The Terrible Twins
On the way into town the other day,the bus was festooned with information about Swindon. Presumably an advertising initiative-and having lived here for twenty years,I do know a fair bit about the town. Yes,it has been the subject of many a joke over the year-particularly from certain supercilious types from nearby Cirencester,a place I wouldn’t go unless you paid me.
Although I have been paid to go there often in my last job,which is why when I was on the bus back from Birmingham one night and the driver took a wrong turn,I told him it wasn’t just a wrong turn,it was a bloody huge error-he had just turned into an old housing estate,and I would struggle to get a van through it!
Anyway,seems that Swindon has been twinned with Disneyworld in Florida since 2009! Well,bugger me backwards over the hostess trolley,I sure never knew that!!! I contend that Swindon is a great place to live,but whenever visitors arrive I jump on the train to Bath,Bristol,Cardiff,Cheltenham.
Anywhere but Cirencester,really…
Swindon and Disneyworld,if ever there were unlikely twins,there you are. I have some limited experience of twins,having been engaged to one in the mid-80s and also going out with a girl from The Twin Cities in Minnesota. But the unlikely twins under discussion are the two cheeks of the same arse argument aimed at both halves of The Old Firm.
And let’s be honest here,The Old Firm is a business arrangement over which the fans have no control-so you can get off my case for using the term. The business controls the club,and the fans have little or no say about it. If we did,that horrible term would have been buried along with the other half of it!
The two cheeks argument is an easy one to make for the media when we behave that way,yet Celtic supporters hate it. We are not them,we are not defined by them. We are “More than just a club!”
But are we?
Sure,our founding ethos set us up that way,with all the plans being for charitable use. That didn’t last very long. And Fergus started The Celtic Foundation in 1996,but I can assure you that there are problems there too since around 2013,with an article on the matter still very much a work in progress. But the big part of the twinning process is the co-dependency exhibited by our board since at least 2012. And I have my doubts about just how hard we really tried to win the leagues of 2008-11 too.
Lumped in with The Forces Of Darkness by a board which has done their damnedest to keep our worst foes alive,foes who themselves tried to kill us off. If ever there were unlikely twins,there they are-but you and I know that our other half is still planning fratricide. And that board of ours invites them on,while their few remaining supporters wonder why we are giving them a hard time?
Celtic Plc needs a return to first principles,a reboot in modern terms. Only then will the fans who support Celtic FC feel that we have a club worth supporting,that we can believe in. Until then we will be defined as one half of The Old Firm,and I’m f….d if I want to be defined by them.
Above article by BMCUWP
Cheltenham napsters, one horse per race, follow the link
I’m at the stage where I just don’t even bother myself with what the board thinks ‘we are.’ What ‘we are’ is found at Celtic Park every home game, away game and in our travels around Europe. It’s found in every charitable initiative launched what ‘we are’ every blog, every CSC regardless of where in the world they’re located. What’ we are’ is not the abomination that the ‘custodians’ have fettered themselves too, but every single Celtic supporter who loves the club, no matter where they are. We’re the lifeblood of the club, something that they will never be and ‘we always are’. We are, Celtic supporters through and through and that mob will never be what ‘we are.’
Great words Noel. Exactly how I feel but try explaining it to other supporters and the general population of Scotland. We are just the same as them, it was ever thus. As Bmcuwp writes in his article, our board perpetuates it.
thanks for the kind compliment. If they would come out publicly and nail this nonsense to the floor, to an extent they would really get the fans on their side, but only money matters with these impostors. Footballing myopia doesn’t even cover it.
Noel…the money is there, the collusion to safeguard the ‘Old Firm’ secured the big money. The issue is how it was achieved – the 5 Way Agreement and Res12.
Resolution 12 has been parked and in its place we have Resolution 11 which asks that the PLC scrutinises the governance of the game in Scotland. The PLC have agreed to Res11 and will require to be watched very closely to ensure they do question the SFA/SPFL about how the Huns apparently get things their own way too often. So, for me the issue is not about money now, the issue is how the game in Scotland is run to one team’s benefit. This season has highlighted the blatant bias and cheating that has gone on for years.
