The PLC Model .. Can it still work ??
This season 2020/21 will go down in history for lots of reasons.
Primarily as the season we didn’t acheive the Holy Grail of 10 In A Row.
Also importantly though, it will go down in history for the PLC as the season the PLC lost the trust of the Celtic Support.
We need to go back to the summer of 2019 to chart when the PLC got it so badly wrong.
Dermot Desmond had a major decision to make in the summer of 2019, either to bring in another high calibre manager, and continue Celtic’s progress, or take a huge football and financial business risk and appoint Neil Lennon.
That he chose to appoint Neil Lennon, has proven to be a huge football and financial disaster.
Add in the factor of a pandemic and it has shown that the strategic PLC decision making was built on sand.
Without the PLC having proper structures and planning provisions in place, so much at the Club has simply fallen apart.
Season Ticket Model ??
Another major reason this season will go down in history, will be that in my opinion this will be the last ever season of full Season Ticket uptake under the PLC model.
I expect the PLC to sell in the region of about 25,000 – 30,000 Season Tickets for next season.
My opinion is not based on an organised boycott, but simply based on a major change of thought by many Celtic fans.
The Celtic support have given the PLC £80 Million over the last two seasons (£40 Million per season) between season tickets sales and merchandising.
I would be expect the figure this summer to be nearer £20 Million.
Whether this is due to Supporters losing a massive amount of trust in the PLC.
Or being severely pissed off at losing out on 10 IN A Row without even mounting a challenge.
It may come from anticipating that there will be very little football in season 21/22,
Or it could come from the PLC not questioning the fact that Sevco will only win their first league, not their 55th league.
Also add in Covid 19 and the horrendous toll it’s causing on human life, and also the financial carnage to so many families.
So What Now for the PLC.
Boardroom change was always likely to happen at the end of this season.
The decisions made back in the summer of 2019 will probably reduce the PLC customer base by 50% this summer.
Whilst no-one could have predicted Covid 19, it was possible to predict the decline of playing standards and of the team.
For the tsunami of both to collide together has been a complete disaster.
Brexit will also now mean changes in transfer rules which will also badly effect Celtic.
So from potentially building and planning properly in the summer of 2019, the PLC are now in a very difficult position.
Even with a new CEO, a new manager and some new players, there are real and difficult challenges ahead.
We are likely in my opinion to see a different ownership structure begin to formulate.
Any business that can potentially lose 50% of it’s customer base in a very short period of time due to poor Boardroom decision making, will have to take a reality check.
Once the new reality of a much reduced customer base has become clear, dialogue and then change will need to happen.
Ironically, the terrible decision making of the PLC, could now end up creating it’s own demise, with change being required.
The question then is simply how structured, organised and ready will the Celtic Support be to influence change in our Club?
Above by Celtic1Member1Vote
I think that a lot of fans have been sticking around going for the ten with their hearts.
At the same time their heads have been full of why the CEO ignored RES 12, more or less accepting the other mob cheating and bending the rules before it died, and now doing the same with the new club.
If you have played any kind of sport at what ever level, and you find out its rigged, then you find something else to do, that is going to be a big factor next season, it certainly is for me.
Another great leader no sugar coating on this site
Repost from earlier
Thank you Mahe
We felt we had to do something, working on a website which should be further along in a matter of days.
Thanks also to Rebus67 for the idea of a petition, please sign if you agree with us.
@ForCelts on Twitter please follow us if you want change.
I was the C of SACK back in the day
Dig deep please if you can,folks. Posted by a good Tim in memory of his 25yo son.
Wee treat for TWISTY,further episodes should be on the sidebar.
Sadly,I can’t see the Plc model ceasing to exist. The current owners have around £100m invested in it at current share price levels. They are unlikely to gift that to the fans,and any potential sale might be to new owners of the vulture capitalist type.
