Legends Of The Game?

Morning,all.

As I said yesterday,it’s good to be a Tim.  More accurately perhaps,good to be a Celtic supporter. Four years ago,the citizens of Lisbon could not believe that around 7000 of us descended on their city despite the fact that there wasn’t a game on.

Just like fifty years before,not an arrest. Same in Seville with nearly 100,000 of us,no trouble at all.

We take our love of the club wherever we feel like it,and we wear that like a badge of honour.  Not even a need for self-policing usually,though it is becoming a worrying trend.

But our influence on the game goes back a lot longer than the events above,and a lot deeper too. Many of us will be aware of the story of Johnny Madden because of the lustrous wordsmithery of BROGAN ROGAN TREVINO AND HOGAN. He told the tale of the great man via a wee tale of Lubo signing for Dr Jo. If you haven’t read it,you should.

The tale of Lubo and Joe —– and the old man in the park! | Strandsky Tales & Stories (wordpress.com)

Johnny kicked the first ball for Celtic,played for us for a number of medal-laden years,then decided to moved to the Czech part of Austria-Hungary about 1905. He then turned Slavia Prague into a machine. To the extent that when the European clubs ran a competition in,erm,competition to the inaugural cup in 1930,Slavia were runners-up.

Johnny is known and respected to this day as the father of the game in his adopted country. A country that was known for its skill,even if there were few occasions when they could show that on the wider stage abroad.

So it was that I opened an article about another forgotten man who was pivotal in the foundation of the game in not one,but two,nearby countries. And at just about the same time. Altough the article was about an administrator called Mr Shires,the name that jumped out at me in that article was Jimmy Hogan. I’ll post it a link to that later,but here’s one via CELTICWIKI.

Hogan, Jimmy – Right Man, Wrong Time – The Celtic Wiki

Jimmy Hogan was doing in Austria and Hungary exactly the same as Johnny Madden had done a few years before. And anyone who knows their football-awright,anyone who got the Topical Times at Christmas and Shoot every week-knows that the interwar years showed Austria to be damnnear unbeatable,and that Hungary were not far behind them.

Even after the war.

So,Jimmy Hogan,why the article?

Jimmy was hired by Bob Kelly in 1948. He was 67yo by then,a good number even if he didn’t realise it at the time. It seems that a number of the players did not appreciate the different approach from Jimmy. We didn’t have internet then,so his legend would likely be unknown. But Tommy Docherty-infamous for his indiscipline!-adored him and listened. Indeed,he called him the best coach the world had ever seen.

Charlie Tully sat down and paid attention.

And so too did Bertie Peacock,Sean Fallon and…

Jock Stein.

Those last three in particular are known for finishing training and hitting a restaurant or café and talking tactics and strategy. Cruet sets,cups and saucers,anything was fair game. I wonder,reading back about the sadly unlamented Jimmy Hogan,just how much input he had to the thoughts of those three giants of our club.

My Dad calls the days before 1965 The Famine Years,and he certainly has a point. But there was a wee few glory days in the 50s. And I am pretty damn sure that they came from the people who listened to Jimmy Hogan.

Jock   and Sean listened and learned. Like Alex Ferguson did with Jock,they did with Jimmy.

Jimmy Hogan is an afterthought in Celtic’s history. I genuinely believe he should be a legend.

++++++

Above article by BMCUWP

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Auldheid

Glad you hadn’t lost that article BMCUW. I’ll dig into the links later although I lived through the barren years from 1958 to 1965.

fan

For boxing fans on here.

bada bing1

Seems the rags are looking at historical social media posts from the Laptop Loyal……..the Motherwell born billionaire guy, not getting much sleep…..

fan

BMCUWP
To think we regressed so far from Jimmy Hogan to a guy like Neil Lennon twice who showed no inclination to use modern coaching methods????

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

FAN

Thanks for the boxing doc,mate. There has never been a more fascinating-and by its nature-brutal division than the heavyweights. Liston’s hatred of the world,Ali’s speed and endurance-wow,that jab!-and Frazier’s swarm. Though even Joe didn’t swarm like Marciano,a man who shouldn’t even have been a boxer,much less an undefeated Heavyweight World Champion!

