Loss Of Trust In The Celtic Trust


Morning,all.

Today brings us a guest article,about The Celtic Trust AGM,to be held later today.

~~~~~~

Celtic Trust suffers from personality disorder

A ‘no confidence’ motion for today’s AGM, suggests that the Celtic Trust suffers from a personality disorder. A lack of objectives and an action plan by longstanding officers reveals that the Trust cannot decide if it’s a shareholders group, a fans campaign or a can-rattling charity.

On 17th May the Celtic Trust conducts its AGM. They are generally dry affairs. The Trustees like it that way. Their sole moment of relevance is the PLC AGM in November when they can berate the Board and, in times past, Peter Lawwell. 

Like many shareholders I got involved in late 2019 in when 10-in-a-row season was obviously lost. It was a fertile recruiting period for the Trust and membership which had been at around 300-500 mark increased to over 1,000 during 2021.

Along with many newcomers I offered my services. My background is as a journalist and corporate communications manager. I wanted to offer my professional advice to help the Trust build its voice and visibility. 

Before getting involved, I was always surprised how the Trust seemed to punch below its weight. After all, with 1,000 members providing a solid income at around £60,000 per year, and plenty of financial reserves, there seemed to be nothing stopping the trust becoming a major influence among the fans and on the club.

Potentially, there are 25-30,000 shareholders, there are 60,000 fans and there is a fanbase family of millions. 

But the last meeting (March 2022) of the Trust had many of the same faces in charge, but just 30 people attending: Not even enough for a quorum. 

I now have some ideas why the Trust punches below its weight. 

The facts don’t lie: 

• Less than 0.5% shareholding

• Less than 1,000 members and falling

• Irrelevant to the PLC Board

• No strategic plan

• No recruitment plan

• No fundraising plan

Recently the Trust came up with a plan for a shadow board. It really is ironic as the reality is we have a shadow Trust. Sure,it has been involved in successes for fans, in stadium facilities and in working with other Celtic groups. 

But the reality is the Trust has a personality disorder. It does not know if it’s a membership organisation (for shareholders) a campaigning organisation for fans or a charity for good causes. It has run successful campaigns, but it takes its own members and finances for granted. 

Last year new recruits worked on a paper version of the shareholder register. The PLC board refused an electronic version. It was pored over and names and addresses were entered on a spreadsheet (The register does not contain emails, only postal addresses.)

The shareholder committee identified 12,000 shareholders with more than 500 shares and 4,000 with more than 10shares. A mailout would cost around £2,500 albeit with no guarantee of success. 

The trustees rejected the proposal to spend any money and instead tried to crowdfund the tactic. It was really amateurish to see this play out. An organisation bringing in £60k asking non-members fans to pay for stamps. 

Then, prior to the PLC AGM in November, the Trustees were forced to scramble outside Parkhead for signatures for motions that had been adopted at a meeting in the summer.

I don’t wish to embarrass people individually, but these incidents are typical of group who collectively lack leadership skills, are scared to invest in the organisation and, frankly, have been at the helm for far too long. An irrelevance to the PLC board who treat the Trust with contempt because of the amateurism. 

At key moments in the last year – the failed Eddie Howe negotiations, the departure of CEO Peter Lawwell, the departure of Dominic McKay, the internal appointment of Michael Nicholson, the poor showing and Europa Cup exit –the Trust had nothing publicly to say on these PLC-related failures. Mental health awareness is laudable but it’s hardly core business for the Trust.

The Trust lacks a strategy and an action plan with milestones and tactics to increase membership, shareholding and fundraising. It plays smoke and mirrors, stating it is in the top 10 shareholders, when in reality it is 0.04%. The Trust’s 120,000 shares are less than half what former CEO Peter Lawwell holds. 

The latest Trust proposal is for an awareness campaign to find shareholders: The ones it already has addresses for. Retweet on social media and tell your mates to ask their old maw if dad ever bought shares in the 90s. Another vague campaign that won’t increase either membership or shareholding. More pie in the sky amateurism from Trustees. 

They are as incumbent and inept as the PLC Board it likes to slate. 

I wrote an Open Letter to the Trustees which I presented to them and asked them to consider it and to discuss it with the membership on the Trust’s dedicated Forum. The trustees refused to do this. 

Dialogue with members was not something the Trustees are keen on. Dissent is quickly stamped on and discussion is not tolerated.

I had a website blog and news story removed from the website, I was removed from the Communications Sub Committee after the mailout issue and decided to take no further part in Trust activities till the AGM next week.

Last month, the Trust took a decision to close down the Forum – get this – due to lack of interest and participation. The very people who wouldn’t participate or promote it. 

So, my advice to members is to attend the AGM and ask some very pertinent questions about leadership and direction of the Trust. 

My instinct is that the Trust is a dead duck. Unless we vote for the motion of no confidence that I have submitted and remove long-standing Trustees and Officers, the only hope for shareholders is a new shareholders organisation with a dynamic, professional approach.

Chris McGachy

Celtic Shareholder

Celtic Trust member

Twitter: @mcgachy

Motion for AGM

Celtic Trust motion for discussion at Annual General Meeting on 17 May 2022

Motion

This meeting agrees to a vote of no confidence in the current Trustees and Officers of the Celtic Trust.

