30th March – If you know your history

60 years ago …. 1962 and on this day (Friday) the Celts are preparing for yet another Scottish Cup Semi-Final match.

We are however, in The Faithful era and the road to Hampden ain’t quite as smooth for our Faither’s generation as it was for our grandfathers & great grandfathers…we hadn’t won a Scottish Cup (or League) since the memorable ’54 Double season.

Three ‘lost’ Finals: ’55 ( 1-0 Clyde); ’56 (3-1 Hearts) and ’61 (1-0 Dunfermline) were scant consolation for Hoops fans. Not withstanding 2 League Cup wins ( including a 7-1)

Still, hopes remain high that Celts’ 0-5 win at Love Street the previous Monday indicate that they can overcome The Buddies and get back to Hampden.

St Mirren had recently won the cup 1959 (3-1 v Aberdeen)

Anyone remember a recent Celtic thrashing of Saints, followed up by a huge reverse the following week?

1962-03-31: St Mirren 3-1 Celtic, Scottish Cup (Ibrox)

Back in came Johnstone’s Jim Kennedy and John Hughes.

Mike Jackson who had been missing since mid February had a cartilage operation and would be out for a while.

’57 League Cup Final ( Hampden in the Sun) hero Willie Fernie scores the first goal for Buddies in 7 minutes and then it’s all downhill…

Game stopped for 16 minutes on 70 minutes with St Mirren 3-0 up as terracing fighting amongst Celtic fans spills into a pitch invasion. Bottles were slung from the top of the west terrace and as fights broke out the supporters spilled out onto the pitch. As the police got on top of the situation the invasion continued at the other end of the ground and within minutes the entire ground was alive with people fighting. Seven mounted police appeared and helped to clear the pitch before play could continue. Both teams were taken off the park whilst the police cleared the field.Play was resumed with a ring of police around the ground.

Celtic chairman Robert Kelly is said to have conceded the tie to is St Mirren counterpart during the pitch invasion.

Teams

Celtic: Haffey; Mackay, Kennedy; Crerand, McNeil, Clark; Brogan, Chalmers, Hughes, Divers, Byrne

Scorers: Byrne (83)

St Mirren:

Williamson; Campbell, Wilson; Stewart, Clunie, McLean; Henderson, Bryceland, Kerrigan, Willie Fernie, Beck.

Scorers: Fernie (7), Kerrigan (32), Beck (33)

Referee: A McKenzie (Coatbridge)

Attendance: 56,000

Frank Haffey under pressure at Ibrox.

In other news…

M C Hammer [Stanley Kirk Burrell], rapper (Hammer Time), born in Oakland, California

General stuff…

240BC 1st recorded perihelion passage of Halley’s Comet

1282 The people of Sicily rebel against the Angevin king Charles I, in what becomes known as the Sicilian Vespers

1603 Battle at Mellifont: English army under Lord Mountjoy beats Irish

1856 Russia signs the Treaty of Paris, ending the Crimean War

1867 Alaska Purchase: US buys Alaska from Russia for $7,200,000 ($109 million in 2018), roughly 2 cents an acre

1950 Robbie Coltrane , Scottish actor (Harry Potter films) and comedian, born in Rutherglen, South Lanarkshire ( who remembers C E L T I C scene …?)

1967Cover picture of Beatles’ “Sgt Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band” album is photographed by Michael Cooper

Note: The excellent Celtic Wiki site is the font of all knowledge on things Celtic. Most of the Celtic stuff above is from that site. The guys who set it up and painstakingly keep it updated, deserve no end of credit, praise and thanks. A treasure trove for Celtic fans young and old – and new- and free to view.

Respect Bhoys!

http://www.thecelticwiki.com/m/

Guest article by Saltires en Sevilla.

