It’s A Man’s Game?
There’s a small comment from Martin Samuel in Tuesday’s Daily Mail about Emma Hayes,the manager and coach of Chelsea’s ladies football team. That she must be wondering-what if?-as she watches England’s ladies team take their place on the world stage.
He points out that on two separate occasions,the role as England manager was hers for the asking,but she asked on both occasions not to be considered.
So what,you might say? What the hell do I care about women’s football? Or even their opinions about it,what do they know? Etc,etc,etc…
You all know my sister who posts on here,and a good few of you know her in person too. Not only the top scorer in the ladies league in South London for seven seasons-so she can walk the walk as well as talk the talk—that is one lady who knows her stuff when it comes to the game. SOLKITTS and I took her to her first game when she was about 10yo,and she couldnae wait! Everything on the way to the game was Charlie this,Charlie that.
One look at the sublime talents of Paul McStay and everything changed utterly!
Aye,seems that women know their stuff,and in the forty years since,that girl has pointed out quite a few things to me that I might otherwise have missed. Football-wise too!
So when I tuned in one Wednesday night to Radio 5 to listen to a Champions League commentary-this was about six years ago-imagine my utter shock at hearing a bliddy woman doing the co-commentary! And,oh my God,the glottal stops-this is the BBC,have standards slipped so much?!!!
It was Emma Hayes,and I had never even heard of her before. No idea who she was. But honestly,even via a radio broadcast,she transported me to the match. Her description of the flow was unbelievable. But it was her tactical analysis that struck me most. The right back has the winger in his pocket,he should switch sides,the Centre mid is slow on the turn,the keeper isn’t commanding the box. You name it,she saw it. Glottal stop anaw,I could listen to her discussing even just this one game for as long as she wanted.
We had a discussion on here a few days ago about whether women should be allowed to compete alongside the men in football. If yer good enough,yer good enough. And my Dad always said that if ATHINGOFBEAUTY had baws,she’d have played for Celtic! So too,btw,would another Ayrshire lass,Rose Reilly. I’m probably embarrassing my kid sis by saying that,so I apologise. But the point is valid for the bigger point,and the main thrust of this article.
I don’t think women can compete on the field at the same level as men. Not yet,though it will come. But Emma Hayes? There’s a top level coaching position in the men’s game which will be hers,and the club which has the sense to reach for her will be all the better for it.
*^*^*^*
Above article by BMCUWP
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11029901/Julian-Nagelsmann-takes-aim-Barcelona-confirmation-Robert-Lewandowskis-transfer.html
Or,
https://sentinelcelts.com/2022/07/12/the-magic-money-tree/
Good morning all from Govanhill. Many thanks for all the messages regarding Ustath. Picking up my winnings today and may have a small celebration. There will be a meeting of old drunks in the Shipbank tomorrow at 1pm. All welcome no exceptions. 👍🍻
Bobby
Interesting article, some of which I cannot argue with but one point which I most definitely cannot agree with. On Emma Hayes, I must confess I’m ignorant to her talent but clearly she’s impressed you and that’s good enough for me. I did Google her after reading your article and she’s most definitely a well respected lady both for her ability as a coach and as a person.
Will a top EPL club, or indeed a championship club ever appoint a lady as coach? Almost certainly it’ll happen and I’d both welcome it and look forward to following her progress.
ATOB’s record in the London league you referenced also speaks for itself, obviously a real talent. If the womens game had been as popular and gained the kind of coverage it does today, then I’m pretty sure she’d be known to anyone with an interest in the womens game.
The aspect of the article I’ve got to disagree with is
“ I don’t think women can compete on the field at the same level as men. Not yet,though it will come”
I’m not sure it’ll ever come Bobby. This is where I risk the wrath of some but I simply do not think that will happen. Physically disadvantaged to compete on a level playing field. Oh I’m sure there may be the odd female who could compete in the lower division of the mens game but I honestly don’t see the general standard ever reaching the level it would need to in order to compete.