The failure of the PLC board to deliver any meaningful European progression despite a decade of domestic dominance has been mirrored by the Trustees and Officers of the Celtic Trust. 

Despite a traumatic league loss in season 2020-2021, the Trust leadership has overseen a reduction in Trust membership and no significant percentage increase in share ownership, least of all to 5%.

And in spite the formation of specialist sub-committees in early 2021, the Trust activities have seen no sustained campaigning against the PLC board or to attract either new members or to trace existing shareholders and increase its visibility as a shareholding organisation that fans can rally around. 

Trust membership delivers around £60,000 per year in subscriptions. This meeting agrees that Trust activities do not represent value for money.

This meeting calls on incoming Trustees and Officers to produce a meaningful strategy document within three months of this AGM. This should include an activity plan to show with 6, 9 and 12-month objectives to show how the Trustees plan to increase both membership and percentage shareholding within the PLC club. 

Proposed by 

Chris McGachy

31 Comment authors
  Subscribe  
Notify of
BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

Hopefully Mr and Mrs LEGGY had a great day yesterday. 70 is a bit of a milestone,and congratulations are due!

It was also my nephew’s 30th yesterday. I expect he was at work,but celebrated it in advance. And he knows how to celebrate,that yin…

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

CHRIS

We only received this on Friday or Saturday,and for obvious reasons the Saturday and Monday articles had to be about our title. I wish you every success in your proposal,because that organisation is thoroughly hidebound and needs a good shake up.

Chairbhoy

Interesting lead, can the Celtic Trust really be reformed, maybe if they have a good hard look at themselves and see how impotent they’ve been in the last ten years, a period where Celtic supporters needed a Trust desperately – they can admit they failed and take some bold steps.

Auldheid May 16, 2022 11:11 am,

I think realising the importance of values is something that is understood during a person’s lifetime.

It depends on an individual’s beliefs that life challenges and the response to those challenges. Ignore them or think again, so not surprising it was an uphill battle to get the value of values message over.

A bit like wandering into Plato”s Cave I later came to realise and I want to thank you for your support and encouragement that kept me going over the Res12 years.

I did appreciate it.

Yes, the Plato’s cave allegory is perfect.

It was very much a journey, hope you get time to write that book, it doesn’t have to be a tome; the circumstances around one of the largest corruption stories in British sporting history, our Clubs response, both public and what was happening in reality and Celtic and the authorities response, official and in actuality.

The WTC “smoking gun” and “res12, runs in sync with the official narrative, illuminating the dark underbelly of secrets and lies being peddled.

A stain forever on Scottish football that didn’t surprise us and a stain on our Club which did, or at least it did me.

Thank you for the kind words though, like many I’m sure, it was a sense of uselessness I felt.

Yet with you’re scrupulous precision to the detail, strategic excellence in keeping it relevant and your ruthless determination to keep their feet to the fire, you managed to highlight the corruption – not even the 5wa or LNS Commission with their vast and intricate deceits could bury your case.

The best fans in the world, maybe, but we are still in the cave and it’s a truism to say we don’t have a supporters organisation worth the name.

Keep~on~keeping~on

Hail Hail

SeS

Chris,

Your leader comes across with passion, sincerity & a fair bit of frustration as a genuine Celt, and for that reason alone I wish you well with this plan.

You ask good questions: Why? Who? What has to be done ..What will succes look like etc.

However, you would do your cause a huge service if you could begin by
pointing directly to a time or example, where this model/the one you envisage – worked effectively in any context, but preferably in a football/soccer context?

From my viewpoint:

Setting up groups of small shareholders to take on Billionaire owners Is unlikely to effect change, simply because The said Billionaires will always plan to manipulate and divide small shareholders. Folk will be sent out on a mission to join alternativegroup with the sole intention of derailing their plans.

From the outside looking in at various recent Trust initiatives ( the historical good causes are well- documented and rightly lauded/acknowledged) it appears that this is precisely what has happened- it’s fairly obvious that has happened.

This response could easily be construed as an attempt to do that. You only have my word that it’s not.

Have you considered that the very name ‘Trust’ is already toxic in the hearts and minds of Celtic fans?

You will already be aware that Corporate folks like it when other folk decide to play them at their own game. It’s their natural habitat.

Also , to add in a further layer of complexity…When there is a way to make money – a quick buck out of subscriptions, there will be no shortage of grifters and schemers with plans to get a slice of that ‘easy money’. 1,000 folk paying subs. Of say, £100k in last two years, give or take? Will attract some dodgy characters without one single care for Celtic or the interests of fans/members.

In any case Why is that level of funding needed?

Let’s face it – it is never going to realise enough cash to buy enough shares to make a big enough dent in Corporate Celtic.

10 years with 10,000 members wouldn’t achieve that.

Maybe, that won’t be part of the plan you propose.

There is merit in the idea that a fighting fund can be used to gather up existing Shareholders under a single proxy, to gain a small voice at AGM – cover administration & legal expenses, even a paid official etc. However, we already know that this just looks like a thankless task for reasons you explain. Who seriously is going to send out thousands of letters to addresses that may or may not be up to date. I’ve moved home 5 times since I bought my shares… surely most will have moved at least once?

