Football – The Unacceptable Face Of Capitalism?

Morning,all.

Yesterday’s comment from SALTIRES EN SEVILLA at 901 am certainly posed a few questions. It also demanded some deep thinking about those posers. Fortunately we are blessed on SENTINEL CELTS with the very people who can put their thoughts into words,and today it is the turn of SFTB to do just that.
 
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The saltires in Sevilla post is a great one and speaks the truth about supporter mentality. It definitely needs to be borne in mind if we genuinely want a change of structure at the club. I would only disagree over the choice of question to be asked at the AGM. I don’t think you can embarrass these people into abandoning a plc model which rewards them so well. But the question lies at the root of why we are so apathetic in challenging the structure.
 
 
Most of the dissent is just wasted breath (finger typing) on blogs exhorting others to do something or just boycott and all will be restored back to the Original Paradise. It lacks strategy and aims and is just a back bar revolutionary sloganising.
 
 
Celts for Change were influential because they organised and because they did the hard work. But even they would not have succeeded had Fergus and his crew not been poised to provide the funds necessary. This was a win for both social activism and corporate financing. Back then, the directors that lost out were no match for Fergus and his crew but Dermot Desmond and Lindsell Train are much harder targets to bring down.
 
 
I still see the Celtic Trust as best placed, both in terms of size, ability and motivation to organise the long term campaign for a change in the plc model. Our own blogger Celtic 1 Member 1 Vote has given a good outline of what could replace the current model but, make no mistake, all moves away from the current ownership will be resisted at all costs. Interim aims may have to be adopted.
 
 
Celtic Trust have 3 levels of membership ( I’m not sure why) at £60, £120 and £240 per year. This should attract a hard core of determined Celtic supporters but they may want to consider an associate membership level of £10 per year in order to enlarge the number of people who back their stance but do not want to be active in membership or turn up for events.
 
 
Either way, it will be a long haul event with no sure outcome. It will be really hard to overcome the plc structure. Genuinely fan owned clubs tend to be those rescued from threatened demise at the bottom of the pyramid leagues. The energy behind the efforts to save their club is not always sustainable and they often look to have their club sold to an owner again after a few years. The German and Spanish models seem to give a semblance of democracy but Spain relies heavily on charismatic wealthy individuals who get voted in to run the club with a knock on effect that they will promise more bling than the last guy; that’s not a sustainable position either. And the German clubs with supposed fan ownership have encountered a few tax problems and auditing issues along the way too.
 
 
I have little enough brain to propose the solution but I have enough to know that it will require blood, sweat and tears. Not just an occasional rant on a football blog, no matter how cathartic we find it.
 
 
And there is a potential cost. The top tier of football is a Capitalists-only playground. Unless the rest of the world changes our choice may be between keeping Celtic as a World-wide relevant club, via capitalist financing, in order to attract future generations, or seeking a more ideologically pure model which is content to operate outwith that sphere and make up the numbers at grass roots level.
 
 
Without a genuine world revolution, I cannot see a way to square the circle between relevance and purity.
 
 
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Above article by SFTB. Thanks for that,mate!

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Mahe

https://sentinelcelts.com/2021/06/01/unsurprised/#comment-167964

Saltires, only able to properly type now.
Thanks for the excellent comment earlier which has many good points.

You feel theres no general appetite for significant action but Im not so sure. This blog has a few that arent renewing, some that have renewed would join an organised protest/march.
Theres appetite for something, but a mass boycott from the support isnt going to be forthcoming. As you say, theres a solid number just want to go along for the ride and not think about what they are really funding, theres many circumstances tbh, the renewing number wont ever drop below,,,MIT thinks 40k and hes usually correct.

Each extreme lurch is different, no money worries this time but competency worries. With the club not staring death in the face as before, you think the faithful wont act, at least not the majority of them.
I believe they will if/when they see the club undeniably going to pot with useless leeches riding the gravy train. And its not just the club ,its the game itself.
The worst league in Europe now, I commonly refer to it as such.
With not cheap admission either for the Tims,,I was shocked to read the majority of the Ibrox clubs tickets are around the 400 mark which would explain why they are said to have sold out much quicker and are looking at a stadium expansion (ahem).
More worldwide fans and a much better selling strip, one third or so more income from season books and 10k more season book sales, yet we are humiliated, and very much look like facing another tanking.
Taking the absolute piss out of the clubs support, ignoring its history, doing shady backroom deals,, each of these are pushing more and more away.

