Men Against Boys

Morning,all.

That was not a pretty watch last night. We took the game to Leipzig,had some decent early chances and even hit the woodwork a couple of times,but we were chasing our tails all night. 

Early on in the first half,Leipzig had the astonishing stats of 75-25 in their favour. At Fortress Parkhead,ffs! We eventually got our stats up to 42% and fat lot of use it did us. This result could have been a lot worse but for the outstanding displays of our keeper and centre backs. 

Let’s not kid ourselves,Leipzig are a very good side on the ball,and we let them have it practically to themselves all bloody night. Yet they are only mid-table in their domestic league? What,do they save themselves for ripping the piss out of us twice in a week?

Yes,I thought the referee could have performed better,for instance he could have taken a look at VAR when G-Mak was manhandled as he went for a fairly straightforward header. But that is clutching at straws-and it might have got them angry!

I’m not going to identify any individual players who failed to do themselves justice last night. You will all have your own views on that. But I said recently that we have to stop trying to play players back into form when they are so far off it at the moment. There were a few of them last night,and I think that they brought some of their colleagues down to their level,players who had until last night been holding their form very well.

Ange needs to have a good look at that,because it is not only happening at the European level but also at domestic level. We were flying a month ago,and what the hell happened to bring our performance levels down to where we are?

I’m not paid to know the answers to that,but Ange is. And yes,we love the big fella but we can be a fickle lot. For the benefit of his own sanity and ours,he needs to find the answers,and fast. 

Last night was a huge disappointment and a sair boot in the bollocks. Just because it’s happening quite regularly doesn’t mean I have to get used to it. It certainly doesn’t mean that we have to like it either,or just settle for it.

We probably need to beat both Shakhtar and Real Madrid now to finish in third,and that just isn’t going to happen. So we concentrate on domestic duties now,and try to get our players playing with that fluidity we had for most of last season and the start of this. And we can make a start by benching the underperformers,they can play themselves back into form and confidence from there. 

NOT from a starting role,where the rest of the players are fagged out covering for their inadequacies. We know they are good players,of course. We have seen that,marvelling at their skills since they joined. I’ll welcome them back with open arms once they get things back to normal.

Until then,I don’t want to see them until the last quarter of the match. 

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Above article by BMCUWP

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BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
Leftclicktic

Good morning all
Bring on the hibees.

St tams

Morning all.
Good summary BMCUWP

I thought RB in the first half were quite happy just to control the ball and having us chasing it.
They then changed a bit in the second, pushing forward more and creating good chances.

Decent effort from Celtic, but just not good enough and not surprised at result.

My top 3 .
CCV , Jenz and struggling for a third, but thought James Forrest had a good second half.

jimthetim53

Morning all and Packy.

I said it on here last week and I’m saying it again, our passing skills at the moment are terrible. Where the ball goes – nobody knows! Leipzig on the other hand were clinical with their passing, leading to a huge advantage in possession. It’s not something I remember until the past month. What’s happened?

Here’s hoping for the Europa league and still playing after Christmas!

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

JIMTHETIM53

There’s a lot of us scratching our head over the drop in quality in the last month.

Call me Gerry

A sensible leader, Bobby. And a fair reflection on where we are at the moment.
Only thing missing from your article was a more detailed solution to the problem you highlighted.

That is, it’s fair comment to say that certain players should be dropped; in your opinion of course. And I know you said you don’t want to highlight those individual players. But it’s also not very constructive to highlight a problem without also providing a solution. It’s one thing to drop an underperforming player. But you need to replace them…right?

So my question to you is this…what would be your starting XI against Hibs on Saturday? 🤷‍♂️

Go on, go on, go on…😁

HH

Frodshambhoy

Bobby 👍
Concise summary of last nights match and the current state of Glasgow Celtic

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

CALLMEGERRY

I’ve said often on here that especially for Europe,we should be sacrificing one of our front three for a holding midfielder. One that is only there to break up attacks and pass it five yards. 4-1-3-2 in effect.

I just didn’t want to mention it in the article as it is labouring a point,and won’t happen anyway.

Prestonpans bhoys

I think if Maeda broke his leg today Ange would play him on Saturday, he’s aff form but is constantly picked, I could think of a few others too.

jimthetim53

Well, onwards to Saturday now against Hibs who got beaten last night by Dundee Utd (2nd from the bottom in the league). So it can be done! LOL 🙂

Rebus67

Let’s focus on the players that seem to have shaded off in the last month. Maeda, Kyogo and Abada fall into that category. That is virtually the current starting forward line. It could be argued that Hatate, O’Riley have shaded off as well but can still have good periods during a game. They are in a different category from the first group. I wonder if the player rating stats confirm the above? This second group is most of the midfield.

