Les Miserables-Part One

Morning,all.

Today’s title certainly does not refer to the average Celtic supporter’s opinion of the transfer window so far. About a third of the way through it,and I’m considering taking my shoes and socks off just to count our new signings. Changed days indeed from only a year ago,and the nearly two decades hence. 

I’ll say again that DMcK impressed me greatly with his support of our new manager. His departure was a blow-but in Michael Nicholson as his replacement,we seem to have unwittingly unearthed a man who knows how to defer to football people where football is concerned,and who knows how to get deals over the line very quickly indeed,and without other parties feeling that their nose is out of joint. 

MAHE said the other day-to paraphrase-that he was fed up just carping from the sidelines,fed up with the perception that our site never gives credit where it is due. All of that is wrong,of course. No-one is happier than me to dole out praise when it is due,for the simple reason that all of us are seeing the benefits of a good decision when that happens. Sadly they have been few and far between for far too long,and while the current goodwill to the board-or MN,to be precise-is both genuine and deserved,the word SENTINEL is in our name for a reason.  

We WILL be watching,and we will warn others when we smell a rat. But above all,we will be supportive and complimentary towards everyone involved in rebuilding the shambles left from last season. We must not judge people like Michael Nicholson by the perceived (!) sins of his predecessor of almost two decades. He deserves to be judged on his own achievements in his new position,starting with a clean sheet. 

But that clean sheet already has a lot of dirty big ticks in a lot of boxes,and while I haven’t quite given up my membership to The Mineshafters and Grousing Club just yet,I like to think that the club are finally moving in a direction with which most of the fans can identify. 

However,Les Miserables-Part Two is soon to follow. And there maybe just might be a fly in the ointment,based on recent experiences. But I hope it is a maybe,a just might. Because with AP at the helm,I reckon everyone has bought into the project. And for once,that seems to include the moneymen. 

~~~~~~
Above article by BMCUWP

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Prestonpans bhoys

Very good sentence Bobby;

‘Sadly they have been few and far between for far too long,and while the current goodwill to the board-or MN,to be precise-is both genuine and deserved,the word SENTINEL is in our name for a reason. ‘

Friesdorfer

Early days for MN so far Bobby. Encouraging as it is, it is never far from my mind his role in the shenanigans of the last several years as bagman to PL. I will, however, give him the benefit of my major doubt(s) for the time being. He certainly seems to be supportive of Ange on the transfer front, and that is all to the good. Let’s see how we go.
HH

Colour Blind Bhoy

Evening all, my usual late arrival to the site to catch up on the day’s posts.
First of all belated special birthday wishes to Prestonpans bhoys and I hope you’ve all had a lovely day in Windermere.
BMCUW, agreed re being impressed with the first third of the transfer window, at this rate it will be a tough shift doing a review of the new arrivals come the end of the season.
Lots of excellent reading over the weekend, I’ve not commented but I’ve learned lots from the various posts and especially where opinions differ as that encourages good quality debate.
Looking forward to an announcement soon to confirm (I hope) that we can make our way back to the football and I can’t wait to get back in next Monday to see how Ange sets us up with the new arrivals at his disposal.

CFC

We know for a fact Ange was not happy with the way business was conducted during the summer window.
Was DMcK partly/ wholly to blame?
He left in early September, just after the window closed.

I have nothing against DMcK, but one wonders if the two events are connected.

Friesdorfer

I do not agree that we “know for a fact” that Ange was unhappy with the transfer dealings during the summer window? It seems to me that this is an opinion rather than a fact – in my opinion, of course. I detect in all of Ange’s press conferences, interviews etc that he is delighted with things Celtic so far. However, it is probably true to say that improvements can and should be made to progress even further to a level which we all undoubtedly aspire to reach.
HH

Jobo Baldie

Good morning, friends.
Great articles and comments over the last few days and now eagerly awaiting the resumption of our league season. Celtic v Hibs in 6 sleeps time and Aberdeen v Triggers Broom FC the following evening. Bring it on!