Hope Powell who coached England made this statement when asked a few years ago if the ladies team could compete with their male counterparts :
“Absolutely we could beat them, why not? I think physically the guys are obviously a lot stronger than the women, but with technical ability I think we’re as good as the men and we’d give it a really good go”
My reaction at the time was that the statement was utter nonsense, they couldn’t compete, and they would lose by probably 20 goals plus.
My opinion now is that the ladies game has undoubtedly progressed but the scoreline I forecast then wouldn’t have changed much.
I’ve been watching the Euros. Last night I thought the standard was vg, and has dramatically improved over the last few years, but the lack of physicality relevant to the men, is still very evident, and I truly believe will never reduce to a level that would see them get remotely close to their male counterparts.
None of this is a criticism of the ladies game. It’s become much more entertaining, and that’s great to see. I’m certain it’ll grow even more on popularity and again, that’s welcome, but in terms of the level relative to the men I see it no different to Tennis, Golf, cycling etc. I simply don’t ever see the top ladies getting close enough to the top men to get anywhere near them, never mind beat them.
It’s nature. Physical differences that I believe are insurmountable. Power and strength.
I’ll add a final point that will no doubt land me in trouble :
IF – I say – IF, there comes a time when women are PHYSICALLY BUILT to compete on a level playing field with the men, I don’t think I want to be around to see them 😬
My daughter who played for Cumbernauld Cosmos, Falkirk Ladies and Glasgow City from 94 to around 2006 was pretty adept at spotting players and analysing games.
When I asked who the wee blond haired nyaff controlling Leicester City’s midfield was she could tell me it was Neil Lennon and agreed he would be good at Celtic.
Those early women’s football years saw me traipese from EK to Bridgeton to Maryhill , Bellshill and on to Cumbernauld then to Paris to London Wembley to watch my kid play , so I’m a big fan of women’s football and enjoyed the Englland v Spain match last night.
It is a bit different from the mens game physically but the technique is excellent and you get some great goals like England’s winner.
As a social vehicle it is free by comparison with the testosterrone driven men’s game producing an environment that is free from some of the toxicity associated with the mens game
We guys could learn from it.
Good morning, friends.
Bobby, the subject of your article is a valid debating point even though it comes on the day where I’m about to promote next season’s MAN of the match competition!!
Post coming up after my cornflakes…….
BRRB
Enjoy yer winnings! I’d a nice wee touch of it myself so tyvm for the heads up. Fell’s horses running well at the minute.
*** PLAYER OF THE YEAR 2022-23 ***
**COMPETITION STARTING ON 31 JULY**
I’ve been encouraged to relaunch something that I used to do under the umbrella of CQN – an exercise to determining the Player Of The Year for the forthcoming season in real time. No end of season nominations but instead a game by game voting system.
My idea hasn’t changed and certainly isn’t rocket science – I will simply collate each of your individual opinions on who our best 3 players are on a game by game basis. You don’t need to decide which player was best, next best etc. Instead, just decide which 3 players (in no particular order) impressed you most for any given match. All three of your nominations will then have received a ‘vote’. I then tally up the total votes from everyone who takes part for that match and the player who gets the highest votes gets the Man Of The Match award and earns 5 JOBO POINTS. The runner up will get 4, next gets 3, then 2, then 1.
Of course, you don’t need to worry about the detail. All you have to do is nominate 3 players.
And how do you vote? Simply by sending me an email to SENCELPOTY@GMAIL.COM . You don’t have to explain your thinking or make specific detailed comments. All I need is an email from you, short and sweet along the lines of “Hi, for the Aberdeen game my 3 picks are Auld, Chalmers and Lennox”. And neither do you have to vote after every single game – just the ones that you actually attend or watch. Your votes remain confidential – unless you decide to mention on the blog or elsewhere who you went for. But there will be no leaks from me, I promise!
For each game voting opens after the final whistle and remains open until 10.00pm the following evening. I’ll do my best to then tally up the votes and post the results on here usually before 10.30pm.