So, who played well or reasonably well last night? CCV, Jenz, and Taylor come to mind. Haksabanovic and Forest could also be considered to get pass marks at the least.

Anyone see anything that distinguishes these two groups of players? The first group consists of regular starters from the start of the season. The second group includes CCV and Jenz who for differing reasons have not be starters over the season. Haksabanovic has also not started a lot of games as he builds up his fitness. Similarly, Forest has been a bit part player so far.

Why have some players shaded off and, yet, others were able to contribute reasonably last night? As Bobby says, he is not paid to answer that question. However, I fear that I know the answer. Players are being burned out by something….either Ange’s system or the training, or a combination of each of them. The effects are seen initially in the regular starters to varying degrees. Those that have had periods out injured or working up their fitness levels are able to perform when they come back into the team. Unfortunately, there is not enough of them to compensate for the under performers……hence the nail biting results over the last month.

If I am correct, and I hope I am not, eventually the returning players will shade off as well. If I have hit the nail on the head, this is a serious, perhaps fatal flaw that will effect domestic success and replicate our dismal European efforts. Will Ange change? I doubt it. He has stuck with his system in the latter part of his career. We may be looking at the beginning of a downward spiral if my theory is correct. Because, if the cause of our poor performances is burnout, it will continue to happen throughout the season unless something changes. Bringing in reinforcements in January will only be a bandaid solution to philosophical and strategic flaws at the coaching level.

To those that think that this venture is a learning experience, I concur but I am braced by the fact that it is also a learning experience for Leipzig, who were in the Europa last season. Who knocked them out?

Rebus

Call me Gerry

Bobby @ 10:23

Fair points. I agree that 4-1-3-2 could be an option. Biggest problem being, as you say, it’s unlikely to happen under Ange. So I understand your reluctance to labour your point. 👍

I’m wait til Saturday (pre match, mind) to see your proposed starting XI v Hibs 😉

PB

Another fair point. Though as I’ve already stated, it’s one thing to highlight a problem that needs resolved. But it’s better to propose a solution, ie name a team v Hibs from our currently available players who would do better. Constructive criticism is better than simply highlighting a problem. 👍😁

Aff to work now. Will look in laters

HH

Jobo Baldie

Good morning, friends.
Thanks to all of you early voters that have given me the names of your top 3 from last night. I know there are dozens more out there just about to join in so, please, do it now.
And, safe in the knowledge that I won’t be influencing anyone (after all, I was the sole supporter of Abada last weekend!!) I have to say that CCVs performance last night, particularly in the 2nd half, was immense….
SENCELPOTY@GMAIL.COM

Rebus67

C me G,

Yes, it is better to offer a solution and not be merely negative. If burnout is the problem then the options are 1. Replace players who are not up to it. Since many players have shaded off this would be an expensive exercise and not a quick fix. 2. Change the system, either the intensity of training and/or the “we never stop” strategy. Is Ange likely to do this? I doubt it.

In addition, there needs to be a Plan B to we never stop. One that kicks in after 60 minutes to avoid burnout. Trouble is we usually have not put games to bed by the 60th minute.

I think we are entering a different phase of the Ange experiment.

Rebus

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

REBUS67

With the exception of O’Riley,all of our front/mid six were subbed last night. This is a common occurrence,and has been for some time. Are the players subbed because they are burnt-out? Probably not,I think that is the game plan-to run themselves into the ground then make way for a replacement.

Problem is that it leads to player burn-out!

I said in yesterday’s article that every single player would give their 100%,and they certainly did. But fatigue isn’t just physical,it is mental and psychological too. And it is in the last two that I think certain players are hitting a brick wall.

fan

Last seasons success predictably has had an unsettling effect on some of our players.
Maybe an overinflated sense of self due to the plaudits received leading to less effort or focus for some.
Our better players faced an unsure /exciting summer when they were linked with bigger league clubs.
Kyogo perhaps injury against huns still troubling him on a psychological level as he seems to be struggling to recapture last seasons form?
Maeda has a poor touch that seems to have been exacerbated by trying too hard to remedy poor form.
Abada’s non selection could be Ange’s reaction to his stated desire to be an EPL player.
JJ to me has been the biggest issue after the Man U/Athletico Madrid links.He has been slipshod and unfocused all season.Last night he was poor and culpable at both goals through a lack of focus, awareness,energy and commitment.
Our lack of variation in selection and tactics also magnifies our struggles when confidence and belief diminishes.
Europe has been no surprise for me and has met my expectations.
A refocus is required at team and coaching levels.
The league now has to be a priority and lessons learned on the unsettling nature of the football environment on small league teams like ourselves.

