The good thing about being a Celtic supporter is sharing our optimism about a forthcoming match with our fellow Celtic supporters. The downside to that is post-match post-mortem syndrome,and I fear that the only cure for that is to get back to what we were doing so well previously.
On current evidence,we are miles away from that. Our midfield is struggling to hold the line,which is putting too much pressure on an already makeshift defence while strangling the supply to the forward line. The forward line itself is too often hesitant at best when they get the ball,and the final ball to the danger zone is getting poorer by the game. Where’s the previous Angeball urgency,whipping it in across the line at speed?
As for the defence,they try manfully but too often there are gaps between themselves,and also between them and the midfield. It’s an open invitation to a decent counter-attacking side to swarm forward on us while panic ensues all around.
Twice we got a Get Out Of Jail card,courtesy of VAR decisions. Twice we failed to heed the warnings and allowed RB Leipzig to carry on regardless. And then we helped them along with the biggest howler I’ve seen by a Celtic player in many a long year when Joe Hart got himself an assist to gift them a lead which they never looked like surrendering.
I’ve seen it said that 3-1 might not be too bad on the face of it,given the head to head rules. Well,anyone who thinks we will win next week by two clear goals against that side will do well in a future career as Mystig Meg. I saw very little that gave me that kind of optimism tonight,that’s for sure.
If we can’t get our passing game back,our tightness in midfield,our sharpness up front and a desire to be first to every bloody ball,we can forget about progress in Europe. And might well even struggle to grind out the results domestically as well.
If we can’t find a way to deal with sides hitting us on the break,we can look forward too to many more disastrous nights like last night.
Our defence shouldn’t be put in a position where they are constantly fire-fighting. For starters,they aren’t very good at it. And we have four centre backs at the club vying for those two places-none of whom are left-sided! Sometimes it shows worse than others,and last night was just one of those occasions.
I mentioned the other day that perhaps we should be looking at a slightly different formation,where we sacrifice an attacker for a dedicated ball-winning destroyer playing in the gap between our midfield-which is perhaps too attack oriented and thus prone to being caught on the break-and our defence,which is far too often left completely unprotected. I just want someone who can win the ball and pass it five yards to a ball player,nothing fancy!
I honestly think we should look at that,or nights like the one just gone are going to be an unwelcome if frequent occurrence.
Above article by BMCUWP
Napsters follow the link
Totally agree. What happened to Angeball? We were pedestrian and our defensive weaknesses were exposed. Big Jock converted players into different positions e.g. Bobby Murdoch and others. Maybe Tony Ralston should be trained up to also be a CB?
A lot of hand wringing on here since the game changer- the JH gaffe.
Those advocating Craig Gordon would never have got their wish. Useless with the ball at feet. Much worse than JH in that respect. Ange would have replaced him pronto, so forget that.
Perhaps it is time to see what BS has to offer?
Said before the game our midfield is lightweight and offers little threat, certainly at this level. Off the pace( MoR) and some poor first touches ( Calmac/ RH). Also offers little defensive cover.
We were playing with 3rd/4th choice centre backs who have had a couple of games together. Is it any wonder they were sliced open so often?
Either with CCV would have made us more resolute but we would still be exposed by a badly positioned triumvirate in front.
Some criticism of OA is unfair on the lad who has had less than 90 mins playing time. Give him a break before setting him up as a scape goat contender.
Our best move, goal apart, was one touch play down right -JJ to DM to Kyogo. Great header good save. Good first touch play.
Leipzig third goal was not dissimilar( cross field pass to right back who like Daizen hit it first time)
Difference is clinical finishing. Even Euro heavyweights like Liverpool the other night found that difficult.
We are on a learning curve. Leipzig and their coach have far superior Euro experience. That showed.
Saying all that we actually can finish second unbelievably by winning 1-0 at home twice,( 7 points) as long as RM do us favours. We do not necessarily have to beat Leipzig by two clear goals as Mahe suggests.
So footy beyond Xmas is still on, notwithstanding the towel throwers on here.
