Down the Livvy

The news LivingstonFC don’t qualify for a Euro licence is another ‘you’ve gotta be kidding moment’ of the type the Scottish game seems to specialize in.
Not that I’ve any particular love for the club, but finishing top six while taking some bigger scalps during the journey, should rightly be considered a huge success for that club.
Given his background, it would also be a huge achievement for their manager, propelling him onto the manager of the year podium, I think we all know who will get that particular gong so a podium position is the best available, but yet a great feat in its own right.
Yet all that good work may not reap the rewards due, surely much to the heartbreak of Livvy fans who must be ecstatic at their fantastic season. And this during special circumstances where a certain amount of laxity is granted due to Covid meaning it must be really bad to get publically flagged.
This raises huge questions.
Would their overachieving manager have possibly known he may not enjoy Europe should he reach those positions? If not, his position is untenable.
When was Livingston’s board aware of the fact a Euro licence may be refused and were they thus duty bound to inform employees?
We know another club essentially survived the season on directors loans, is Livingston that much worse, and do all clubs receive equal, non biased scrutiny?
What does the SFA do during the season in order to ensure clubs can comply with licensing criteria?
What is the point of the TWO governing bodies who have failed the ordinary supporter of Livingston FC at this time?

It’s worth noting those honest chaps at Hampden didn’t just feel confident enough to simply slide the licence application over no matter what state the accounts were in.
Could this be a sign of improved scrutiny on our national association? Maybe, but forgive for being skeptical.
More likely two bent applications would be one too many, the privileged blind eye is reserved for their precious team in light blue.
Is it another example of one rule for whichever club is playing out of Ibrox and one rule for the rest?
Certainly looks that way.
I’m curious what the Livingston support come up with now, being the primary victims. A sack the board campaign looks obvious, but their chairman was prepared to give a half million interest free loan to get the club through the season, showing some type of connection with the club.
Given their debt is historical, it might not be at all fair to punish those who aren’t responsible for the mess but are genuinely trying to fix it.
It’s a dilemma.
But the fact remains an overachieving manager breaking into the top six may be denied Euro entry, so it’s now incumbent upon every SPFL team to not find itself in that position as top 6 could be one good appointment away, couple good signings away, around the corner at any given stage. Managers must do their due diligence in order to avoid this scenario as much as possible. The negativity that comes with a squad and fanbase denied their just desserts will be very hard to shift, and should the squad head into next season in the same financial boat I posit they won’t bust a gut to reach the same if not better final position, the motivation will be gone.

Not long ago there was a rumour of some well heeled fans buying a lowly lying professional club solely for the purpose of getting access to UEFA and the inner machinations of both domestic bodies.
As fascinating as that venture sounds, what does it say that the ordinary fan may actually have to cough up and organize some type of justice themselves through a meandering route?
Imagine Annan Athletic for instance presenting Uefa with Res12 and the 5WA and asking for their official opinion?
Imagine the popularity of said club within the game and the wider community,,it’s true fans would probably be mortified yet this is what it’s came to for those seeking a way to force the game to tread a better path. Circumventing the traditional routes in order to get in the building, then knocking the big bosses door to ask long awaited questions.

Just how many different fan bases will those who are paid to police the entire game utterly fail before the clubs themselves say enough?
Or are these tax funded crooks with job titles just something everyone has tacitly accepted as part of the game?
The game has gone down the lavvy under Hampdens watch, Livingstone just the latest in a long list of failures.
We’re all aware of some Celtic fans saying that’s enough, I wouldn’t be surprised if most top flight clubs had a large number of discontents contemplating the exact same thing.
Empty Hampden and fix football has never sounded so good.
By Mahe for any guest articles please

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Morning all.

Mahe. It’s utterly astonishing.

Just for anyone not fully au fait with the story, the reason for potential exclusion is this:

“ Livingston’s hopes of a return to European football for the first time in 18 years could be thwarted by a failure to comply with regulations.
David Martindale’s side sit fifth in the Scottish Premiership and are into the last 16 of the Scottish Cup.
But an insufficient youth system and lack of published accounts could bar the club from Uefa competition.
“Livingston FC are working round the clock to satisfy the criteria,” the West Lothian club said in a statement.
“We have lost over £2m in the past 15 months and this has affected our plans to re-establish our youth academy, which is a major part of the Uefa criteria.”