SeS

Bobby
4-1-3-2
Agree we need that one (at least) sitting on these occasions – two needed in relevant phases of the game.

Leipzig looked at us and thought ‘Never Stop! .. is it? OK so we just pass the ball around and knacker them out.

They could plan to do this mainly because they are organised and can actually pass the ball accurately to feet. Also, they looked at our ‘press’ and thought ‘hell, these guys aren’t really pressing – there are gaps everywhere to pass through that press AND They lose almost every 50:50 tackle because they arent physically strong enough to win a fair tackle.

We get The irony on the ‘Fortress Paradise’ – as we haven’t seen it for almost 20 years and then that was only briefly.

I’m all for attacking fitba and like everyone else have enjoyed Angeball – but questions are now being asked ‘is he being Sussed out by opponents?’ – and more importantly- are his players doubting his methods can bring them success.

Too early to call that, but let’s acknowledge this is being discussed.

Some great analysis on the blog last night and this morning.

My takeaway – we absolutely don’t have the mix of players needed to win games in Europe.

We lack technique and basic skills, we aren’t conditioned/fit enough. What is the point in having a squad with 4 players whom we can’t assess ability wise (Gucci, Mooy, McCarthy and now Ablidgaard) with a string of question marks over their ‘fitness’ or ‘readiness’ – who is responsible for signing players that aren’t ready to play? We keep hearing some haven’t played for a while – some for good reasons- but why are they so out of condition that they need months to get ready to play at full tilt?

They all seemed to fit the bill as more defensive-minded ( Ange wants to call it something else.. fair enough …but that job still needs doing mate!) but we can’t rely on them to perform when needed ( injuries aside)

The chat about defence being good last night. We saw some great interventions but generally, felt we were overrrun too often and couldn’t get close enough to them to be effective. Both goals … jeezo!!
Joe Hart just did what we should expect from him and one great save.

Their opening tactic of running down our steam -including the crowd- worked perfectly, and they simply switched through the gears as the game developed. Following their own plan it seemed.

Our plan just didn’t work because our players can’t execute the plan – and it’s beginning to look like some of them already know it.

Not good!

McCaff

Men against Boys…or better players playing a system that suits them? Men against Boys or players brought up with a system that they are comfortable playing in? Red Bull, like the City Group, are in this for the long haul. There are bucks to be made but a massive infrastructure is required. Red Bull know what they are doing, their success is no surprise. Their network allows smaller RB-clubs in lesser leagues to identify and recruit local talent then develop it. Inter-Club transfers mean that RB Leipzig – the cream of the RB teams – gets the pick of the players. We are in the unfortunate position of being a single Club in a small League trying to build relationships, at the lower end of the transfer market, to do what City Group and Red Bull are fast becoming Global experts at.
None of this makes us feel any better watching our team being pumped but it is a tangible explanation for the difference in ability.
For what it’s worth I thought Cletic were very good in spells last night once they found their rhythm. The fact that RBL were rattled for spells in the game show we’ve got something to work with. Hart, Jenz, CCV, Taylor, JJ, Matt, Haksa, Hatate all did well for periods of the game. It was never enough though, and that is down to a poor run of form and results which has led to a slump in confidence. We need to work through this, and quickly. The longer this goes on the harder it becomes to get out of it.
There’s been a few comments in praise of James Forrest…I thought he was terrible. He turned back just about every time. He was our most experienced outfield player on the park and I thought he was very poor. The opportunities he had to get the left back on the turn and he turned back inside was so frustrating. Mooy is a strange signing for me and his inclusion in the squad is Ange justifying his signing, nowhere near the standard of player we should be looking at – I’m n fan of McCarthy but I’m struggling to see what Mooy brings that McCarthy can’t. Turnbull is just off it at the moment – his stats for assists and scoring opportunities last season were the best at the Club and maybe even the League – a few weeks building his confidence on the sidelines might help.
Finally…what happened to our 90 minute high press, We Never Stop! Last season our one-touch finishes by Kyogo, Maeda and GG were the difference between us controlling games and struggling in games. We seemed to have stopped going behind teams the way we did last season. The high press now seems to be a mid press! Lets get back to proper AngeBall, put teams under pressure at pace, get opposition defenders and midfielders on the turn quicker and start showing us what they are capable of again. We are a shadow of last year’s side in both style of play and results.