That is not to say that our current owners have been entirely benevolent during this period,more to suggest that they have adopted a largely hands-off approach and allowed the club to carry on-as long as it is cash-positive and self-sustaining. Their major mistake though has been to entrust the leadership to someone who has neither footballing ambition nor innovation,and allowed the board of directors to become hidebound and stale.
So if we are stuck with the Plc model,as I believe we are,the major shareholders need to take a greater interest in how the company performs in its major function-that of a football club. We must retreat from this idea that we are a business whose income is derived from a football club,and return to the format of being a football club backed by a sound and evolving business model.
In an ideal world,we would all love it to be true that it is Celtic FC,not Plc. Sadly,that is no longer the case. But we can surely pay more attention to Celtic FC,not Plc. That would be a step in the right direction.
Thanks . I’ll look at that later.
A wee addendum to that story about Mark
I said to him one day, “ you remind me of Fred Dibnah”
He told me “ I’m a big fan of his. I’ve got his book!”
Didn’t surprise me.
No work today. Just woke up at 8am. I’ve no idea how anyone can sleep as long as that. I feel bloody awful. It’ll take me to midday to come to.
Well whatdya know.
Here’s us been throwing ideas into the hat regarding what is needed at Celtic.
Garry, ATOB, Mahe, Bobby, Oglach et al
All yer suggestions, all yer potential managers, you could’ve saved yersel time and energy.
All you had to do was ask Chick Young.
“ Celtic should appoint John Hughes as manager”
Call yersel fitba people? How did yez not spot that one??
Great article, I wish you every success with the campaign.
Celtic became a Limited Company in 1897 by 1904 cartoonists were producing cartoons satirising the Old Firm.
One that sticks in my mind is the billboard before the Cup Final of 1904 stating “Patronise the Old Firm. Celtic and Rangers Limited.”
A business relationship is one thing but our failure to put clear green water between ourselves and the scene of crime known as Rangers is not only baffling but detrimental to the club, supporters and players
Neil’s comments on Monday took our focus off the unfolding fallout from the malicious prosecution of Woodhouse and Clark.
In excess of £21m already paid out and several other damaged parties awaiting settlement?
Two Lord Advocates, QCs the Police all with their reputations in tatters.
The much criticised politicisation of the role of Lord Advocate was put into further doubt by the Ibrox case.
The Lord Advocate’s controversial immunity from legal action was thrown out by judges during the civil action for damages by Whitehouse and Clark.
All huge stuff but tragically ignored by many who are distracted by our onfield and offield shambles/soap opera.
On every level from performances to recruitment, the bizarre campaign to get supporters back into the ground, to Dubai. We’ve been an embarrassment.
The underlying problem is that the problems are rooted in our failure to confront the meltdown at Ibrox after years of cheating.
It’s not going away and Res 12 is a key factor in this story.
The ongoing financial troubles at Ibrox. Lack of meaningful competition, the prospect of selling 11 in a Row. Must have had some bearing on the thinking processes, which have led to this season’s fiasco.
Nobody wants to see or bet on a one horse race.
Better to bite the bullet and save the guaranteed earner of the OF…
But at what cost?
The Ibrox Problem is now clearly linked with senior politicians, lawyers, police officers, the administration of the game in Scotland and Celtic Plc.
For how long will the Celtic support allow themselves to be treated as second class citizens by the Plc, SFA/SPFL, the political and legal system?
With the Celtic Boy’s Club cases also in the background it’s questionable whether a new coach will be enough to distract many for long.
The Celtic support face a difficult period in the Old Firm cycle. It’s a manufactured perfect storm. The only positive is that the interconnected nature of the fraud is being exposed as this unfolds.
I guess tribalism is still rife in Scotland. Most of us are conditioned by it and are completely unconscious. Entrenched in political, religious and social divisions.
The main protagonists in this facade are ‘banking’ on the supporters remaining fixated by the Old Fraud.
How many will wake up?
Wee Nicola had some paint work carried out I see.
Whistleblower tells us work was done in her Bute residence.
Q Thought it wasn’t permitted to have interior decorators in during lockdown
A it was essential ceiling work.