Normally at this stage I would despair because a series of well played cards could usually settle the masses,,a name, some positive spin,and a sizable spend chiefly.
However,,thats off the table.
Dermot just isnt putting the hand in his pocket for whatever reason, and Peter looks to have made the club toxic, while we have whittled ourselves down to the worst squad I can remember.
New guy at the helm or not, this regime look to have made their positions untenable,, to which Dermot responds Im going nowhere.
Yes 94 was a clusterfluck, but this equally is.
We have ourselves a stand off with the club caught in the middle.

Those upset, the majority by now surely, may not have fully reached their personal Hit the Park tipping point, but where Im sitting another trainwreck of a season culminating in 56 plastered everywhere and a trashed George Square plus cowering public and attacked cops as usual may well push many over the edge,,and make no mistake thats totally what I believe is in store here.

All of the above is just the individual,,enter the groups.

Yes they arent the strongest or most organized around, but they have potential.
Forgetting the Trust for a moment, theres very little thought given to the impact the North Curve/Green Brigade/Celtic Shared crew bring to the matchday experience, in particular on the bigger days. Their absence would be sorely missed, a big spark gone.
An empty standing section, and no vocals or eye catching banner, would certainly be picked up.
While focus is mostly on the bigger Trust, the GB can be significant players in this battle.
As for the CT they seem upset and motivated, great. We could really, really use a strong group right now and if they ‘take the gloves off’ they will find plenty support.
Their numbers are unknown to me but if you could imagine a high profile game being officially sat out by the two groups mentioned above (who would be joined by other groups) that would give many a fan the impetus needed to join them at their rally point during matchtime, the alternative being a half empty ground, much quieter one at least.

Such scenes drop the share price and make the large investors sit up and take notice. Dermot would have a decision to make if the fans go publicly against him, hitting the bottom line. If the other investors dont like his decision, they could act.
Digging his heels in and lecturing us will cost fans, yet thats his style.
Big problem all around right there, yet another flop of a campaign and he will have zero answers that hold weight and nowhere to hide.
It feels like a tired cliche, but this next season really truly is our most important season in a long time, the main reason being it could absolutely break this PLCs back. This years frustrations will be tame in comparison.
The fans are wising up, the groups are tooling up, and the PLC cant stop effing up.

Its too early to call pal. I reckon give it a year and we will see significant action by fans.
Hail Hail

Garry

SFTB
Excellent article T.
Total nail on head job. Bravo 👍🍀💚

Mahe

SFTB,
The above answer sometimes ties into your article (cheers) but certain things jump out.

The PLC are rightfully getting hammered, but would this happen if the board ran a better ship?
I understand Saltines point is that we are officially a business first and foremost, I wonder if there’s a successful example of a PLC and club having a mutually beneficial relationship?

Our example of a PLC was probably the worst, stale bedfellows, and Dom immediately stated the need for modernization. I wonder if we witnessed a properly functioning PLC would we as a fanbase feel more at ease?
When the PLC is slated is it the board being hit or the actual fact we are actually a PLC, sometimes the lines blur.
I myself hit the PLC not for the fact they exist but the job they are doing, I believe most are the same.

On the membership scheme C1M1V has blogged of, I may be wrong but I believe it was aimed at growing the club to a level that would appeal to the PLC to hence adopt the model, but I could be wrong on that.
Forcing a PLC would surely be very hard, but as mentioned above the rest of the shareholders could act if figures plummet.
Another shit show season (less than three weeks to preseason and Ange will quarantine two of those if allowed to work at all), still fighting with the orgs, figures will plummet.
Money talks remember,,the PLC will be forced to adjust their approach if they wish the previous levels to return.
Probably the best we can do.

Take it easy.
Hail Hail

Óglach

Celtic’s Jack Hendry has agreed to sign a permanent deal with Oostende after the Belgian club triggered the ‘buy option’ of Hendry’s loan deal. A fee of less than £2 mill is thought to have been agreed between the 2 clubs. The expectation is that Hendry’s stay in Belgium will not last long with a number of EPL clubs having shown an interest in the Scottish international.

Fare thee well Jack

The Gombeen Man

1) Open the attached link.

2) Open, ‘People’.

3) Read through – Active Directors, ( David Low).

4) Click on Donald McIntyre.

5) Scroll down.

6) Read through Mr McIntyre’s previous Directorships.

“THREE THISTLES PLC – Officers (free information from Companies House)” https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/SC306747/officers

The Gombeen Man

This link will give some clarity on Mr McIntyre’s antecedents.

“Resolution 12: The Full Explanation. Part One – eTims” http://etims.net?p=10577

The proposed CT meeting on the 21st of June, may well comply with the Constitution of the Trust (Is there no scope, given the circumstances for an EGM?).