Then there’s George Foreman,maybe the most perfectly sculpted specimen of humanity since the ancient Greeks and Romans downed tools,though possibly a point could be made that even after two or three thousand years,their statues hadn’t put on as much weight as George did in a mere twenty years. And that they moved faster too…

After Larry Holmes though,only Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis have really done any justice to their predecessors. I find it sad that the division is now filled with journeymen holding an alphabetti spaghetti version of the title.

There were other divisions which held my interest in my youth too. Who can forget the four-way between Hagler,Hearns,Leonard and Duran? It is arguable if Duran even deserved to be there,after cheating the legendary Ken Buchanan of his title and then denying him a rematch. Had Ken been given that rematch,whose side would your money be on?

Had Ken also been five years younger? Well,I would have crawled over broken glass to see him and Hagler fight. The others would not have got near him.

My Papa was born in 1892,and loved the sport. He said that the best he’d ever seen were Liston and Ali. But Ken wasn’t far behind them. That’s pretty much good enough for me!

GER57

I thought I was quite well versed in Celtic’s history, but I’d never heard of Jimmy Hogan till today. Great article and link. Jock Stein wasn’t too proud to learn from anyone. Did he not persuade Bob Kelly to fund the Celtic squad’s attendance at the Hungary/England game? I read that that game heavily influenced his thinking on how fitba’ should be played.

MAGUA

BMCUW

A fine tribute to a world-renowned coach. If memory serves me correctly, it was Jimmy Hogan who recommended Jock Stein to Bob Kelly, when Jock was playing for Llanelli, in Wales.

Both us-and the Huns-feel the repercussions of that fateful decision, to this very day. It gave us eternal bragging rights, in recalling a certain Thursday night in May 1967…and for your average Hun, it is a daily kick in the hee-maws. 😀

MAGUA

Ger57

I recommend ‘The Jimmy Hogan Story’ by Norman Fox, available from Abebooks online. I’m still waiting for my copy to arrive, so will get back to you, when I have actually read it.

Hail Hail.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
MAGUA

Looks like Kyogo will be out injured for a month or so. It’s a blow, but it’s not a disaster. We have GMac, and Jota who is happy to fill in any position up top. Then of course we have a couple of likely lads in the B team.

The most important thing here, is the welfare of Kyogo. He must not be forced into playing, if he is not fully fit.

Look at what happened to KT. Many times.

Hail Hail.

SFTB

Just a first reminder to the Superbru predictor bhoys that they have to get this week’s predictions in before 12.30 pm tomorrow when Sevco are due to start losing in Perht.

Gordon64

“Celtic Football Club on Twitter: “September 10, 2021 marks 36 years to the day when the single most important figure in taking #CelticFC beyond the norm passed away. RIP, Jock Stein 🍀” / Twitter” https://mobile.twitter.com/CelticFC/status/1436283485073907715?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Saltires en Sevilla

Bobby

Great links to Jimmy Hogan and imagine having an opportunity to sit down for a Pivo or twa with him and Johnny Madden- these guys are footballing heroes. A few friends in Czech who knew all about him and the Celtic connections.

When the C19 allow – a wee group trip to Bohemia and especially Pilsen, then down Danube to Budapest would be marvellous.

PS I know there was a recent tribute to Johnny Madden. Very well attended.

bada bing1

Real Betis not allowing Celtic fans in next week

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

GORDON64

Tremendous article about our captain. Thanks for linking it!

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

I found the correct addy for ESTADIO,and he replied with a link to the story mentioned by MAGUA.

https://enematic.wordpress.com/2013/09/10/unintended-consequences/

While his article is fascinating,his mail in reply to me made me laugh out loud for the first time in over a fortnight. He really is something else…

Thanks,Matt.

Billy Bhoy

Having made the decision to avoid Celtic Park for the foreseeable future I am very pleased to see that the club have announced that the Pass to Paradise will be active tomorrow. I’m hoping that they will continue with this until the situation improves, which I imagine will take several months at least given the current numbers.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

BILLYBHOY

Thanks for that information. I agree,very much the correct decision. This pandemic,and the fall-out from it still has some way to go.

And not just in football.

fan

Pertinent and love having a coach who recognizes players flaws and adjusts.
http://celticbynumberscom.ipage.com/starfelt-must-avoid-the-duffy-trap/

CaltonTongues
Chairbhoy

Wow!! Some news Calton Tongues…

Hail Hail

bada bing1

McKay walks

Saltires en Sevilla

McKay is away .. family reasons … hope everyone is ok!