For the first few games I’ll stick out regular reminders on the blog as each game comes around. You don’t need to sign up or commit to anything, and you don’t need to vote on every game (please just do so for those games that you actually see the whole 90 minutes!). Also, there’s absolute zero cost involved although, equally there are no prizes on offer!
Absolutely anyone is welcome to join in, whether you post on here, post elsewhere or just lurk. And feel free to encourage friends, family etc to join in too, whether regularly or just after certain games. Remember everyone’s opinion is equally valid and everyone’s votes carry the very same weight. If anyone wants to mention or promote this on any other sites I’m absolutely fine with that – copy and paste till your heart’s content! The game by game results will only be posted on Sentinel Celts but, again, I’ve no problem if they are then copied elsewhere.
This is really just a wee bit of fun to maybe give us another topic to discuss as the weeks go on. And I think that it gives a much fairer, real time assessment of how players are performing rather than just looking back at the year end. As the competition develops, I expect to notice certain trends – maybe players that didn’t catch the eye early season then developing into regular vote winners and vice versa.
So the competition will cover every competitive first team game during season 2022-23 starting with our Flag Day visit from Aberdeen.
Finally, if anyone has any other thoughts, ideas or just wants to check their email works please feel free to contact me at SENCELPOTY@GMAIL.COM . You might get an ‘automatic reply’ but I’ll try and send a more personal one over the coming days.
Thanks for reading this far.
Jobo
Twisty
Gordon Strachan – from memory- is quoted as saying ” the team that tackles hardest , runs fastest and jumps highest ( not necessarily in that order) wins.
I think that applies in the football men v football women debate, certainly if it is a full women team v men, perhaps less so if it is individual ladies breaking through.
The second England goal was a mix of power and technique, where the player got her full body off the ground allowing a strong follow through on the ball, so there are circumstances under which there is an element of equality but in general I think Strachan is right.
Auldheid
I agree .
To be frank I don’t understand why many feel the ladies game needs to seen to be equal to the mens game in certain respects.
I’m not talking money either. That’s a different argument. If the ladies game becomes ‘equal’ to the mens in popularity, in attracting sponsorship etc, then certainly the rewards should reflect that.
That applies across all sports.
There’s an element of men being seen as sexist for expressing opinions such as my opinion this morning. I’m not saying that womens sport isn’t as competitive as mens, or isn’t as important, I’m simply expressing an opinion that they can’t be seen as being able to compete v each other across most sports.
Horse racing may be a vg example of whereby the physicality differences do not matter so much. Jockeys tend to be slightly built and the likes of Rachel Blackmore, Holly Doyle, and several others are showing that if the physical differences aren’t too great then they can compete on level terms with the men.
The sport which would demonstrate the opposite would be boxing. Does anyone feel they’d like to see women boxers compete v men? I very much doubt it. For obvious reasons. In fact – going slightly off course for a moment- but on a similar theme- this gender identification topic that’s currently rife, throws up other questions.
Will Tyson Fury now be able to say he now identifies as a woman and be allowed to box a female? Ridiculous sounding I agree but believe it or not there are some out there who say he should be able to do so if he wishes. Another debate for another day, but the point I’m trying to emphasise is that the physical make up of men and women is critical in certain sports and the sooner that is accepted the better.
TWISTY,AULDHEID
I certainly didn’t mean for the article to be controversial re the prospects of women playing at the top level,and I certainly understand the physical differences while being able to appreciate the subtleties and nuances of the beautiful game when played as it should be played.
But then,we rarely see men of colour being given their chance at management,so maybe I’m kidding myself on when I say that Ms Hayes is an appointment crying out to be made.
However,I honestly believe she would be a roaring success.
JOBO
MAHE and I are delighted that you have brought the POTY back,and honoured to have you highlight it here. I’m sure it will be every bit as successful as before. I hope too that lurkers and posters from elsewhere will join in-even if the volume might cause you to lock yourself in a darkened room after every game!