Change the record by sending an article to sentinelcelts@gmail.com

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big packy

SALTIRES great post as usual ,thank you once again for putting the time and effort into these posts👍

Jobo Baldie

Good morning, friends. Thanks SES, that was another absolute Cracker 😉

Bawheid

Oh Dear. Just when you think that you have successfully blocked out the desolation of those dark times up it pops to kick you in the Goolies. Thank’s Saltires. 😉
Frank Haffey – Gulp.
But throughout the thread of that team, there lies some of the most successful players that made our club recognised throughout Europe. Pat Crerand was my hero at the time, he too won the European Cup but with Manchester Utd. in 1968. I was devastated when he left. Some great players in that team, some went on to achieve great things, proving that, as history tells us that with the right manager, great things can happen. Well done Saltires keep them coming.

The Gombeen Man

Thanks SES for another enlightening article.

Towards the end of the piece I note the mention of the Battle of Mellifont in 1603. By this do you mean the Treaty of Mellifont of 1603?

Just a quick pen picture,

An understanding of Mellifont and it’s history gives invaluable insight into the origins of the conflict with the oppressor on the island.

Known as An Mhainistir Mhór in Gaelic. Mellifont was established by St Malachi and St Bernard of Clairvaux as a Cistercian Monastery. It’s founding marked the first really significant move towards Romanisation of what had become a chaotic Gaelic Church.

The Cistercian Order followed the Rule of Benedict as opposed to the Gaelic Rule of Columbanas.

Ironically, St Bernard sent over a number of monks to Ireland to show the locals the ropes. Seemingly, ‘they didn’t take to Ireland’ and returned to France not too long after their arrival.

The second event at Mellifont was the Synod of March 1152. It formalised a Diocesan structure in Ireland and took Dublin from under the auspices of Canterbury.

The Papal delegate sent from Rome, Cardinal Paparo had been denied Safe Passage through England for his journey by King Stephen and travelled through Scotland to Ireland. At the conclusion of the Synod the same detour through Gaelic Scotland was made…

The reason why is believed to relate to England’s desire that Dublin would remain under the control of Canterbury.

An early indication of tension between the two Monarchies of Rome and England? And ongoing cooperation between Gaelic Scotland and Ireland.

”The Annals of the Four Masters report that those present (at the Synod)”established some rules thereat i.e. to put away concubines and mistresses from men; not to demand payment for anointing or baptizing (though it is not good not to give such, if it were in a person’s power); not to take [simoniacal] payment for church property; and to receive tithes punctually.”

Mellifont is the last resting place of Derbforgaill Maeleachlainn or Devorgilla. This lady has unfortunately been labelled the Helen of Troy of Ireland. Some say she eloped with the King of Leinster, Dermot MacMurrogh (Diarmait Mac Murchada) others say she was abducted.

Whatever the case, this event helped precipate Dermot’s exile and his invitation to the Normans to help him return to Ireland. Richard de Clare (Strongbow) duly invaded and England embarked on 800 years of tyranny.

Derbforgaill Maeleachlainn is buried beneath the chancel pavement at Mellifont.

The O’Neill, Hugh O’Neill submitted and signed the Treaty of Mellifont in March 1603. The English representative was Lord Mountjoy. Mountjoy didn’t tell O’Neill of Elizabeth Ist’s death just before the signing of the Treaty.

The English side had made generous concessions to end the draining conflict. O’Neill and his supporters were to keep their lands and be allowed to remain Catholic.

What difference knowledge of Mary Queen of Scots, son James Ist accession to the throne is academic. Great hope existed in Ireland for him at the time. He was a Gael with lineage to Malcolm and the Milesians.

In July of 1690, William of Orange camped at Mellifont before the Battle of the Boyne. The battleground is a mile or two away at Oldbridge.

Ireland once again the scene and victim of someone else’s War and fighting over differing interpretations of the dubious hereditary system.

England reneged on her commitments under the 1603 Treaty of Mellifont.

Hugh O’Neill and Rory O’Donnell left Ireland in what became known as the Flight of the Earls in 1607.

It’s ironic too that a woman, in the person of Derbforgaill Maeleachlainn or Devorgilla somehow still shoulders much of the blame in this predominantly male fiasco.

It’s also difficult to resist the temptation to point out that her abductor or suitor was named Dermot.

Dermot as a first name in Irish terms, has very unfortunate connotations.

