Rock n Roll football

To think that six months ago there was a Greek Australian I had never heard of, but capable of grabbing our club and support and turning their lives inside out, upside down. But in a good way.
Our hero was out there all along, just waiting for a club like us.
Waiting, that’s actually my point.

 

Why was Ange waiting, why had he never made the breakthrough until Eddie said no and second choice accepted?
My theory is this type of football we are seeing.

 

Now dont me wrong I’m not complaining, his style is hitting the spot for this Tim, but that’s it, for a Tim.
That style isn’t for the EPL. Much too open. That style isn’t for the big five leagues, quality teams can counter at will, most will score one outta two chances.
That style suits a certain team, one that can challenge in an inferior league like our own. Throw in an attacking football tradition with fans that want entertainment and we found a winner folks.
We. Maybe a few others could accept that, but we are one of the few that style suits.

 

Now, this is perplexing me. Ange must know that type of football has a ceiling.
SPL not EPL. He has also stated he won’t change, that style is here to stay, he would prefer a 3-2 over a 1 nil.
Fair nuff, it’s his career and all but,,,,

 

The chap clearly has something. He seems to have good man management and some tactics. Most have one or the other, the elite have both. We’ve seen the ability to learn for example dropping the two fullbacks coming into centre midfield for kickouts. He’s brave, so many players have been played and dropped so as to remove any claims of loyalty or weakness.
He has an eye for a player, Kyogo Furuhashi is one hell of a player and one hell of a find, pat yourself on the back big man.
He’s getting great results from about half our total squad, the others have been dismissed.
His work is mighty impressive full stop.
But that one (alledged) flaw of not being able to close the back door appears to have cost him a lot.
We finally bit, but by necessity. How many others just couldn’t afford such an approach?

 

The question is,,,Why?
Why will this talented football manager not attempt to arrest his weak spot in order to reach the h6pinnacle?
Attacking football AND strong defense,,,
He could take his pick!

 

This actually reminds me of Jurgens ‘Rock n Roll’ football at Dortmund. Great on the eye, but couldn’t be so open at the top level. He had a plan though.
At a giant club he could play that football but with caveats,,the main central defender had to be world class in order to close the sieve (Van Dyke), and so did his wing backs (Robertson and a local), they had to work their absolute socks off plus offer an attacking outlet when called for.
The system also needed a world class midfielder to protect them (Henderson)
It worked.

 


Perhaps Ange could slowly but surely perfect his trade at a certain giant club.
It would be interesting for us, benefit the team, and the man himself.
Keep an eye on this one, he’s smart and might just realize hes at the correct place for that learning curve.

 

By Mahe
sentinelcelts@gmail.com

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Margaret McGill

Mahe
I think once AP manages to coach the coaches he’s off.

On the OF front I think Glasgow Rangers ( for that is who they are) will need a wee financial rest. Again.

Saltires en Sevilla

Mahe

It seems he has players reaching into places they didn’t know they could go

The Turnbull example – last season no way is he chasing that ball down then checking the opponent.. waiting for the pass inside to McGregor ( who wouldn’t have been making that run … maybe ?)

Maybe Mickey Johnstone fluffed his lines .. but if that move had come off we were away up the park with men over … but I accept he could have slipped the easier pass to reach a similar situation .. maybe he wanted to completely nullify the immediate opponent

We are going to see a lot of that

Ralston up heading a superb free kick onto the bar with Joe Jordan force… then showing their second goal scorer too much space .. getting an earful from Big Joe.. learning all the time ?

Turnbull aforementioned, plus a delightful chip pass to release Kyogo who almost dinked keeper

Then we see both Turnbull and McGregor taking pot shots when Kyogo was just waiting open for a simple rolled pass

They are learning All the time and Ange will be pointing this stuff out.

