Costing Failure

Morning,all.

Today is exactly two years since our best manager since Martin O’Neill,and probably our best since Jock Stein,walked out on our club. If a week is a long time in politics,then two years is an age in football. Brendan Rodgers arrived at the club less than three years earlier,and left having won all seven domestic trophies available and well on the way to an incredible Treble Treble.

All of us were,of course,furious at his timing. Walking out halfway through the season was and still is unforgiveable,but a great many of us knew the reason why he would agree to do so. In fact,it was the same reason why MAHE and I had decided to set this site up less than six months previously-and that was the interference by Peter Lawwell,which amounted to Lawwell preventing Rodgers from doing his job. His job was to get the players requested by Rodgers-as long as they were within the budget-but he either signed who he liked and foisted them unbidden onto Rodgers,or simply didn’t bother completing requested deals,preferring instead to lowball the selling club and incoming player to the point where refusal by either or both was the inevitable outcome.

And he had a bad habit too of getting involved in pissing competitions with certain selling chairmen,people who would harbour that grudge in the future. And Lawwell is not the type to be held over a barrel. He’ll show everyone who’s boss,asking prices will not be met,no sirree.

The reason I bring this up now is the recent suggestion by Neil Lennon of mitigating circumstances behind the scenes which have led-in part at least-to this season’s horror story. His departure from the club,hard on the heels of the announcement that Lawwell would be leaving in the summer,has seen some clarifications offered in the media about the aborted transfer of Ivan Toney from Peterborough,who eventually went to Brentford.

We were told at the time that the deal fell through because Peterborough wanted £10m,and Celtic did not value him at that price. Which is fair enough-Brentford apparently paid £5m,with add-ons bringing it to a potential £10m. I’d suggest that with 24 goals already this season,and Brentford well placed for promotion,a fair amount of those add-ons will soon be realised. And he is already being spoken of as a £30m target for other clubs. Does PL have history here,history which might explain why a £6m deal for the player-who was actually at the ground to complete a deal with us!-fell through,and is it an example of a pissing competition with a chairman from the past?

I reckon so. Who can remember Lee Tomlin? Celtic had apparently agreed a £2.5m deal for him six or seven years ago,only to try to chisel down the offer to the club and player at the last minute. The deal didn’t happen,and Peterborough chairman Darragh McAnthony was scathing about the process,and Lawwell in particular. He had the upper hand this time,and made it plain,but Lawwell isn’t the type to accept that. So we signed Ajeti instead,the comments about needing to sell Eddie first being just a pack of lies.

What about Lawwell’s dealings with Petrie at Hibs? He refused to meet the asking price for Fletcher in 2009,having overpaid,in his opinion,for Scott Brown. So when the deal for John McGinn was set up thirty months ago,everything in place with just the final input required from PL,back came the grudges. Lawwell refused to pay the asking price,and let it be known that we would sign him for free on a pre-contract in January. Aston Villa agreed to meet the asking price and Lawwell ignominiously folded,but quite rightly McGinn had had enough and was off to Brum.

It isn’t always like this,of course. Lawwell doesn’t have grudges against everyone. After all,a phone call from Dudu Dahan,and a deal is done virtually on the spot! I struggle to think of any real successes from that avenue of communication,right enough,and I wonder how many times we have lost out on players in the past because of Lawwell’s brinkmanship. Those two players alone are a combined current value of £80m. Would they have enhanced too our chances of progress in Europe,bringing further millions into the club,and with them the ability to sign more and better players? We will never know,because The Lawwell Strategy put paid to any of that.

Just like two years ago-and I’ll put a link to my article then on the subject-when he got rid of a top manager and backroom team,he has to be seen to be calling the shots. And replacing a £5m a year management team with Neil Lennon on about a tenth of that was good business,wasn’t it? It saved us about £9m over two years-didn’t it?

Well,let me put it this way. Trying to save about a million quid on the two deals mentioned above has cost us about £80m. And saving that £9m on management costs? That’s probably cost us another £80m,and left us with a massive rebuild cost to boot.

I’ve said before that history will not be kind to Lawwell,even as he was being lauded to the skies elsewhere. But this particular history has already been written,it is only the cost of leaving this man in charge for so long that has yet to be finalised. Celtic will be paying that for a long time to come.