Old Mellifont

https://heritageireland.ie/places-to-visit/old-mellifont-abbey/

Today’s New Mellifont…Still doing retreats and renound for it’s Garden Centre.

https://mellifontabbey.ie/home/

(I’ve a couple of folk to get back to from my last post, I’ve been in Glasgow but will get back to them.)

jimthetim53

SeS, Cheers once more for the interesting article.
I believe the wee bhoy with the duffle coat, in the picture of the pitch invasion, is actually Packy with his father or uncle! 🙂

jimthetim53

An interesting thing in the article is that in covering the Scottish Cup semi final, and other results in the backdrop to it, the following teams are mentioned – Celtic, Clyde, Hearts, Dunfermline, St. Mirren, Aberdeen. Not one mention of the ‘mighty’ Glesca Ranjurs! Changed days! 🙂

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

SALTIRES

Great stuff as always,and an education for me as well. Although I obviously knew about “The Famine Years”-it’s why COSYCORNERBHOY was such a happyclapper for so long!-and about our many near misses,I was unaware of that riot.

It took me back to the 70s and early 80s,when seeing fellow supporters wearing bliddy crash helmets was far from unusual. And how we used to cower as a rain-a very apt collective noun-of bottles would fly,hopefully over our heads. We weren’t concerned about being hit by one,even less about being targeted by one of the idiots throwing them. But we sure were gonna do our best to avoid their contents spiralling everywhere on their descent!

Same goes for our visits to the newly redesigned Ibrox in those days,when the only place to be was in their enclosure. Everywhere else was seated,and that was not for us young traditionalists. An oxymoron which probably describes my attitude to life even to this day. Many of you will know,while the rest can guess,that it was not the driest place to be,underneath their main stand.

You took your chances in a game of Russian Roulette back then.

Times have changed indeed when the worst thing we can say about current supporters is that we aren’t too keen on their songbook of choice. Ye Gods,when I remember the chants from back then…

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

ASWGL

Another wonderful backdrop,and one which will hopefully be the basis for an article in the near future. Of the people who post here,those whom I have met or conversed with over the years of TIMTERNET,only COSYCORNERBHOY,ATHINGOFBEAUTY and PADDYSMAW knew at the time how much I worshipped Jorge Cadete. I think I bored the arse off them on the subject.

IMO,Fergus should have showered him with all the love and largesse required to keep him happy. Sadly,it seems that nothing could have kept his wife happy! But think about him and Henrik together,with Lubo to come?

Sadly not to be,of course. Such is life,full of maybes,innit?

Saltires en Sevilla

Thanks for kind comments folks appreciated.

Jim -there may have been some choice editing there buddy – unfortunately, they are hovering around 😏

Big Packy had a duffle coat? … not a Parka …☺️

Jobo – aye – can’t think why I remembered that particular episode of Chancer …

Bawheid – apologies for reminding you buddy — hehehe- incidentally was Frank Haffey unfairly maligned because of 9-3 game at Wembley ?

Bobby – loved Jorge and that’s another belter from ASWGL

TGM – great item yet again- The fictitious Battle Mellifont 1603 was lifted directly from my usual trusted source – but you are absolutely spot on to point out that it was in fact a Treaty – ‘ Articles of Mellifont ‘ ending the Nine Year War- and happy to be corrected on the error. Please keep them coming buddy.

Prestonpans bhoys

I remember being in the enclosure at the bigotdome, the huns were in the main stand above. My friend said to me, it’s raining, no Matt I replied its a bit warm for that 😕

Craig76

My biggest regret is not staying at Celtic for a long time but sometimes decisions are taken for you, and while I played for some big clubs after Celtic, there was never the same special feeling again & that makes me sad.” 26 years ago today, Jorge Cadete signed for Celtic

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SALTIRES

Coincidentally,when I arrived Chez SOLKITTS on Sunday-eventually,six bloody hours,would have been quicker hitchhiking-the boxed set of Cracker was on their table.

People are quick to tell you that the streaming services have upped the ante re TV,but even for someone who rarely watches TV these days,I think the output from BBC,ITV,C4 is underrated to the point of snobbery.