That Fercenvaros player with wicked bending shot off the bar … took me back to Eight years old and a Jairzinho or Rivelino shot off the bar … spent my life trying banana shots

I’ll try and find it…

Saltires en Sevilla

Saltires en Sevilla

I’m No’ comparing Celts to Brazil 70

Or even Celts 70

Afore any if ye start… 😏

Saltires en Sevilla

Magus from last nite

Aye , you are spot on …25 million… and the rest buddy

A thing of beauty

Not had time to read the article before our dog walking. Just wanted to say to McCaff if his game is on it will be like blow football, especially in kilbirnie. Enjoy!!

Iljasb

It’s not that the system would only work in SPFL and not in the EPL. The crucial variable is the quality of the players. It can work in the EPL if there’s a higher quality of player and of course that would happen if Celtic were in EPL with all the financial resources that become available. Same comment applies to competing in Champions League qualifiers.

The Fenian Whaler

As previously stated, in my opinion, Ange’s report card shows 5 out of ten thus far in his short tenure at Celtic.
The reason that no clubs from the ‘big leagues’ have been inclined to consider him is, again in my opinion, twofold. His record, statistically, is not overly impressive and he seems to lack the required pragmatic approach to tactics and formations that a lot of top coaches have. Saying you aren’t going to change your footballing philosophy no matter what even when you don’t have the players at your disposal to implement your chosen style of play and formation seems more like petulance than proper senior football management.
Perhaps the lead article is correct and his type of attacking style suits lesser leagues but ask yourself this had we been playing Bayer Leverkusen or Real Betis on Thursday do you honestly believe we would have got a result away from home playing as we did? The Ferencvaros team, if we are really honest, is poor which somewhat confirms that Ange’s tactics are perhaps best suited against less talented / coached sides. But yet worryingly we let them back into the game rather than closing up shop at 3-1 up.
January’s window will show if Ange can really spot a player, that is if he is allowed to sign his own choice of players. Kyogo must have the PLC rubbing their hands in anticipation of receiving a very large windfall should he keep banging in the goals. Of course, the PLC must dig deep and support Ange in bringing in the players he feels he needs in January, but will they?
Being a Celtic supporter I continue to wish Ange every success and understand he inherited a totally dysfunctional team that required a complete rebuild. Yet, thus far, even giving him a great deal of latitude because of the task he took on he has done little to assuage my doubts he really has the ability to manage a club the size of Celtic and meet the ‘realistic’ expectations of the support. Winning the SPFL this season would go a long way to putting doubters like me, and there are many, back in our boxes.

Maestro Fan

Mags,

I agree. The plc plan is Kennedy and Strachan ASAP. Toxic clique controls the club.

St tams

The Fenian Whaler
Can’t agree more.
The 3 forward substitutions summed it up on Thursday night.
I hate to say it, but I feel that Ange is a bit delusional, in his outlook.

In saying that, I’ll be at Dens Park tomorrow cheering the boys on.

Make, Jordan Henderson, world clas . You at the wind up

CFC

T F W

All reasonable points to ponder but 5/10 for a team in transition sitting 4 points off the top, a cup semi to come and European footy after Christmas.
Glad you didn’t do my staff appraisals back in the day.
B+ is my grading.

bada bing1
Saltires en Sevilla

TFW

Aye- some good points and Ange does give the overall impression of having a one dimensional outlook. Tho’ a deeper dive illustrates that isn’t the case, as others better equipped than me have identified on here.

TBH I genuinely thought the 5/10 comment referred to the five (5) European wins this season. Including two away and scoring 3 goals away from home on three separate occasions.

Id say A 5/10 first quarter- term report card is a wee bit harsh, considering the late start and transitional impacts.

All about opinions and good to get them on here to open up debate

HH

The Fenian Whaler

The average height of Celtic’s 1st choice forwards is now a massive 1.7m. Ange really is trying to emulate the great Barca team 😁Speaking of Barca, has Henke been canned? If so get him on the coaching team asap Ange

Saltires en Sevilla – I thought I was being generous at 5/10. Far far too many dropped points in a league no with real opposition outwith Sevco if one considers the resources at his disposal, the biggest squad in Scotland, etc. Combine that with a decidedly average and malfunctioning ‘The Rangers’ team that should be there for the taking. He has to win the league – simples

Craig76

Not sure if I’ve posted this 1 before.
Here’s hoping Giakoumakis can emulate Big Sammy

Bluegrass Celt

I like big Ange and hope he does well but at the moment, he’s too one dimensional and technically naive when it comes to game management.
I’d be happy if we invested January money in a really good defensive, second in command and banish Kennedy and Strachan to the B team or out altogether.
Not got a scooby who that would be, but there’s definitely a missing link there that needs addressed
Still a massive improvement from last year’s disaster but I get the 5/10 from some.