St tams

As much as I’m pleased as everyone else regarding the quantity of our signings this early in the transfer window. We really don’t know about the quality yet. So let’s wait and see.
Something else that is evident. Is that there is no real sign of any scouting network.
It’s as if Ange is doing all the scouting on his own.

Maestro Fan

Lawwell and Ange would not have tolerated each other. The fat cat demanded a weak manager. Hence Mowbray, Deila and his die in a ditch defence of yes man Lennon.

Auldheid

CFC

My understanding is McKay did something that would indicate he was unhappy with the role he was trying to play.

Put it this way. What evidence do you have to speculate McKay was a problem and what evidence do you have to indicate the people he was working to were the problem?

Why at the end of the day would no one of recognised CEO stature be prepared to take the job that an internal employee who had worked with the Board was asked to take on,?

He did so reluctantly for safety reasons I understand, but perhaps seeking the freedom he never had under his predecessor.

MN owes us big time and perhaps deep down he knows that and is paying us back as he is best able to?

Speculation on my part but based on dealings with MN the person.

CFC

“That’s why the summer transfer window, for me, was way too chaotic, but understandably so because of the situation I was put into.”

A quote attributed to Ange. Don’t have time to find any others at the moment

I simply asked a question re DMcK’s involvement in the “chaos”.
I have no insight whether he was good, bad or indifferent in his role. Simply an opinion like yours.

This is a blog where opinions are expressed.
It helps the debate of all things Celtic.

Friesdorfer

CFC 👍🍀

Auldheid

CFC

McKay’s departure would most likely contribute to the chaos as in no one to fill the gap once Howe turned down the job, a major chaos contributing factor but did he play any part in the Howe saga?

The chaos was created by bad management under Lawwell, the guys coming in had to deal with the consequences in chaotic conditions.

No one is trying to stop opinions being aired and in asking the question you started the debate. I was responding based on chats with folk nearer the core although even there I dont know for sure the story is correct with no evidence to back it up.

Rumsfeld’s unknowns.

Chairbhoy

What a great read catching up with Sentinel Celts.

Another great initiative from Auldheid and some fantastic and thoughtful debate.

It is good we are having a long good think about things before any “service” is launched.

To get the Celtic Support to come as one for change when among the majority a circumspect shrug of the shoulders is all that greeted the loss of ten in a row and our team of invincible treble winners being reduced to players with the shrink to fit jerseys.

My feelings are that those that want the membership service to keep to simple agendas and yet are visionary are on the right track.

What does that look like? Well that’s the cruix of the matter.

Yet the “Football Club” is the be all and end all.

So the vision would be around what does the elite Celtic Club look like and a “think tank” to put that into practical proposals that can make that happen. Concentrating on some clear and achievable goals.

I’d say the stadium, it’s facilities and environs, Barrowfield, Lennoxtown Town as first rate centres of excellence, each containing and producing players, coaches, strategists, sports science and of course managers that ouze professionalism.

Of course that sounds a bit scatter gun but it doesn’t have to be – a great Celtic Park experience, with a great first team and an academy of excellence and Centres with an image that is presented as one and built on excellence and professionalism.

We know what it looks like, professionalism is the difference between Ange’s persona and Lenny’s.

It can be and is that simple. A job for a professional whether up and coming or seasoned, rather than a job for a mate.

We can keep the Celtic ethos without filling the place with old bhoys.

Sure there should be a place for a talent like Shaun Maloney to return and not wishing to name names but let’s face it, a lot of our old bhoys haven’t transitioned into footballing greats, either as players or coaches.

And those that did often did so elsewhere, that culture has to change for a start.

Now professionalism on the park is a must and that is the focus.

Start with a tier three UCL side, we know it can be done. Under BR we achieved that in actuality and in terms of European co-efficent.

It gave us record turnover, record profits, record squad value, invincible, treble winning professionals – a set up we can only dream about.