*****
Above article by BMCUWP

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BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

Wee quiz question for you,folks. Answer around 530pm

What connects the current Celtic caretaker manager to former Celtic manager Tony Mowbray? Nothing to do with football,btw.

Garry

BMCUW
Tony Mowbray’s date of birth?
22nd November 1963.
John F Kennedy assassinated.

Fantastic posts today.

My own small contribution will be all over the shop, because I’m severely conflicted by the JK appointment.

I’m still not sure what he brings to the party, but having survived a few managers he must be doing something right.

My own gut feeling, was that JK should have been given the boot along with NFL, in the sense of sharing collective responsibility for the severe downturn in every aspect of the club since May 2019.

However, it is what it is, as they say. The man is in the hotseat for the foreseeable future. As Celts we are now duty bound to support him, till a new manager is in place.

Here’s the conflicting part for me. Suppose JK is phenomenally successful, and wins all remaining league games. Would DD pull another one by giving JK the job? Short term success would equal long-term failure, and it would be back to the same old crap, come next season.

Like many Celts I am as confused, angry and downright pissed-aff with all that has happened since the shower appointment.

My only consolation will be the massive celebration that will surely happen, once Lawwell departs.

Hail Hail.

big packy

this is a true story, wee joans mum is 90 years old, she is not getting any younger, she has got a small cast iron safe in her bungalow bolted underneath the floorboards, ive said to wee joan get the combination of the safe off her incase god forbid something happens to her, or ill be searching the internet for a stick of dynamite 😎😎

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

CHAIRBHOY

Cheers,mate. And thanks also to LAMBERT14 for putting the article up there.

The Thursday night moonhowling shift used to have the regulars choking on their cornflakes,so it’s nice to see a continuation of an old tradition!

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

GARRY

In Like Flynn! Well done,that man.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

BIGPACKY

You sure you want that info on a public site?

fan-a-tic

Magua
(Here’s the conflicting part for me. Suppose JK is phenomenally successful, and wins all remaining league games. Would DD pull another one by giving JK the job?)
PROBABLY!
He is our de facto emperor and cares little what the fans think.

big packy

MAGUA ,the basturt wont go till he gets his money off the guy with the funny moustache, to be honest i wont rid of dermot and bankier, and whoever else has been in charge for the past decade, a feckin deid team are now in the latter stages of the europa league, yes let that sink in a team that desmond and bankier and lawwell let back in because of the bigot buck, fucking charlatans the lot of them, H.H.

big packy

BOBBY, only wee joan and myself know where she lives????

Garry

BMCUW
It is amazing some things that stick in your mind. I remember Tony Mowbray mentioned that he was born the day of JFK’s assassination.
Wasn’t sure if that was the answer, but John Kennedy’s nickname at Celtic is ‘The President’, so reckoned maybe. 😊

Angel Gabriel

Auldheid 3.03pm

Thanks very much for the reply.
The “Implications “ indeed .
Beyond belief.
I’ll be using that quote when Celtic send my season book renewal form.

Thanks P, for the time and effort you put into exposing the sham of our not so beautiful game.

Big Packy

In March 94 I was bitterly angry that 3 of those feckers that were part of the Ancien Regime were kept on.

Was not happy till every last one of them were gone.

Feel much the same now.

Hope you’re keeping well pal.

Hail Hail

big packy

MAGUA, ok pal, just feckin raging that the mob from govan have got the upper hand, courtesy of the 3 wise men ,bankier lawwell and desmond,.hope you are well pal.H.H.

timhorton

We might have to fight for second,Hibs are in sight.
Seeing the teams we could get in the qualifying rounds it will be a hard road to the group stages.
Don’t envy the new coach………..not much time.

Cheer up Packy, we live in hope! We have a new CEO coming in and a new manager to be appointed. God only knows how that will work out – but it might! 🙂

rebus67

One concern that I have is whether PL has really gone. Sure he is stepping down as CEO but will he appear on the Board? If so, DM will be reporting to him(and others).

If this happens the game is a bogie as far as I am concerned!

I hate that the club has made me paranoid like this! It is not me.

On JK, he deserves a chance but I do not see that 8 games is enough to assess him. It would be madness to appoint him on the basis of these games. It would also be a mistake to assess his future as a coach on the basis of these games.

Rebus

JimmynotPaul

Rebus. 5.59.
I think, Lawwell will be involved in some capacity.

