Serendipity

Morning,all.

I know you all appreciate the effort that we put in to writing the articles on here,and we certainly appreciate your own contribution. I can’t speak for MAHE,but I tend to dredge up a topic-usually Celtic-related,obviously!-and take it from there. While I try to fact-check as much as I can,I certainly don’t do anywhere near the amount of research for an article that SALTIRES does.

No doubt he will give us all an other example of what I mean tomorrow,and the 91-92 season is building up a head of steam on here!

Thanks,mate. You know how much we appreciate this,and I hope that is enough to keep you fingertapping away.

But yesterday gave us an example of serendipity,but you’ll need to bear with me for a bit!!!

For my plan for today’s article was to divert us away from Celtic for a brief moment,based on an article I read last week. Although there is a connection to the club-and obviously NOT in a good way!-it is about how quickly times change,how yesterday’s hit-maker finds himself in the bargain buckets.

Is there anyone in any doubt that for the first decade and more of this century that Jose Mourinho was one of the top coaches in the world? It would surely be difficult to argue that,given his achievements.

Of course,as Celtic supporters,we have our own reasons for our contempt. His playing up our physicality before Seville,aided by his fluent Spanish which got the local press onside and which may have been fed back to a Slovakian referee who was clearly influenced one way or another on the night.

Regardless,we all know,we all saw it. We were gamed out of it by eleven players and a manager clearly furious at being a couple of months late for the Oscar ceremony. So,NO,I won’t forgive that-but I’m talking about him as a manager.

As a manager,he has won more trophies than Billy McNeill did as a player. That takes some doing. After Seville,he took Porto to European Champions,then won Chelsea their first title in FIFTY years. Won the CL to complete the treble at Inter Milan,and even at Real Madrid,up against the best side I have ever seen-the Guardiola Barcelona-took the title there too.

And then came back to Chelsea to win the league again!

So is this a hagiography about a guy we are none too fond of,Mick?

You might ask,but it isn’t. He hasn’t lasted in a job for more than three years,and as his ego has ballooned,so his reputation-and length of tenure-has shrunk. Only his ego could have persuaded him to take on the job at Man Utd when he did,and the carcrash that resulted should have made him consider chucking it. And surely no-one needs the money that much that they consider working with Daniel Levy!

So off he jolly well trots to Roma,where the sun-drenched superstars jolly well trotted off to play some reindeer herders in The Arctic Circle. So well did this top boss do his homework that he sent his B-team. So far has this maestro fallen that he blamed THEM,fully and publicly,for a shocking 6-1 defeat!

Mourinho in his heyday would never have done that,the trick for him was to shield his players so that they ran through brick walls for him. Few would even run through a fire escape for him now.

And it is little more than he deserves,because over the years he has become louder as his achievements become muted. (Shrugs shoulders,and moves on…)

The connection here of course,the serendipity,is that we have been drawn against those very reindeer hunters-and I promise that the description is not my opinion of a clearly very talented side,but how I think Mourinho viewed them!-and in around ten weeks,we have to head to The Arctic Circle. We don’t have a tremendous record on artificial surfaces,and like most of us I think they should be banned.

But I think there is some slack to be cut here. It is difficult to grow grass there,and I recall us about 50 years ago playing in The European Cup in Cyprus on what was effectively a beach,because grass burnt away in their summers. It might well be one of the smallest stadia we have ever played in at this stage in Europe,but I’m not sure how many of us would want to be there anyway.

But the important question hasn’t yet come up!

Can we win it?

Well,I just told you that they beat Roma 6-1. But they are on a winter break,so no football,no match fitness. We will be a month back from ours,fit,refreshed and up for it.

We have every chance of winning,and also of winning a European trophy in front of a national President who will probably turn up in his Celtic strip. I’ll betcha our own chairman has never owned one.

+++++

Above article by BMCUWP

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CFC

We play the first leg at home, they will not have played a competitive game for two months.
If we cannot take a sufficient lead with the backing of a crowd 10 bigger than they are used to, then the old adage applies- we don’t deserve to be in the competition.

CFC

Previous comment should have read 10 times bigger, but I guess you knew that.

Bodo , despite winning and drawing with Roma finished second in the group behind them.
They would appear to be a dangerous opponent however, no losses in the group with three wins and three draws.

