In search of justice

In case you missed it our esteemed friend Auldheid managed to finally lay out his saga from start to date and it’s essential reading. While a lot is legal-ese, there’s also a lot of human exasperation and frustration evident as he was given the runaround, and not given any official backing but instead plenty of official duplicity.
 
The blog was ‘booked’ when it emerged, but it’s given me more time to think and digest, maybe you have also.
You don’t need me or him to sum up Res12, but even a blind man can see justice wasn’t served, it was deliberately sidestepped with squirrels and shrugs.
On this occasion justice was literally blind, our dogged bhoy was the opposite.
 
Many will have noticed the change in this sites focus,, the early years full of board slamming and it’s a rarity now that team has taken precedence.
The main reason is I got sick and tired of it, yelling all the time, repeating the same observations to the same folk maybe slightly differently each time but essentially the message was the same.
It was Rebus who pointed out he’s tired of reading anger and rage without real meaningful action being undertaken, and he was very correct. It is repetitive, and focusing on a negative subject constantly isn’t good for the soul.
So I was delighted to read there’s an avenue for some positive finality for Auldheid and the resolution.
A membership scheme started by the disillusioned, spurred on by Auldheid’s treatment and saga.
Lord knows it’s needed.
 
The game up north is showing no signs of righting itself, clinging to an irresponsible model with zero imagination from those at the top of the pyramid or the clubs.
How many times must suits of all sorts fail us before it’s incumbent to organize?
Like I say, I’m done with bitching. I know some have also reached that stage.
 
It’s never too early to begin some of the groundwork on forming this membership scheme.
I would be delighted to be involved and honoured if this site helped get this vision turned into reality. If other clubs supporters can manage it then we can also, fact.
 
A model we can copy would be fantastic, and if one of their more knowledgeable members can offer information or advice even better. I’m well aware listing what needs done would be a blog in itself but first and foremost a membership scheme needs members, and this must be a voluntary not forced venture so I’m certainly not just counting everyone in.
If you would or do intend to join up, then please express that fact, to gauge numbers if nothing else, but I do think encouragement would come from seeing different sites emerge as ‘ayes’.
 
Speaking of different sites, and also different groups and organizations, when the aim is this noble with a lot at stake, then all must come together for the common cause. There is no room for friction, the past is exactly that, everyone should consider themselves on the same side. I’ve witnessed infighting, subtle power struggles and realize it won’t be easy meeting the expectations of all the various strands of supporters.
But ,, if all acknowledged it must be done, this venture is indeed necessary, then I do have faith that unity under one umbrella can be achieved.
Especially when that body is fully open with its business and stands by it’s constitution fullstop.
 
The idea is public, the seed has been widely planted, now conversations at every level need to happen, and now some luck is needed so hopefully whatever is needed can be found within or by the Celtic community. Plenty of backing can’t hurt and of course a very rich and upset Tim wouldn’t harm the cause either, however I don’t believe every Membership Scheme out there was initially bankrolled by big money.
 
Where there’s a will there’s a way, and in general if the Celtic fans set their mind to something it tends to happen.
Post Higgins (smell ya later) there’s no other current distractions, and as this wouldn’t hurt the team at all (would some unity help the crowd?) there’s really no time like the present, so as to maybe have a voice when the next crisis emerges, and one will
 
If some step up to the plate with even half of Auldheid’s vigour then something special is about to happen.
He has our gratitude and respect.
Celtic PLC let him down, we can’t.
Let’s do this.

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A thing of beauty

I would definitely be interested in signing up to a membership scheme. I know that Mahe thinks it doesn’t require a big hitter but I disagree. It will need the backing of a unifying force, be that one person or a recognised group of people. It will also need financial backing to publicise it and I hope there are plans for this. I thought the trust could be a unifying force for the support but the issue around resolution 13 at the AGM puzzled me and put me off. That’s a shame because when I attended a couple of meetings there are some very intelligent people involved in the trust and I don’t just mean on the committee. Someone has to find a way of tapping into that business acumen and brains to get a membership scheme up and running.
It will also need foot soldiers willing to spend a season handing out leaflets prior to home games to let supporters know what the purpose of a membership scheme is. Again a big ask of people’s time but absolutely necessary as a huge percentage of supporters who attend matches have no idea what has gone on with the board and a lot don’t care either.
The question of tapping in to the overseas dormant supporter is also challenging. How do they get their news? Mostly through blogs, podcasts and Celtic TV. Can the people running the membership scheme get their views out on these platforms. I love this blog but it does not have the reach needed to drive this. Is it possible to connect with other longer standing blogs and get the message out on there?
As ever, lots of questions from me. I want this to be a success but it is important to have a coherent plan and not just more run thumping.