Then to be asked ‘hand over’ shares to a Trust who appear to be riven with internal conflict .. and also potentially be asked to stump up £60 per annum.

I do understand it’s part of your plan to change all of this at some point, but I hope you can see my point here, the difficulty you will have persuading ordinary guys like me who don’t know you and haven’t see any examples of where this model has worked?

Nevertheless, a strong personable leader could close that, dareisay trust, gap and find a way to Reach ordinary Shareholdes. By utilising modern marketing techniques etc. That could have a positive return of sorts. Your background indicates you may have that know-how.

But

This plan won’t bag Enough shares to really count. Or if it begins to look like it might count against them ….The goalposts will be shifted as often as it takes.

So a solution ?

Don’t play them at their own game!

Play them at the game all Corporation fear most…

Cut their cash supply right off.

Unfortunately, things aren’t anywhere near bad enough for that to happen.. yet!

Ultimately Events in Europe might create a rapid change in mood sooner than any of us realise…

In the short-term reality Season Ticket holders who keep the whole thing ticking over have been given an Angeball to play with.. they love it .. and who wouldn’t?

Maybe If he doesn’t ‘cut it’ in Europe ….or more new clubs keep reaching European finals…

Hope you take this in the spirit it’s intended and can find a way to make meaningful progress.

HH

SeS

Mr & Mrs Leggy – congratulations folks 🎉

The Gombeen Man

The ancient Greeks invented the modern concept of the Soul.

It’s somewhat ironic that it took a Greek born coach of Celtic remind us of, even for a few seconds, what it’s like to be in contact with the Soul of Celtic

For those few seconds on Saturday there was no thought of politics, Resolutions, the Celtic Trust, Sevco, the 5WA, SPFL, Celtic Plc, Dermot, the Lawwells and the other layers of baggage that deny us our birthright.

To even commit pen to paper and write about it, comes across as an attempt to manipulate that spirit. It’s beyond words and concepts.

It’s that imprinted memory of thoughtless joy and oneness that keeps us coming back.

We all know that even the Scottish media had Rangers dead and buried and somehow the suits managed to sell the continuity nonsense.

We all know that the referees and playing to an agenda.

Most know that an ex-Energy Minister and member of the PLC has been earning a moldy crust writing about the Cambo oil field for months.

Some know that senior executives of the PLC past and present have backgrounds in the energy sector.

We all know that the PLC have surrounded themselves by human shields.

Most know that 5 Members of the Executive of the Celtic Trust must come from the Supporters Association.

Most know that the process of proxy voting limits individual voting rights and carries responsibilities about attendance at AGMs.

Most know that the Celtic Trust somehow recruited a Chairman who had previously been involved with the Rangers Trust and also a Director in a company with the Ibrox Financial Director at the centre the subject matter of Resolution 12/13.

Life is too short to waste it in the labyrinth of self-centered of politics that surrounds football. It’s far better just to live for those precious thoughtless moments.

The Celtic Trust do valuable work. It’s just not capable of doing what some of us would like it to do. Undoubtedly there are many dedicated and decent folk doing their best there.

They deserve gratitude and credit. Part of the trouble is, Celtic’s Soul was divided into shares – that act cannot be undone.

Old Firmisim is such an attractive notion to financial and political elite. No matter what the Trust achieves, it’s the duality of the Old Firm that enslaves us.

Controlling and monetising the peasantry via Old Firmisim is like taking candy off a baby.

We chase those silent, soulful moments, no matter what it costs. The tragedy is that the chase is unnecessary. What we’re looking for is under our noses.

Thanks Chris for your efforts. All the best at the AGM, you’ve highlighted the difficulties very well.

Till later.

McCaff

Great article, Chris. The Trust have shown themselves to be anything but. The appointment of David Low turned out to be a major faux pas and a lot of rebuilding is now required.
SES… fantastic response, you must have been up early!!
My own thoughts…it’s too heavy, too early as I’m still on a major high after Saturday.

McCaff

TGM… superb also!!

McCaff

…and as for Big Sutton! Legend!! 🤣🤣🤣

CFC

“Celtic’s soul was divided into shares” …over 125 years ago. For investment, to keep Celtic competitive, we have always been monetised.
It is naive to think differently.

Otherwise we could gone the way of a Renton or
Vale of Leven etc.

For a membership scheme to have any traction, some key questions need to be clarified for me.

What are its aims?
How is it constituted?
In whose interests does it act?
To whom is it accountable?

I’m mystified by the failure of the Trust to gain massive support among,what I thought were mostly anti-establishment Celtic supporters who as exemplified by the club’s very existence are activists.

Back in the day I was enthused with the idea of the fans having a representative and a voice and following a meeting in the Merchant City made contact with Sean Hammil to offer my assistance.

He composed a letter to shareholders asking them to join and I set up a mail-merge, printed and provided postage paid envelopes to about 4k shareholders, at a cost of much work and a few grand! The response though was poor and run into a few hundred.

I later did a similar exercise to a smaller number with Jeanette Findlay, Marie McCusker with similar results.