A thing of beauty

Thanks for the article Mahe. I simply cannot agree that Jordan Henderson is world class. Not even close. I’m sure you just put these wee vignettes in there to wind me up. 😂😂
TFW,
I think 5/10 is harsh. I agree he could be more pragmatic but he’s told us plenty of times he won’t be so we have to go with it though he has altered the inverted full backs a little, I think. We also have to remember as others have said, he’s only got half the players he needs but it undeniable that he’s improved players individually and as a team.
I think we are going to get increasing problems with injury and may explain why AP’s first season does not lead to the title. It takes a season for players to become used to the levels required physically and mentally everyday. Once that happens and he adds players suited to his system then you get success. The problem comes with sustaining those levels and someone far more clever than me has pointed this out with the likes of Liverpool and how there is always a tail off. Personally I think the high energy Liverpool play feeds a lot off the crowd and they missed that last season. We did too, though that had nowt to do with high energy!!

bada bing1

5/10 is a bit harsh IMO, considering the shambles left by Lennon, its a whole new team in a few months, sure i would like to see us be a bit better defensively, but remember the shite we were subjected to last season.

Auldheid

On Rangers accounts. Check this analysis by an accountant on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/TJ_Scarves/status/1456949831256231941?s=20

Check his conclusions on what is needed to end the moral hazard that makes Scottish football corrupt.

Moral hazard was an issue the CST Members were concerned about. It was reflected in the resolution they voted to adopt in August 2021 yet it was removed, wittingly or unwittingly in the version the CST created over weekend of 16 October 2021.

The fact those amending did not understand the purpose of that resolution in spite it being set out on The CST Forum where it was first aired as a draft is puzzling as is the disregard for planning for delivery in good time put to members.

Aim of The Note of Concern Resolution.

” For all our differences as Celtic fans, supporting the team and new manager and keeping pressure on the PLC board for their appalling management of the club seems to be the one thing we can all agree on.

With the PLC AGM on the horizon in November or December, a draft of a Note of Concern resolution for tabling at the PLC AGM has been created for discussion by members. It was circulated by e mail but is now being placed here in the new Celtic Trust Forum to allow discussion and feedback from members to be taken into consideration to establish a final version

If this can be done before the rearranged members meeting on 10th August, then an informed decision can be made there to adopt the Note of Concern Resolution and discuss the logistics of delivery given there are now many more members than the 100 minimum required to enable a resolution to be tabled.

If not finalised by the rearranged 10th August meeting then an alternative timescale can be agreed for finalising agreement that allows for the logistics of delivery of signed resolution forms to Celtic before they begin production of their AGM papers in which the full Resolution will appear. The PLC AGM date, if November, is usually announced mid to late October including the agenda and tabled resolutions, so the target date for delivery of signed resolution forms would be end of September. Your feedback would be appreciated as soon as you are able to consider the draft and post your views.

Trust members will no doubt have further questions about the process ahead of the PLC AGM and what the Note of Concern resolution hopes to achieve and to provide context the following are the main objectives although others may emerge from feedback:

• Accountability Its aim is to show Celtic supporters that the Board can be held accountable by the CST for the generally unacceptable way, but particularly at the 2019 Celtic AGM, they handled shareholders request that UEFA investigate the process under which a UEFA licence for Rangers FC PLC was treated by the SFA to the cost of Celtic’s share value.

• Restoring Trust It opens the way for meaningful dialogue between CST and the new CEO to be established (an aim of CST) allowing for a new, more positive relationship with Dominic McKay and the Board.