The problem is that by the 21st of June, thousands of STs will be sold.

It’s more than a little bit unfortunate that in a crucial season with CL bounty at stake, Celtic Plc have yet again contrived to screw up in an almighty fashion.

Celtic’s inability to identify a Coach or Director of Football, willing to take the job after months of searching. Is just the latest in a long list of howlers.

So the Chairman of the Celtic Trust is a Director of a small company with three current Directors. One of the three was the Financial Director at Ibrox in the final days of the Murray regime.

This guy was at the helm during the key moments of Res 12/11 and was a vital witness in the Craig Whyte trial

It’s only fair that Mr Low clarifies his business interests, given the position of trust that he holds.

It’s only fair too, that potential members of the Celtic Trust are made aware of material that isn’t in the public domain.

As an individual I’d also like to hear why Mr Low was involved with the Rangers Trust in 2010.

I was asked by a Celtic Blogger a couple of months ago to look into this matter.

I’ve done so and feel it’s now time that it’s shared with a wider audience.

This is an opportunity for Mr Low and the Celtic Trust to address some long standing concerns.

In many ways I hope that Mr Low can offer a satisfactory explanation. The way out of this involves transparency and Celtic and Rangers supporters both seeing that we’ve been let down at Boardroom level.

Maybe Mr Low and Mr McKay see that?

Who knows?

Till Later

Óglach

TGM

Excellent stuff a chara. Much food for thought there me thinks🤔

big packy

MORNING ALL amd JIM, some great posts there ghuys cap doffed,ill say again though, you 50.000 plus season ticket holders have the power to stop this shambles, please dont give them any money and watch them squirm,H.H. aff oot dugwalking,

Maestro Fan

Again, very thoughtful piece. As ever, the world is filled with rotten choices. I would say we are trending towards increasing international irrelevance already, partly due to capitalist forces beyond our control and partly through decisions we have made.

Friesdorfer

Good Morning all. Excellent leader and follow-up posts. TGM, illuminating information, which would benefit from clarification.
HH

saltires en sevilla

SFTB

Great stuff buddy. Completely agree on the overall thrust and definitely on the “back bar revolutionary sloganising” – I’m guilty as charged and I can’t help myself, unfortunately, it’s all we have for the moment, but as you say – unless we can combine and focus all these groups the messages will be lost and the ‘owners’ prevail.

I’d still like to see them squirm when forced to respond to that question – yet another revolutionary slogan …

‘Why are we a PLC?!’

Agreed. They won’t volunteer to change anything but that World Revolution is already happening in fitba and it’s outside their control. Their shares will not be worth anything like current (sic) values… They probably know this and might be more willing to Talk Turkey than we realise. Auldheid has often talked about a membership system. I would be willing to join that… unless the card is passport blue … I’d also be prepared to make regular payments towards improvements to squad or facilities or charitable/ good causes. Only if the Shareholders fek off ( I understand why they might not want to)

Love that “…relevance and purity” going to nip that from time to time , if you don’t mind.

It’s my view that anyone who ‘holds’ Celtic shares and sees them as a financial investment, in any way, deserves to lose their fekin shirt!

Spiderman’s Pyjamas (previous blog) & The Gombeen Man ( today) have probably hit the nail on the head regards to The Trust – there is an awfy whiff of the Peckham Dynamic Duo around the CST now. That’s a pity, because there are some right good folk around that group. Questions must be answered!

On your point tho’ I’d go for the £10 annual fee to cover basic CST admin costs. Thereafter, encourage members to collate existing shares as a short-term lever – you won’t be surprised that I object to any model that endorses buying or trading in Celtic shares. That smells like a scam! There would also have to be a change in leadership. Bring back J & C !!

Mahe – agree that the energy levels are rising and they may erupt this season. As I’ve said, it shouldn’t be difficult to have everyone who cares to ask the question of the ‘owners’…take every opportunity at water cooler, petrol station, news conferences AGM ( ha!) etc., etc. – a First Step I’d line them up ( only about 10 of them holding the bulk of shares) and ask them to justify their Celtic credentials… Why ARE we a PLC?! We can observe their responses & the way each one of them answers that Question might help focus and energise more of our fans & especially ST holders, as ultimately, they hold the real power.

Never trust anyone that harbours intentions to make money out of our club! ( normal wage earners get a pass, of course)

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

SFTB

Terrific piece,and grateful thanks. You echo some of my main concerns about the way forward for the club,particularly the huge differences between 1994 and now.

Then,CELTSFORCHANGE was the only show in town,and “social media” such as it was,was confined to a few fanzines. Once they got behind the protests,the momentum became unstoppable. Additionally,the club finances were a basket case,and there was a willing and able buyer lined up.