Craig76

If we sign anyone in January are they eligible to play against Bodo ?

big packy

FRODSHAM BHOY, just seen your post from last night, thanks very much for your kind offer, but everything is sorted now, we gave the keys back yesterday, so thats it very emotional day, when everything settles down im coming to frodsham to buy you a pint,or three, BTW do you know phil the owner of the four seasons chippy, good friend of mine,👍

Jobo Baldie

Good morning, friends. We have 12 competitive fixtures between now and our home leg against Bodo/Glimt. So, one game at a time and all that… 😉
Off at a tangent now but well done to SFTB on the ole Superbru thingmy. I see there was a detailed update right at the end of the last article. I like the idea of one of the final prizes going to the top scorer in any single week. That’s a good incentive for those of us languishing well down the table to keep trying our best each week! I might even need to revisit my decision to forecast Sevco getting beat every game they play…..

The Gombeen Man

Thanks BMCUWPS,

Does anyone know what Bodo’s resources are?

As I’ve heard it said in another context…

‘there’s a pals act going on at Celtic. Jobs for the boys.’

Big Packy,

Thanks for your reply at the weekend. I hope things are going okay?

All the best to Joan.

The Gombeen Man

The Fenian Whaler,

Thanks for your reply on Saturday, highlighting the life of Tom Meagher.
I’m familiar with Meagher’s life, his contribution and in particular with the circumstances of his death.
It’s not uncommon for those directly involved in the Struggle to have difficult lives after experiencing conflict.

John Boyle O’Reilly died in confused circumstances at the age of 46. The cause of death being ‘ an intentional medical overdose.’ Thomas D’Arcy McGee, a Founding Father of Canada was murdered. An Irishman called Whelan was convicted of his killing and was executed.
During the Civil War the Irish State executed 81 Republicans. That figure doesn’t include the many assasinations.
Mick Collins was assassinated by Republicans while still allegedly supplying weapons to Republicans in the North.

The men from the Catalpa Rescue were very damaged by their experiences. There was a near mutiny onboard The Catapala. In the US one of the escapees, James Wilson confronted, the leader of Clann Na Gael, John Devoy with a handgun. Wilson was forcibly disarmed.

No doubt today many of these people would be diagnosed with some form of PTSD. They’d witnessed horrific suffering during their formative years and the savagery of conflict. They’d also suffered at the hands of the legal system and the prisons.

The most recent Troubles highlight that too. Everyone suffers. Violence takes a long term toll, emotionally, psychologically and spiritually.

After the centuries of Westminster rule, Ireland was a wasteland.

Forestry is a good example. By the early 20th Century, Ireland was had the lowest forestry coverage of any country in Europe, below 1%.

The coverage had once been around 80%.

Apart from some natural loss, through climate change. The scorched-earth policies embarked upon since the Elizabethan era had destroyed the natural flora and fauna of the Island.

Irish Oaks were cut down to rebuild London after the Great Fire and build ships for the growing British Naval fleets.

Stately Homes on huge acreage were built and the the country and it’s people’s were changed forever.

This in part led, to the reliance on the potato and An Gorta Mór, with the arrival of Blight The Clearences and Penal Laws also made way for the Plantation of people.

Violence and abuse on this scale leaves an awful lot of damage that’s passed on through the generations.

A scorched-Island with many social, emotional and physical scars.

Conflict leads to factionalism and more conflict.

There are no winners. The consequences of violence are widespread. The victims aren’t merley the combatants their immediate famiies but also the generations to come.

Much like the forestry.

Ireland’s forestry coverage is now at 18%. A partial recovery from the savagery of 1%.

In a strange way that mirrors the slow recovery of what was left of the indigenous population and the millions of forced migrants.

Finding a way to acknowledge and heal the damage for the Irish at home and abroad is the priority.

The inevitable result of Conflict is more Conflict. That cycle breeds pain and misery.
Unfortunately, until the masses perceive these facts they’ll remain as canon fodder.

In Scotland, the Old Firm is part of the modern day manifestation of that cycle of conflict and manipulation.

TFW, I’m busy today. This was a hurried, delayed response.
I’ll come back later, if you reply.

Craig76

Jobo Baldie
You’ve got to ask yourself, could sleep at night if you picked Sevco to win 😀

Frodshambhoy

Morning BP glad everything is sorted now. I don’t know Phil. I’ve got a really fuzzy head this morning so even if I did know him I probably wouldn’t remember.
Would be good to meet up when you are in Frodsham if we can arrange it. I’m off to Brighton on Thursday to see the grandkids for a few days then need to go up to Clydebank next week to visit my mum so won’t be in Frodsham much before Christmas.

Saltires en Sevilla

Bobby

A fine read and thought-provoking. I really don’t know how you two guys do it every day to such a high standard. Huge thanks.

So glad you clarified it was Mourinho’s thinking on the probable occupations of our Norwegian opponents- not ours- that’s probably a fair assessment of his view of likely risks to Roma at the time.

I’d hate to think any Norwegian fans looking in think we are anything less than respectful of their culture and their teams/league. We are facing one very tough tie… although it could have been a lot worse.