I am truly at a loss to understand the faiure of the Trust to take off big time.

The people I dealt with as a supporter were all good. Sean, Jeanette, Marie, as well as the late Peter Carr and Charlie Johnstone were all true Celts with good intentions.

Perhaps we only get our act together when the team is doing badly and the banks are threatening liquidation?

I still hope that some young activist comes along and takes the job and gives ordinary fans a real voice.

The Bulkshareholder lists now only give names so this will make the task of mailing harder and emailing would be the way to go.

Awe Naw

That´s me offski

https://youtu.be/lIAOS7rTazA

Mind and watch those fingernails and cheer on Eintracht

hasta la vista!, adiós!

I´ll be back

Auldheid

Good to see comments relating to the CST. They are thought provoking. Please keep them coming.

I’ve thoughts of my own based on lessons learned pursuing Res12/11 for 8 years but I’m thinking they might be best aired in a separate blog.

A lot of time has passed since the early days and some of the thoughts that led to the CST existing perhaps need thought again.

Same applies to Celtic as the support are much more aware of the environment the club is trapped in.

Bawheid

I obtained the full list of Celtic plc ordinary shareholders, all 28,335 off them, on the 21st. October 2021.

Their names, addresses and the number of Celtic shares that they hold. It was my intention to pass them on to the Celtic Supporters Trust, purely because of Auldheid’s involvement with them. When they betrayed Auldheid’s request to act on his Resolution I decided to keep a hold of the list. He, is the only person that I would trust to use that information for the good of the Celtic support.

Auldheid

Bawheid
I obtained the full list of Celtic plc ordinary shareholders, all 28,335 off them, on the 21st. October 2021.

Their names, addresses and the number of Celtic shares that they hold. It was my intention to pass them on to the Celtic Supporters Trust, purely because of Auldheid’s involvement with them. When they betrayed Auldheid’s request to act on his Resolution I decided to keep a hold of the list. He, is the only person that I would trust to use that information for the good of the Celtic support.
==============
That is incredibly useful and helpful to know. No e mail addresses I take it?

bada bing1

Bawheid- be careful not to breach GDPR Guidelines, about passing on email addresses etc mate.

Craig76
Bawheid

Bada – Wise advice, one that I keep in mind at all times. The instructions are clearly defined, I am not allowed to disclose the names and addresses because I obtained them for ‘research’ purposes only. That doesn’t stop me though from advising on how to obtain the shareholder list. Many thanks for reminding me though.

Auldheid, unfortunately not, still useful though, it would take many willing hands and with no guarantee of success, Tom’s worthy efforts bear that out.

Auldheid

Bawheid
Bada – Wise advice, one that I keep in mind at all times. The instructions are clearly defined, I am not allowed to disclose the names and addresses because I obtained them for ‘research’ purposes only. That doesn’t stop me though from advising on how to obtain the shareholder list. Many thanks for reminding me though.

Auldheid, unfortunately not, still useful though, it would take many willing hands and with no guarantee of success, Tom’s worthy efforts bear that out.
=============
I thought not and appreciate Bada’s reminder. Nevertheless it is good to know the number out there. Reaching them is the problem. They need to be given something that will entice them to get involved.

Bawheid

Auldheid, Absolutely, sooner or later that information will be needed. I’m sure that you and your friends will come up with that solution and when you do, you know that I will be happy to help you in any way that I can.

“One man went, went to mow a meadow” and after it was sown, it has to be rolled and that’s my job for the rest of today.
All the best.

Big Packy
Sorry mate, I have had so much going on in the last few days that I completely forgot to wish you and wee Joan a very happy anniversary.
You were a day early and I am a day late, so that should just about even it up….😎

big packy

SOL, no problem pal.👍 yer no getting yer plane back🤩🤩

Craig76
Mahe

Chris, well penned and I wish you every success.
The Celtic support need a strong voice, of that there can be little doubt.

It’s great timing to discuss finding a voice, when many Glasgow residents are abroad on footballing business. There’s a chance the beast emerges, with Celtic, it’s support, all clubs actually, getting dragged into the aftermath.
I hope that doesn’t occur of course, but even still the collective need a body they can trust to speak for them, to the board, each other, and hacks if need be.

In order to mold the Trust into what is needed or hoped for, it’s important to use the existing mechanisms for change given to the bodies members, to test those very mechanisms. It’s important to know they work, and this occasion presents a great opportunity to restore faith in the bodies articles of constitution, while showing it’s membership it can be democratic and capable of change.

It’s very important for any handing over of the reigns to be non hostile. Those who have put time and effort into the venture should always feel appreciated, even if they are being asked to step aside. It’s business not personal, as the old movie said.

It’s equally important for those being asked to step aside to do so without malice, without digging in their heels. A fully functional organization sells itself, doing what it says on the tin. The Trust has suffered allegations of personalities enhancing their status through leading the group, a big no no.

Im not a member, but not against joining at all. I suppose like many I would like someone I know but that’s not a deal breaker, more peace of mind.

I would like to see,,,

A sliding scale of dues to become a member, for instance the elderly and unemployed asked for a token sum in order to join, such as ten pounds per annum.