Mike in Toronto

Magua @ 5:05

However, it is what it is, as they say. The man is in the hotseat for the foreseeable future. As Celts we are now duty bound to support him, till a new manager is in place.

****

Magua, can you explain why you feel that is the case. Why, simply because someone is the incumbent, are we duty bound to support him?

I have asked this, or similar, question many times on the other site, and never got a particularly satisfactory answer. Normally, I would get ‘faithful through and through’ or some variation of it… which, is not really an answer, at least not a good one, as far as I am concerned

And, not a dig at you… I have rather enjoyed your contribution to the blog… but you happened to post something that got me thinking, so I am responding to you. Obviously, I would I am sure enjoy hearing your response, but would equally appreciate anyone else’s thoughts.

If someone lives in Britain, are they similarly duty bound to follows BoJo?. Or were all Americans duty bound to follow the Oompa Loompa for 4 years? (can I be there when we break this to Fan?)

Sola fide is a belief system at odds with the belief system of our founding Father, and with good reason (if you will pardon the pun). As the Doc once said, “The truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidels if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false.”

Personally, I never bought the whole ‘we never looked at any other candidates before offering NFL the job in the showers’ malarkey …. it is as believable as PL’s ‘I’ve never seen the 5WA’… either complete lies (which should disentitle the speaker from holding any job of any consequence) or complete negligence (which should also render the speaker unable to hold any such position).

In order to have the best outcome, we need to follow the best process. We have seen how failing to prepare each seasons for CL hinders the chances of proceeding. Similarly, what process was followed to hire a new CEO? Is here involved at present behind the scenes? If not, we are once again compromising our chances of doing well in Europe next season by failing to prepare in a timely manner.

What processes were followed in selecting JK, even on an interim basis? The fact that he has survived three regimes is, to me, a warning sign: the longer he stays involved, the worse we seem to be getting…. or, three different regimes have not recognized his value,so aren’t listening to him…. neither scenario screams ‘hire me!’

Would we feel the same if PL had decided to appoint himself as manager until the end of the season?

‘Faithful through and through’ is a slogan … an advertising jingle … not a way to run a team or a business.

Rebus67@ 5.59

FFS FFS AND FFS AGAIN.

Had not considered for one moment that that fecker could be kicked upstairs.

I am still in shock and will need to calm down by sinking the cargo that I was keeping for the morra.

Thank feck for the Sentinel Celts Support group for distressed Timmalloys.

Hail Hail.

Mike in Toronto

on unrelated matters (maybe)….

watched John Higgins’ match last night … was on fire!

Apparently, a larger than life size Gold statute of Donald Trump is on display at the Republican CPAC conference. (I’m not shitting. you… see the link below)… wonder if Charlton Heston will be attending, and if he might feel a bit conflicted?

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/golden-calf-statue-of-donald-trump-sparks-biblical-ridicule-at-cpac/ar-BB1e37s3?li=AAggNb9

JimmynotPaul

Magua. 6.10.
I posted a while back about Lawwell.
I can’t find it now but there was a wording in a communication that hinted he would still be around, now whether that just meant to help the new CEO or not, if required, I don’t know.
It was the usual corporate double speak.
Although having just read back his statement, he does say, he will be there to help Dominic and then…
While retiring from Celtic in the summer, I will now look forward to other challenges. Inevitably, the role I have occupied also creates pressures and demands which are not always confined to me alone. So, above all, I thank my wife and family for their support and encouragement at all times. We will all continue to support the Club with the same love and passion we always have.”

Hopefully that suggests, he is actually leaving Celtic, full stop.

MIT

Am in no way offended by your enquiry. I will qualify my answer by saying that I personally feel duty bound to support JK as long as he is an interim appointment. The alternative for me would be wishing to see him fail. I was in that position with WGS when he was appointed interim manager. It took me a good while to warm to him. Thought it best not to make the same mistake again…but I will not be a happy camper if he gets the permanent gig.

Hail Hail.

Chairbhoy

Auldheid @ 1:43 pm,

Very interesting piece, our failure not to pursue Rangers past and present financial doping is telling.

The past excuse “never interrupt your enemy when they are making a mistake”, was either wrong minded or deflection, with all that’s gone on since deflection would be my bet.

When we were turning over three times as much as the Newco, it was said our huge financial advantage would see us dominate Scottish Football ad-infinitum.