BIGRAILROADBLUES
Well done on yesterday,congratulations. I managed a tidy 11/4 on it. Put some of the weekend’s winnings on it.
How come I can beat the bookie at the weekend,but never with my nap? Dunno the answer to that,but even with the greatest respect to TWISTY and his competition,I’ll happily settle for that status quo!
Bobby
I’d 3 winners at Cartmel on Sat ( I’d 4 actually but one was demoted to second ) and I’d 2 other nice winners across the cards. ( one was a winning nap in the comp for someone)
My competition nap ran nowhere 😁
Nature of the beast eh.
TWISTY
Maybe our wallet concentrates our thinking!
Bobby
I totally agree on your Emma Hayes point. There’s nothing to prevent her being as good or better than a man in that position. I’d relish the chance to witness an appointment like that. Would be a pivotal moment in the game.
TWISTY
16 ROADS is rapidly becoming a “must follow” with his naps. So no pressure for this weekend,Jamesie!
Btw,very disappointing pre-declarations field for The King George on Saturday. Even so,that stone in weight advantage to Emily Upjohn looks like it could seriously count. I hope that the Derby third,current favourite,makes the field to hold the price up. Can’t see it getting close. In fact,with only six runners,there’s a case for Mishriff for the forecast and Broome for anywhere that will accept a tricast.
There you go,that’s my week’s earnings scuppered…
I thought the England team who beat Spain fulfilled the Strachan mantra.
I felt Spain looked more technically savvy but were undone as England started hitting high balls into box and their physically bigger players started to get joy.
England had a physicality that triumphed Spain’s skill.
Was impressed by the skill and technique from both teams and the improvement of the women’s game which has advanced at a rapid pace.
There is room in this world for both men and women games so no need for women to prove themselves against men.
On the coaching front would not be surprised if some women crossover and do a great job.
Maybe it’s just what the Scottish league needs to alter the mindset of the boot and blooter brigade?
FAN
Nothing will stop the boom and blooter brigade in Scotland until the referees and the media stop encouraging it.
BMCUWP
My nephews older boy who was at St Mirren is about to leave for the USA as he has a scholarship to university.
Was asking him about Dylan Reid and he said he was a very good player who could cope with the thuggery permitted by Scottish refs.
He openly said refs were the problem in allowing thuggery to level up gaps in skill.
As you say until we implement a proper refereeing program nothing will change.
The refs like their brethren in the SFA will continue to rot the Scottish game from the inside with zero accountability.
Morning all & Packy.
Would a female coach have to knock the door any time she wanted to go into the player’s changing room? LOL 🙂
Jobo
Great.
I’ll certainly send my votes in for any match I’ve managed to see.
I’ll give you my three tips now for the top 3 over the season. I’ll bookmark my post and be back in May to say “ telt ye”😁
1.O’Reilly
2. Maeda
3. Jota
Do I win anything if I’m correct? Nothing too elaborate? A luxury cruise around the Indian Ocean perhaps?
Jim
We’d a young lass , Kelly, played in my twins’ side at under 13 /14.
Great wee player. She was small in height but powerfully built for her age. She also participated in martial arts and was a hardy wee lass. Many an opponent made the mistake of underestimating her. Believe me she could take it and dish it out.
Re the logistics of sharing a dressing room, it wasn’t too bad. We’d let the lads get ready then whilst they started warm up, she’d get ready then join them. After the match she’d either go home still kitted out on her football stuff, or on particular days of the weather had been bad, she’d quickly get ready whilst the team warmed down.
J B
Look forward to joining in the fun.
SENCELPOTY righty identifies it!
My bookmark three, for what it’s worth:
Calmac
Reo
Kyogo
Interesting article Bobby.
I have never heard of Emma Hayes. I have no interest in women’s football, the same way that I have no interest in darts or snooker.
I’m with Twisty, don’t ever see a women playing in men’s football.
Jobo,
Really looking forward to the SENCELPOTY Competition 🍀🍀
My bookmark 3
Mooy ( Bet you didn’t see that coming )
Gio
Jota
Let the fun begin. 💚
Jobo, great stuff with POTY.