The ‘ insufficient youth system’, I’d be reluctant to comment upon since I know little to nothing about it. Perhaps one or more Sentinel Celts can enlighten us as to what that means exactly?

The other point:

“ a lack of published accounts”

Well I think I can safely assume every Sentinel Celt will be fully conversant with the irony in that element of the charge.

What’s even more astonishing is the fact that the press carry these stories, yet not one of them, has highlighted the hypocrisy of the authorities . Actually it’s not really astonishing at all. It’s expected.

You ask Mahe how long other fan bases will accept this. The double standard if you wish. History tells us they’ll accept it forever more. You gotta ask yourself why the manager of Livingston hasn’t spoken out on this? Then ask yourself if it had been Celtic who’d been the recipient of the favouritism that was afforded to Rangers, whether he’d have been more vociferous on this?

That probably tells you all you need to know.
I was director of a Livingston based company which employed over 1000 people. I cannot recall more than a handful who would consider Celtic as their ‘second team’.
There were probably hundreds who would consider Sevco as their second team. Even when they didn’t admit it outright, on us v Sevco match days, it was pretty obvious where their allegiance lay.

That also applied to the handful who said they were Airdrie or Hearts supporters.

Outside Aberdeen I think you’ll struggle to find any other clubs or their supporters interested in seeing consistency, unless it’s consistently knocking Celtic.

The media? Same thing applies.


The “break even” result

“Calculating the break-even result
A club’s break-even result for a reporting period is calculated as the difference between relevant income and relevant expenses, as defined in the UEFA Club Licensing and financial fair play Regulations. A club’s management must prepare the calculation based on, and reconciled to, their annual financial statements and underlying accounting records. For the vast majority of clubs, this should be a relatively straightforward exercise”

A relatively straightforward exercise 🤔


I hope MIT doesn’t mind my cut and paste here

“Honestly, I think that by getting into -bed- with Rangers, Celtic shame the memory of our parents, and grandparents who were treated as second class citizens.”

Thats why not one other team will complain about anything they do or have done across the river, the big two are in- bed- together. One of them thinks they are an equal partner, but they are shit on and constantly cheated by the other teams Refs, and pals at Hampden. They are being treated like second class citizens and don’t do anything about it.
Reading all the posts in the last leader was great, the nostalgia was as if I had written most of the posts about myself.

If you had a partner how many times would you let them cheat on you before you chucked it . That’s where a lot of us are at right now, we know we are being cheated and because nothing is changeing we are leaving.

Andy Pandy 2

Late reply to BMCUWP and Magua from last night thanks for your replies and advice. As per usual, my cac-handed way of putting things may have come across wrong. Had just got in from work, posted and went to bed, so probably wasn’t thinking straight. Hard day at work, not conducive to clear thinking….just as well I hadn’t been drinking!!! Fear ye not, I am learning, and rest assured I am not as miserable as may I come across…. unless of course we lose on Sunday and I won’t be talking to anyone!!


On this day.With thanks to Li’l Ze
13th April 2002, Celtic 5:0 Dunfermline.