Then we need Europe after Christmas – not just to make up the numbers but to advance. A Club the size of Celtic should be no stranger to European Quarter finals. Sure with the rigged game the UCL at that stage is for Billion Dollar teams but there are other competitions and other ways you can succeed without throwing money at players, many Clubs have done just that.

So how does that relate to a membership service for Celtic supporters?

That’s a tough one for sure but content and creative minds for me is necessary, more important I would say than the Glorious leader.

Initially a hundred million pound Club (a crass name I’d obviously avoid but let’s imagine it!?) . Where Celtic’s Squad value, turnover property facilities are in that bracket.

A collection of Celtic supporters with real smarts and real ambition prepared to put cash into the service to make it a viable think tank.

You may be cynical but there are ways and means.

Several years ago Auldheid and I had a debate about a football streaming service, streaming live or even delayed games to supporter subscribers.

IIRC Pubs and Clubs as well as supporters could subscribe.

My thoughts were the old firm games, the cup semis and finals and possibly some other choice games were sold to the broadcasters.

That package negotiated well could bring in quite a high percentage of our current TV rights.

Then the Clubs make direct money from streaming.

Now that conversation is not wonderful hindsight, it was a documented debate on CQN. Of course most thought the idea demented but Covid and the streaming services proved that it was not only viable but was a cutting edge moneyspinner.

If we had a think tank that could hold Celtic to high standards, could make real world high value suggestions and to keep the Boards feet to the fire then for me that could be a use of the quality rather than the quantity of Celtic fans come into play.

A membership service focused on an elite Celtic with the potential to grow into a large and powerful supporters body.

Just~a~thot~

Hail Hail

Chairbhoy

CFC @ 9:35 am,

The way I see it little can be laid a DMcK’s door.

Unless there was a major left field reason and let’s face it, if it was personal or a major cock up that would have come to the fore by now.

Everything would suggest the chaos was caused by the same brains that gave us Mowbray, Lenny, Ronnie, the BR fiasco, the Eddie Howe fiasco etc etc.

Either DMcK was not the right man for the job and shouldn’t have been hired.

Or he was the right man for the job but couldn’t get on with the old bhoys – which means either the old bhoys or DMcK had to leave.

In a staid and dysfunctional organisation like Celtic there was only one outcome. The Dinosaurs ruled Paradise.

Hail Hail

jimthetim53

Chairbhoy, excellent post. 🙂

Bada Bing

Chairbhoy- correct

Bada Bing

Full capacity restored for Monday’s game

CFC

Chairbhoy

Good post at 12.04. Lots to take on board.

My DMcK question was in relation to his short 4 month tenure, coinciding with Ange’s appointment halfway through.

The chaos Ange refers to will no doubt cover a multitude of situations behind the scenes but he has stated before his unhappiness at the delays in getting deals done in the Summer. A period when DMcK was presumably in charge of player contract negotiations.

He then left abruptly in early September.

I’m not attempting a witch hunt here, just interested by the leader comment that DMcK impressed greatly, and wonder what that is based on.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

CHAIRBHOY

My own take on the “reign” and swift demise of DMcK is that he was parachuted into a disaster zone at short notice and expected to put lipstick on a pig.

This,he knew,was not a viable option. The appointment of Eddie Howe would have required considerable financial backing to meet his ambitions both on and off the pitch. DMcK clearly decided that our alternative option,AP,required and deserved backing of a similar extent.

Perhaps the board,thinking that AP was a cheaper option who would simply be content with being able to put our club on his CV,disagreed. AP in fact,as CFC correctly pointed out,wasn’t even happy with a transfer window which most of us viewed with a delightful disbelief!

AP has clearly come here with a determination to succeed,and he will not be prepared to accept decisions from above which are likely to thwart his ambitions. I think DMcK knew that,and supported him accordingly. But this flew in the face of any future plans from the board,leading to DMcK reminding them of the position they hired him for.