Further to all that I think the issues surrounding Celtic at the moment are all about how we’ve managed ourselves. How in God’s name did we fail so dramatically this season! This season should have been our most memorable since Seville but we’ve become nothing more than a laughing stock. We need a guid rid oot from top to bottom and start again! It’s no joke how far we’ve fallen and it’s going to take some proper hard decision making to put processes and systems in place that ensure the likes of this season can’t happen again.
So for me if Celtic and Dominic McKay show ambition and bravery in the appointment of a Head of Football and an ambitious, attack-minded, tactically astute Head Coach, and restructure the Youth Dept to properly develop our own young players to facilitate progress to the First Team then I’ll see that as a positive and I’ll have no hesitation in putting my money back in. Anything other and I’ll need to have a long hard look at what they’re telling us!
The money’s there, they know it’s there, they’ve just managed to take it from us too, too easily in the past. This should be a watershed moment for the support to press home our advantage.
Question prior to me getting to my main point?
What price do you think DD would want to sell his entire shareholding to the support?
I realise you cannot be expected to know exactly, but ball park?
This from The Irish Voice.
Tells you all, what a wee backwater Scotland is. Not one, political party. All scared to upset the Loyalists.
Such a shame that neither @NicolaSturgeon @AnasSarwar @Douglas4Moray @willie_rennie @patrickharvie nor @AlisonJohnstone could take the time to wish Scotland’s large, historic, diverse, and multi-generational Irish community a Happy St Patrick’s Day.
Morning Twists…maybe having the CFC shares gives him an ‘ear to the ground’ on what’s happening elsewhere in the world of the Wee Man. The betting and drinking cultures which serve parts of his empire are a huge part of fitba. I’m not so well versed in other aspects of his business but I’m sure The Gombeen Man(apologies if ti wasn’t) posted an extensive list of his other interests and how they potentially affect ordinary mortals. So perhaps keeping them is more beneficial than selling them. And when things are good for Celtic it’s a great conversation opener at the Horses or the Gouf!
DD will not sell to the Celtic support.
He is waiting for the coming changes in European football to maximize his investment.
He has a history of such in his other businesses.
500 million pounds would be a minimum he and LT would accept but the price could be far higher depending on the new circumstances we find ourselves in.
Fan ownership is highly unlikely.
We will be another rich mans toy.
Guy knows his horses….
The Celtic support could turn Desmond’s shares to confetti
With one concentrated and sustained effort!!
Get the money grabbing billionaire tae…
Bada, I’m not so sure. 9.04
I think he’s potentially cost himself 70,000.
If Envoy Allen wins it doesnt matter, but if it loses, he’s cost himself 70,000.
This has the same outcome, as what he has partially cashed out on.
Anyway, I don’t know him from Adam but I’m delighted for him.
Wouldn’t you lay the favourite @1.48 for £350,000 if it loses you win £350k and if it wins you win £343k 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ extra £70k??
McCaff / Fan
Forgive me but I cannot remember who posted it, but fairly recently, someone suggested on here that DD ( or perhaps even DD’s son) had indicated that he would be willing to sell his shares to the support.
Fan, cannot see £500m nor anywhere remotely close to that number.
I think the highest value the club has ever realised is £125m, and whilst I realise DD can value his shares for selling purposes at whatever value he chooses, he has a 50.2% share I believe, so even at its peak, £62.5m would’ve been the face value to DD.
If it’s true that he would be a willing seller to the support, there are means by which that could be achieved over a 5 year period, leaving the support as the major shareholders, which was why I was looking for opinion on the value.
At £500m it isn’t as achievable but I believe at £50m to £80m it most definitely is.
A two-week winter break will return to the Scottish Premiership in January next season after nine of the 12 clubs voted in favour.
Just a reminder.
Twists…I had just bought a business back in ’94 and couldn’t afford the £600 McCann was asking for a basic Share purchase but The Bunnet set up a deal with the Co-Op Bank to ensure an easy bank loan to prospective buyers. I bought mine, not as an investment as a keepsake or heirloom, with no intention of selling. When Fergus then offered more shares I sold mine for over £3k, a wee trip to USA paid for, and bought another £250 worth at the next issue. I’ve still got them and no intention of selling – they’re worth feck all at the moment anyway.
For what it’s worth I’m not convinced DD is a seller anyway!