Hartson(2), Lambert, Smith and Sylla. @JohnHartson10


Morning all and Twisty….I’ve spoken often about the structure, or rather lack of structure with Youth Football in Scotland. Clubs invest a lot of time and money developing Youth players from Academy to First Team but don’t necessarily reap the benefits either in terms of the number of successful transitions to the First Team or in terms of selling on for decent enough sums that is re-invested in the Academy. In 2018 Livi, and Falkirk, decided to discontinue their Youth Academies. This in turn allowed them to concentrate their finances in the First Team.
UEFA Licence criteria seems to demand a proper route at a Club for Youth to succeed. As Livingston have appeared to have removed this opportunity for any Youth players then it would seem logical that they automatically exclude themselves form the Application process. Although it is tempting to equate their situation to that of the Huns I’m not sure Livingston’s decisions were as cynical. Neither would I have expected that Livi thought a Euro place would realistically be open to them.
Further to their decision in 2018 Livingston reintroduced their Youth system in November’19 with the intent of restarting it in February’20. I’m not sure how affected these plans were by the pandemic but it’s probably fair to say, given the state of the whole of Fitba since March ’20, that their plans were put on the back burner.
There are surprisingly few ‘Elite’ teams in Youth fitba in Scotland! The SFA’s structure for Youth fitba is very poor from age 15/16 to 20 years. The amount of truly competitive games available to boys in these age groups would astonish you particularly when you consider that they are competing in our supposed National Sport!
I’ve got no idea about the finances available to develop Youth fitba in Scotland but I do think the SFA is on its knees financially and for many, many years now the Development of our Youth players, despite the appointments of Brian McClair, Malky Mackay and Mark Wotte, has taken second place to the self-preservation of the governing body and it’s Executive.
Of course, the SPFL – which is a Members’ body – has done little to help the structure of the game to promote Youth Development. The biggest loss to Scottish fitba and it’s young players was the decision a few years ago to scrap the Reserve League. This had a massive effect on Clubs’ ability to produce players as the old Reserve League was a proving ground for the up and coming players as well as the place the old pros used to regain form or fitness after injury. A balance of youth and experience where players and Clubs benefitted.
The Reserve League has been ressurected in a slightly different format with fewer teams and doesn’t offer the same opportunities for boys to prove themselves.
Calls for Youth players to be tried ahead of under-performing Senior players in the failure of our current season just don’t recognise the lack of playing time and experience the young guys have had.
The current Senior teams who are part of the SFA’s ‘Academy’ structure can be found here…
*Most of this is my opinion from years of frustration at the lack of development of young players in Scotland, if anyone disagrees with my description of any part of the opportunities available I’d be more than happy to be corrected.


No point in discussing the hypocrisy if Livingston don’t fit the European licensing criteria.
Our club have endorsed an organization that will do such.
Myopic vision is what powers Scottish football and makes a mockery of it being a sport.
Its rapid decline is no surprise.
As a nation we would be better off if the whole charade was shut down.


Funny you should post that. I was only just talking about people’s ‘ second’ teams in my earlier post this morning.

I guess for most of us, our second team is an English based one. Not one we support financially of course ( though a few undoubtedly will) but a team we like to see doing well either because of a geographical connection, bloodline, or perhaps just because of their style of play.

My favourite teams when I was a kid were Leeds and Manchester City. So many talented players in those teams. Lorimer Giles Gray Marsh, Bell. Ach way too many to mention. So as I played ‘ cuppy’ in the back garden with my pal, whereby you commentated as you played, all of those names just tripped off the tongue in the same way as Johnstone, Lennox Auld etc.

I did however have a favourite second team in Scotland.

Dunfermline. Reason was quite simple. My uncle Jack was a Fifer. Born and raised in Dunfermline. He’d married my dads sister and I used to go over to Fife and stay with them for a week or two during school holidays.
Was quite an adventure. Crossing the rail bridge in the train, as a kid , was a big adventure. Bearing in mind it’s probably only 20 miles from where I lived, to Dunfermline, it still seemed like I was off to a different country.

Jack was a big Dunfermline supporter. I think their only success was a couple of Scottish cups in the 60’s, but his enthusiasm for his team was unparalleled. When I got married, I’d no house, so my wife and I moved in with Jack for 6 months. He’s a proper gentleman. No choice language. Very gentle nature . On the odd occasion we would have a few drinks together, inevitably he’d relate tales of Dunfermline matches.
So I’ve always had a wee soft spot for them. If they got a win, Jack was happy. If he was happy, that made me happy.
Jack is still with us at the grand age of 94. Sadly his age has caught up with him and he doesn’t recognise me any more , but the care nurse said an interesting thing last week. She said “ you know Jack is such a gentleman. So happy to please, he just smiles all the while”
So even with advanced stages of dementia, his manner hasn’t changed much.

I still recall Jack telling me this story. This really sums up his nature.
He liked to place a wee bet on the horses. He worked in Rosyth docks. He left my aunt, his wife, a line to put on one day. It was 3 x doubles and a treble.
He told me he used to tune into the radio for the results.
This one day his first horse wins at a big price. He told me, at the next radio update, his second horse has won, and whatdoyaknow, yes, his third triumphs too. All vg prices

Now I can’t recall what the line was worth but it was quite a lot of money.