A thing of beauty

CBB,
Just read back from last night. We definitely agree about Starfelt as fo lost others. We all want him to succeed but he needs a different mindset playing for Celtic. Not sure he can find it.

Friesdorfer

Good Morning all. Yes for me on a Membership Scheme. How, and who are the difficult bits. Agree with ATOB that it needs a big hitter to front, someone like Willie Haughey – would he be interested, does anyone have an ‘in’ to him? And, foot soldiers, absolutely. Questions, questions…
HH

Seánniemc

Count me in…
Mammoth task though.
Let’s do this..
Best of luck. HH

St tams

It’s a definite yes from me.
How it is done is another question.
But I’m sure it can be.

As for Starfelt. From day one I’ve seen nothing to impress me. As I’ve said before, there are 2 better centre halves in Edinburgh, we could have got for a quarter of the price

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

MAHE

Well worth the wait,and the effort you put into it. I’d sign up for this,but it will be like herding cats. It requires serious organisation and considerable effort. If any attempt goes off half-cocked,it will only set us back further while strengthening the board’s position.

CFC

Celtic supporters are factionalised, like any widely drawn demographic, and not one homogeneous entity
Within these groups there are earnest agitators, gung -ho activists and a whole host of apathetic 90 minute Tims.
There are pockets of anti establishment outliers but like society as a whole mainstream thinking, self interest ideology and a huge element of economic/financial self satisfaction means calls for supporter unity on issues fall on the deaf ears of the comfortably numb.
The key is clear communication of the aims of the scheme.
What exactly is it about , why is it necessary and how in practical terms will it meet its objectives.

jimthetim53

I would join up.

Auldheid

Since raising the idea of a Membership Scheme and after a comment made about what some thought it would be I think the term Membership Service to be more apt.

It would be ran as a service to supporters to provide what kind of service they would like to have.

So that would need to be established first and a start could be made with those wishes being articulated here.

It could work on different levels as the Celtic support are diverse in what they want to see from better catering to using Company Law as a means of preventing the support being led by an unaccountable Board.

So Mahe, sorry to spring it on you, but can you replace “Scheme ” with Service. I think that might help folk get a better grip on what is being proposed.

If a service is good enough folk will pay for it.

One thing the Service must have above all is integrity because we cannot seek it if we do not have it.

On that score I’m uneasy about asking money for something that might fail and I will tell you why from Res12 experience.

As can be read from the narrative Lawwell gave encouragement to the idea of SFA reform and on that basis when Celtic pulled up the drawbridge in terms of taking the lead with the SFA, SFA requisitioners decided to go legal.

That cost £11,266 in legal fees and when the bills came in I had to find the money. £4,974.00 was raised by crowd funding via CQN and the balance came from 4 individual contributors who were persuaded to contribute because I and they and CQN followers thought the cause was good and just.

As readers of the narrative will observe that money was raised under false pretence, not mine of course, but I never again want to be in a position to support any venture that is not based on honesty. So when it comes to seeking money there must be a good basis for doing so.

I think it will need someone with professional business qualification to not only provide that business input as the Service would be a business, but also credibility as an honest broker amongst Timdom . I might have been unlucky but the number I lost trust in grew and grew as Res12 developed.

To that end the bread has already been cast on the waters and that job of finding the right person under which everything else can then happen would be for me be the first step.

The two Tim lawyers who helped with the Note Of Concern Resolution that the CST neutered have been asked to look at the idea as some law firm would be a beneficiary as advisers to supporters. Folk with a good network of business connection are another avenue and one is already sounding out.