As for the incessant Board whinging about resuscitating dead Huns, who are you trying to convince?
We are well aware of the past.
What you girn on about isn’t going to change anything.
Supporters support, if corporate Celtic upsets you so much why bother bringing your angst on here? Surely letting it go would be a healthier option?
Tiresome repitition isn’t going to result in the revolution you crave.
For the vast majority it’s all about the football.
If that makes the rest of us mindless, Hun loving board supporters in your mind neither your or our views are gonna change that. Intemperate language doesn’t do your case much good either.
Spot on 👏👏
Good morning all,
Just saying, I love angeball, love the way we have a go. Love Big Joe.
I also love the hysteria on here after a European defeat.
Just by the way Celtic have never won in German, Never, but now our manager needs L plates. Did all the other managers that lost also need L plates.
I read the same pish last year and as I said then give him time. The difference at that point was, we were way behind the huns In the league.
Big Joe made one mistake, the first I can remember in a long time, one mistake and I don’t accept the OG on Saturday thats not on him. No chance.
If you think we should play a different way, ie the huns style, remember they didn’t have a shot on goal until the 70th minute.
I know what I would rather pay to watch.
A t o b
Ta, not sure everyone will agree😀
Agree re hysteria on here!
Perspective required on our learning curve development. JH contributes hugely to our team in many ways … his mistake was a game changer, but other vital saves are ignored.
Calmac was equally culpable with his poor touch in the lead up to the first. Neither should be made scapegoats but Joe seems to have the detractors out in force.
We have two crucial games at home and still have the opportunity to finish second from a pot 4 position.
We are a work in progress, a number of key positions need improving but surely incremental improvement at CL level is to be welcomed?
Morning all! An honest enough leader this morning. Regarding the defence, though, we were disjointed and played like strangers – probably no surprise given the time Welsh and Jenz have played together but it’s not good enough irrespective of the reasons. inidvidually I thought JJ, Welsh and Taylor played well, Jenz gives the ball aaway too cheaply too often for my liking and doesn’t get tight enough ever. I was one who criticised Abilgaard last night and stand by it. It was him or McCarthy last night when Calmac went off, I’m not convinced Abilgaard was the right shout – and I’m no fan of McCarthy! We all have expectations of players and as a defensive mid Abilgaard didn’t do the job as I hoped he would. There was no hysteria in any of my comments but I was disappointed in the way we lost the game last night…and as I said last night, it’s on Ange!
Trying to conquer Europe while buying £2m players …utterly impossible.
With £2m players comes a lack of brains and game intelligence.
Add in our tactical naivety (You could drive a fleet of buses through our defence), and you get what we watched last night.
Let’s be honest, lads like Welsh and Taylor are miles from the standard required.
£2m players at CL level + tactics so naive it’s laughable, will always be a recipe for disappointment.
All we have left to offer at this level is a great atmosphere, for which we are constantly patronized, and one trophy from when the world was black and white.
BAD…I agree but they were the two players that did what was asked on the night. I know they’re never gonna be CL-level players but if they’re in the team and trying to make it happen there’s no more can be expected of them. Jota was poor last night and left Taylor exposed constantly. Welsh faced up every time and wasn’t pulled out of position, his passes found his teammates but lack of cover, before and after Calmac went off, meant RBL were overloading our central defence 3 to 2. It’s on Ange!
Calmac and Joe giving assists, Calmac on their 18 yard line almost isn’t on Ange.
Was last nights result and performance a surprise to anyone? I was reviewing the various messages passing between family and friends pre match. A selection of which I’ve copied below:
“ I think we will lose. Defence is so weak. 4-2 defeat”
“I’d say 3-0 or 3-1 to Leipzig. You just know we will get destroyed on the counter attack”
“Leipzig are hitting form. Good strong team. 3-0 unfortunately”
“I think Ange needs to get smarter tonight. Our normal style will suit this side and they’ll hurt us on the counter. 4-1.”