Which led to the board reminding him who does the hiring and firing!!!

CFC

BMCUW

The irony is , this window by common agreement, the Board are supporting Ange. So is he or isn’t he a cheap option suiting the Boards future plans?

And where does that leave the DMcK argument?

Bada Bing

Full capacity restored from Monday,indoor restrictions lifted on 24th January

CFC

Maybe, just maybe the more genteel rugby environment compared to the football bear pit suits DMcK.
Certainly transfer business is a less frenetic, dog eat dog business in rugby.

Rebus67

On the DMcK issue, I suspect nobody on here knows what actually happened causally. We can speculate because it is fun but no new facts are emerging. Unless someone in the know leaks then we shall never know. It seems both parties are content with keeping cards close to the chest. Consequently, I believe if a thing is not worth doing, it is not worth doing well.

On the service idea, presumably there will be the intent to gather funds from members? That puts an onus on the service from day 1. Pretty quickly, questions will be asked what am I getting for my money? In addition, the cry for more accountability and transparency will be hypocritical if it does not also apply to the service. It will be playing with other people’s money. Does that sound like any other organisation you know?

I am not saying this is a bad idea, but I am saying it is a million miles from being something that I would say yes or no to. The selection of objectives will be key and the process used to do this. That is where divisions will emerge. The recent case of the “new direction” for the CST proves that! Remember the initial enthusiasm to get on board with that? Then came the reality. The sound of the thud is still echoing.

Finally, I am typing this not because of content, but because it is -26 outside, with wind chill taking it to -35. It least my fingers are warm. Give a thought to those with no homes trying to survive in that…..some will not.

Rebus

Mahe

Up the Hoops!

CFC

Rebus67

As with most things in a closed environment speculation is all that is available.

The DMcK chat started as a simple enquiry re how good bad or indifferent in his role he was.

Time to consign it to history.

Sounds particularly freezing where you are.
A research station in Antarctica?

Rebus67

CFC,

My neighbours are yetis, those that stay over the winter. The rest have gone to Florida to get covid.

Rebus

CFC

Rebus67

Some Like It Hot.

REBUs 67
Heat wave in Mississauga -20c with wind chill,went out for five minutes bloody freezing.

My two cents worth on DMcK…….i think he was too much of a fan.

big packy

AFTERNOON ALL and JIM and SOL,you canadian ghuys love your posts, have you heard from mike in toronto, he has not been on for a while , mike if your lurking hope all is well.👍

Auldheid

Rebus67
On the DMcK issue, I suspect nobody on here knows what actually happened causally. We can speculate because it is fun but no new facts are emerging. Unless someone in the know leaks then we shall never know. It seems both parties are content with keeping cards close to the chest. Consequently, I believe if a thing is not worth doing, it is not worth doing well.

On the service idea, presumably there will be the intent to gather funds from members? That puts an onus on the service from day 1. Pretty quickly, questions will be asked what am I getting for my money? In addition, the cry for more accountability and transparency will be hypocritical if it does not also apply to the service. It will be playing with other people’s money. Does that sound like any other organisation you know?

I am not saying this is a bad idea, but I am saying it is a million miles from being something that I would say yes or no to. The selection of objectives will be key and the process used to do this. That is where divisions will emerge. The recent case of the “new direction” for the CST proves that! Remember the initial enthusiasm to get on board with that? Then came the reality. The sound of the thud is still echoing.

Finally, I am typing this not because of content, but because it is -26 outside, with wind chill taking it to -35. It least my fingers are warm. Give a thought to those with no homes trying to survive in that…..some will not.

Rebus
============
Fair points Rebus, but in my case I feel like I’m the granny and I’ve already sucked those eggs.

The interest in the CST was an opportunistic move taken by David Low on the back of the anger at the football disaster presided over by Peter Lawwell .