He told me he arrived home. He always referred to my aunt as ‘doll’

He said “ you’ll never guess doll, my three horses have won. We’ve won quite a bit of money”

My aunt tells him “ och you and yer horses. I didn’t have time to go to the bookies today”

She hadn’t put them on!!

I said to him, “ what did you say to her?”

Let’s just say his response wasn’t the same as mine would’ve been.

All he said to my aunt was

“ oh deary dear”

That was it!!

That’s Jack though. A proper gentleman. Such a mild mannered man.

Obviously with his nature, he was an outsider who married into my family side. As I say, our reaction would’ve been somewhat different 😁


Thanks very much. I didn’t realise that . So they effectively excluded themselves! . Mind you , as you correctly point out, they almost certainly didn’t expect to gain a place in Europe.

The pandemic putting paid to their plans to reinstate a youth programme is unfortunate for them.

Fanny- that’s a vg point!


Fanny…my point is that Livi made a conscious decision to dismantle their Youth system. Having then decided to resurrect it the pandemic had hit. Rather than the dodgy application of, or perhaps complete disregard for, FFP which has permitted the Ibrox club to ride roughshod over anything and everything calling them to account Livi’s misfortune appears to be of their own making and unfortunately they don’t have enough friends in high places to change their destiny for next season.


…or, what you just said Twisty!

Paddy’s Maw

Lovely story about your uncle Jack and Dunfermline.


Twisty. 9.34.
What a fabulous post, you have to include that in your top 20.
It’s too good a story to be missed and it shows who Jack is.
Can you imagine? What a response, oh deary dear, wouldn’t have been mines either, it shows the calibre of the man, also………… for puting up with you, in his house, for 6 months, too.
Jack deserves a medal.!!!😂


Paddy’s Maw

Thanks very much. He’s a lovely man. Really heartbreaking to see him in his current condition. 94 though. Only this last couple of years have been difficult for him.


Twisty, what a wonderful read about your Uncle Jack! I lost a treasured uncle a few months back and I miss my chats and time spent with him. I lost a younger cousin a couple of years back, too. I’m very fond of his dad, my uncle but since the death of his boy he’s become reclusive. He would call into my house once or twice a month with sweets for the kids, just about teatime when he knew he was guaranteed his tea and a good chinwag! It just doesn’t happen now! He’s got a good family around him but he has lost his spark for life that was always a feature of his personality! Sad times!


Jimmy NP

Ah ty amigo. Nice words.

Thanks for the top twenty recommendation but no, I’ll not be including any of my ramblings. I’ll have Nana trying to hunt me down. I’m still laughing at his comments after last week’s chart was announced. “ payola” “ clown” “can sing feck all” 😂😂


JNP…and apart from that he’ll no want to reduce his earning capacity by including his own comments!! 💸💸💸


Here’s one for Twisty, I think you like this too JNP…


Yes, Nana had me laughing out loud, with that post.
You are on the ball, today.


I mean the song not the moolah! 😉😁


That’s very sad bud. Losing a child though. Can you imagine the pain. I hope you find a way to get him back in your life . Really really sad.


I went to bed early last night!!


I need a dollar 😂😂😂


Righty ho lads and lassies. I’m going for a walk then dropping in to see my mum. She was under the weather Monday but a little brighter yesterday.

Laterz amigos


McCaff. 10.00
Yes, Aloe, has a great voice.
I’m not making this up, you know, I put up the Friday 5, songs, on a Friday afternoon, to kick start the weekend. I had that bookmarked to play soon.

The Gombeen Man

Thanks Mahe, The Livingston story had passed me by. Yet another twist in Scottish football’s never-ending soap opera.

Picture the scene,

The Invincibilly’s will have Saturday’s outpouring of national grief, to prepare themselves for the dawning of the overstretched crimplene on Sunday.

Even the dugs in the street know that Sunday evening is a time for lying low as the inevitable blitzkrieg of fireworks, confetti shares and popping of Buckfast corks, marks the return of the natural order.

Succulent spam is back as dish of the day.

The vanquished Fenians will timidly make their way across Glasgow in their half dozen Parks of Hamilton coaches to meet their fate at the hands of the heroic Covid-5 and a Vatican inspired UEFA conspiracy.