Thanks for taking the time to do this. 👍
After the huns transferred Shirley Bassey, looks like we are after Vera Lynn.
https://www.celticfc.com/news/2022/july/21/celtic-raising-the-bar-with-new-matchday-facilities/
I have to agree with Twisty on this. Women playing in elite-level men’s football or vice versa will not happen. Numerous sports exist where physicality doesn’t play a big part in competitive success and these should be and are open to all irrespective of gender. Most contact sports or sports where a high level of physicality is required do not come into this category. Just look at the hassle and vitriol top female athletes have to put up with trying to ensure their sports – swimming & cycling, for example, remain competitive by objecting to the inclusion of trans athletes.
I suppose there is hope for women joining a mens team when we have the physical attributes of the likes of Micky Johnstone playing. Guy never off his arse 😱😕😂
AFTERNOON ALL and JIM, sorry womens football not for me, if women want to play against women no problem, but men against women, can you imagine a bobo balde type defender against a woman playing on the wing, his job is to stop that player by hook or by crook, imho he would not go in full pelt against a woman ,so that is where the argument falls down, too many problems.attached ,but hey feel free to tell me im wrong,,i have been wrong before you know😎😎
The Temperature of Pre Season Games.
It has been a while since I have ventured away on vacation. When I do, one of my first activities is to check out the sea or nearby swimming pool. In my younger days, I’d jump straight in and enjoy. Now I stick a leg in and assess the temperature first. This cautionary tale reveals whether the water is too cold or too hot, but it does not tell me the actual temp of the water.
And so it is with pre season games! You can tell if the team is in very bad shape, or is absolutely buzzing but not anything in between. And it is the “in between” that is the most likely state as new players bed in.
For this reason, I avoid watching these games. I find them frustrating and a waste of money. Sevco walloped West Ham. Does that mean they would finish amongst the top six in the EPL? Very unlikely.
As competitions, these games mean nothing. Win, lose or draw, they provide little useful info on the upcoming season or on the CL.
No matter what my leg tells me, I usually dive in and enjoy the water, sometimes to my surprise.
Rebus
I’ve been a bit surprised that Snooker hasn’t become more inclusive. No reason for it not to be!
Plenty of women referees in snooker now.
JIM for goodness sake, in snooker you would not have a bobo balde bearing down on you,another true story
I took Bobby’s article to be focused upon women moving into coaching roles in the men’s game. They are already involved in officiating in the EPL. I see no reason why they will not eventually coach at the highest level in the men’s game.
We already have male managers at the highest level who never played at the highest level, e.g Mourinho. So not having experience of the men’s professional soccer should not be a hindrance. The barriers are of a different nature, I am afraid. CelticTV uses a very knowledgable lady as a half time expert and she is usually worth listening to…..not so caught up in the jingoism of ex Celtic players or employees.
Female coaches/managers will happen in the men’s game within the next twenty years and within the lifetime of some on here! Further, they will be successful.
Rebus
REBUS67 with respect, coaching and managing men is a different kettle of fish than playing against them,IMHO
Afternoon all,
If your bored, tonight at 7.00pm on BBC Scotland ,
1988 Scottish Cup Final
Celtic v Dundee Utd 👍
Could be a Classic 🍀🍀🍀🍀
Interesting comments as regards bmcuwp article. First I have to correct him about my record. I could play a bit but was not top scorer in the league 7 seasons running. I liked to play a bit deeper but thanks anyway bro 😂😂
As regards the woman’s game, I am more controversial than any of you guys have been. In my opinion to have top class woman’s football you need a smaller pitch and smaller goals. The physiology of females will never be the same as males so it stands to reason the goalkeepers cannot save as many shots. Auldheid Spoke about the Winning goal for England last night. I saw it this morning and it’s a perfect example. You can talk all you like about the technique, power and accuracy of the shot but a male goalkeeper saves that EVERY time. If you have smaller goals and a smaller park it will increase the already excellent technique and when a goal is scored it will be a worthy goal. Not a shot that goes in the middle of the goal half way up. Now I realise that it’s a logistics issue to have separate women’s pitches but when you are playing at a certain level then that’s what’s needed and clubs should provide it.
