I made the choice of staying with CTV rather than Daizan for emotional reasons I diont watch sports like Ice Hockey or NFL football anymore as I don’t have enough emotional energy after Celtic
Thanks

bournesouprecipe

Heard Cameron Harper comes on tonight. 👍

bada bing1

Is there a Celtic minded pub in Moffat? Pretty sure there was a couple of years ago…

big packy

MAHE, we should put all our energy into removing the tory masonic board that sits in celtic park now,.IMHO

Mahe

BP,
When the board blow the ten officially is the time to strike. People want change, some can’t hang around after that.
Hail Hail

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