My thoughts were, if we are putting 50% into the “Club” and they are putting 150%, That’s a leveller.

Also the fact our Directors were taking Millions out of the Club, their Directors were piling Millions into their Club.

That showed intent.

Domestic FFP was a must but never pursued, arrogance and indolence once again were at play?

As Celtic have never reproached their new, old firm partners on anything, maybe they are thinking, some skeletons are better left in closets.

Hail Hail

Mike in Toronto

Magua

Is the alternative to wanting JK to succeed, wanting him to fail? I am not sure that is the case.

but I am going to go and try to get a haircut, so a longer (I won’t say more thoughtful) reply will have to wait.

Garry

Bada
CQN poster Stuart Braithwaite of Mogwai will be happy tonight 👍

I would be astonished if Peter Lawwell was asked to remain on the Board as a Non Executive Director. Surely even DD couldn’t be that stupid? I doubt if the new CEO would have accepted the job under those conditions.

big packy

JIM ,long time no speak😎😎 hope you are well pal, im coming up from cheshire for the title party, going to borrow your rangers scarf, then garry delaneys then maguas and finally aswgl and mcaffs rangers scarves, not going to wave them, just burn the feckin things, what a bonfire.,another true story,😎😎.does solkitts still post on here,asking for a friend😎😎 sol im in billericay at the moment do i turn left or right for the festival park😎

You might as well have our orange sashes whilst your at it!

Garry

BP
Our leader Nicola, won’t let you cross the border into Scotland pal. 😜😂

JNP @ 18.24

Thanks for your post. Stay safe.

Hail Hail.

big packy

GARRY, let her try and stop me us lanarkshire bhoys can fight especially when we are full of buckfast 😎😎😎

big packy

JIM i want your orange sashes as well, will keep the bonfire going.😎😎

bada bing1

Garry- story features on BBC Scotland Sky 115 ,The Seven in a couple of minutes…

Garry

BP
Those Ayrshire women are hard as nails, without dutch courage of alcohol. Good luck wi that one. 😁😂

Nae bother MIT

Catch you later. You’ve got me thinking about this site. It would be a terrible thing , would it not, if SC was some sort of sounding board for a bunch of folk that shared the same opinions?

A fenian ‘Follow Follow’ if you will.

Hail Hail.

Chairbhoy

My feelings on the JK success leading to a permanent position is, it will depend on various scenarios.

Obviously the first, him and his staff do very well and there is a marked improvement in results, performance and player motivation.

The next is this…

Dermot Desmond made it clear in his interview in the Athletic, that out with business norms in a crisis, he pushed the boat out and unshackled the CEO and supported the manager at the beginning of the season.

He’d done his bit.

When things went wrong he’s rode the storm, giving us nothing but platitudes initially, the the head of our CEO, the promise of change with a new CEO. Then ultimately the head of our manager.

He’s played a blinder, despite the most woeful season any can remember we have got to the stage where the season is so meaningless that sacking Lenny and replacing him with John Kennedy is the only change he’s needed to make.

Despite all the noises, bluff and bluster, we get Lenny gone and JK in place – Big Pedro still calling the shots.

A situation that the support would never have tolerated in November. But majestically they bolded it out.

Now, the support are banking on leveraging change on the season ticket renewal. Seemingly unaware of the elephant in the room.

What if strict Covid restrictions apply to football stadiums next season. What if capacities are halved or even more.

The supporters haven’t factored in this scenario but DD most certainly has.

30,000 season books max… the clamour for SBs may never be greater.

With reduced revenues and huge demand for tickets, if JK does well, we may see very little change and the new CEO given a season to bed in and plan for Celtic in the new normal.

Hail Hail

Garry

Bada
Thanks for that heads up pal 👍

big packy

GARRY dont worry ill have jim in front of me, any trouble and ill be over hadrians wall quicker than snow aff a dyke, another true story😎

big packy

MIKE, how is seamus, you keep missing my posts to you, our pack is ok fingers crossed at the moment, isnt it nice we can talk about dogs and everything else in between on this site, without posters moaning,😎😎 another true story.

Packy, Mike said at 6.38 that he was going off to try & get a haircut and won’t be on till later. Maybe that’s why he keeps missing your posts! LOL 🙂

Chairbhoy

Interestingly after I posted my last comment I read this.