I’ve yet to see anything from them top the likes of Cracker,Cheers and Frasier or even When The Boat Comes In.

Or…

Still Game!

Craig76

BMCUWP
Don’t think Fergus was going to shower Jorge with love

Mac Daddy (@MacDaddy1916) Tweeted: @Celtic1967_com https://t.co/NeW0yM02FJ https://twitter.com/MacDaddy1916/status/1509112935691476993?s=20&t=mv6Nfk_-_KuizmX1zU-sTA

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

CRAIG76

There was some rather sad manlove with Jorge. My sisters would sometimes slag me about it,but we had waited so long for someone like him. Fortunately,I realised I wasn’t alone in that when we met his sister on Pink Street in Lisbon,2017.

As you will know,a crowd of us were over in our thousands to celebrate the 50th,and about 3am,two cops came strolling down the street. Jorge’s sister was one of them. If she didn’t realise at the time how much we adored her brother,she found out twenty years later! Not from me,I’m quite shy really. From everyone else,honest…

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

CRAIG76

Aye,I know. Fergus had one big weakness,that he didn’t realise that there’s a time for hardball and a time for pragmatism. That had already cost us Big Pierre,and later Wim The Tim. I don’t think anything could have kept Jorge in Glasgow though.

I said at the time that Fergus’ problem was that he was unaware of the workings of football,especially in the new TV era when clubs were thrown money and were happy to throw it back at players and agents. He had made his money in Canada,and his employees there were probably being paid around C$20k a year. And happy to get it. Suddenly,people are wanting £20k a week?

If he had nine of them on the books,it amounted every year to more than his initial investment to buy the club in the first place!

Of course,in Scotland a lot of the wage inflation came from Ibrox. And we soon found out exactly how they managed to do that.

jimthetim53

Embarrassed to ask this, remind me who that is above Tommy Burns?

Bawheid

Saltires, when any team gets beaten 9-3 its more than one mans fault, its a collective game. Goalkeepers are a different breed and Frank was a different breed entirely. Reading yesterday about Lawwells involvement with big Joe Hart and his choosing Barkas over big Joe Hart due to Joe not having any sell – on value. Sir Bob Kelly lives on. When non football people interfere in all aspects of buying and selling players, then the manager is handicapped straight away.
Keep strutting your stuff Saltires your doing just great.

Andreas Thom. I was at Parkheid when Jorge made his belated Celtic debut against the Dons, as he sprinted on to the grass his legs were perpetual motion, one touch goal! A brilliant player.

Craig76

JTT53
His face is obscured on my mobile but I think it is Andreas Thom

Bawheid

Or Craig Burley, nope its Andreas Thom, or Craig burley, nope its definitely Craig, or is it?

jimthetim53

Thanks Craig, I knew his face just couldn’t put a name to it. A common complaint from me nowadays! Quite appropriate that he’s beside Tommy Burns, he played for Tommy!

jimthetim53

Bawheid, LOL 🙂

BOBBY
Over here we used to get on our football program about a half hour of European football and that was the first time i saw Jorge Cadete.Thought to myself what a cracking player this lad is and when we signed him i was over the moon.Man crush for sure.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

PRESTONPANSBHOY

I was pretty much immune from their offers. I would normally be standing beside SOLKITTS,who runs to a bit of height. I prefer to think that the huns were judicious in their targets,that they would take a look at the big fella and aim elsewhere. The only other option is that he was my own 14-stone umbrella!

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TIMHORTON

At that time,my visits to Celtic Park were rare mainly due to the season tickets being sold out. That was soon sorted thanks to my Dad,and his seating neighbour,an Irish fella called Kevin. I was so glad that morning in Pink Street to find out that it wasn’t just me!!!

Bigrailroadblues

Good afternoon all from the Crystal Palace. Glasgow version.

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BIGRAILROADBLUES

Slumming it?

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BAWHEID

You raise a good point about very good players not being managed properly. Jimmy McGrory at that time would probably have been regarded as our greatest ever player,and deservingly so. His record as our manager suggests that he didn’t carry that excellence off the pitch and into the dugout.