“ we’re dire middle to back. CCV is huge loss. Welsh and co simply not good enough for this level. 3-1 Leipzig”
“ head says 3-0 to Leipzig. Heart says 1-1, but my wallet is ruled by my head”
“ 3-1 to the Germans unfortunately”
You’ll get the picture. There were 14 predictions in total. 4 got it spot on. All 14 went for a win for Leipzig.
So there were no surprises last night. We were well beaten by a team who had the ability and talent to expose the weaknesses that are obvious to most Celtic supporters.
The return match will reveal a lot re Ange. He’s watched the same match as us last night. He’s seen how his system can be exploited by good players. He’ll be facing the same players again. Two good teams we’ve faced in Europe. Both have cut through us with ease. Will he change anything? Has he got the players at his disposal who will allow him to change it? Does he have the mindset to change it? His system got us the title last season. It might well bring the title this season too, but it’s not going anywhere in Europe.
All’s not lost. Lessons need to be learned though. We need 2 home wins now to get to the 7 point mark which would see us still in Europe in one of the two competitions. Taking anything in Madrid looks highly improbable if not impossible, even v a Real side who will already be through and will almost certainly field a weakened team, so two home wins are critical. We can beat Shaktar. No gimme , but we can beat them. We will be favourites to do so.
Can we beat Leipzig? On last nights evidence, no. It’ll take a change of tactics and some luck. Over to you Ange. What have you learned?
On the Joe Hart incident. I’m well aware the manager tells them to play out, but for me, an experienced keeper like Joe needs on occasion to realise there’s no outlet and he should go long. He’s not made many errors but that was a bloody costly one last night.
As for next weeks match, I remain calm. Expected nothing last night, but go into next weeks match hoping rather than expecting. Keeps my blood pressure closer to the 120/80 mark!
Perspective. We came into this group from pot 4, the teams in the 3 higher pots have higher co-efficients than us, indicating better teams, we haven’t played at this rarified level for some time, a fair number of our players are making their first foray into the CL, ergo, we are unlikely to win many games, especially away from home.
However, we did at least try to compete, and barring a howler by Joe at 1-1, could easily have taken something from the game. Cut out the errors, get our first choice team out there, and learn how to play at this level – sounds easy written down.
CFC…we can all point to individual errors and Joe Hart already accepted responsibility for his albeit with the caveat that that’s the way he’s told to play so I’d say that’s on Ange. Calmac trying to get the shot away, makes an erse of it, they break up the park…not on Ange, I’ll give you that. RBL countering us and overloading the middle and defence constantly throughout the game, seemingly at will, that’s definitely on Ange!
As before, there’s no hysteria n my part, we’ve been here too many times t be surprised, but year on year we should expect progress and we’re not showing much at the moment (I know we’ve got injuries etc etc but still…)
Injuries to first choice CH’s is pretty fundamental I’d say. £2/4m players are competing as best they can.
Particularly when one of the opposition has been transferred a few times for a figure around the total value of the plc.
We are a modest work in progress, with glaring deficiencies in a number of areas which have been talked about before yesterday’s game.
CFC…can’t you see it’s the system that done for us last night? We’re not doing what we have done so well previously but neither are we compensating in other areas because of it!
We definitely have concerns, t’uther day I said Celtic were outside my comfort level at the moment and last evenings display cements that.
Now, we had a good one last season but as I’ve said previously, that was only in the context on what went before, I intimated my concern early in the week but said I’d leave it to after Leipzig.
Well, we are now after Leipzig and we need to talk about Harry…
Ange brought him in for his own good reasons no doubts, accomplished and decorated footballer he no doubt was but has done little at coaching level to suggest he should have a prominent role in a UCL side.
What was clear from last season was we had to build on our achievements and we had to find some way of moving up a level.
It just hasn’t happened, neither the players we’ve brought in, nor the system we play has been enhanced by our long pre-season.
The idea that we are going to take six points in our next two UCL home games looks like a pipe dream – as things stand a draw against RBL at Celtic Park looks like a result.