That does not mean suggestions need be put on hold and I’ve already had some on the funding front to consider.

Finally I’ll do what I can to facilitate the creation of such a Service but I’d like to see if enough of the support will, to be frank, get off their keyboards to help make it happen. A great disappointment, and I can say this for the two CST members who worked on the Note of Concern Resolution also, is how restoring integrity to our game simply was not a priority for the CST or GB nor much of the support at large. Plenty written about it with no action as Rebus says, but Res12 failed because not enough folk think accountability and integrity matter.

Without it the Lawells, Johnson’s and Trumps of this world flourish at our expense.

Auldheid

A link to the Res12 narrative which ended with a suggestion for a Membership Service was posted here earlier this week but here is is the link again.

https://philmacgiollabhain.ie/2022/01/04/an-opportunity-for-michael-nicholson-to-have-a-fresh-start/#more-23174

It was framed as an opportunity to the new CEO s Michael Nicholson to bring about change but on the Story itself here is the introduction.

Resolution 12: A Story of Duplicity from Cradle to Grave.

Introduction.

There is an old saying that goes “If I kent then wit I ken noo” that I would like readers of the narrative below to bear in mind as they read. Resolution 12 turned out to be like peeling an onion – tear filled. A narrative is based on the meanings we give to events and the more information gleaned the more accurate the narrative is likely to be. This narrative is supported by documentation and whilst there may be unknowns, let’s not go Rumsfeld.

I am grateful to Phil MacGiolla Bhain for his help in forming the narrative over the years as someone who found himself involved from the time the decision was taken in November 2013 before the Celtic AGM to adjourn Resolution 12.

That thanks is also extended to the other requistioners who took the fight as far as they could and also to those bloggers who decided to keep focus on the issue all the way. We all know who they are and aren’t.

Resolution 12 as it unfolded took on different meanings for readers about its motivation. The most pervasive that it was just a witch hunt against Rangers by a small group of vindictive Celtic shareholders. A narrative the mainstream media were happy to spread, and Phil was content to counter by doing the work they wouldn’t.

As will be seen from the narrative that follows the issue was not about the behaviour of Rangers in 2011. It shows that Resolution 12 was about SFA governance and SFA Reform, an idea encouraged following a conversation with then CEO Peter Lawwell May 2013 which became Resolution 12.

It has since 2018 morphed into questioning the governance of Celtic that has left some/many supporters angry and disaffected, but also disappointed that a club based on a tradition of doing the right thing had forgotten its roots., what made it better than all the rest.

There was also another motivation at play which was accountability.

In a world suffering from its loss Resolution 12 has sought accountability every year since the 2014 Celtic AGM. Its very pursuit in face of mounting resistance has sought accountability through resolutions or statements placed at the Celtic AGMs on behalf of a group of over one hundred shareholders who think that integrity in all its forms, sporting or life in general, matters.

Accountability matters in government at all levels. We are witnessing the consequences of the flight from accountability and integrity in our everyday lives, not only as Celtic supporters but citizens.

Sadly, Resolution Road as a mean of accountability via AGMs has come to an end for the reasons given in the narrative.

Since the restoration of real values will only come as result of the painful consequences of their absence, the narrative ends (and I hope you will read to the end) with a suggestion how Celtic supporters individually can gather around common ground to make the restoration of integrity, accountability and honesty start to happen in the lifetime of those who remember a time when Celtic as a matter of principle stood for what was right.

What happens next is down to every Celtic supporter from top to bottom whatever their age, to decide what direction of travel they wish Celtic to take. Into the light or further into the dark.

Auldheid 3 Jan 2022.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

AULDHEID

The more I read about this,the more I think that hanging is too bloody good for some people.

The Fenian Whaler

A ‘Membership Service’🤔 For me accountability would need to start with those ‘chosen’ to front such a scheme. There should be no taint of previous association with the current Celtic PLC, I am sure some would say any previous Celtic board. It needs a modern patron of Celtic, a Michael Davitt figure if you will, someone who the entire spectrum of support will respect and trust. A constitution, or such, highlighting ‘one member one vote’ and unequivocal assurances that those selected/elected to positions of authority within the service can not act without the expressed wishes of the majority of members 1st being sought is an absolute must.
In principle, it’s a great idea and one I would be willing to join but as someone pointed out given the heterogenous nature of the Celtic support it may be easier trying to pick up spilled mercury than attempting to get us to agree on anything let alone form an alliance.