The honest endeavours of Steven Gerrard and Co have already secured the Magnificent 55 Titles in 9 years.They’ve dispatched the loathsome Celtic Manager, Captain and CEO and killed the dream of 10.

Bobby Madden will officiate, which is only fitting. He gave up his Ibrox Season Book years ago.

What a year it’s been.

Sevco flags proudly fly from lamposts across the Six Counties.

Catholic European snoopers might be disrupting Loyalist smuggling operations at the ports – but young teenagers from working class areas will defiantly answer the call buoyed by the sacrifices at Ibrox.

A Scottish establishment inspired malicious prosecution was also uncovered not only vindicating the proud Rangers men involved but also got them the few pounds in compensation, they so richly deserve.

What Stevie and the Board have done this Season puts them right up there with the brave Apprentices that saved Derry.

Fair play too to the SFA for ensuring fair play throughout the season. It’s a pity about Livingston but rules are rules.

Celtic might as well bring the Cup with them to Ibrox on Sunday in the fleet of Park’s of Hamilton buses.

The Invincibilly’s, led by honest Stevie with Boaby running the show against a rudderless shower of losers?

Just the kind of backdrop where Legends are made.

Only an Invincibilly could claim invincibility having lost to St Mitten.

Only an Invincibilly could forget about Liquidation and all claim all those Titles and forget about all those trivialities like Insolvency Law.

Only an Invincibilly would believe that Celtic didn’t capsize to keep the Old Firm going.


Thanks everyone for the great read yesterday. Thanks Magua for the compliment.
Great reading from so many. Nice to read Paddy’s Maw’s story about picking up Paddy.
Been there.



Aloe sings the lyrics on this, you probably know that, great voice.


McCaff. 9.55.
That’s so sad about your uncle.
I don’t think the pain will leave him.
As Twisty says, hopefully he will find his way back to you and your family.


JNP…I have no monopoly on it… feel free to give it a spin. Here’s another you should like…


JNP…it’s sad at this stage of his life, 83 I think! His family see him all the time and genuinely look after him but he’s lost his confidence, hasn’t driven for over a year. It’s hard to see how he can bounce back to be honest. Another thing is I wouldn’t embarrass him by visiting him, I think he would be humiliated by that! It’s definitely a shame. Another thing is he was a Season book holder for years and years, known to many at Parkheid but he hasn’t been up for a long long time!


Feeling my way through the darkness
Guided by a beating heart
I can’t tell where the journey will end
But I know where to start
They tell me I’m too young to understand
They say I’m caught up in a dream
Well life will pass me by if I don’t open up my eyes
Well that’s fine by me
So wake me up when it’s all over
When I’m wiser and I’m older
All this time I was finding myself
And I didn’t know I was lost
So wake me up when it’s all over
When I’m wiser and I’m older
All this time I was finding myself
And I didn’t know I was lost
I tried carrying the weight of the world
But I only have two hands
Hope I get the chance to travel the world
But I don’t have any plans
Wish that I could stay forever this young
Not afraid to close my eyes
Life’s a game made for everyone
And love is a prize
So wake me up when it’s all over
When I’m wiser and I’m older
All this time I was finding myself
And I didn’t know I was lost
So wake me up when it’s all over
When I’m wiser and I’m older
All this time I was finding myself
And I didn’t know I was lost
I didn’t know I was lost
I didn’t know I was lost
I didn’t know I was lost
I didn’t know, I didn’t know, I didn’t know


McCaff 10.12.
You have put the link to, I need a dollar, back up.
Just to show, I’m paying attention.


TGM 10.03.
Another tremendous post from you, as BMCUW alluded to, yesterday, a lot of these posts, could and should be leaders.