Every year , bar none, the worst of the weather we encounter is in February. Any break should be set then. It’s likely it will be done in Dec /Jan which is pointless imo.
We will end up losing the 2 weeks plus some more games in February.
You’re probably right. There had been some talk on here that he was willing to sell but as I said, I truly cannot recall who posted it. It would be interesting if true.
You are correct.
As you know, changes in temperatures affect my health.
I always take a week off in Feb, because the temperature, normally drops very low ( for Scotland )
JNP- this is his bet…
Wow, good luck to this guy tomorrow.
A punter stands to collect more than £500,000 from a £5 bet if hot favourite Envoi Allen wins at the Cheltenham Festival on Thursday.
Paul Dean has seen four legs of his five-horse accumulator triumph.
Now he has been offered the chance to cash out for £275,000 regardless of the final result.
“He told me he won’t be able to sleep tonight. I’d say that’s a massive understatement,” said Betfair spokesman Barry Orr on Wednesday.
Dean’s winning run began with two winners at Royal Ascot nine months ago, and two more have followed at Cheltenham this week as he closes on a potential payday of £511,225.
”He could take the cash out offer and sit back safe in the knowledge that regardless of what happens in the race he is £275,000 better off,” said Orr.
“Alternatively, he can reject the offer and hope Envoi Allen beats his seven opponents and also safely negotiates the 16 fences to land his incredible bet.
”Envoi Allen is 4-9 favourite so he may well stick and let the bet run.”
The winners so far:
Golden Horde (12-1) – Won Commonwealth Cup, Ascot, 19 June 2020
Hello Youmzain (10-1) – Won Diamond Jubilee Stakes, Ascot, 20 June 2020
Shishkin (4-1) Won Arkle Chase, Cheltenham, 16 March 2021
Bob Olinger (25-1) Won Ballymore Novices’ Hurdle, Cheltenham, 17 March 2021
Envoi Allen 9/2 now 1/2 – ??? Marsh Novices’ Chase, Cheltenham, 18 March 2021
Dashel drasher is a non runner!!
Noel Skytrot @ 4.50
It still doesn’t explain why, if the support ‘are Celtic’, we don’t do anything to wrest control of the club back from those who continually tarnish the history and principles of Celtic FC. Fine words and rhetoric will do very little, just as complaining but handing your money over to the charlatans achieves nothing but ensure they remain in place.
A mass boycott of merchandise or ST will undoubtedly force them to focus on the wishes and desires of the support.
It’s a great bet and its sensible to partially cash out, what I’m saying is, he could have layed, Envoi Allen, instead, rather than partial cash out, to maximise return.
The way I showed it, would give him the same return if the horse wins, as his partial cash out, but 70,000 more if it loses.
The bookie would have needed to give him the funds for a big lay, but I don’t think that would have been an issue, as it would reduce their potential liability and there is plenty of liquidity in the exchange market, as it’s Cheltenham, so that wouldn’t have been an issue either.
Guy is in a position of massive strength, because the horse is odds on, to win.
Well done him.
Beannachtaí na Féile Sheelah oraibh.
Good article BMCUWPS. Surely Swindon can’t be that bad?
Greetings from a the Feast of Sheila. The traditional Celtic Festival on the day after St Patrick’s Day.
A fantastic day yesterday, which was a bit of a surprise given that most pubs have been shut for a year. The weather played it’s part and there’s an enthusiasm in the air that worst of Covid might be coming to an end.
Progress with vaccinations is slow but patience is the key.
There’s an underlying confidence here, in the possibility of a Border Poll. There’s a lot of work being very quietly in the background. There’s a growing belief in the possibility that there will be further moves towards re-unification of the island down the tracks.
When Dermot was much younger he worked for a period in Afghanistan. He saw what he called the effects of tribalism there. At one stage, I understand he saw some schoolgirls shot in a market.
He never believed that Afghanistan was ready for democracy and believes the majority in any population are always wrong.
The majority are conditioned by education, culture, religion and fear so don’t make logical decisions etc, etc, etc.
He knows that we don’t think logically when it comes to Celtic and in many ways are subject to a form of tribalism.
The reality is that Scotland is in the very early stages of recovery from generations of colonialism (hopefully it won’t take decades).