A sub committee formed to increase membership numbers. They would visit supporter websites and push folk to join pointing out goals and potential benefits.

All head committee meetings recorded with the audio/video available to every member. Helps improve transparency and increase actual trust in the Trust.

Set terms for leadership positions. Nobody should be in situ for long years, giving the impression of a fiefdom.

Members polled on current issues, their response determining the direction of the Trusts efforts. Not the leadership tackling issues they identified, but acting upon member concerns as a rule.

There’s thousands if not millions of Tims out there, with a lot of different skill sets among them. Harnessing these skills and getting some voluntary labour could greatly benefit the Trust. Your own background in communication for example is extremely useful, and could have many uses.

Of course not everyone fancies sticking their head above the parapet, leading is not for everyone and can have negative consequences, such as address leaked or publicly harassed. However, to me anyway, it’s not essential to reside full time in Scotland in order to help guide the organization. Overseas based supporters can just as easily manage the bread and butter stuff, and fully communicate with the membership. Of course there will be meetings held in Bonnie Scotland, and some of the executive committee shall need to attend these meetings. But being a non resident should still enable one to join the executive committee. Realistically, three Glasgow based supporters upon the exec committee is enough to fulfill physical appointments.

I fully support efforts to rejig the CT, and wish you every success in that venture. One day we shall need representation, and it offers the best opportunity to date.
The supporters can either take an existing body and fix it as you propose or create a new one without the baggage.
The former is easier, it’s wise to attempt a reshape rather than a new venture.

I hope a new look Trust emerges from your efforts, and I dare say they have many recruits among these pages.
Thanks for your efforts Chris. Sincerely.

Hail Hail

The Gombeen Man

The Celtic support is much more conservative than many think. It’s a product of social, educational and religious conditioning.

The security of the status quo is the preferred option for most.

I’m not criticising that, it’s just my perception.

Chairbhoy,

Sorry for not responding to your post on Friday. I was enjoying the Title win and thought I’d wait until things settled down a little.

It’s ironic that on the eve of the Europa League Final, elsewhere, Celtic supporters are being asked to debate money making tours and marketing deals.

Money is needed we all get that, but we’ve lost sight of the fact that Celtic are about football, not money, not egos or not shaping the political opinion of the diaspora.

I saw you debating Eddie Howe. His reason for deciding not to come was confirmed elsewhere last week. Howe didn’t think the job was possible without his backroom staff. When leaks appeared about Eddie Howe being happy to work with the existing staff at Lennoxtown, things went sour.

It’s really is embarrassing to watch the usual suspects squabbling about who discovered or who phoned Ange. It’s like watching a group of kids trying to get a Selfie with the latest pop star.

Project Old Firm reached its zenith this week.

Pedro’s miracle, the Continuity Myth is bound to have caught the eye of executives of debt ridden clubs at the European Clubs Association.

Would other European jurisdictions buy into the Scottish solution? The dumping of £100+ of debt and the avoidance of the consequences?

-I doubt it.-

Celtic have local bragging rights and entry to the CL. Sevco have 150 years under their belt, two Cup Finals and plenty of European wonga coming their way.

By and large the Celtic support are onboard. SBs and merchandise are selling like hotcakes.

Celtic supporters are in an invidious position. Walk away and leave the spoils to Sevco or keep coughing up to be shortchanged by folk that have been misleading them for years?

About 70% of all football related posts, I see reference, Huns, Rangers or Sevco. Job done.

The EBT’s forgotten, the Creditors, the attempts to bring a notion of credibility back to the game via Res12/13 conveniently sidelined.

It’s also ironic that Sevco supporters are marching behind drums in Seville chanting about the UVF and Bobby Sands.

That is the real fruit of ‘Pedro’s’ labours, not a panicked phone call after Eddie said, ‘No thanks’ .

Not an iota of legitimate governance. Up to their knees in court cases and back in their PLC delivered ascendancy.

The Police briefings in the last couple of weeks will have been interesting. I don’t think the Spanish poilce are likely to be as sympathetic to the hooliganism of the Ibrox fraternity.

The Sevco mentality is used to getting its own way with the football authorities, police, courts and media.

It’s easy to be a hardman when there’s a Peeler watching your back.

SPFL/SFA – Old Firmisim is now at UEFA’S door, courtesy of failed governance and corruption.

Scotland’s ugly sectarian secret is on the loose and likely to go viral…

https://youtu.be/_WkA6eCCmoI

Rebus67

What is your reaction to Sevco playing in the Europa final? Is it at all like my own?

Firstly, let us look at what it should be. If Aberdeen, Hibs or Dundee Utd reached a European final would you be pleased? Personally, I would be delighted because it would signal significant growth in Scottish football. Not only would our game’s coefficient be boosted but it would prove that we had a truly competitive league. Further I would watch the final fervently hoping for a Scottish victory.

However, it is not Aberdeen, Hibs etc in the final. It is Sevco……the newest club in the SPL. Personally, that changes the equation but why? Surely you should support a Scottish team playing against a foreign team, especially in a final?