Well there ye go then.
I’m off to B and Q to get a tin of essential emulsion.
Morning all but especially The Gombeen Man…a superb post!
We’ve been called “entitled” by some as we’ve taken the huff at our plc/fitba operations this year. As you highlight the real focus should be elsewhere. Awe Naw has been posting about this, too and it seems that the BIG story is being permitted to quietly play out in the background while we moan about Ten In A Row having slipped away. What appears straightforward to most, the process of running a fitba club, and what is straightforward to fewer, the process of running a Public Limited Company, is actually a complex paradox….
Demands for Celtic to replace Lawell via a petition can have no basis in the thinking of the PLC management because of the fans’ recalcitrance towards him or their belief that the PLC model has failed. The PLC model hasn’t failed, not yet anyway but the standards to which they operate are now being openly questioned by its customers. The football model has failed but it’s not failed completely. We have had years and years of financial and football success – ergo a successful PLC model. The failures, from a PLC perspective could easily be explained in next year’s Annual Accounts as a result of the exceptional circumstances of this year.
But as supporters we’ll never forget the loss of the Ten, the dramatic failure to continue our hugely successful period. Or the perceived recaltricance of our custodians with regards to how the plc have ended up here.
I haven’t signed the Petition yet, not because I don’t agree with the sentiment, but because in its original draft it appeared to be hurriedly put together, badly worded and amateurish. It now looks like it has been rewritten and the latest draft too seems petty and without really hitting the point.
Lawell’s time is up! But not because of our failures this season but because he’s party to the huge story being played out at levels far above the importance of a draw at Livingstone. Forget for a moment all the good work done by Auldheid and the Resolutioners Lawell’s time was up when he failed to challenge the 5 Way Agreement! Had that been challenged at the time by an open and honest CFC Board I doubt if we would be where we are today, in both a fitba and social sense.
All Hail The Gombeen Man… Hail Hail!!
Damien Duff chucking the Republic assistant job was strange…..he could be part of something
Very possibly. Apparently he was well regarded at CP
McCaff, If the petition had included words like recalcitrance in it, would it have been more acceptable to you? 🙂
Morning Jim…recalcitrant pedantry is a lasting memory of you from my youth! 😉🤣🤣🤣
Signing the petition-or not-is a personal choice,but you don’t have to agree with the wording of it-only the sentiment behind it.
Samantha Power on Desert Island Discs-Worth a listen and some good tunes https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000rbp3?at_campaign=64&at_custom2=twitter&at_custom4=95288DEC-5733-11EB-80D3-6C680EDC252D&at_custom1=%5Bpost+type%5D&at_custom3=%40BBCRadio4&at_medium=custom7
Bobby, yeah I get that, and apologies to CeltsForChange2021 for being so blunt about it. But perhaps the reason there hasn’t been as many signatories as expected is for that reason – that it doesn’t explain fully why Lawell should be replaced! In my mind it reads as a petty attempt because things aren’t quite going our way!
IMO if a Celtic supporter doesn’t know the reasons why PL should be removed by now the wording of a petition asking for his removal is hardly relevant.
Oglach…so why have only 150 people signed?
Awareness, or rather the lack of it, of the petition is obviously one thing.
Why,in this era of multiple social media platforms, are the Celtic support,so badly organised, and informed?
Apathy and due to most not really giving a f*ck anymore. How many fans have signed up for the CST? Certainly no where near the numbers they had hoped for despite their appeal for new members being well publicised. As i have mentioned before on here the ‘Rebs’ in the Celtic support prepared to do anything are few in number.
Now on the off chance that the ‘support’ do not know or care about the 5wa, PL’s less than honourable treatment of the res 12 petitioners, his lying to the shareholders during an AGM, his influence in every waste of money project brought to the club or our best assets being sold and replacing them with sub standard players while raking in eye watering amounts of money in salary and bonus payments for himself – then hell mend them all, they as they have the club they deserve, all imho of course.