Go n-éirí leat!

PS is business acumen in the ‘service’ really needed – after all, it’s business acumen that has given us the multibillionaire DD, our PLC and the miraculous resurrection of the Old firm. Ethical businessmen – sure they must exist somewhere😁🙄

craig76
Auldheid

The Fenian Whaler

Business acumen allied with integrity, something alien to The Board. The concept is one of service to the Celtic supporters from the Celtic support itself, totally independent of Celtic. No cosy chats over tea and biscuits, business done in a respectful business like manner.

Part of the plan is a method for gathering opinion via social media. It might surprise folk that when they come out of their ” no one speaks for me” silo that in fact whilst others are not speaking for them, they actually hold the same view. You see that here on SC.

A purpose and constitution would have to be drawn up to provide safeguards against misuse.

Malmo FC have a one member one vote system but there night be other models. The thing is to start thinking about it.

Auldheid

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
AULDHEID

The more I read about this,the more I think that hanging is too bloody good for some people.
===================
Its an eye opener isn’t it?

Gordon64

Where do i sign up ? 👍 Although minded of the great Groucho Marx quote ‘I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member’ 😜

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

AULDHEID

If you recall our interchanges and correspondence from some way back,it shouldn’t be. But even I am appalled at how disgracefully the board have acted over this entire unsavoury episode.

The Gombeen Man

“Celtic supporters are factionalised.”

Is there anything that unites all ‘Celtic supporters’?

The only potential unifying aspect of Celtic is the performance of the team.

Set the Club an Objective…

Say, a European Trophy within five years??

If we sideline everything else;

Res 12/13
SFA Reform,
Politics, Irish, Scottish and British,
Religion,
Blaming Huns, Refs and whoever else.

Leave only room for the performance on the Park and the efforts of the PLC to support that performance.

A total focus on the Coaching set-up. Player Transfers, Budgets, Sports Science, Tactics.

No more lame acceptance of shower room appointments. Or starting the Season with half a team. No acceptance of lack of preparation for CL Qualifiers.

Watch the reaction if the support asked questions about the lack of professionalism with one voice and a common, non-negotiable, goal for the PLC.

Concentrate on the here and now of the football.

The one thing that unites. Make Celtic Blogs the most relevant, professional out there. A little bit of nostalgia but don’t become a turgid mausoleum of the past.

Don’t accept the misleading diversons like the blame culture. Less of the half-baked conditioned drivel but evidence based facts.

Auldheid’s diligence has brought us here.

That doesn’t mean Blogs become tedious fanzines. But adapt the forensic skills, developed over the last decade or so, to become the cutting edge of football analysis.

Unite around football excellence and sideline all other distractions. Speak to other Blogs, get them onboard.

It’s the key area where it’s possible to track underperformance.

The objective should be to make Celtic Football Club a model of excellence. Measurable by identified objectives…related to football.

A professional approach to researched analysis of the performance of the Football Operations at the Club.

Focus on what Celtic PLC control.

Quit squabbling about SFA/SPFL, Sevco, the MSSM, SNP/Labour, Ireland, pies or Bovril. Waiting Lists, Car Parking, Rebel Songs, Glasgow Council, the Middle East etc.

As important as they are, they all divide the Support.

If supporters want to engage with Causes, that’s up to them…Take it to the relevant organisation, within or outwith the Celtic Support.

It’s their business.

Keep focussed on the one thing that unites…Football results.

Keep returning the attention to the main responsibility of the PLC. The performance of Football Operations, as supported by evidence.

Anything else dilutes effectiveness.

Involve anyone interested in the performance on the pitch and interested in the modern game.

Set an objective and benchmark the performance of the CEO and his team?

Become less susceptible to the exploitation of emotional attachments and play the PLC at their own game. Make them earn their corn. Demand results against specific objectives.

Question and scrutinise them – don’t accept nonsense and waffle.

A European Trophy within five years??