None of these things are now true-even after the pandemic,our finances are incredibly robust. The share price is defying gravity,and a buyout would be unlikely,short of someone having a spare £150m or so. And I suspect that the only people with that type of money are unlikely to fit our own “fit and proper” parameters.

Sure,we are in a very bad place on the playing and management side,but I will contend that we are in an even worse place regarding ownership. We are stuck with this model,because the alternatives are either implausible or unthinkable.

auldheid

SFTB

Your point on squaring the circle is spot on. I’ve been thinking we either become a St Pauli, a fascinating club in many ways/:the Gallician club who recruit only in Basque country whose name escapes me OR the puppets of some Oligarch or money making institute.

We are the frog in the boiling pot.

Like you I see CST being the best bet for forming a United front and as such whatever misgivings folk have would encourage joining.

The figures you quote sound like the donation way of contributing but I was told that did not give me rights to attend meetings but a monthly subscription does starting at £2 then £5 and upwards.

Unless things have changed since I joined there is a separate page for doing so with a link to it.

In terms of the possible, two proposals for Board and SFA reform to be converted to Resolutions for Celtic AGM were taken at the CST AGM to be re visited in the lead up to Celtic AGM for discussion and adoption.

That would normally be around September but the manner of Celic”s rejection of CST shares as added value proposal changes the timeframe, I suspect both proposals from new CST members will form part of the discussion.

You are also spot on about the Resolution Road being a hard slog with the voting power always in Celtic’s favour but what Celtic will not want is a resolution exposing their chicanery going public and if one is created and adopted and gets the required 100 signatures, it gets published in the AGM report for ALL shareholders to see and the media to report on. That produces meaningful negotiations which is reason Res12 became Res11 ‘- leverage.

So all eyes on CST meeting of 21 June to see which road is travelled and folk should join up if they want a say in the direction.

jimthetim53

I agree Auldheid. I am reassured by the fact that the Trust is a One Member One Vote organisation. If people have concerns about individuals in the leadership the members have the power to vote them off. The more members the better on several levels.
And yes the resolutions put forward by the trust may well be voted down at the AGM in November but not before being dissected by all and sundry, including the press. They would just love it.
The Board might just feel a bit uncomfortable with the bad publicity. Before anyone says it, ‘There’s no such thing as bad publicity’ – ask Gerald Ratner who crazily admitted selling his customers tat!
Selling their customers tat!!!

jimthetim53

Talking about Gerald Ratner, I just read that he now makes a living as a ‘motivational speaker’! More fool the folk who pay to listen to him.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

JIMTHETIM53

Maybe his audience will be motivated not to make the same mistakes as him!

Could this be a supplementary income for our outgoing CEO?

jimthetim53

Wouldn’t surprise me Bobby!

The Gombeen Man

Celtic were founded to make money.

In the early days that money was for a noble purpose.

With the establishment of a Private Limited Company in 1897 that noble purpose was diluted.

In 1994, a Public Limited Company was established. That noble purpose was further diluted.

What remained was the aim of making money.

What distinguishes the Old Firm from other faces of capitalism involved in football is a couple of things.

1) The noxious relationship behind the scenes between Celtic and Sevco. Evidenced by Res11/12 and our complicit downsizing to facilitate the Old Firm model.

3) The reliance on a fear based sectarian model to support the primary aim of making money. And numerous concerns following from that exploitative policy.

The Celtic Foundation are now the primary charitable vehicle associated with the Club. I know BMCUWPS is working on an article aimed at highlighting some concerns.

I have my own concerns and will share them later.

As a modest shareholder I have a number of concerns about the CST.

1) What’s the procedure for disclosure of business interests and possible conflicts of interest of CST Board Members?

2) From the Constitution of the CST (below)…

” If the member of the Trust subsequently attends the Celtic plc AGM then company law dictates that the proxy would automatically become invalid, but it would obviously be expected that all Trust members in attendance would vote in accordance with Trust policy. Trust members would be expected to give 14 days notice to the Secretary of the Celtic Trust that they intended to attend in person. Where it became known that a Trust member voted against Trust policy at a Celtic Plc AGM they would be expelled from the Trust.”

From a personal point of view, handing over my franchise to any organisation is beyond the pale.

For example the potential influence of Supporters Clubs and their constitutional relationship with Celtic Plc.

Five members of the Executive Committee of the CST come from existing Supporters Associations.

“Constitution – The Celtic Trust” https://celtictrust.net/constitution/

The Trust is a slow burner.