The best we can hope for this season is that Ange and his backroom staff can get together during the World Cup break and the Aussie trip to strategise on how we get to the next level
So now we come to Jobo time and a not very easy task, again no stand outs, yet three it must be…
So, although like St Tams I thought GG might be a better shout up front, and the physicality of the Germans suggested it was the way to go, Kyogo put in a shift, pressed well, could have had a couple and was very unselfish in his assist for the goal.
The centre backs, well what can you say, a very talented attack from RBL meant three was a relief, two choked off goals, a shout for a penalty and the woodwork kept the score real.
Going through our defence like a hot knife through butter wasn’t a good look, but actually under the circumstances the CH’s did fine, I gave the nod to Stephen last week so Jenz, who really looks like he has a turn of pace, gets my vote this week.
With Meada up against a fullback who can match him for pace and Jota closely marked, our forward potency was curtailed and with our fullbacks struggling, it’s midfield that I turn to for my next vote.
Tough one, for Calmac it was a game too far, for O’Riley it was a game too soon, so as I was a bit harsh on Hatate on Saturday and he really had a lot on his plate last evening, Reo gets the shout…
So winging it’s way to…
1. Moritz Jenz
Have a great day Celts
I’m not defending the system. I disagreed with your comment that the loss of two avoidable goals was on Ange. Calmac couldn’t properly control a ball, then injured himself trying to recover, and Joe made a suicidal pass.
We are too open.
The personnel are the best available to implement a game plan that better teams will play through.
Ange will never play like the Huns do.
Didn’t do them much good.
One of their players actually transferred for more money than it cost to assemble our whole squad. Reality is shit!
I know it’s hard to accept we ain’t at the races at this level, but what’s the point in kidding ourselves?
We can hardly be blamed for the CL becoming a closed shop, but our tactical naivety will continue to compound our problems.
Playing so openly away from home isn’t just naive, it is utterly stupid!
After seeing how open and vulnerable we were in the first 45, to come out and play the same in the second was criminal.
Would someone like Pep have continued with those tactics for the full 90 minutes, after watching how open we were in the first half? I highly doubt it.
You are either mega rich and have a place at the table, or you are just nowhere at this level. It is sickening!!
If Ange continues down the road he is on right now (We’ll do plan A better 😱) it won’t be long till the goodwill disappears.
To come out playing the same tactics in the second half last night was, for me, very worrying.
Time to straighten up and fly right!
B A D
Ain’t that the truth.
I had JH down as one of my three JOBO picks until his disaster. There was little chance of them missing from that.
Just like there was little chance of them not scoring after CalMac’s heavy touch on the edge of their box,they knew how to punish their mistakes,and harried us into them. We didn’t do that to them all night.
I stand by what I said last night. This playing from the back is not Joe’s gig hence why he lost his place at Man City. However in his mitigation he can pass from the back just don’t keep giving the ball back to him. As Ange said:
‘We kept giving it back to Joe for no reason’
On Joe’s gaff you can not defend him by stipulating that he subsequently made good saves, the damage was done and changed the game.
As for OA, looked more like a basketball player than a footballer and not having enough game time doesn’t mitigate that!
What does a footballer look like?
Ludicrous assessment after a total of an hour? on the pitch.
There were other anonymous players on the pitch last night who have had plenty of game time to mitigate that!
Last night was not a surprise to me.
Firstly, most of us have been saying that the midfield needed strengthening and the way that we set up changed. This has not happened.
When playing against better class opposition, they are able to play through our midfield far too easily as more often than not, there are only 2 of them there , as O’Riley plays as a 4th forward , which is absolute madness at this level
This in turn leaves us so exposed.
They could have scored 2 in the first 2 minutes of the game , by breaking forward at pace. I felt the result flattered us in the end.
As for Joe Hart. When we signed Siegerist, I said to my son that he would be no 1 before the end of the season and he told me I was talking rubbish.
If you look at the 4 goals we lost before last night, you could say that he should have prevented all 4 of them.
Thought we would finish bottom of the group when draw was made. I have seen nothing to make me change my mind.
Not even a draw away to Shakhtar – which just might be enough, other factors outside of our influence permitting, to move us up to third in the group?