• Veracity It makes it a matter of record that what Rangers did (and continue to do) is use moral hazard* to take risks that Celtic and other clubs had to face the consequences of, thereby excusing PL and the Board’s behaviour to a degree. (This more conciliatory tone should address the external criticism of always being negative to the Board).

• Incompetence/Negligence. Only the cost of legally proving Celtic deliberately lied at the 2019 AGM with no guarantee of success stopped a more serious resolution in respect of breach of Director responsibilities to shareholders. This does not mean the Board were not misleading in their replies but even if not deliberately so, nevertheless they were negligent and incompetent in not addressing the shareholders’ concerns and so deserve a Note of Concern to be placed on 2021 AGM record.

• Providing Leverage If Celtic were to vote against the proposed Resolution, it would mean justifying what they did against the facts stated in the recital. This may give the CST leverage in reaching a communication accord with Celtic rather than it all going public, which will happen when a final resolution is published in AGM papers. Celtic fear this.

• Giving Celtic Fans a Say. Adopting some of the recommendations to the English FA by Tracy Crouch in respect of improving communications between clubs and their support, specifically to restore trust, would be a pioneering move in Scotland and worth exploring by Celtic and supporters’ representatives.

• Reparation – it seems grossly unfair that those that were led on by Celtic’s CEO over years on this important issue should be out of pocket. Could this be an issue where the CT could be a bridge to reconciliation with the club? Providing a separate additional opportunity to discuss issues with the CEO?

• What it is not. This proposal is not about what the original Resolution 12 was trying to achieve, i.e. SFA reform (encouraged by Peter Lawwell) but about how Celtic misled shareholders thereafter, as those shareholders persisted in asking questions that were never satisfactorily answered.

Auldheid

The original resolution had input from myself, described by David Low as a “dimwit snyder every bit as duplicitous as those he seeks to criticise”

This was then covered by The Celtic Star under an eye catching headline but where the author tried to cover the cause in a balanced way.

https://thecelticstar.com/the-celtic-family-at-war-a-dimwit-snider-every-bit-as-duplicitous-as-those-he-seeks-to-criticise-david-low-attacks-auldheid/

Best park until after the post game chatter, hopefully a win to go into the international break with. ,<======== or ignore I thought today was matchday. Duh

SFTB

Still looking for Superbru picks from Angel Gabriel, BGFC, BRTH, wee BGFC, and wee McCaff. I also see a few people have left out the score of the postponed Livi vs Hibs game. It is probably best to put in a provisional score now as you can change it nearer to the kick off date, if you wish. Your predictions can always be changed provided a) the match hasn’t started or b) you accidentally pressed the lock icon which fixes your score as unchangeable. I never use this option..

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

AULDHEID

I cannot believe that Low was low enough to say that about you even behind your back,but to make it public beggars belief! How did someone make his way in the business world-or even life in general-without the sense to keep thoughts like that to himself? Nothing wrong with thinking like that-even if on this occasion I obviously disagree with his views!-or even acting on those thoughts,but by making them public,he did himself no favours at all.

I put a lot of faith in Low’s own good faith,as did many of us,even though I had to hold my nose about it after reading an interview with him in January. You may remember I forwarded it to you. I still think that he could have been should have been an asset for the CST et al to take the fight to the board.

I wonder what happened along the way?

Auldheid

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
AULDHEID

I cannot believe that Low was low enough to say that about you even behind your back,but to make it public beggars belief! How did someone make his way in the business world-or even life in general-without the sense to keep thoughts like that to himself? Nothing wrong with thinking like that-even if on this occasion I obviously disagree with his views!-or even acting on those thoughts,but by making them public,he did himself no favours at all.

I put a lot of faith in Low’s own good faith,as did many of us,even though I had to hold my nose about it after reading an interview with him in January. You may remember I forwarded it to you. I still think that he could have been should have been an asset for the CST et al to take the fight to the board.

I wonder what happened along the way?
===============
Something duplicitous must have happened on his journey – or his own duplicity backfired.