It’s an update for Wycombe Wanderers season ticket supporters.

I post it here to show the Celtic season ticket holders what not to expect from their Chairman or main shareholder…

Key information for season ticket holders
Chairman Rob Couhig provides an update.

Earlier this week, we all received the news from the government that we had come to expect, but hoped wouldn’t be the case: we will not be able to welcome fans back to Adams Park this season. It is a great shame – on many levels – that this season has been played almost entirely behind closed doors.

On a more positive note, there is no reason not to believe that next season will start with Wycombe playing in front of crowds. That is what we are planning for, and as part of those preparations, we want to make sure we are ready to begin selling season tickets in the near future.

Season tickets will be the same price next year. Last June, we established our prices based on the premise that we would charge an amount that was fair and reasonable regardless of which division in which we might be playing. In maintaining the prices, we believe we can deliver real value by enhancing the team on the pitch and your experience off of it.

Before launching the new season ticket package, however, we must address the issue of season tickets from the current 2020/21 season. As you will remember, we sold 2,448 season tickets last summer. The vast majority of those tickets were sold before we won promotion. While we could have sold many more tickets, we set that figure based on our predictions of what our stadium capacity might be under social distancing restrictions, and as it happened, we weren’t far off. Sadly, we never got the chance to put that theory into practice, aside from those two games in December played in front of 1,000 and 2,000 supporters.

I want to thank each and every one of our 2,448 supporters who parted with their money in a time of uncertainty. Your unwavering commitment to the club has underpinned everything we are trying to achieve. Your patience and understanding during your long absence from Adams Park has been a great help.

Last year, I made a pledge and I stand by that pledge. Because we were not able to fulfill our commitment to have you attend matches as we had planned, if you would like a full refund, you can have it, no questions asked. We recognize that this has been a difficult year and many have had unexpected financial pressures.

However, if you are in a position to waive your refund, it would certainly be appreciated. We will make sure you know how much you are appreciated. You will be guaranteed the absolute highest priority status that probably any season ticket holder has benefitted from in the history of this club. Trust me, you will be front of the queue at every opportunity, and receive invitations to join Missy, Pete, and me at an exclusive party and pre-season activities at Adams Park.

Just as important, keeping your money in the club will go a long way to helping us keep the squad as strong as it possibly can be including enhancing our reserve squad. We continue to enhance the experience for fans at Adams Park and will be excited to have you back to see it for yourself.

There is a third option for season ticket holders who recognize that they received some value for their season ticket purchase but nonetheless would like some amount of refund but do not want to withdraw their money altogether. We are inviting you to claim your refund less £230 – the equivalent of the 23 iFollow match passes that you have had access to for home matches played behind closed doors. Supporters who choose this option – and buy a season ticket for 2021/22 – will receive second priority status on booking tickets.

We are asking you now to please choose which option you’d like to take, and hope to complete this process by March 21st. Details on how to do this are outlined below.

We expect to make 2021/22 season tickets available to the general public after April 1. Based on the requests we were not able to fulfil and the growing excitement over the Club, we expect there to be a strong demand for those tickets. Please let us know which of the three options you choose.

I look forward to seeing you at Adams Park soon.

Rob Couhig
Chairman.

Hail Hail

big packy

JIM, wee joan would have given him a haircut for free, FFS she cuts my hair and i mean my hair only I ok my uncle packy took me to this game i was only 11 years old, https://youtu.be/FbK883HSNz4

Garry

BP
There can’t be many on here that saw Third Lanark live. They died when I was 2.
My dad had a soft spot for them as a club.👍

Packy, I was surprised to see Jimmy Johnstone playing, I forget he was playing for us as early as 1964. I’ve got a memory like a hen.

big packy

JIM /GARRY, you make me feel so old 😎😎johnny divers played in that game, john the original yogi hughes, jim kennedy and the immortal charlie gallagher ,what would have happened had charlie not put that cross in against vojvodina.,god bless charlie gallagher,👍

Garry

BP
My dad was friendly with Clydebank bhoy John Divers. He was a teacher in Saint Patrick’s Dumbarton, and had a Newsagents in the town after retiring from football. 👍🍀💚

I wasn’t a Celtic fanatic at that time, went to the occasional games and supported them outwardly, but I was learning to play music. that took up a lot of my spare time.