MY PC is down at the moment so I’m working off my phone!! Here ye go, JNP…


Morning bhoys and ghirls.
Second teams. I was spoiled growing up, watching the Lions hoover up trophies like sweeties, with a squad so strong that I fully expected Celtic to beat anybody even if two or three 1st team players were injured or suspended. The Original Holy Goalie stepped in for Faither several times on big occasions quite seamlessly. If Jim Craig or Big Tam were out, no problem. Willie O’Neil would slot in. Jim Brogan or George Connelly or John Cushley would cover in central defence. In midfield, Charlie Gallacher covered for Bertie. There was no ready made replacement for Bobby Murdoch. How could there be? We did miss him if he was unavailable. And up front we had plenty forwards to keep the regulars on their toes. We lost Joe McBride, with 39 goals to his credit, in the Lisbon season ar Christmas. Again no problem. We had Yogi, Stevie, Buzz Bomb and Wispy.
So my second team growing up was Celtic Reserves. I know it’s an old joke, but in my case, totally true.


McCaff. 10.29.
Superb, smooth as you like.
A wee while since I had heard that song.
Thanks, buddy.


I meant to include Jinky as irreplaceable along with Bobby Murdoch.


Then we had the Quality Street Gang. Imagine.


My second team was Liverpool due only to King Kenny going! In my mind’s eye I can still see me sitting in the front room reading the Daily Record…£440,000! As an 11 year old I was gutted at the thought of losing him. Many years later I recall the trepidation, in 2001, on holiday in the Algarve. I made a point of passing a certain shop on the Strip just outside Albufeira, every day to check if the Daily Record had any news of the King of Kings staying or going. It made my holiday when I read he’d signed a new deal. It’s funny how wee things stick in your mind!


The sun was shining on the night of our greatest triumph.
As our family gathered around our small black and white tv to watch our heroes.
As a young boy my stomach was in knots.
I was to nervous to speak and could barely breathe so when Clark gave away the penalty and Milan scored i remained motionless with only my tears belying my true feelings.
When Gemmell’s thunderbolt struck the net i stood up got my ball and went outside to distract myself by attempting to emulate the skills of great footballers of that era.
When the roar emanated from all the surrounding houses i kew we had scored but i just sat on the ground staring at the ball for what seemed an eternity.
Suddenly the street filled with people dancing, singing and hugging in a sea of Green,White and Gold and i started crying.
My older sister came running towards me screaming we’ve won and all i could say was i know.
My two Rangers supporting pals came over to me and said why are you greeting ya fuckin idiot youse won?
All the kids then proceeded to have a 25 a side football match and a few drunk adults joined in.
Every goal was scored by Chalmers or Gemmell.
We played long into the night until exhaustion took its toll.
The next day i felt ten feet tall and wore a goofy expression throughout.
Jock and the Magnificent Lions gave me a moment i will treasure forever even though i was too in love to watch .

That DD and PL have me seriously contemplating giving up elicits feelings of great sadness and anger.
They have betrayed our forefathers ,Jock and his magnificent Lions.

Celtic Champs Elect

Good morning all

Great reading as per

Thought this appropriate

McCaff & JNP walking into the nightclub for the first time :-))


This has me laughing.
Lasts 40 odd seconds, watch till the end.


CCE. 10.50.


CCE and JNP…LOL’d at both of them!! 🤣🤣 Need to get some work done now! Catch up later.


Just realised never answered the question.
Growing up, my second team was West Ham.
I always thought they played attractive football, Moore, Brooking, Devonshire etc.



One way to encourage clubs to spend more on youth development is to increase the UEFA solidarity payment to national associations and reduce prize money to individual clubs.
UEFA could/should be negotiating this with clubs and NAs but there is no reason why individual NAs and member clubs could not come to an agreement to redistribute prize money.
Instead like the worm Ouroboros that eats itself Scottish football feasts on it’s own inards until there is nothing left to consume.

Andy Pandy 2

Twisty, great story. Another one about bad luck. Back in the day my dad used to be a driving instructor. Just before Lisbon he had a number of books of raffle tickets for a chance to win a ticket to THE GAME. Anyway long story short mum had been filling in the names and dad had been collecting the money from his pupils. He also decide to buy one himself, but as mum went to fill in his name, dad mentioned that he’d got some money from a new pupil, so mum changed the name on the raffle ticket. Yep you’ve guessed it…..the new pupil won the raffle!!! He always laughed about when he repeated the tale, very rarely lost his temper, but mum always made a strategic exit when he told it…..



In Deference CSC

bada bing1


Probably the nicest quote I’ve ever seen about a Celt on loan to another club.

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