If winning the European Conference within five years is totally out beyond us, we’re wasting our time.

Set the Agenda. Have the support set the PLC’S goals.

Surely it’s worth a go?

Random thoughts.

craig76

Pass to Paradise showing Celtic B team game tomorrow
https://twitter.com/CelticFC/status/1479090047064453126

Craig76

For those on the East Coast Celtic FC Women are playing at Tranent if you need your fix of the Hoops
Celtic FC Women (@CelticFCWomen) Tweeted: ℹ️ Scottish Cup third round details have dropped! 🏆

📅 Sunday 9 January
🏟 Foresters Park, Tranent
🕝 2:30pm
🎟 Adults £5, concessions £3, U12s free with paying adult

Let’s start 2022 off on a high note🆕

#ScottishWomensCup | #EDICEL | #COYGIG https://t.co/ujBWSGX67T https://twitter.com/CelticFCWomen/status/1478297651523121153?s=20

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

CRAIG76

That should be right up PRESTONPANSBHOY’s street. Almost literally.

Craig76

BMCUWP
I was thinking that aswell right on his doorstep

Gordon64

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59001257
Located in the streets of Vallecas, one of Madrid’s poorer suburbs and the name of Rayo’s stadium, the club has stubbornly fought off modernity to retain a strong sense of identity far removed from the glitz and glamour of Real Madrid in the smart Chamartin district to the north of the city centre.

Robbie Dunne wrote a book on Rayo with the self-explanatory title ‘Working Class Heroes’, and he told BBC Sport: “Vallecas is working class to the core, and Rayo is the last of the neighbourhood teams. There is an authentic feeling to everything, from the guys serving beer to the fans on the streets and the vendors inside the stadium.”

A significant part of that ‘authentic feeling’ derives from a strong Latino influence. More than 400,000 South Americans live in Madrid, including 60,000 Colombians. Many of them have found their new homes in cheap-rent districts such as Vallecas, which goes a long way towards explaining why Falcao is not an ordinary signing at an ordinary club.

Rebus67

Quite startling to see my name mentioned in the lead article, pleasing as well! I must pay more attention to what I say!

Would I support a Membership Service/Scheme? Frankly, I do not know. Mibbee Yes, mibbee No.

It seems we have got problem solving and problem definition mixed up. First define the problem or objective, then think about the mechanism to solve it. The proposed Service is a solution mechanism, not a problem. So we currently have a solution looking for a problem!

Others have said the same, only more elegantly than I.

If this thing is to work, the starting point is a clear objective. Achieve that objective and then grow from there. Select something that is low hanging fruit and thus achievable. Vague objectives like integrity, honesty, while desirable, are too general and will mean different things to different people….a sure recipe for disaster.

This is just a personal opinion but I would suggest that whatever objective is selected, it should be removed from Res12 and variants. I do not say this to disparage Auldheid and the others involved, but the service should be a fresh start.

Would I be prepared to be a footsoldier on this? Again, I do not know because it is all too vague at this point. I am certainly looking for a cause but I am leaning towards bigger social issues than Celtic fc…….such as child abuse.

Sorry to be less than encouraging on an idea that deserves further thought.

Rebus

Gordon64

Some quality posts today HH 👏

Michael Thomas

Count me in Thanks’ again Res 12 guys

Auldheid

Rebus

The idea of a Membership Service came as a result of there being a problem.

Part of which is lack of good and honest communication and the Service idea tries to address that.

It was added to the Res12 Narrative because it was so depressing there had to be a better way.

I’ve set the idea running and folk thinking about it.

I’m well acquainted with the methodology needed, as are yourself, although I’m a bit rusty.

The story of Res 12 was my closure on it but that might not have come over as much as I intended, but for the avoidance of doubt it is not about Rangers or events in 2011, it is about using the lessons from it to try and stop a repeat that fills blogs with never ending chatter with no one prepared to address the reasons for discontent.