Agreed Bada Bing, on Celtic blogs the Petition link would need to appear at least twice per day, if allowed, to catch most of the readers. As far as I’m aware the main catchment area is Twitter et. al. I’m not on that type of media so I don’t know if it is getting much of a mention.
I reckon Celtic plc could have lent TRFC £25m to keep them alive and it still wouldn’t be enough for some of the support to call it a day.
That’s not a criticism by the way, it’s an opinion.
I asked my son yesterday if he had signed. His response was he hasn’t seen it. He said “ it cannot be on Twitter?”
I told him I’m not on Twitter myself but I’m sure it must be?
He didn’t seem to think so
Yes that’s what I mean Twisty. The folk behind the petition need to be getting it out there. I did a bit on the first day and someone else from here did likewise on CQN, but that’s about it?
Oglach… I’ve been following the situation since the days of Rangers Tax Case, Paul McConville onto Phil and then JJ. In all those years when I’ve had conversations with mates or family, in any social situation, the ignorance of the situation can be staggering! I’ve been called all sorts of things from obsessed to being a bigot because of it.
Regarding the CST they’ve so far burned their boat with me at the moment as their refusal to pursue Res12/11 has compromised their position. I’m still interested in seeing how things progress regarding their shareholding purchasing/accruing goes but I’ve got a niggle gnawing away at me about David Low, I’m not sure I trust him enough.
And here’s another less discussed aspect…some people just aren’t interested and just want to watch fitba, taking the highs and lows without needing to discern any underlying reasons for successes or failures.
That is my experience too, in talking to many Celtic supporters. Most are ignorant to the issues in Scottish football since 2012, or simply don’t care. They are only interested in on field matters. There are many ‘Old Firm’ Celtic supporters too, who just want a form of the huns to play. Many of them are quiet just now though. All was well when we were pumping the tribute act in our procession towards 10 in a row.
I don’t know if it’s so much that the PLC model isn’t fit for purpose. It’s doing what the majority shareholder(s) want it to do. It’s up to the customers to stop buying their product.
It’s really the Old Firm/establishment model that’s not fit. It’ll be used to divide no matter who runs the show until Scottish society matures.
Maybe one day it’ll develop into what we see in Merseyside but there are an awful lot of factors at play.
It beggars belief really.
And they told us Dave King was a Fit and Proper Person to run a football club.
Allegedly the bold Dave obtains the Charlotte Fake tapes, for £25k. Those tapes end up in the hands of a senior policeman who conducts an investigation.
The result of the investigation is a Malicious Prosecution which will cost the Crown not only it’s reputation but tens of millions in compensation (some say up to £70m).
Two Lord Advocates reputations in tatters. The Office of the Lord Advocate in tatters.
The senior cop has spent over 200 hours being interviewed by lawyers and was accused by a witness during the investigation of singing the Billy Boys during questioning.
Meanwhile unpaid taxes at Ibrox continue and referees carry on regardless.
All because nobody had the cojones to follow through with the liquidation process and accept the winding up process meant the demise of Rangers.
The Rangers story will take down quite a few.
Maybe it’s meant just to highlight the toxicity of the whole thing?
Celts for change 2021 @ForCelts is their Twitter acc
Celtsforchange2021.com is their website address
If you can promote the 2 then numbers hopefully will increase as the message spreads
The proverbial has hit the fan. All the manoeuvering by the establishment to suit the Rangers narrative has cost the public tens of millions.
This story started well before 2012 and Celtic are a somewhat reluctant part of the establishment.
Two Lord Advocates are now compromised. At least one very senior QC, who also assisted the SFA in it’s enquiry into the implications of the Big Tax Case.
The Lord Advocate has lost his/her immunity. This has been resisted for years.
The Lord Advocate’s position as a member of Government is also compromised.
It’ll run and run, somebody will have to cough up the tens of millions of pounds.
Keep your eyes on the cases as they receive their compensation and start asking politicians what’s going on here.
I don’t think many of us grasp the significance of what’s going on.