I tried to meet David Low on his appointment to see if Res 12 could be something he would support that would attract members..I was bringing up to 100 shareholders with me if he was interested. It was also to tell him what he was getting into bed with and it was a marriage that was never going to last. Jeanette Findlay is a good socialist and Low leans that far to the right he could have got an invite to garden parties during lockdown. He refused the offer, resisted Res12 to the point of mendacity that had me wondering wtf? The Gombeen Man came up with a possible answer when looking into Low’s business connections..

Low was a figurehead that drove up CST membership but I hear even they have had full and frank discussion about their strategy after their role in changing the resolution their members voted for. They also suffer from the subsidence of anger since the team started to get results under Ange.

Duplicity? Its more infectious than Omicron.

The last thing I would advocate is setting up something that had the same flaws as that which it was trying to replace.

The evidence based narrative is clear , Rangers cheated on Scottish football for years but avoided footballing justice enabled by an Agreement Celtic accepted.

Rangers obtained a UEFA CL place by false pretense that cost Celtic the opportunity to put a bit more cash in Celtic coffers.

Celtic decided it is not in the Companies interest to pursue, are in effect denying any cheating took place but there is no evidence that anything has changed since 2011 that would deter our main rivals repeating past behavior. There is no equivalent in Scottish football rules of Article 12 of UEFA FFP whose purpose is to protect the integrity of UEFA competition.

What it boils down to is do the Celtic support want to see integrity protecting deterrents introduced, like making refereeing a service accountable to the clubs via SPFL or carry on with wail wail?

A Membership Service would, if supporters indicated they wanted change, campaign on behalf of supporters for that and the other areas of reform that Celtic have shown they either will not pursue or cannot pursue under the restriction of SFA/SPFL membership.

Craig76

Celtic Football Club (@CelticFC) Tweeted: 🏟 Paradise, let’s make some noise for the Bhoys! 💥

🗣️ #CelticFC captain, Callum McGregor – “We’re all together, we’re all as one and when the place is rocking, we’re rocking.”

See you 🔜 #MondayNightFootball🍀 https://twitter.com/CelticFC/status/1480948540948070400?s=20

CFC

Simply put:
Integrity protecting deterrents = Fair and equal treatment on and off the park.

Therefore referees and governance.

What else is there?

Auldheid

Chairbhoy

“If we had a think tank that could hold Celtic to high standards, could make real world high value suggestions and to keep the Boards feet to the fire then for me that could be a use of the quality rather than the quantity of Celtic fans come into play.”

A membership service focused on an elite Celtic with the potential to grow into a large and powerful supporters body.
========================
It is something on those lines that I had in mind and to that extent have put the feelers out to folk working in the professions that I’ve met or dealt with on the Res12 journey.

Casting bread on the water, hoping for a nibble in effect. If we want a professionally run service then folk with a professional background, who are good Tims and at the end of the day are the professional product of a Catholic education growing up that goes back to the time Marist brothers started the education process in Glasgow in 1858.

That education over the generations has produced today’s professionals and though they might be earning a bob or two more than those not working in a profession, they are still blood of our blood, bone of our bone who are as fervent a Tim as the next guy.

I got the idea from talking to a Tim lawyer who would love to have got more involved than he was able but was still very helpful.

What is required is an agreement on a Vision for Celtic that we would all work towards to make a reality.

Find out how far Celtic reflect our vision as supporters, which requires Celtic to share theirs with us, then establish what activities by both parties will help make that vision a reality.

Activities that do not help Celtic become true to that vision are dropped, take lower priority or are conducted in such a fashion they align with or do not damage the vision/goal or divide the support, which cannot happen if the vision is a shared one.

You suggest what that vision might be in football terms but Celtic are not defined solely by the football we play. Celtic profess to be more than a club, it is time they with the support and encouragement of the support ,started to act like it.

CFC

Rambling rubbish.

What does any of that consciousness stream mean?

Auldheid

CFC
Simply put:
Integrity protecting deterrents = Fair and equal treatment on and off the park.

Therefore referees and governance.

What else is there?