Temporary replacement at CEO is Michael Nicholson….a good “team player”

Can he play CDM?

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

Bloody hell,that is an absolute bombshell that Dom has effed off. Absolutely no idea why,and no chance either of ever finding out.

On the plus side,I assume there is a desk full of CVs from when the position was last available,similar to when BR left.

Aw,scratch that…

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

There is no way that I can take the credit for this,but I’d max all my credit cards out for one!

Again from ESTADIO…

Saltires en Sevilla

Attrition rates for CEO role at Paradise now looking closer to industry standard …

Maybe not!

Gordon64

I can definitely smell 💩
“Celtic Football Club on Twitter: “Celtic Football Club announced today that Chief Executive Dom McKay has stood down from his position for personal reasons. #CelticFC’s Director of Legal and Football Affairs Michael Nicholson has been appointed to the Board of Celtic plc as acting CEO. Full statement ⤵️” / Twitter” https://mobile.twitter.com/CelticFC/status/1436354362981470234?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

MAGUA

FFS. Just when we all thought we were on the up and up. Something fishy here, but I’ll hold off commenting further, untill all the facts are known.

BMCUW

Thanks for those 2 links earlier. Matt’s was a cracker.

Hail Hail.

The Real McCoy

Good to read Estadio again 👏🙏🏻
A Butterfly Flaps It’s Wings-Michael Marra

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P_pIG-vFzRY

MAGUA

Just been reading an article by Joe McHugh on another channel. The new CEO has been at the club since March 2013, and is very much in the Peter Lawwell, risk-averse style of management. Whoopee.

Now, if we were still in the situation where fans were not allowed into Paradise, I would be extremely worried at this development. The days of the Old Guard are feckin’ well over.

The only positives from the situation, is that Ange has already shown, that he has the moxy to stand up to the eejits in the boardroom.

The next few days will be very illuminating.

Hail Hail.

Maestro Fan

Looks like Dermot and Peter have gone full death grip!

Ayrshire Bhoy

Acsom have done a reaction pod on YouTube, seems they have same feelings as most on SC. Not good news for me this. Let’s hope Ange isn’t pissed off

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

GORDON64

Hard to believe that it is 36 years since Jock died. We were truly blessed to have him-in all the roles he had.

I suppose Pools Manager was an insult too far,and rightly so. Desmond White might have smirked as he fired the great man,as he had held a clear dislike for him over the years.

It is Jock though who is remembered,revered and loved. And who has a statue outside the stadium.

MAGUA

Ayrshire Bhoy

Ange may well be pissed off. He may also feel isolated. Whose gonna have his back, apart from the support? Certainly not the two Muppets he inherited as his assistants. Interesting times ahead.

I only hope that any protests against this latest development, are kept outside the ground. The last thing Ange and the team need right now, is a poisonous atmosphere inside Paradise.

Back The Team.

Chase The Board.

Hail Hail

Ayrshire bhoy @6:15 – just as wee PLC mascot Strachan got the all clear yesterday.

Hmmmmm

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

AYRSHIREBHOY et al

It is wrong to speculate on what has happened,we must bear in mind that there might well be genuine personal reasons why Dom has left his position. As an example,his parents are not getting any younger. I discovered last month that mine are still tending to their portraits in the attic,however that is not the case for everyone.

On the other hand,like most of us on here,I am not happy with this at all. While I do feel that the decision is Dom’s alone,that he wasn’t “mutually consented”,I think he left to protect his own reputation.

Having a CEO leaving to protect his own reputation after little more than two months in the job makes the position toxic.

What we have here is a CEO who did not agree with how the PLC was being run. As we did three years ago with a manager in disagreement on how the football operation was being run.

We can only hope that we have learned from the latter. Anyone who believes that though should send me their lottery numbers.

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KEV

I was never really a fan of NEW ORDER,nowhere near as good as JOY DIVISION. But they did have one good line,about 3’38 into this.