Awe Naw

Auldheid,

Congratulations on exposing David Low for what he is. An uppity whore protecting his pimps.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

AWENAW

I wish I could find that article from January. It was intended as a hagiographic,no doubt,but he came across as a wrong ‘un.

Saltires en Sevilla

BMCUW

He was always a wrong ‘un

There there were many warnings posted on here- ad infinitum

No surprises

Awe Naw

BMCUWP

His only belief is self gain. Its good for Auldheid though and his indesputable reputation. One adheres to the principles of democracy the other thinks he knows better. Celtic fans take yer pick

A thing of beauty

Auldheid,
All of us disagree regularly on this site but it’s always done in the correct manner. For David Lowe to call you a snider and say you are duplicitous is so wide of the mark and reflects poorly on him. You keep your head up high. You could not have done any more and it’s always been on the interest of truth, not your own interest. Others could learn from you.

Rebus67

It is all about opinions, isn’t it? Debate adds to the fun of watching Celtic. There is never a shortage of issues to debate.

Here are my thoughts on Ange and where we are at. Much of it I have already posted in my earlier article on Ange Ball. Firstly, Ange is exactly where he expected to be in his tenure at Celtic. He is prepared to tolerate win percents as low as 40% in his first year at a club. At Yokohama and at Brisbane, he inherited clubs that were mediocre. In the J League, Yokohama were managed by a French coach, Mombaerts, who, in four seasons, did not lead them to anything better than 5th in the league. More critically, crowds were tailing off and we might assume that Nissan, being 80% owners of the club, decided to act. With Brisbane, he cleared out the old guard by releasing 4 players. He transferred out another 4. So he was no stranger to the type of mess he inherited at Celtic. There is a pattern to Ange’s management career. Year 1 build, get a prolific goal scorer. Year 2 win the league or come very close. Year 3 decline. In the J League, during his championship winning year, he had Nakagawa, who scored 15 goals in 33 games in the league. Nakagawa was the top scorer in the league that year, 2019. The following year, his performance slumped to 2 in 18 games. In 2020, Ange brought in Daizen Maeda to be the elite scorer that all of his teams need. At Celtic, it is, of course, Furahashi.

As Ange matured as a manager, he has adopted a definite style. I am not sure it is based on a particular formation, such as 4231 or 433, but rather on key actions. First amongst these is inverted FBs. Second is a consistent high press and third is playing the ball out from the back. To make this work, he needs high levels of fitness across the squad, but particularly for those involved in the press and the FBs. He also needs a prolific goal scorer. He has the goal machine and fitness levels are on a different level than under NL. His style is very close to one of Garry’s favourites, Bielsa, now at Leeds. We see a similar pattern in Bielsa’s career. He also varies formation but he has key actions similar to those of Ange. His win percents are not impressive either, 65% being the highest and that with the Argentina national team. At Leeds he sits on 50% and his team have had a poor start to the current season. Bielsa has often been accused of producing Bilsa Burnout in his teams. We saw this during his time at Athletico Bilbao and, now, perhaps, Leeds. I suspect the same thing applies to Ange’s methods. There will be a burnout and this explains why his successful seasons tend to be followed by a substantial dip. I predict we shall see the same pattern at Celtic.

On a personal level, fans tend to love Ange. He is a great ambassador for any club that has him. At the end of his career, this would be a great role for him. His PR work this season is exactly what Celtic needed at this point.

So, in short, if you look at Bielsa and Ange’s careers you will see what to expect during his time at Celtic.

Rebus

jimthetim53

My opinion of David Low after I joined the zoom meetings at the end of last year was that i was very unimpressed. Now? It’s at rock bottom. Thank god he is no longer chair of CST. Indeed it would be better if he left it altogether. He would be better suited to a post on the Celtic plc Board. He would fit right in there.