We tend to think that an institution like a political party, religion or even a football club can deliver what we are after. The reality is they can’t. I’m struggling to think of one institution that man has created that didnt succumb to one form of corruption or other ( apart from SC).
The bottomless pit of the ego always kicks in. Mistakes are covered up. Greed kicks in but because we’re attached to beliefs we don’t walk away and continue to support what we’ve been taught to believe.
I don’t ask questions like, ” Why are so many folk in Scotland anti the Catholic Church?” ” What are Scottish folk taught about Ireland?”
“Where might they have a point?”
Never getting past debate and discussion ( discussion has the same root as percussion). Rarely listening, always on broadcast only.
So many of us are stuck in a preconitioned loop, which is a painful place to be. The pursuit of pleasure always leads to pain. Talk of domination is arrogance born of fear…Tribalism.
Dermot knows all this and knows all of this and until we hit the wall a few more times we’ll continue to getting in line and be served what the OF has on offer and what it can’t deliver.
The Gombeen man
Very good read.
The Gombeen Mhan 10.02
A thoughtful and yet disturbing piece. Your posts, though, are always instructive.
The Gombeen man @ 10.02
The reality is that Scotland is in the very early stages of recovery from generations of colonialism
Do you mean Scotland recovering from being colonised or Scotland weaning itself off its reliance on being an active and willing participant in the subjugation of tens of millions while empire-building with its senior partner?
England & Scotland 2 cheeks of the same imperial arse CSC
In the present climate 500 million is unrealistic.
But change is coming and if we are lucky enough despite Lawwell’s best efforts to reduce as to European cannon fodder to get an invite to take us outwith the best wee country it is feasible and may go higher.
Look at the value of many of the big league clubs due mostly to tv and advertising revenue?
A new European set up will see the top clubs income soar along with valuations.
So if we are given a place in the pyramid then 500m is not beyond possibility as most of these clubs revenue is through tv advertising and sponsorship
Like his City airport sale i expect DD is willing to play the long game for maximum return putting the price beyond most fans reach.
“We are just the same as them ”
I’ve always been suspicious of that explanation of ” dislike ” .
Yes , they dislike the Ibrox mob for the obvious reasons but I’ve long suspected they know better re – us ; and that their genuine ” dislike ” for us is coming from a darker , dare I say more racist/sectarian viewpoint . Maybe not all of them though I’d posit a fair percentage .
Of course to admit this would put them in the same boat as one half of what they claim to hate ; so easier , safer (sneakier ) to deliberately tar us with the same brush as Ibrox , allowing them to hate us openly ( legitimately ).
Very good article.
It is not only a new manager needed. A complete restructure of the club from top to bottom is what is needed.
Óglach at 9.58 is of course correct.
The fans have the ultimate power. If we take restrictive action, then the PLC would need to take action to counter that.
Withholding ST renewals gives us massive power. Boycotting merchandise is another weapon in our arsenal.
Make no mistake, anyone who complains about referees, SFA, Old Firm and suspects our complicity in such and buys a ST is endorsing the other cheek of an old firm arse.
To pretend otherwise is futile. The “I only want to support the team” argument for purchasing is akin to crossing a picket line because you promised to take the kids to Disneyland or you’re buying a new kitchen. There are thousands of us who would buy ST’s if the game wasn’t rigged and our rivals were acknowledged to have won their first title.
We are at a crossroads in our history. Brendan was brought in before to appease and seduce the support into bankrolling the PLC. Once on board and the model established, there was no need for him. This may be our last chance to make a stance. Give us back our club!
Well, hello pop pickers. It’s another day at number 1 for Chris Wilder, surprisingly, for me, his price has shortened and he is now odds on, for the post.
The board seem hellbent on selling our club as one half of The Old Firm,despite clear objections to that from the fans. The tweet about not being half of anything is meaningless without actions which reinforce that. All of their actions till now have come up woefully short.
The board need to understand that a disaffected support adds nothing to the club as a whole,while the reasons for that disaffection subtract from it. Let the rest of Scotland try to drive a wedge into us,we can cope with that. We can’t cope when the wedge is being driven from within.
What EMUSANORPHAN said!
Totally agree with you.
One sentence from our club before Sunday’s game, would satisfy many in our support.