There needs to be a wide ranging enquiry to clear out this network once and for all.
I like you have little faith in the CST due to their ‘committee decision’ not to take up the mantle and pursue Res 12. However i was using the CST as an example of supporter apathy. Supporters / share holders are not signing up in the numbers hoped for despite their appeal being widely publicised and supported by the likes of the Green Brigade and this an organisation which it has claimed does not seek confrontation with the Celtic PLC / board, a stance which one would assume would appeal to a wider spectrum of Celtic fans.
I guess that apathy may yet result in a much reduced uptake in ST and that will prompt DD and the board to take action. Albeit probably no more than the veneer of a new manager and possibly CEO but with no real change to either of the ‘Old Firm’ and ‘business supported by a football club’ strategies that brought us to this juncture.
I’ve been following the story about those malicious prosecutions from the early days. JohnJamesSite is about the only place where there is any mention of it,and it has another article on the subject today.
Although I genuinely have no idea why anyone thought prosecuting the people in question was a good idea-and AWENAW’s theories yesterday gave me a headache as I tried to join the dots-there is little doubt that the reasoning behind it all had nothing to do with either law or justice. That the paper trail leads straight to the top should have the MSM all over it,yet there is very little to be read anywhere. I did,though,manage to find this from today’s Herald.
The pravda type editorial, is why I don’t go near CQN anymore.
That article is simply board propaganda.
Lawwell going nowhere.
Succession planning now. Should have been happening years ago.
They are winging it.
Garry / Bada
I see it as more of a ‘let’s wait to see what the ST uptake is like 1st’ . Absolute ‘boak’ inducing sycophantic stuff from the other channel – do people actually believe that pish!!!!
‘Giein me the boak’ CSC
If I had paid £666 for the VST for this season, the price of the Season Ticket I gave up in 2019, I would be writing to Celtic demanding a refund for this season. This lot need starved of cash. It is the only language that Accountants understand.
Loved the CQN article today. Backed up my “theories” perfectly.
We are basically in the last chance saloon to determine.
What is Scottish football i.e what shape will the Old Firm take ?
A vibrant 65/35 share of the spoils (back to normal)
or a league where Sevco have to face living with quadruple trebles and them the occasional win to help sustain them 15/85 (i.e what our PLC desire)
I do believe that once Sevco stop having the benefit of 15m quid external financial gifts year upon year we will cut our cloth accordingly so that the 0/100 share we seen recently will slowly return to the desired 50/50 share, when Celtic PLC can rely on Sevco PLC to act with fiscal responsibility unless WE in the meantime can get access to another league (Very doubtful)
I do hope that Neil Lennon gets a proper coaching team in place for the start of next season and not Peters mates and that a football structure where appointing your inexperienced mates is no longer acceptable and that Neil Lennon as manager has 100% control over football operations and any Brendan/Lennon type of PLC dissent is not met with your jotters.
Any flimsy boycott should be left to the summer.
You are spot on with your blog and your final question is key especially if The Board realise that without engaging properly with the support in meaningful dialogue is the only way out of their mess.
Perhaps that will come up for discussion at the CST Zoom meeting and who knows some of my thoughts might even get discussed although maybe I was just thinking too far ahead. There is a huge capacity building job there and it is a matter of finding the right skills from within the large support base to fill the capacity. Here is my thinking put to CST on 4the December. Hopefully some will get considered.
The following are some thoughts for CST to consider to help make Celtic more accountable to their support based on experience of pursuing Resolution 12.
1. Suggest CST change name from CST to the Registered Name: Celtic Supporters’ Society Limited Company Number: IP29147R so that it is clear CST is open to supporters and shareholders alike.
2. Give supporters without shares a reason to join more than buying shares to enable CST to speak for them . Make use of technology and harness social media to identify representational issues, seeks views and act on them after gaining consensus.
3. Revisit the CST Constitution to see if it needs changing to reflect what in effect would be a re branding and whatever aims , objectives and roles the rebranded organisation take on.