I do agree with you there are much more important matters to pursue but accountability and integrity might be a nebulous concept but I think trying to restore them are worthwhile and accountability was one of the reasons I got involved thinking the AGM and resolutions was the way to go. The lack of integrity put a stop to that so an alternative is needed or we carry on with chatter.

craig76

Gordon64

FT Newcastle Utd 0 Cambridge Utd 1 🤔
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/football/59923702

Gordon64

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/police-called-to-anti-lockdown-protest-in-glasgow-city-centre 😷 Someone should have told them to wear red, white and blue 🤔

Rebus67

Auldheid,

Your dedication is beyond reproach.

I agree there is a communication issue between the club and the fans. In part, this is contributing to the negative feelings towards the Board. The club is supposed to have a fan liaison officer. A starting point could be a meeting between him and a few interested fans to see how communication could be improved. If that fails then a fan based initiative is the only way forward. But we are still left with the lack of clear objectives for this initiative. Improving communication is too vague. At the moment, Ange is the mouthpiece for the club and is doing a good job.

Rebus

Gordon64

Dortmund outplayed by Awe Naw’s Frankfurt Eagles in first 45 mins 2-0 🙈

McCaff

Afternoon all. For this proposal to make headway there requires to be a general acceptance that something is seriously wrong and needs righted. At present I doubt there are sufficient numbers of supporters who are either aware of the issues being regularly discussed on sites such as this one or who care enough to get involved. The CST has shown that even with a reasonable number of engaged individuals any kind of progress is extremely difficult to achieve. A few months ago I toyed with the idea of joining the CST, I did make a couple of small donations to be included in their Zoom calls, but was sufficiently unimpressed so as not to pursue it. For me in Jeanette Findlay the CST has a great person happy to fight on behalf of marginalised groups of Celtic supporters but I’m not convinced she’s got the willpower or backing to take on this much more fundamental pursuit. And that is exactly what it is – fundamental. A requirement by our apathetic, belligerent PLC to return to our basic ‘Celtic Family’ ethos. Jeanette is the highest profile personality of our Supporters’ groups at present but nowhere near the calibre or public persona required to head up such an initiative. Some have mentioned Willie Haughey. Haughey is in with the bricks at CP. An ex Director from Fergus’ day after a £1m investment if my memory serves me. Do you think this initiative would be something that he would be interested in, more accountable practices from the Board from one of the richest men in Scotland, perhaps the UK? He’s a genuine philanthropic character but what would be required of him to front a Supporters’ Revolution? So not Haughey then, who next? Nobody springs to mind immediately who has the ability to traverse the various groups in the fight. Then we look at Celtic personalities, ex players, celebrity supporters. Does anyone spring to mind that would be intelligent enough, willing to give of their time – probably over a long period of time? It’s a blank from me.
This is so negative, and I am honestly apologetic about it but this will be so difficult to even get off the ground.
The only way really was to challenge the PLC. Auldheid and his cohorts showed exceptional diligence, courage and patience to challenge the PLC and all our hopes were invested in them. But the PLC, ultimately and disappointingly with no little help from the CST, danced around them until the fight was taken out of the Resolutioners.
I’m with Rebus on this. I’m not sure how to proceed. I’m not sure it’s a fight that’s winnable. Desmond is a shrewd operator, in the same way Ashley was with Newcastle and Sevco. These guys are steps ahead of every move and if they’re not they make sure they’re covered anyway. I’m not sure willpower is enough to make DD reconsider how to run CFC. He’s a megalomaniac, an autocrat who’s diktats are followed without question.
The plan to go forward has to be good, in fact it has to be flawless. Then it has to be supported ethically and financially by many, many people, then DD has to be challenged head on and encouraged to rethink his business style to a more moral approach. I can see a few hiccups on the horizon.
Again, apologies for the tone!

Mahe

Mackers,
Briefly,
On the ‘persona’ front, I reckon there’s a good amount of names out there all would agree on.
But I think you’re wide of the mark,,it’s the committee should be made of popular trustworthy names and not one central name vital to all. As pointed out earlier all decisions by committee only.

.” Does anyone spring to mind that would be intelligent enough, willing to give of their time”
We hire, it’s a full-time job. There’s a ton of intelligent Tims, but it needn’t be limited to team allegiance.

I’m saying no more for I’m going to lay out some ideas on Monday.