“We congratulate the new Rangers on winning their first ever Scottish top flight title.”
Won’t happen, sadly.
On the point about the punter with a huge amount going on Envoi Allen today,I sympathise with his plight. I had a £2k acca return from Christmas go down on Tuesday when Concertista got nailed on the line. I could see Black Tears chasing from the last but couldn’t see the finishing post,and I knew I was screwed.
F…..g well named,that horse!!!
I think he has made the correct decision,even though I think Envoi Allen is a cert. He has won an amount of money which he can do some good with. Winning an extra £100k or so can’t be worth the stress,and I certainly wouldn’t want to be him if it lost under those circumstances.
A few weeks ago,I did a £1 L/15 with a £5 acca. 7s,9s,9s and 8s. The first three won,which meant I effectively had £5k on the 8/1 shot in the last. Backed into 4s,blocked in the run-in and beaten by two lengths.
£1088 returned and happy enough-but I’ll NEVER have so much going onto a horse again! When I told ATHINGOFBEAUTY about it,she nearly had a heartie-so think how his family and friends would feel if he had a chance to get the majority of his winnings,knocked it back,saw it lose?
Most I got offered that night to cash out was £1500-which meant that effectively my last runner was priced at over 100/1,so sod that…
Turned out to be a good choice as Envoi Allen fell!
Luca Connell on loan to Queens Park
As much as i’d love Celtic plc to admit that this is Sevco (Aka The Rangers 2012) 1st league title before the game I don’t think this is at all possible given the current climate. To make such a statement on the eve of the Celtic v Sevco game would be viewed by the SMSM, Scots Gov, and Police Scotland as being nothing more than deliberately confrontational and inflammatory. Not that our PLC would have ever considered making such a statement. Their time for ending all this pretence was 2012, not 2021.
Telling the truth is inflammatory? Denying a lie is confrontational?
I agree with you that Celtic will say and do nothing. I know I’ve always told my Rangers pals back home the truth,and they just tell me the reality. I’ve no problem with them existing,I have a real problem with them trying to pretend an unbroken history since 1873.
Or 1872,depending on what you believe. Fuxake,canny even trust them to tell the truth about that!
Telling the truth is inflammatory? Denying a lie is confrontational?
Bobby, you know as well as do I that in Scotland the answer to that question is ‘Yes’.
(Sorry,forgot to defend my wee toon)
Swindon is a terrific place to live. It’s just not a place to take weekend visitors for a dayoooooot-not when there is Bath,Cheltenham,Bristol and even Cardiff a short train ride away.
I remember taking AYRSHIRETIM on a trip to Bath,and he insisted on doing touristy things before we went to a pub! So,art gallery and Caravaggio exhibition,wee visit to a bridge that doesn’t look like one-!-followed by Bath Abbey,he was in there for about three hours btw,scoot about the town and then we hit the pubs.
Great day in some really historic and ancient places-and that included the pubs. Came back to Swindon to get served Guinness in carbonate glasses.
Really mindblowing things,them. They look like a glass,but they are so light that when you pick them up you damn near throw them over your shoulder!
Having said that,I took him on a wee sightseeing tour once. Lacock,Avebury and Silbury Hill,Marlborough and the Roman Road north from it,and finally my favourite.
Hodson,a wee chocolate box village which is actually in Swindon. Even though not that widely known.
BMCUWP / Oglach
As Elie Wiesel said, “the opposite of love is not hate. It is indifference.”
I tend to agree with Oglach… context is everything.
Our Board wants fans to feel aggrieved, and they want fans to complain about being cheated… because that feeling of being cheated is what connects the fans to the club, and is what drives ticket sales … so Celtic want you to feel slighted, and to feel aggrieved…. so long as you express that grievance by supporting your club … by buying tickets …..
If we are going to tell the truth, we have to tell the whole truth…. telling a portion of the truth can be, if not a lie, certainly misleading…
Say two people get into an argument… A pulls out. gun and starts shooting at B, but misses…. B grabs a knife , runs at and stabs A …. A, in turn, shoots and kills B. … when questioned by the police, A says ‘B stabbed me… so I Shot B to protect myself’…. what A says may be technically true (so, in the sense, not a lie)… but it ignores the fact that A started the problem by shooting at the neighbour in the first place…
so, we have to ask ourselves… why did we not insist on the club speaking out for the last decade, but kept paying to support the Old Firm.. but now we have to insist that the club speak up….