Was talking to an Albanian waitress in Aviemore last week, and she knew her president liked football and Celtic.. when we reminded her .. to be fair she was really a basketball fan.

The Omen?

When we consider all the effort he put in evaluating Celtic in 2003 and his meticulous planning to win that trophy – warming up the Spanish Press and highlighting the physical nature of our squad ( he wasn’t wrong in that respect ) to influence the match officials etc. Coaching his players on how to feign injury. It just goes to show how easy it is for successful managers to forget the basics. Neglect the core principles of their success. You called all of that very well.

What was obvious that night was how much more skilful his team were compared to Celtic. My own view is that Martin’s biggest failing was his failure to employ a truly creative player on the night. The Portuguese manager outsmarted the Irish manager and we can moan forever about some of the tactics used – and I really abhor time wasting and feigning injury- unfortunately, it’s a huge part of the game.

Mourinho was the better manager and I’d be willing to bet he would have been reluctantly accepted at Celtic, then loved at Celtic – at least in his first two seasons. He would have taken that squad and added a few skilled craftsmen and won us a European trophy.

His fall from grace ( he will have at least one Swansong): ego or hubris, or maybe it’s just laziness, or perhaps he distracted by other things?

Maybe he can’t delegate properly… who knows?

I was surprised that he had won more trophies than Big Billy, but he has been winning for 20 years. Billy won his first cup in 1965 and last in1975. I suppose if we add in trophies Billy won as a player and manager, that might put them on a more equal footing.

Someone here will know the answer…

Meantime, I’m very happy to tap away on my keyboard of a Sunday morning, with a dive into the teams and results and events of yesteryear. I find1891/92 fascinating and recently discovered 1971/72 holds much promise – you will see more of that very soon.
As I say ( likeisay – Irvine Welsh) very happy to share those duties with a fellow Celt and helpful to see an alternative format to keep it fresh and interesting. There are no rigid rules and I have been sticking to decades 130/ 70/ 50/20 years ago but willing to pick out any favourite year on request.

HH

St tams

Another excellent article.
Well done Bobby

Saltires en Sevilla

TGM

Another fascinating read.

On the British plundering of Ireland and reducing an entire island, on its flank, to a physical and economic wilderness.

People

At the time of An Gorta Mór the respective populations (approx.):

England 16m
Ireland 8m
Scotland 2m

Ireland today now 1/10th of England

Scotland today has more than doubled

Ireland today just about back to 1850’s (6.9m)

Who benefits?

jimthetim53

Vote cast!

The Gombeen Man

SES,

Thanks,

“Who benefits?”

The same rogues will until we Wake Up.

Anyhow,

It’s ironic how the destruction of the natural environment was mirrored in the destruction of the people.

With the arrival of the spud via Walter Raleigh and the advances in agricultural. The land was cleared, rented back at exorbitant rents and the population increased.

Catholics and other Dissenters like Presbyterians were forbidden by law from education.

Hedge Schools were the way round that. It’s crazy to think of kids sitting in fields or caves learning Greek and Latin… Privately paid for of course.

Then came the Great Hunger. Further changes in the use of land and therefore evictions and starvation.

The ancient Gaelic or Celtic ‘alphabet’ was called Ogham and was based on trees. You’ll still find examples today.

The influence of forestry was profound.
It was the Spirit of the Gael.

https://www.wildernessireland.com/blog/the-native-trees-of-ireland/

https://www.treesforcities.org/stories/the-mysterious-ogham

big packy

AFTERNOON ALL and JIM, frodsham bhoy no problem👍 there have been some great posts today, BOBBY, TGM, SES,,cap doffed lads,👍,the gombeen man, thanks for your best wishes👍

jimthetim53

Packy, agreed, top quality article & posts. Interesting reading. 🙂

big packy

JIM, bad news you know when i said id pick you up from the larkhall true blues social club, and then on to dingwall i know you get a nosebleed when you get past stirling 😎 well the more i think about it,I know you said you would take yer sash aff, but you will still have yer rangers tap oan 😎

jimthetim53

Aye, the more I think about it I reckon I will give it a miss! 🙁

big packy

JIM, thats a good Idea😎😎

Saltires en Sevilla

Craig76
Get voting for Kyogo folks https://www.celticfc.com/news/2021/december/14/vote-for-kyogo-in-europa-league-goal-of-the-group-award/

—///—///—///

Done buddy

HH

Saltires en Sevilla

TGM

Great links on last – thanks

big packy

JIM, solkitts is picking me up in his private jet, its not what you know its who you know😎 but as lakrhall disnae huv an airport ye canny come, sorry aboot that😎

Saltires en Sevilla

Big Packy – thanks and great to see you back in form

You and JTT53 are fekin’ totally nuts

But please don’t stop – love it, and we all need a giggle lads.