Hail Hail

McCaff

Accepted at face value, Mahe.
CST has Jeanette and had the guy who bought up Fergus’ shares for him. Unfortunately he and they turned out less trustworthy than we thought! For the record I think Jeanette Findlay is an honourable and trustworthy individual.
I apologise again for the cynicism but the size of the task needs to be appreciated. There is no simple solution to any question that will be asked.

McCaff

Also Mahe, and I appreciate you don’t want to get involved at the mo, the proposal surely was One Member One Vote… decision making by Committee hasn’t been proposed I don’t think!

Friesdorfer

The Gombeen Mhan 3.44pm
I think your suggestion has a great deal of merit: focus on a football-related Objective, define it, time-limit it, publicise it and then hold those concerned accountable. We need to shift the ground, and aim to get a broad consensus of the support to buy in. Still needs a ‘leader’ though, imho.
HH

Mahe

Mackers,
Re Committee some thoughts.

There must be one to get things off the ground I reckon. Just for talk sake , say seven high profile fans were granted the initial seats on the committee, each would bring not only a degree of trust but aid in membership numbers by merely being involved, and that’s times seven.
The initial committee should kickstart the venture.

Now you say where’s one man one vote, and you’re correct, however some things require that, but others don’t.
For starters the constitution needs to be drawn up to lay out what ‘we’ are and what ‘were’ about. I don’t think that needs voted upon initially, but changes could be voted in later.

Let’s say in order to raise funds some unique tshirts are commissioned then sold at a mark up. That doesn’t require a members vote. It would require the entire committees signatures on the initial payment cheque as a security precaution.
Printing leaflets to hand out at games surely needn’t be voted upon, it should be accepted that a percentage of funds go towards increasing awareness and membership with a breakdown of what the funds bought freely available.
The day to day chores don’t need voted upon.
If hiring an employee, it doesn’t need to be voted upon, that’s the responsibility of the committee.

I envisage only big expenditure, committee members and constitution changes to need ratifying by members vote in all honesty.

Hail Hail

Auldheid

Rebus67
Auldheid,

Your dedication is beyond reproach.

I agree there is a communication issue between the club and the fans. In part, this is contributing to the negative feelings towards the Board. The club is supposed to have a fan liaison officer. A starting point could be a meeting between him and a few interested fans to see how communication could be improved. If that fails then a fan based initiative is the only way forward. But we are still left with the lack of clear objectives for this initiative. Improving communication is too vague. At the moment, Ange is the mouthpiece for the club and is doing a good job.

Rebus
===============
I know its too vague but the process has not even got underway and that will costs more than few bob to move it from a concept to a product. That start up money would best come from someone prepared to bankroll the cost where all the risks need identified and they invest knowingly, than crowd funding.

Pragmatically it would be easier to come up with an agreed purpose of the service that would make it an attractive business proposition to put to the support using an agency to do the soundings, than seeking the start up money from the support as a whole based on what comes across from social media in fragments.

I met with John Paul Taylor, a good guy, after he was appointed in 2013 as a result of a proposed Membership Scheme from me to DD run by Celtic that would improve communications. He looked at various options, I had my ideas based on the Celtic Focus Forum model that used social media to identify and take forward issues. https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1uTbC5m713b3vkmiiH4cM4YMlaRpHUFgsttXYOsLbdOM/edit?usp=sharing

John Paul settled for the Fans Forum which was better than nothing, but did not allow real engagement on policy issues although helpful in dealing with complaints like ticket allocations. The CST had their own initiative and worked to reach an agreement based on a Resolution they tabled at an AGM but when the Fans Forum was announced they withdrew support. This did not surprise me as I felt the Fans Forum fell short of what was needed with Celtic ultimately controlling the agenda.

The point here is the last thing The Celtic Board, The SFA and the SPFL want is to be accountable to supporters, so any initiative that brings supporters together will be resisted, so a Membership Service should be one of independent opposition at the outset but once recognised as worth listening to and consequences if not, it might lead to a more collaborative arrangement once trust is restored on both sides.

The CST by its very nature does not represent the support as a whole hence after 10 years has around 1000 members. A Membership Service should be capable of attracting much more than that if it pursued issues that are a reason for discontent out side of football performance, being in bed with our main rivals being one, allowing the media to mislead supporters another, expecting us to swallow the same club myth and 55 titles yet another.