Celtic gave its fans what it thought they wanted…. and the dirty family secret that we dont want to talk about is that they were probably right ….
Complaining about what Rangers did without acknowledging the role that Celtic played it … and the role that Celtic fans played in it … is, if not a lie, disingenuous….
At this point, unless connected to an action to remedy the situation, complaining about new club seems more like playing the Old Firm tit for tat game, rather than an effort to get to the truth.
On a related note, do Celtic blogs do more harm than good?
Some clearly are clearly connected to the Club, and act as PR departments for the club. The harm they do is obvious, so that is not the issue here.
What I am talking about are blogs which are not in the employ of the Club.
As Noam once said, ““The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum….”
Bogs have, in many ways, democratized the debate… information that, in the past, would have been known to only a few, is now known by many.
However, my sense is that, for many, complaining on blogs has become a substitute for actual engagement.
If that is the case, has blogging become inherently anti-democratic?
I think you reinforce what I and others have already said! How many people on here do you reckon are supporters of the board,and their actions,since at least 2012 and probably before it?
Damn few-though I agree that people like MAGS and AWENAW and even PF AYR,who withdrew their financial support and told us why,were right in what they said. But there is always the argument about being in the tent and pissing out-though few were ever invited into the tent!-or that I don’t support the board,I support Celtic.
And there we go on the roundabout of ever decreasing circles again…
You know that my Dad was the biggest happyclapper ever,first saw Celtic during WWII,and there’s no way anyone will stop him buying a season ticket-even if he is far from a happyclapper now. And yes,we can post on a blog and change the mindset of people like my Dad,or others over the years on the likes of CQN. But we didn’t,not really. Facts changed their mindset,nothing to do with what you,me,anyone else said. Most people are smart enough to notice things all by themselves,and make their own minds up accordingly.
Events,dear boy. Or,when the facts change,so do my opinions.
But I think we played a small part nonetheless in persuading people to do thir own investigation into the facts. And that ALL blogs do their own work. I think the negativity on here might,in actual fact,persuade some to buy a ticket just for the hell of it-but that’s a chance we take!
I also think that a slavishly pro-board slant is equally self-defeating. Which seems to being borne out. Our site is dependent on the members,they drive the direction. MAHE and I are fortunate enough to post our thoughts in the articles. When people disagree,their views are respectfully read and discussed,same as all the others.
I reckon that’s fairly democratic,to be honest. Much more than we get under a BJ government here anyway.
Fuxake,I killed the blog!
Takes me back to babysitting my nephew in the late 90s and letting him watch South Park when Kyle And Cartman killed Kenny
Oh no,WE’RE bastards!
Which was very funny until my 5yo nephew told his Mum and his gran how funny it was! Persona non grata…
MIT- agree, blogs are a convenient shield for the Board, a wailing wall ,and Lawwell hides under his desk saying nothing.
I am not really a tech guy (my brother would, not unfairly, describe me a a bit of a luddite), so CQN was my first experience where I thought something really good/really important could be achieved via a website. It was very interesting to see how quickly it could turn into the opposite.
It has also been interesting to see people’s relationship with the technology, and how that can impact on the decision making process.
Might be a Canadian thing… we all learn about McLuhan at an early age here.
Twisty, as per your previous posts, this is from David Low, today.
IPO to value Club Brugge at €229 million.
Celtic’s market cap is around 160m GBP when you account for the preference and Preferred ordinary shares. That’s circa €187m.
Hmmm. Even that’s more than I was considering. However, DD owns 50% more or less. I was thinking , if DD was willing to sell his share to the support, he could initiate a share offer to season book holders over a 5 year period.
They would set the share price at £x per share
If I wanted to plough in £500 ( example) per annum on top of my season ticket for 5 years, that’s £2.5k. If 50,000 season ticket holders did likewise , that’s £125m over 5 years.
At that point , two options.
Convert to shares.
if unhappy with the share price take a refund.
Some wouldn’t be able to afford the £500, some would manage more.
Most would convert since their reason for investing would be to see ownership fall into the supporters hands as opposed to another venture capitalist.