4. Expand the new organisation to cover many thousands of Celtic supporters, ST Holders, Celtic TV subscribers, etc to give them added authority when raising issues with The Board.
5. Give each member a membership card with a membership number.
6. Be prepared to use the financial investment supporters make in Celtic to challenge what is in the Company’s interest where resistance is being met by The Board with no good reason.
7. Make the Celtic Board more accountable and transparent as a result.
8. Use subscriptions to fund share purchases, set up legal cost fund (you need lawyers to argue your case with Celtic/SPFL/SFA Lawyers) and pay someone to administer /manage the expanded membership.
9. Reshape web site to capture emerging issues, keep track of them and keep membership up to date on issues
10. Invite contributions from Celtic supporters that align with organisations aims for publishing on the web site.
11. Allow for a much expanded AGM and look at how it might be set up, perhaps using same technology as the Open Meeting on Zoom.
12. Encourage volunteers with specific expertise to join sub committees to cover separate issues where particular knowledge is needed.
13. Set agendas and invite Celtic to attend rather than be invited to meetings in small groups and encourage two way dialogue with Celtic as a prerequisite for restoring trust.
14. Disabuse The Celtic Board of any notion the Celtic support are not capable of rational engagement.
Res 12 Lessons.
1. Much bigger support baseline needed.
2. Celtic use the lack of such to ignore pursuing issues
3. Legal fund absolute necessary to establish shareholder rights and Director responsibilities and challenge legal reasons used to obstruct progress.
4. Media are under Celtic’s thumb, many journalists briefed on Res12 evidence, none followed up because it is not in their interests, so a respected presence on Social Media required to get any message out.
5. Make a connection between business issues being pursued and results on the park so that there is a greater understanding of the importance of having a Board that is accountable as symptoms of poor business practice manifest themselves on the field of play.
6. A lot of hard work involved but easier if spread over a larger organisation with a wider resource base to call on..
My brother in law is a dyed in the wool Dundee FC fan and he has a better grasp on what has occurred since 2012 than most Celtic supporters I know. They only care that we win trophies and stick it to “they orange bastards” sad, state of affairs. For the record, there have been some exceptional headers and replies in the comments on Sentinel Celts of late from the folk on here, maybe the ‘custodians’ could visit sites like this or Etims, ACSOM etc where they will definitely feel the pulse of the support and what our realistic expectations are.
Hibs and Aberdeen will finish above us this season
As Bada has alluded to.
Peter didn’t like the reaction to his apology, so he has fed his favourite journalist McGowan and his favourite bloggers ( not Sentinel Celts ) about the January review.
What a contemptuous way to treat the fans, what a surprise, not.
What a way to run a club.
Pathetic but not unexpected.
It’s all about the cash, for them.
Of course it is all about the cash.
That’s why they need starved of it.
The love of money, is the root of all evil.
Supporters who purchased VST’s for this season should apply for a refund, and refuse to renew for next season.
Starve them out.
Indeed, my friend.
I think Lawwell has made it very difficult for refunds on the VST. There will be some clause in the T/C
Garry, the T&C’s were completely rewritten this year for the STs to protect the Club against any refunds. Perhaps a claim of being mis-sold on the basis of expectation of entertainment would have the best chance of success! 🤔😁
No doubt he has included a no refunds policy in the T’s & C’s.
If enough supporters wrote to him requesting a refund and also their refusal to renew for next season, it would give him and the Board parasites, food for thought.
Yes, it was a case of once bitten, twice shy
Lawwell said he was surprised at how many had asked for refunds last season, so amended T&Cs this season.
The only power the fans have is season ticket money.
The next two months are massive, in how the club progresses or not, as the case maybe.
The thing that upsets me the most is,with Neil staying to the end of the season and no immediate review, that my favourite poster Rebus, may not come back on.
What was the phrasing of the sales pitch?
Something like ‘added value or benefits for supporters who purchased the VST’?
Have they provided added value?