HH

big packy

SALTIRES, its jim thats nuts not me,😎😎 another true story,😎

jimthetim53

I’ll have you know I got O’level woodwork at high school!
(I made a rolling pin on the lathe for my mother).

Saltires en Sevilla

Big Packy

Google Earth showing a Helicopter Pad there…a big green one near Asda…

But wait … some lads out spraying it another colour.

Aaaaaannnddd

The lazy Buggers never put a Wet Paint sign up… whit they like?!

big packy

JIM i got no level woodwork😎 my woodwork teacher mr o connell could hit the belt the hardest in the whole school, you would never have survived six of the best off him, 2 strokes and you could not feel your hands for hours,

big packy

SALTIRES, is that a true story😎😎

Mahe

Bobby, I like to think the blog has been a serendipitous discovery for it’s great posters 😉

We awoke to snow here, probably similar to those reindeer herders. Jose and Roma was never going to work, I think he should go to International management now.
Yes he was cutting edge around twenty to fifteen years ago but as happens gets pushed down the pecking order by newer more hungrier coaches. This kid Nagelsmann might just go on to be one of the greatest ever, he started very young and has a great philosophy. Unlike Jose he isn’t the star of the show, and focuses on the group developing a positive mental attitude.
He shall destroy our city neighbours to give us a close up look.
I recall a Jose player stating they were ordered to gather at least two yellow cards for time wasting , In the first half! I doubt the young German ever lowers himself to such low levels.

I think we smash the Norwegians and progress, this new Cup shouldn’t be spurned by rather wholeheartedly embraced and chased by second/third tier clubs such as ourselves.
Unfortunately I think our title rivals shall enjoy being free of Europe and having only the title to focus on,,,I believe Ange, the players, and the fans shall try very hard in Europe, which might give them an edge.

Thanks for your contribution everyone. Stay safe and stay warm.

Hail Hail

big packy

just cast my vote for kyogo there, and well deserved too.👍

Saltires en Sevilla

Packy

Aye …. sorry, it was a true story 🚁

big packy

SALTIRES, yes thought it was,😎

Very interesting doc.on PBS The Irish Famine…………talked to a couple of Irish guys and they didn’t realize what had gone on,we all thought it was a Catholic thing.

big packy

TIM, have you read the gombeen man and the fenian whalers posts on here about Ireland.,riveting stuff👍

Mahe

Cracking read today. Apart from being at the actual game in Seville, I have not saw any highlights of the game to this day…and never will. The emotions of that day are still too raw. As for Jose himself, it took me a good 10 years or so to forgive the man for his team’s conduct in Seville. I have always thought that if we still had Lubo on the books for the final, the result could have been different. I would have to say that it will take me a bit longer than a decade to forgive Lawwell et al their collaborating, thieving, cheating ways. Such is life.

Saltires/TGM/TFW

Some cracking stuff today lads. If you get the chance you should listen to the Christy Moore song/poem about An Gotrta Mor titled:

“On A Single Day”.

Quick quiz:How many teams beat the Celts in the 1966-67 season? I include ALL games played that season.

Hail Hail.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

MAGUA

ONE! And they beat us twice.

Lubo would have been perfect,but also 38yo. Maybe a year or two too late for him. Sadly.

jimthetim53

Magua, it was Bobby’s article today pal! LOL 🙂

Bobby, so which team was it?

Saltires en Sevilla

JTT53

The team Stevie Gee calls Dundee

jimthetim53

Dundee? Who’d a thunk it!

Saltires en Sevilla

Heard a BBC sportsedesk guy calling them Dundee at weekend

They canny help themselves and the pain runs deeper than we thought

Good 🎯

Saltires en Sevilla

JTT53

Aye the Harp version 🙂

jimthetim53

Utd. ?

Saltires en Sevilla

JTT53

Aye they won twice v Lions in league home and away that season buddy

jimthetim53

Cheers SeS, you’ve got to make allowances for me now. I’m 68 you know!

Saltires en Sevilla

JTT53

I thought you were 53 😀

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

Actually I think Vojvodina beat us too,plus one of their compatriots in a friendly.

MAGU did say ALL games. Maybe Red Star?

jimthetim53

SeS, my year of birth! 🙂
The queen was so overjoyed she decided to have a coronation!

ASWGL

Evening all, great leader Bobby and some top replies. Agree with SES you guys churn out good stuff on here, and everyone is thankful of that.

Mahe you used the word “shall” 3 times in your post, be careful or the grammar polis will call round hiding again on a VPN because he has no life, and fuck all else to do with his time, except troll good sites.

HH

ASWGL

bp my warmest regards to your good lady

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