==============
A domestic version of financial fair play? As necessary now as suggested over 10 years ago

https://celticunderground.net/sfa-reform-one-down-three-to-go/

The suggestions were noted by Peter Lawwell , but not sure how much they were pursued.

Now you got me thinking, how would a Membership Service help bring this about?

As a result of being funded they could get legal advice on the form of wording to put into paid adverts.

Then having got the attention of the public put a spokesman on radio to argue the case and build support for it on its merits.

A lesson I learned from 2011 was that whilst Celtic might be constrained by SFA/SPL rules in the type of case they could make for change. supporters were not, but lacked any platform to make the case from in a consistent manner,

An early resolution from an Open Meeting at St Mary’s back then adopted by the meeting seeking transparency and accountability from the SFA was passed to Celtic to deliver to SFA. It suited Celtic’s purpose then to do that because it was the season of honest mistakes but they could tell the SFA it is our supporters who are raising concerns and we must pass them on. It is a subtle but important point.

Sadly in the case of Res12 it turned out Celtic did not want any investigation by anyone for reasons .that only became clear in time.

SFTB

I see David Grier lost his £9m claim in the hIgh Court today for damages re his treatment in the Sevco fakeover fiasco. Hope the tide is turning.

Bada Bing

SFTB- I just read the Judge’s opinion of the head cop,and his interview techniques…..’Lord Tyre wrote in response: “As regards behaviour during interviews, there was evidence.. of unacceptable intimidatory and threatening behaviour by Mr Robertson during interviews.

“In other respects I found Mr Robertson’s evidence unsatisfactory.

Sol Kitts

Big Packy
Why is Les miserable?

big packy

HI SOL no idea, had to laugh at you talking about the over sixties club on here last night, i remember you inviting me to your 70th birthday party and you said bring your own food and drink, i was gobsmacked 😎😎,another true story😎

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

BIGPACKY

That was Boris inviting you,he had hacked SOLKITTS’ addy.

big packy

BOBBY, thought that as well😎😎

Rebus67

Auldheid,

I deduced that Low’s departure was due to his lack of enthusiasm for pursuing Res 12 matters. He hardly had the seat warm when he departed.

I am sure you realise that not everyone thinks that continued promotion of Res 12 is a worthwhile venture. Not because they do not agree that justice was not served, but because they think the issue is not winable as a Res 12 approach. Some think that fresh challenges may be worth pursuing……FFP, consistency of refereeing etc. it is not that they do not think you have a case, it is a question of pursuing contemporary issues of justice that might result in change. I cannot speak for David Low or for PL or the Celtic Board, but just maybe some or all of them adhere to the above thinking. It is possible.

Now, duplicity is another matter and you have my sympathy there. If PL had been Janette and if she thought as PL did, you would have known PDQ where you stood….all in my humble opinion. But yet again, if my aunt had baubles, she’d be my uncle!

Finally, since I have to finish my John Le Carre novel, your remark on rightness and garden parties had me laughing out loud! That one will stay with me for a long time.

After Oscar Wilde made a witty remark at a social gathering, a lady said, “I wish I had said that!” Oscar replied, “Don’t worry, madame, you will!” I shall use your line.

Rebus

Sol Kitts

Big Packy
I have no recollection of any party, and if I was at a party I can confirm no rules were broken.

big packy

SOL i have it on good authority that you were there,JIM told me,😎

big packy

BTW, its either snooker hercule poirot or mrs marple, thats why jim is not on😎

Sol Kitts

Big Packy
I reckon Poirot will beat Marple by 5 frames to 3.

big packy

SOL thats a good bet 😎😎

jimthetim53

Packy, hungover pal! 🙂

big packy

AHH he has arrived, come on was it the snooker or the other😎

jimthetim53

I admit I watched some of the Ronnie O’Sullivan match.
btw It’s not Mrs. Marple, it’s Miss Marple. She never married. The love of her life, died in the 1st World War.