The primary concern is for the parents and youngsters about to make financial sacrifices to support a Plc that would make a Russian Oligarch blush.

bada bing1

The SFA pull out 6 players from tonight’s bounce game, after Fleck’s positive Covid test,…..they’re kidding nobody….

Margaret McGill

Sorry folks you’re pissing in the wind if you think that Celtic’s current custodians are going to compromise or negotiate when there is still an income. Why would a corporate dictatorship countenance any peasantry?
You all know that there is only one solution. Nae money.

big packy

AFTERNOON ALL and JIM, brendan is coming back, no not brendan rodgers my school friend\ brendan sludden, we played together in our lady and st josephs boys guild team, boy could he tackle, remember once during training i was bombing down the wing doing a bobby lennox, and he tackled me nearly broke my leg, brendan i said you ever do that again and ill << well he was well over 6 feet and i was 5 foot 7 😎 apparently he has his coaching badges now so lets get started, i wonder if the fact he is 68 now and got his coaching badges with larkhall celtic will be an obstacle in the way😎 another true story

jimthetim53

Afternoon Packy, Brendan is best left where he is, keeping up a good Tim presence in Larkhall!

Will there much arguments in your house tonight? Wee Joan shouting on England and you giving it all for Scotland!

big packy

HI JIM, no arguments, wee joan shouts for scotland or she will be picking up the dogs herself tomorrow, and no stovies, another true story😎

jimthetim53

Packy, LOL 🙂

jimthetim53

I’m sure I heard that Paul McStay came from Larkhall but i just looked up Wiki and there’s no mention of it.

big packy

JIM, yes, i heard that as well, someone told me everything is painted red white and blue in larkhall ,even the grass, another true story😎

jimthetim53

Packy, they wanted ASDA to change their signage from Green to Blue!

big packy

JIM, wee joans friend julie from burnley think ive mentioned her before ,she loves scotland, even got married there, she just sent some videos of where she is just now, loch morlich, it looks stunning, cairngorms in the background with some snow, and what looks like a lovely beach, im embarrassed did not have a clue where it was😎

St tams

Jim.
The Mcstays were from Larkhall.
Some of them still stay there today

jimthetim53

Cheers St tams, I thought that.

jimthetim53

I’m the same Packy, car ownership was not common when & where I grew up. Seaside resorts were our norm – Like Sol Kitts! Bus trips or the train. In the 70s it was Blackpool for the Fair. After that flying to the sun!

big packy

JIM,remember the mystery tour bus trip from coatbridge, it either ended up at peebles or callendar., another true story😎

jimthetim53

Packy, one year we went on Fair Monday to Portobello by train. A couple of days later we went on the SMT mystery bus trip. Guess where it went? Portobello! My mother & father were raging 🙂 When they realised the bus was going Eastwards they were hoping for Burntisland.

The Real McCoy

Big Packy and Jim,
My uncle used to drive the bus for the Airdrie Ludge mystery tour. They always had a sweep to guess where they would go.
He won it every time 😱😂 💷💰
#AfoolandhismoneyCSC

big packy

THE REAL MCOY and JIM 👍😎

jimthetim53

The Real McCoy, LOL 🙂

Jobo Baldie

There’s 9 (NINE) Celtic or former Celtic players in Scotland’s starting 11 tonight.

Jobo Baldie

Actually, maybe Stevie Clarke’s killing 2 birds with 1 stone here – a pre Euro Scotland friendly AND a pre season Celtic match?

jimthetim53

Jobo, Good luck to Scotland tonight, they’re gonna need it I think! 🙂

big packy

good luck to scotland tonight, this made me proud to be a scotsman 👍 https://youtu.be/opsudWaeNqk

Sol Kitts

Big Packy
You need to go on the naughty step 😂😂😎

A thing of beauty

Jobo,
How the lights have fallen. I wouldn’t have considered Clarke after BR, now I’d take him in a heart beat.

big packy

SOL, we have just scored, jack hendry, were on the march with stevies army😎😎

saltires en sevilla

Jack Hendry – belter 1-0

saltires en sevilla

1-1 no defence

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

ATHINGOFBEAUTY

Me anaw. How the mighty have fallen.

big packy

ah well thats fitba, still think we will win 3-1👍

Leggy

ATOB,

Is that Stevie or Petula 😜😜

saltires en sevilla

Leggy

2 years ago – I saw Petula Clark live at Cropredy festival – she’s got Eurovision A licence – aye!
mebbes she could run our team – we could do worse…

Sol Kitts

Big Packy
These nicknames are priceless. 😂😂😎

https://youtu.be/jUU8bLQfmKQ