Re OA,he put in a tremendous tackle on the edge of our box to break up an RBL attack. The loose ball broke to one of our players who passed it to OA. Sadly,he was still admiring his handiwork,and let the ball run past and straight to another RBL player.
That is simply shocking.
What wasn’t shocking about several player’s contributions last night?
The fine tradition of searching for scapegoats!?
Good morning, friends. Loving the reasoned and civil debates on here this morning.
My own view, briefly, is pretty simple. In all 3 games we have created chances and been “a spider’s bawhair” (copyright Leggy) away from it being a completely different game. Yes, in 2 of them we went on to be punished heavily. But let’s face the reality, Ange is going to approach the next 2 games in a very similar manner so we need to at least prepare our own emotions for that!
Wee Gordon on TV last night suggested that in the 3 games played we’ve had something like 40 decent chances. Our return of just 1 goal needs improvement.
Tricky decision for Jobo’s picks but my 3 are
Kyogo – Worked very hard and unlucky a couple of times.
Welsh – Not a complete standout but considering he’s up against top strikers thought be did enough for a pick.
Taylor – Worked hard but actually not one of his better games. Really no one else comes into my thinking.
Have a good day everyone 💚
Can’t fault the support for unrealistic expectations but once again Europe slaps us down.
As McCaff states this one is on Ange.
Naive would be a kind description.
While with hope in our heart resonates the clear evidence that we would fail in Europe was in plain sight.
I have said we are not cohesive and our spacing can be poor.
Luckily most SPL teams are not good enough to take advantage of such but even in those games there are moments when it is clear.
An unbalanced midfield is obvious yet no real attempt has been made to solve.
Calum has now been the direct cause of goals in our last two European games yet is seen as vital.
If Turnbull had been guilty of such errors he would have been slaughtered yet for Calum a litany of excuses are always found.
A lack of leadership on the park contributes to the spacing issue though coaches should do better at addressing this on the training pitch.
Last night the gaps between forwards, midfield and defense made it easy for Leipzig to play neat triangles in the centre of the field then overload our defense with additional runners.
Has our SPL success blinded coaches from seeing our faults?
Individually we have some very good players but we need the coaches to step up their game and turn us into an effective and cohesive team.
We need better analysis to show players why our spacing is causing us so many problems and teach them importance of team structure.
Last night some players did well on an individual level but never at any point did we resemble a team.
Marco Rose last night showed how proper coaching can turn a talented bunch of players into a team.
The difference in the team since his appointment shows how much coaching matters.
Wee Gordon has a point but perhaps is prone to some exaggeration. Around 40 shots in total.
We’ve had 17 shots on target in 3 games.
A decent return should be 30/40%?
Certainly more than the two scored!
So, yip we have been profligate in front of goal,
but let’s pick on individuals for “shocking” individual actions some of which have cost us, some have not.
It’s a high pressure environment and we are novices.
Good teams batter poor ones.
There are 5 makeweights in the CL with worse GD than us, including the Huns.
Their system is designed to defend at all costs.
Whatever they play – a back 5, 2/3 defensive mids isn’t doing them much good.
If you don’t have the quality you merely make up numbers til the real competition is decided.
I’m not looking for a scapegoat at all. I don’t think I mentioned even one player in the article,apart from the JH howler that led to their winner.
OA wasn’t even guilty of ball-watching in the incident I mentioned in my comment. That is an observation,and one which needs making. Players need to be alert at all times,and particularly when there is a loose ball on the edge of our box.
OA wasn’t. Simple as that.
Timo Werner earns £150k a week!? If you don’t laugh, eh? Fucking hell.
Apart from being priced out of attending the game we love, it’s not hard to see why lots have turned their back on football.
Anyone catch Napoli v Ajax the other night?
A truly brilliant pass and move demonstration by the slick Italians.
They made a decent Ajax team look third rate and lucky to get away with a 6-1 beating.
The speed they moved the ball forward with should be a blueprint for many coaches.
None of that sideways and backwards shit just for the sake off.