As for coaching, I agree with others that there will be a female coach in the lower leagues within twenty years but if they don’t pick the right one it’ll be the last. For me in this role there is no difference in the sexes. Plenty of people can play a good game, plenty of people can talk a good game but a very select few can coach. It’s a specialised skill and takes a mix of huge self belief, knowledge and communication skills. I think it also takes humility but Jose mourinho turns that theory on it’s head!!. So if a female does get a job and it goes wrong, it’ll be a while before another gets a chance.
A really interesting discussion gents . I watched most of the ladies game last night. Ach , sometimes I’d just watch any football. Except pre season friendlies !
The standard of football is to be admired. Comparable ? Not even close.
I have enough worries about Mens Scottish Football. The reason why the sponsors aren’t there ( and a lesser standard of wages / players) is for one reason only : the attendances and tv money.
If more women watched womens sport , then obviously the demand would increase. And with it , the money available.
Don’t drag me into it ladies , I have to keep track of mens sport . Go support ! Watch Coronation Street if you want. Apparently that’s a ladies choice. Ladies have chosen. Good for you!
Having said that , there is no good reason for not having female coaches / managers . Now That’s definitely down to misogyny……
Ffs another post disappears in to the ether. 😡😡
BP,
My post was not about women playing against men. It was about coaching.
Rebus
Rebus
I was specifically referring to Bobby’s comment:
“I don’t think women can compete on the field at the same level as men. Not yet,though it will come”
I genuinely don’t think women will ever compete on the field. I’m speaking in general terms of course. There may be the very rare exception.
ATOB@5:02
Perhaps your brother is taking the piss😱😂😂
On the women football debate, I’ve said before either here or the other channel, that the main problem is the goalkeepers. Mostly too small, look at the corners, always on their line.
I’ve watched about 10 minutes of the woman’s football so far, and been fortunate enough to see two brilliant goals in that space of time – Holland goal, and that England goal last night.
It’s alright for betting over 2.5 goals,or both teams to score a suppose.
No football is worse than South American club football.
Swear there must be a maximum of 15 minutes of actual football played.
Fouls, bookings, stoppages.
There are lots of penalties awarded, however about 50% are missed.
Dire, avoid.
Bobby M – Off to the racing @ Down Royal tomorrow evening, hopefully back a few winners but I’ll be happy if a break even.
All the big stables are sending runners up – Weld, Harrington,Bolger, Lyons, O’Brien & the two sons and Johnny Murtagh.
God bless the green & white.
HH. 🍀🏆
Off topic
Was listening to the wife on the phone there. I heard her say to my daughter who was out buying her something she’d asked her to pick up “ yeah that’s fine. Cheap at half the price”
Its just struck me that phrase makes no sense does it? I mean if you consider something a bargain, surely you’d say “ cheap at double the price” ? No?
Maybe just me missing something very obvious!
I won’t sleep tonight right enough until I get an explanation 😁. These things bother me 😬
16 Roads – best of Irish to you tomorrow. Go gettum.
Slainte Twisty!
HH. 🍀🐎
jimthetim53 and Big Packy I hope you gentlemen are keeping well and are in the very best of health. xx
Although the men are Neandertal louts there is always something particularly classy and fine about the women. It´s one of life’s great everlasting mysteries. When you are wee and stocky and have such thick plated skulls and bushy eyebrows and possess only two looks either one of permanent confusion or one of panic. The first one being the natural state of being. The second one due to fear that she might have actually found the key to the chains and can find out what you are up to. Then it´s not a surprise that the East Whitburn elders wants to play down woman’s football. “They will want their freedom and own bank accounts next” 🙂
I wish Sligo Rovers well tonight against the huns withoot bus fare.