Maybe they wrote it with you in mind…

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=new+order%2fyour+silent+face&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dnew%2border%252Fyour%2bsilent%2bface%26cvid%3dc9dee2272e4446f2b49e679ef631bdc6%26aqs%3dedge..69i57j0l6j69i60l2.12350j0j1%26pglt%3d43%26FORM%3dANNTA1%26PC%3dHCTS&view=detail&mid=2F55DCDC65B3129F821B2F55DCDC65B3129F821B&&FORM=VDRVRV

Rebus67

Just when I began to feel that the ship was being righted, we get the exit of, on the surface, an innovative CEO. As Bobby says, there may be non business reasons for Dom to go. If there are, I expect these will be winkled out in the future. However, if the reasons are based in differences of opinion then the news is dire. In that scenario, the gulf in opinion on the way forward must be huge to make Dom juggle with his career at this stage of his development. It is also possible that he has received what he regards as a better offer, and he wants to take it. In the latter case shame on him.

Solely in my opinion, I fear his departure is due to differences in policy and approach. Let’s look at a couple of events that preceded his decision. Firstly, there is the transfer window. Did things turn sour there when Dom’s workload went through the roof and he was refused adequate support? Was it a wage structure issue that needed to change to make Celtic competitive? Secondly, we have the consulting appointment of WGS. Did this fly across the bows of what Dom intended?

Perhaps, we shall know more in time but what is clear now is that Celtic are a dysfunctional organisation with an uncertain future. Share price anyone?

Rebus

fan

Never felt McKay was going to be allowed to change things.
The same puppeteers are still in charge.

MAGUA

A few random thoughts.

The board must have known that this was in the pipeline…hence the new CEO being appointed so rapidly.

IF this guy is a temporary fix, until we get someone new in, why not simply leave the post vacant? After all, the post was basically vacant for 17 years, while PL insisted on interfering in footballing matters.

If we get someone new to replace DOM, who is gonna show the new guy the ropes, if DOM ain’t returning? Surely not Sir Peter of that ilk.

WGS. No. Just no. Even though he is a youngster in comparison to most of the PLC board.

Hail Hail.

fan

Maybe coincidental but DD and his cohorts have always fought hard against having a Celtic supporter on the board.

bada bing1

Historical social media…..

CFC

Rebus67

Share your take on matters given the limited information we have.

Perhaps this is my knee jerk reaction based on perceptions of a compliant Board we suspect having a corporate ethic based on an equal/ symbiotic business relationship – the Old / Reinvented Firm.

There is no denying your “dysfunctional” description is apt.

The Shit and the Fan are getting closer to centrifugal force.

Not a great look, whatever way this is spun.

Billy Bhoy

Like everyone else I am stunned at tonight’s news.

Like others, I had heard that Dom was unhappy and frustrated at interference from DD and PL, but you always hope its just idle speculation. I suppose we’ll soon know if in the next few weeks or months he pops up in another role elsewhere.

Gordon64

Bada That was my thoughts after the Janey Godley news 🤔

bada bing1

G64- my Bhoy text me last night saying he was away,same sourse saying it’s historical stuff…allegedly

Chairbhoy

Rebus67 @ 6:57 pm,

Perhaps, we shall know more in time but what is clear now is that Celtic are a dysfunctional organisation with an uncertain future…

For me that has been clear for quite some time, the question was could we turn a corner?

The fact that Ange and Dom were the only new faces and the DofF, nor the backroom staff, nor the Board changes you would expect to see have happened.

In fact we know Peter Lawwell is still employed by the Club, DD still pulls the strings and our non-executive, non contributing Board and Chairman are still in place.

Literally they have changed Ange for Lenny, that’s it, the fholk who have presided over the abject failure of last season are still there.

Now I respect BMCUWPS stating we should wait until further facts are established, yet consider this, we are where we dysfunctionally are and that’s a fact.

Now maybe Dom McKay is leaving the job he loves and gave blood, sweat and tears over the last five months due to some personal tragedy.

Well if you were he and that was the case would that Club statement really suffice – that cold minimalist two paragraphs. While your “temporary;)” replacement gets lauded!!

A statement that was issued to the stock exchange just before close on a Friday evening.

Come on, trust this Board, never.

I’ve said it before and I’ll state it again, there is something rotten in the state of Parkhead and my bet it’s the usual suspects.

Hail Hail

Susan

So how much does the CEO impact the team’s performance on the pitch?

Watched for a long time but first post. How does anyone know what the reasons are . Speculate? Who cares?

Susan

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