From my reading over the years,it seems that Jimmy was quite a retiring type,who came to life when he donned The Hoooooops. He certainly wasn’t equipped to deal as manager with the micromanaging Bob Kelly taking the decisions.

That changed though when Jock arrived,and insisted 100% that he was in charge of team affairs. When he submitted his first selection to Kelly,Jock was told that Bobby Murdoch was an inside right and not a right half.

Jock’s reply?

Aye,you’ll see on Saturday whether he’s a right half or not!

Saltires

It is always a pleasure to read your Wednesday leaders. Does anyone have any idea why the 1962 Scottish Cup semi-final was played at Ibrox? Other than the obvious…the Huns would have taken a cut of the gate money. That attendance of 56,000 was rather low for a cup semi. Did a lot of Celts boycott the game due to the venue?

TGM

It too, is always a pleasure to read your posts.

BMCUW

I can only recall being in the West Enclosure at Ibrox for one game…the 1997 League Cup Final. Fortunately, the Main Stand above us was full of Tims, so we avoided the usual ‘welcome’ that the Huns normally reserved for Celts standing in that area.

Hail Hail.

big packy

SALTIRES how dare you sir, ive still got that duffel coat😎 im trying to put wee joans treadmill together, been at it since 9 this morning just managed to get it out the box 10 mins ago, cant ask wee joan to help me, she is exhausted after having to carry it upstairs on her own, hey im 69 and got a bad back,😎

Bigrailroadblues

Mick, this joint is too classy for an old drunk like me.

jimthetim53

Packy I remember in the 60s duffle coats were massively popular. They were warm, had a hood. What more could you ask for?

jimthetim53

“Large post-war stocks of low-cost military surplus coats turned the duffel into a ubiquitous item of British civilian clothing in the 1950s and 1960s, especially among students. The firm Gloverall purchased large quantities, and in 1954 started producing their own version using leather fastenings and buffalo horn toggles with a double-faced check lining, and many other modern versions copy some or all of those features.[8]”

big packy

JIM, how good are you at DIY, this is driving me nuts😎 another true story

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BIGPACKY

DIY?

Don’t Involve Yourself.

Sol Kitts

Jimthetim53
A true story for you. Years ago, Big Packy asked wee Joan what she wanted for her birthday. She asked for a new coat, made from some kind of animal skin. As Big Packy found out later, she did NOT mean a donkey jacket. 😂😂😎

jimthetim53

Sol Kitts, LOL 🙂
Hope everything went well for you & the family on Monday.

jimthetim53

Packy, Me & DIY? Nae chance! 🙂

bada bing1

Watched the Shane Warne Memorial from MCG…..fantastic event,what a superstar of a man.

big packy

SOL😎 as regards the DIY thanks ghuys 😎

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JIMTHETIM53

Marvellous day,best wedding I’ve been to in years. Big fat Essex wedding,so pleased to have had the privilege of being invited.

And being a right cynical git,you know that I would only say that if it was true!

The following morning,over breakfast,the craic and the wind-ups were still going strong. Which is a mark of some good relationships. The bride and groom looked terrific on the day,as expected,but the closeness of their friends and family was the best thing about it.

Margaret McGill

SES. Good stuff.
Isnt it amazing on here how we freely blog about the 50’s 60’s 70’s 80′ 90’s MON the 19th Century, !8th century, 17th century in fact fuck me all the way back to AD 33 but 2012 is tabboooooooooooo

jimthetim53

Mags, LOL 🙂

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MAGS

Any comments about 2012 are always welcome here,as you know. This is not a site which tells its contributors-or has other contributors do so-to move on,the ship has sailed.

Deal with the present,but never forget nor forgive the past.

big packy

MAGS, would that have something to do with the infamous glesga rainjurs 😎

big packy

just taking the dugs oot for their last walk, dont worry bobby😎😎

CFC

M McG

Taboo?

Naw, the discussion is just ignored. Like a lot of stuff on here. Which is why very few contribute.
7,000 views apparently and less than 70 offer any sort of opinion… on most things.
I read someone on CQN yesterday, I think, say they look in on SC but don’t contribute because it is too boring.