Awe Naw

Ange will stick with his philosophy like Rodgers did. Ange will have believed that if he is successful, that he will be rewarded and his squad will always be improved upon like Rodgers did. Ange will get dogs abuse from the following and eventually the PLC for being so unpragmatic with regards his playing philosophy when the pre contract signing promises are inevitably not being kept, like Rodges did. This is why his influence within the club outwith his playing philosophy is being kept to a minimum. See background staff. Ange is fully aware as his selection of Eduardo and Christie at Ibrox proved that the money for the plc is far more important than the glory. A fine balance has to be maintained between both to allow a healthy Old Firm basis. Any imbalance in our favour will be hawked to the EPL. EPL clubs need players that comprehend the philosophies of Guardiola and Klopp. That is where there is a killing to be made financially and why we are playing Angeball.

Craig76
BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

CRAIG76

It is a brave man who takes that job on. Newcastle probably need to go down in order to give themselves an opportunity to rebuild the entire structure of the club.

As for having £200m to spend? Everton spent around £500m in four years and went through five managers doing so. Eventually they hire Benitez-and give him the princely sum of £1.7m to spend in the summer. Although they do have a beautiful CGI representation of a new stadium too.

ASWGL

This is for jimthetim I know he likes the tifo.

7th November 2012, 9 years tomorrow since this incredible night.

HH

ASWGL,. 👍 I’ll never forget it. Messi loved the Tifo too.

Craig76

BMCUWP
I would like to think the majority of managers, would not touch them with a barge pole. Unfortunately morals go out the window when huge sums of money are involved

jimthetim53

Good snooker match on. John Higgins v Ronnie O’Sullivan. This is when I miss Garry. 🙁

Pitymevin

Aberdeen fans counting at throw inns and by kicks and even the ref is telling the motherwell players to get on with it after about 7 seconds.

ASWGL

M’well conned the ref into a fk, and go 2 up

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

PITYMENEVIN

Great idea,I hope it catches on. Goal kicks next!

Mike in Toronto

JtT

Crazy – but fun – last frame!

jimthetim53

Mike, I swear it could have gone either way! both had mistakes in them. A wee bit nervy I thought. But as you say fun at the end.

Chairbhoy

jimthetim53 @ 2:13 pm,

It occurred to me when David Low came on the scene he may have a hintergedanke…

The CST was looking to get a supporter on the Board – thought mibbees that could be his dream.

His sycophantic approach to the PLC BOARD and his resignation after the CST dropped their aim of getting a member on the Board – conflict of interest I think!?

Strengthened that belief. David Low seems to be running to his own agenda, disrupting the opposition to the PLC Board at this crucial time helps only the PLC.

For me this makes him dangerous.

Hail Hail

jimthetim53

Chairbhoy, certainly looks that way now.

Chairbhoy

Good leader…

Ange’s approach for me has several advantages, not least playing fitbaw the Glasgow Celtic way.

The players are getting to know the system and what’s required from them, if they are playing this week in and week out we will improve.

I agree with those who say if we play this way we need a very good defence and the defensive midfield role becomes huge.

That’s the most important thing at the moment, last window we went huge on a keeper, it has been key to our turnaround. January a central mid of similar stature is key.

We need Ange to be the purist he is, hope he sticks to it.

Hail Hail

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

A few coupons down today,folks. Well,mine at least!

fan

Man city today gave a masterclass in off the ball movement,
Reduced Man U to looking third rate.
They did it with and without the ball limiting Utd to one shot.
One thing noticeable when they did pass backwards they immediately had players making themselves available in forward areas,
When Utd got into last third City held position leaving them nowhere to go and the inevitable turnover.
The difference being one team is well coached and know their roles.

jimthetim53

I had a £1 treble on the home teams winning today in the Premiership. Packy told me they were certainties. I would have won £6+

That was my spending money for tonight. I’ll need to stay in now. 🙁

Sips

Mahe…
Let’s see what Anges style of football brings when he gets the players he wants, rather than what’s foisted upon him.
Must admit, although I was disappointed at the livi game I’m hopefull it’ll come good.

Watched Man City rip Man utd apart with the same approach Ange is trying to indoctrinate into our game. 🍀

Sol Kitts

Eddie Howe at the Amex to see Newcastle. If he sees how they’re playing he’ll do a runner, too much grief for him to deal with.

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