Somehow that is far from the reality. Is it purely jealousy? In my case, I think not. I do not care what other Scottish teams win, only what Celtic can achieve. Perhaps, it is fear. Fear that Sevco will obtain substantial funding from a Europa win and invest in their team. This is a very real possibility and Yes, it is a concern. Sevco spend money they do not have, what would they be like if they actually had funds? Would Celtic match their spending? After all, we are going into the group stages of the CL for sure. History would suggest the answer is No.

Could it be because Sevco represents Protestant interests versus Catholic…..the old sectarian divide? Again in my case, that is unlikely. I was raised in the former and have no interest in promoting one faith over the other. For me, spirituality is a unique personal journey not attached to any organised religion. The Cathars seemed to have understood that and were destroyed because of it.

However, I do condemn a club that punished players and fans for any association with Catholics. The appointment of Gerrard would suggest that there has been some positive movement away from that particular bias. Sadly, it is not embraced by much of the support. Any fanbase that has a slogan suggesting that they are THE people lacks empathy for those that are different from them.

In these jottings I posed a question which I cannot answer, completely. However, I feel my rationale for not wanting this Scottish team to triumph is tied up with the concept of fairness. Sevco is an organisation that has thrived on privilege and preferential treatment from those who govern our game and those that referee it. I would include even those that finance it. That level of bias is simply not healthy in any organisation or sport.

The best that I can hope for is that both the game and the result pass off without violent incident.

Rebus

Craig76

Today’s article getting promoted on Videocelts Twitter

https://twitter.com/videocelts/status/1526551429682548742?s=20&t=wDwwnYJaF-lUPim49jp8Tw

big packy

THE GOMBEEN MAN, regards that video, what a bunch of bigoted sectarian bassas, god help the people of seville,

Auldheid

Craig76
Today’s article getting promoted on Videocelts Twitter

https://twitter.com/videocelts/status/1526551429682548742?s=20&t=wDwwnYJaF-lUPim49jp8Tw

E Tim’s have referred to it too.

Auldheid

Rebus

Another thoughtful post.

What sticks in my craw is their refusal as a body to accept they cheated.

If it was a card table they would not have been invited back.

What also sticks in my craw is being treated as an idiot by imbeciles and that includes the PL Celtic. Board.

It is the latter whose thinking we can change.

Chris McGachy

Replying to a number of responses in the thread. My instinct is that the Trust is not reformable with the present leadership in charge. They have no nous for direction, leadership or change. They have shown that in the past year. Despite a call for new blood and professional, expert input, they soon revert back to ‘smoke filled rooms’ to make decisions. They are scared to engage with members to start dialogue, outwith formal meetings which are not the place to devise either policies positions, campaigns or strategy. I was told in no uncertain terms they wouldn’t participate in the new forum (which the now want to close as they realise the potential the membership has to discuss and co-ordinate).
There is no template for successful fan groups but there are other examples, such as Spirit of Shankly at or the 1892 pledge at Newcastle. The Trustees were asked to speak to other Trusts about tactics. Not apparent they have done so.
But for me they don’t do the basics correctly. Members newsletters, constitution and minutes on the website, position papers, engagement, visibility, forum discussions, promotional material and reaching out to supporters clubs; agitating for real representation in the CSA where shareholders and membership could be the reward.
But ultimately it boils down to the mindset and the people running it who bank members money, take them for granted and do their own thing. The are rowing the boat with no compass. They need to remember first of all that they are a membership organisation for shareholders. Their core objectives is be percentage shareholding and membership numbers. And all activities should to improve that.
The Trust has spurned the best opportunity to make the Trust relevant after the 10 was lost. And they will spurn the next opportunity unless they get the basics right.
As I say the Trust has a personality disorder. If it’s just a shareholders trust. Spell that out. I believe it could be a much bigger organisation capable of united the vast majority of fans. And 60,000 fan members paying £1 would bring in the same income as the current 1000 paying £5. Again I asked them to look at membership models as part of a leadership strategy.
But the visibility and clout would be so much stronger. The truth is that the Trust has the potential to be THE pivotal organisation to bring the Celtic fan family together against the PLC board. But those running it lack the organisational and management skills and desire to make it happen.

Prestonpans bhoys

Chris McGachy

I’ll be honest and say I know not a thing about this Trust, so on these pages is an education for me !!

Just to say that the formation and attitude of those Trust committee members seem to resemble a certain PLC which I and many more on this blog, well I’ll be straight to the point, hate and detest😕

Rebus67

Auldheid,

I envy your location, near Malaga. I dream of getting back there. I would risk travel but my wife has a heart condition that justifiably scares her against foreign travel. Foreign vacations may be a thing of the past.

Yes, cheating seems to be part of the Rangers/Sevco ethos.

On further reflection, my attitude towards that club is not unique to Sevco/Celtic rivalry.

One time I was in Malaga I watched Barcelona play an English team in the CL. The rest of the bar, who were smoking hookahs, were supporting the English team. When I queried that they said anyone but Barca.

There is no love in Malaga for Barcelona. In my favourite restaurant, Lo Gueno, they even dropped my fav dessert, Creme Catalan because it referenced Catalonia.

I guess it is part of the human condition.

Rebus

jimthetim53

I wish Auldheid & Chris were involved in running the Trust. I would re-join it immediately!

Margaret McGill

I’ve said this before.