From last comment on previous blog.

“In our more recent past the issue of morality and integrity was set aside and the decision was taken that remaining competitive was everything.

In 2012 a commercial decision based on appeasement was made. With our survival in mind. The duopoly only works if both exist.”

Margaret McGill

CFC
Yup
That line sits well with most on CQN because they are in the main hun loving scum and board appeasers. Happy clappers I think is the colloquialism. The lady doth protest too much methinks. Still to give SC credit though for the 70 or so who try.

Saltires en Sevilla

Magua – cheers methinks Rangers were at Hampden that day but didn’t check – the crowd does seem low as Buddies surely took at least 20,000 along Paisley Road West?

Big Packy / aye you had a Royal Blue Gloverall. Jim told me it was a special edition lined with Black Watch Tartan…. said it was a true story

Sol Kitts sounds like a great wedding . And that Donkey Jaicket story 🙂😂🤣

Mags–cheers buddy I searched hi and lo on internet but it seems everything that happened in 2012 is fake news… I absolutely refuse to carry fake stories here… apart from the Battle of Mellifont ( was just checking TGM was awake..) 😇

A thing of beauty

SES,
Thanks for the history lesson again, much appreciated.
TGM,
That brain of yours must be the size of a small planet. I find it amazing you know all this stuff.
To other matters. Yet another game at hampden against the Huns and yet another ballot that I did not come out. Been on the HCTS since it started, never missed a game and yet again I get passed over for the game against the them. That’s twice in a row btw!!
2 things annoy me about this. Firstly, I have no issue with the open ballot. Everyone in the HCTS deserves a fair chance for a ticket and accept the number of years you’ve been in the scheme should not give you preferential treatment. So, can someone tell me why this does not apply to the away ticket scheme? I have been on the away scheme for longer than some of the regulars at away games have been on the planet yet I’ve never been offered a ticket. That’s wrong and is totally unfair.
The second thing that annoys me is that Celtic take your money for tickets against raith and their ilk full in the knowledge that when we get the Huns they will actively reduce your chance of getting a ticket by keeping several hundred tickets out of the ballot
for people willing to pay £200 hospitality to get a bus from celtic park after a wee bacon roll and a hauf. The ticketing at celtic park is a disgrace. All I want is fairness, no fan treated preferentially but that is clearly
not the case. Like I say, I accept I did not come out the ballot but all the tickets aren’t in the ballot in the first place for games against them and all the names aren’t in the ballot for away games. How is that allowed?

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CFC

How many times do you comment on an article you might read in say,the DR or Daily Mail,Guardian,etc? Most people read but believe they have little to offer. In that,I think they are wrong,btw. Everyone has something to offer.

I like to think that this site is open for comments to everyone who has Celtic in their heart. That we have fortunately avoided any sense of cliques or bullying,and that we can all express our thoughts-even if there might be someone along in a minute to tell you why he/she disagrees.

And does so in a respectful manner. So,yes,it IS like being in a pub with yer pals,and yes,we are allowed to disagree. But if you think that 70 or so people commenting is a bit lowball,check the other sites. Not the number of comments,the number of individual posters. We come out top three on most metrics.

But believe it or not,MAHE and I didn’t start this site to talk about numbers. We started it to give people a place to air their views. People who were maybe disaffected members of other sites,as were we. And we did it only with the help of the techie guys,the legal guys too,who gave their assistance for free.

They know who they are,I don’t need to name them.

They did so because they trusted us,and they trusted us too to never sell out to the advertising hawks which have made so many other sites virtually inaccessible. Never to accept an invitation to the “inner circle” in return for clickbait. Etc.

I think we’ve dealt our hand fairly,and respected the initial ethos of the site. I’m glad you are on it too,and that you feel welcome. Certainly,your opinions are. People told MAHE and me that it couldn’t be done. But with the help of others-including yourself!-we did.

Keep the comments coming,please. Maybe an article? It’s your call-because that’s another thing about the site. If you want the daily article,mail it to MAHE

How many sites offer that?

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