Insulting our intelligence being a catch all.

Mahe

Fries,
Needs either 5 or 7 leaders at the start but theyre are out there. (A committee should be odd numbers to avoid tied decisions)
Hail Hail

Gordon64

Superb second half comeback by Dortmund to win 3-2

Auldheid

McCaff

Depressed is how I felt having set out the Res12 narrative and I would not dispute any of the difficulties you state, so I well understand your tone.

It will be difficult but not impossible if enough feel things have to change, but just as in wayward Government under Johnson, it is the law and lawyers that are leading on accountability, I think what would get Celtic’s attention is the support taking them to court with good reasons to do so, that would become public and I can tell you that the original Resolution for the 2020 AGM contained information that Celtic did not want going into the public domain so they negotiated.

At last AGM based on the information in the Recital that gave reason for shareholders to be concerned that was dropped by CST, legal opinion was that taking Celtic/Lawwell to court for the totally untruthful response on knowledge of the 5WA and his and Bankier’s less than truthful response to justify voting against Res12 of the 2019 AGM would be costly with no guarantee a judge would find he/they had deliberately lied.

Had a legal fund existed or I’d won the lottery I would have said go for it. Not only do clubs fear accountability, they fear transparency more because it makes them accountable. No more secret agreements if they cannot be kept secret.

There is a bigger battle going on globally here, the Celtic case is just a smaller reflection of what happens when transparency and accountability are absent, there is no need to act with integrity.

Gordon64

Auldheid ‘There is a bigger battle going on globally here, the Celtic case is just a smaller reflection of what happens when transparency and accountability are absent, there is no need to act with integrity’. 👍
As being evidenced by the UK Govt and establishment who CGAF about honesty and integrity HH

Auldheid

The Gombeen Man

I agree that there should be a link to football outcomes but they would have to be set as desirable from the supporters as opposed to dictated by them as targets. That should lead to a dialogue with the Board that sets a realistic target.

Other issues, as you point out, Celtic have been lazy on
a) failure to prepare for CL qualification – which Ange seems to be addressing – but in furtherance of that Celtic should be leading a debate for summer football as that would
b)enhance qualifying chances by going into games match fit with players not introduced to each other in the tunnel and
c) have games to sell to TV when EPL closed.

craig76
Craig76
The Gombeen Man

Friesdorfer,

Precisely.

Find a cheap, easy way to put the focus on the PLC.

Don’t try and fix everything.

Keep it simple.

Just concentrate on what everyone is interested in…Celtic winning.

That’ll highlight how bad things are and will lead to dissatisfaction.

By adopting benchmarks based on strategic football development, every area is covered.

Make the Board accountable to the support for specific goals, based mainly on Europe.

By giving the PLC goals, show the mainstream supporter how much they’re being shortchanged.

That also means, change in Celtic’s approach to the SPFL/SFA .

Otherwise we’ve a talking shop to massage Ego’s. You’ll get stuck in Standing Orders, Resolutions, Committees and costs etc.

The SLO route is another conduit like the CSA and CST. Designed to frustrate, dither and maintain the yoke of Old Firmisim/ underperformance.

Have SMART* goals. Benchmarked on football.

Supporters need to collectively decide what’s an acceptable level of return on their annual investment.

If you keep coughing up every year. Expect to be treated with disdain, if you’re not prepared to challenge unacceptable performance.

Otherwise Blogs become pointless fanzines.

*Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic,Timebound.

Rebus67

Sol Kitts,

I have a question for you re refereeing. I just watched Wycombe vs Sunderland which ended 3-3. I think there were problems involving physicality for at least two goals. Sunderland scored first through their big centre Stewart. It looked like he climbed and pushed off of the W centre back. Surely illegal?

Secondly, Wycombe scored by having three players block the S goalie so he could neither jump nor move towards the ball. As a result W had a free header on goal. Again, illegal in my book.

Is there a different expectation re physicality in League 1 vs the EPL? I know the rules are the rules but are they interpreted differently across the leagues?

Rebus

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