The Celtic PLC is a corporate dictatorship.
The Celtic Trust is essentially a Union.
The MO of the PLC is to make money for its major shareholders not the plebs, whose shares are worthless like the ones you would get in unions.Unions are always squabbling because the members are arguing over a relative pittance, fees, voting, infighting, and who sits at the table. Easy for corporations to dismember. The Celtic Trust is a dead duck.
Ive told you a 100 times that the solution is not to give them your money but that’s water of a dead ducks arse.
Of course I’ll be very interested in anything that comes out of today’s AGM.

Chris McGachy

For anyone thinking that membership and influence cant be achieved, here’s the Hibs Trust. https://hiberniansupporters.co.uk/about-us/. 4,000 contributors and more than half a million raised.

Margaret McGill

The Hibs trust is probably more trustworthy.
However, if the Celtic trust like the HIBS trust wants to give the Celtic PLC more money I am sure the PLC will welcome them with open arms.
Until the check clears.

SeS

Maggs- paragraph summary 👏🏻

jimthetim53

I’m no big fan of Hearts but their supporters pored a huge amount of money in to help keep them afloat and now it is a fan owned club!
“On 30 August 2021, Ann Budge officially transferred the clubs shares to the Foundation of Hearts, meaning Hearts officially became the biggest fan owned club in the United Kingdom.[168]”

The full story of how they did it is on Wiki. Not a comparison with Celtic’s situation but the main point is fans getting together and taking action!

SeS

Chris – that’s one huge mountain to climb buddy – best wishes.

Prestonpans bhoys

Just saw a clip from videocelts showing huns singing that 10 bombers song, now if I was them I wouldn’t sing that anywhere near the German’s, especially their Ultras😱😵

SFTB

I see that Twitter has identified the Tory MP who was suspended on rape allegations- not surprised to see he is one of the ERG group of Tory Bastards

If anyone is unfortunate enough to share a workplace with a Hun, and they ask if you are going to watch the game. Just reply saying ‘No, I’ll watch the highlights later on CRIMEWATCH.’

HH

No Celtic supporters group, CT, CSA, AICSC, GB, etc, are prepared to indicate to the PLC that the nuclear option(season ticket boycott) will always be on any negotiating table.
Its like telling those that your negotiating with that you don’t have the balls to replace the PLC executive if they breach any conduct thresholds, in other words no matter how foul the PLC becomes the Celtic supporters groups will ensure financial backing.
That mindset – sucks.
Indeed if the PLC had to be replaced it must never be on a buy out basis, how can you buy out a billionaire?
Trying to buy out the PLC is to play by the present rules which sees Celtic FC without a shred of ethics, integrity, or principles.
And what does that say about season ticket holders who financially back such an ethics less, integrity less, and unprincipled Celtic FC?
And if the club had to be regime changed, surely NONE of the present season ticket holders supporter base who’ve practically lived on their knees financing this corruption since 2012 can ever be in charge of a new Celtic regime changed club, after 53,000 of them walked off of the pitch, the self preservationists DAY OOT FIRST brigade, and left AULDHEID, CANAMALAR, MORRISSEY, BRTH, etc, to fight a Celtic PLC board of great white sharks, instead of CT, CSA, IACSC, GB, and mainstream season ticket holders ALL OF THEM, COMRADES ALL, marching up the Celtic Way threatening to DEFUND the balance sheet until
Res12/11, 5WA, Trophy Stripping, etc had all been positively executed by the PLC custodians of Celtic FC?
AULDHEID, CANAMALAR, MORRISSEY, BRTH, etc, should be the new regime changed Celtic FC executive imho.
If you don’t present consequences of executive failure to the PLC custodians then you won’t be taken seriously.
You’re defeated before you even sit down to negotiate.
Celtic supporters buying shares is a waste of time and money.
1. Supporters can buy as many shares as they like, but the controlling PLC sharks will always bring in new blocking mechanisms to keep supporters from reaching positions of influence, if you think they won’t then you are the problem, not the PLC, the PLC are sharks who are merely doing what sharks do, eating your asses off.
2. Shares are Tory contraptions, like all seated football stadiums are also.
Do you think that governments give a stuff about your safety?
If they did, why would they remove the protective red tape that was keeping the Grenfell Tower citizens safe?
The governments performances worldwide over the past 2 years have underlined that they actually prefer you to be unsafe giving out untested pharmaceutical products and witch hunting those who resisted.
Shares were the construct that created all of the bitterness with the Kelly’s and White’s, new names on the main shareholders door doesn’t deal with the rigged executive system that the Kelly’s and White’s used to retain all of the power, a system which we were told would never be seen inside Parkhead ever again post 1994, I’d argue that the shareholding power structure is even more hideous almost 30 years later.
The club is run as far as I see from season ticket monies and player sales, just like Hearts FC is, only Hearts is controlled by supporters, can’t Celtic be run like that?
So what do directors do with all of the share issue monies?