Damningly accurate predictions from all your bookie-bashing pals! Quite honestly,I was confident of at least a point and possibly all three-but that was after the Shakhtar game. The wheels have definitely come off since,and that surely can’t all be explained by the absence of CCV.
Hopefully I’ll be in a better mood for tomorrows article. Hopefully too,the players will return to form. We are a terrific side when we hit form,but when we are off it,the weaknesses are glaring.
A draw would have done us rightly in that game.
What’s wrong with shutting up shop once we level it?
Get every player behind the ball,then hit them on the break, instead of that head-in-the-clouds, Kamikaze style tripe.
No team has to play the same way each and every game.
Whatever happened to tactics?
Games change, situations change – you try to adapt accordingly.
It isn’t just Ange either, successive Celtic managers in Europe same pig-headed stubbornness.
As I said last night, I don’t think we were as bad as some are indicating.
We were playing a quality team and created a few chances, ultimately they had better quality players who took their chances.
Those talking about Craig Gordon, last night, he made a mistake, worse than Joe Hart, in Europe, at Celtic Park.
He THREW the ball against an opponent, who then passed the ball into the empty net.
Hatate was given M.O.M. on Sat, by Jobo’s voters ( including myself ) yet, he made a glaring error, that ended up with our captain being sent off, to prevent a goal.
Joe played very well but made one glaring mistake.I will stick by him, in my top 3.
I was initially referring to P B’s assessment of OA and you then made a comment.
I mentioned scapegoat in that instance.
My reasoning is why identify him as a particular reason for last night’s failure.
Bit unfair is it not?
The game last night seems to have given me double vision. Is anyone else seeing two ‘Breakin Bad’ leaders under Recent posts ?
In other news, Happy Gilbert Day!
I think literally thousands will have expected a result such as the one we got last night. Looking through my messages this morning, this one struck a chord with me.
“ bank balance higher, mood at ground floor level. Rattling through my head all morning as I think about the return match has been the name of one team. Partisan Belgrade. The highs and lows. Nothing changes pal. Are we looking at a similar result next week? The way we defend would suggest the 4 isn’t impossible. The 5? I genuinely thought their defence wasn’t much better than ours. No away goals rule to worry about but always the niggling thought that head to head might count for something, so forget the 5-4. What odds do you think I’ll secure on a 5-2?😁”
From duplicate leader
Yes indeed, good points.The system is okay, just the quality of the players playing it. In the SPL yes, any higher, where physicality in all positions is important, we struggle. There are other factors. Guardiola has changed his system to suit one ( extraordinary) player. We don’t have that luxury so must either buy better, coach better or change.
We have a chance to show we are better than that
Trying to think what’s the worst music ??
Gilbert and Sullivan or Gilbert 0’Sullivan. 😜😜😜
Nah, only kidding, Enjoy the show tonight 🎵🎵🎵
Hopefully fixed the double leader.
fan @ 9.43
By the end if the game we had 4 forwards and 2 holding midfielders on the park.
With no shape whatsoever
Hope someone (who isn’t banned Danny😀) can repost this on both CQN and Sentinel Celts.
Our Round 9 leaders were :-
Melvin Udall- 14.5
The class of 67- 12.5
Melvin’s score equals the weekly best set by Ayrshire Tim in Week 1 and sets the target to be beat in any other week featuring double matches for teams.
Wooden spoon goes to Craig 76 who scored the same 2 points that Belmont Brian collected but, without the wooden implement award.
Overall, our leaders are:-
Ayrshire Tim- 60
Our wooden spoon contenders are Belmont Brian and wee BGFC on 22 but Craig 76 is challenging on 23.5
Remember to have next week’s predictions in for 12.30 on Saturday (6.30 am start for me in the US this week) and there is a game on Tuesday next to be included too, remember
ASWGL, that’s it fixed! 🙂
BTW the reason I specifically mentioned OA because there had been previous discussions on him coming on to cover the void left by mcGregor being injured.
Anyways must go and annoy autoglass as they haven’t turned up, bit like OA😱😵😂