Money being spent by our manager isn’t an issue, utilising that money, or the players purchased by that financial outlay, could and should have been a concern for supporters after our dismal displays in the European qualifying rounds, dismissed from 3 competitions, saying Ange arrived later is a stupid reason for being dismissed from 3 European competitions, no improvement on NFL in that regard, locally winning the title and league cup were brilliant achievements by Ange, but we sell ourselves as a CL club don’t we? Ange trying to implement a new playing system during financially lucrative qualifiers was naive for such an experienced boss who should’ve known that you don’t drive with ‘L’ plates on the fast lanes of the motorway, he should’ve been cautious until he found his feet, unless the PLC told him he wouldn’t be judged on Euro qualifiers, in which case the PLC shouldn’t have charged supporters any admission money into a series of qualifiers which the PLC had already waved, if they did? Who knows.
Anyway, imho nothing will change at Celtic until bitter defeat on the pitch accompanied by the continuation of Celtic PLC old firm collusion behind the scenes, (which 53,000 have financed since 2012) utterly sickens season ticket holders to the point were they realise that they have to withdraw their financial backing of the club and restructure it, but that process will be very messy as, imho, the vast majority of Celtic season ticket holders are self preservationists, they will preserve their individual enjoyment and self centeredness before the integrity of Celtic becomes an issue for them if at all, but self-centered fulfilment is the gold for 53,000, which they deem important enough to be preserved over all and ABOVE all else as the 53,000 have Succulently proved since 2012, leaving, AULDHEID, CANAMALAR, MORRISSEY, BRTH, to put out the fires of corruption whilst 53,000 self preservationists did what they do best of all, put their DAY OOT FULFILMENT above Celtic FC’s integrity which is a bad look.
Serious Celtic supporters would NEVER have financially backed such a fraudulent PLC.
That 53,000 have done so since 2012 tells me that it was Celtic FC that died.
A PLC custodians board who have colluded with Rangers etc since 2012 would’ve been dragged out of Kerrydale Street kicking and screaming by the Celtic supporters of 1994.
We had 20,00+ crowds and we ruled Europe for a considerable period, supporters with piss dropping off the base of their trousers were called “THE BEST FAN’S IN THE WORLD” by almost everyone outside of Scotland, supporters who loved their club FIRST, sensed danger to the future of Celtic post the ‘TAYLOR REPORT’ commissioned by Thatchers govt to rid football of hooliganism which Maggie struggled to achieve, football was ruined because of bad policing at Hillsborough, nothing to do with hooliganism either, just desperate football supporters struggling to stay alive, and stadiums were all seated when stadiums where required to be and just look at Liverpool fans at EFA cup final on Saturday past, all that money for a seat then doing what football supporters were inclined to do, standing up, Liverpool fans say seating is an unnecessary overreaction to Hillsborough which some of them have now called a psyop after 96 Liverpool souls were lost at Hillsborough in 1989, its now 97 lost Merseyside souls, may they rest in peace. 🙏 🚩🍀
Liverpool fans have changed the going to the game routine for all supporters since 1989, and now demands for “No all seating” it came from the main victims families mouths in Liverpool, they MUST BE LISTENED TO!
The celebration’s etc for Ange and his players, and Celtic supporters backing was well deserved and well done to all. ⚽🏆🍀🎆👏
What cannot be celebrated is the FACt that Celtic FC is a club that, stands for nothing and falls for everything.
Only supporters can change the image of corrupt, collusionist, pro old firm, not saying the words Rangers or old firm, but sneakily, under the table retention of 2012 prices for tickets for old firm games in 2016, on Rangers return to the top flight, and these tickets being purchased by Celtic season ticket holders who then went into the Broomloan Road stand in December 2016, after paying old firm prices for, old firm tickets and sang “YOU’RE NOT RANGERS ANYMORE” was dumbfkery of the 33rd ° it really was.
I don’t see a single Celtic supporters leader who could not offer to buy out Celtic PLC, but to starve them out by refusing to back corruption and maintain your self respect and integrity, a supporters leader who’s integrity would capture the hearts and minds of the supporter base and implement Celtic executive regime change.
A 2022 version of BRIAN DEMPSEY and MATT MCGLONE.
The CT can’t be trusted and a bus load of holy joes won’t win the battle of the swamp.
No offence to holy joes.
The CSA wtf? 👎
The GB sing about every rebel who’s ever been born then they fall to their knees and finance dodgy Irish Tories at season ticket renewal time NO MATTER THE LEVELS OF COLLUSION.
No Celtic supporters group or individual has the balls to stand up to PLC jiggery Pokery, old firm tickets prices collusion, Res12/11, 5WA, Trophy Stripping, etc, etc.
Corrupt as fk PLC led corporations are fking up the whole world.
Celtic are led by a corrupt as fk PLC.
A corrupt as fk PLC that runs Celtic FC – with Celtic season ticket holders monies and player sales etc?
Why do 53,000 allow this?
Why?
Are Celtic now supported by supporters like those of most other clubs, yes we are, no unique magical Celtic club status anymore, just a group of 53,000 supporters who don’t give a flying monkeys as long as we’re champions of the parochial old firm swamp.
Toodaloo.

Prestonpans bhoys

CT

Wife said, what happens if ‘rangers’ (sic) don’t riot. I just looked at her, anyway link to a local paper may be interesting on Thursday

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/category/andalucia-news/sevilla/

big packy

KEVJ /toodaloo great post, straight from the heart.,HAIL HAIL

jimthetim53

Toodaloo, in all honesty, difficult to argue with that!

1 2 3