Auldheid

Rebus

Using Occam’s Razor the lower performance levels started with the two games a week schedule. Two games a week increases the possibility of injuries on the park which have been a contributing factor plus the loss of three points when Ange tried to give the better performers a rest because of the 2 game a week schedule.

Since that schedule ends next month and is unlikely to return after Christmas in European terms, the job now is to keep the two-point gap at the top of the table in the upcoming league games.

If we cannot do that then I’d worry.

McCaff

Incidentally, one thing I pointed out to the wee guy at the game last night – when RBL set defensively they didn’t man mark, they filled the spaces between our players. Our passes into space were then reached quicker by the RBL players. It gave them the advantage over us every time. We were man marking which meant they were on their toes and off into the spaces we were leaving. A very simple way of playing but we weren’t reading it. That one’s on Ange.

Auldheid

Code Red. (adapted in fun from a Few Good Men https://youtu.be/9FnO3igOkOk )

You want a solution?

You can’t handle a solution.

I’ll give you a solution.

PATIENCE! 😉

(The passport to living in Now)

McCaff

SES…”Leipzig looked at us and thought ‘Never Stop! .. is it? OK so we just pass the ball around and knacker them out.” Bang on! But they didn’t play that way to counter us – that is how they always try to play. As my wee guy pointed out last night “Leipzig are the team we WANT to be!” Wise words form him…feck knows where he gets that from! His maw? 😁
#BertKontermanCSC

McCaff

Here’s a good article on the workings of Red Bull in fitba…
https://jobsinfootball.com/blog/red-bull-soccer-teams/

McCaff

Anyone fancy a bit of Ska…

SeS

McCaff

Aye good points buddy: both on the wisdom of your son… and getting said wisdom from his mum 😂😂

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

SALTIRES

Good point re signing of players who are short of fitness. Abildgaard said that he hadn’t trained for four months prior to joining us.

Really? That’s totally unprofessional,even if his career was in limbo due to the Ukraine war. Anyway,he has had at least six weeks with us now,and should be up for it by now-you would think.

Re Mooy,I thought last night was his best performance for us. Until he got a nosebleed in front of goal.

Looking forward to your On This Day article tomorrow to cheer me up!

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

AULDHEID

Happy to go with that idea that we will be back to normal after the world cup,but the players have to realise that two games a week is pretty much the norm nowadays.

Twisty

Only disappointment for me last night was our failure to find the net in the first half during the periods we created good chances. Had one or two gone in? Who knows. ( yeah I know, if my granny had….)

The facts are though we did create. 16 goal attempts but only two on target. Leipzig were more clinical. 13 attempts with 5 on target.

The defensive side of the game didn’t disappoint me, purely because it wasn’t unexpected. We’ve all seen enough of Celtic in Europe, including this side, that no one should be surprised at the goals against column.

SPL now the priority. Probably was anyway to be fair. Not sure there’s much to be gained by dropping into the EL even if we somehow did manage it. Rest time will be a factor.

Oddly I find myself this morning thinking it might be better if Rangers could manage to grab third and extend their campaign in Europe. The additional pressures on players due to the CL looks to have badly affected our domestic form.

McCaff

From UEFA’s stats…
Dribbles RBL 8 v our 6
Runs into final third RBL 13 v our 7
Runs into key play area RBL 8 v our 6
Runs into penalty area RBL 7 v our 2
In terms of stats it was a fairly even game but the stats above combined with Twists goal attempts stats are the difference in games. Bottom line is we are poor at the minute ad the sooner that is addressed and sorted the better!

Big Audio Dynamite

In almost every game Glasgow Celtic play, we have to overcome factors other than just the opposition’s 11men.
In Scotland it’s the 11 men + 3 officials, and we’ve all seen how that can affect the outcome.
In Europe we’re trying to take on the richest clubs on the planet with one leg tied up behind our arses.
You are either mega-rich or nowhere in Europe these days.
Makes me sick what they’ve done to a tournament I used to love. (Been a while)
Tell you what though, I will take massive pleasure in winning the league this year.

Still on the Ange train 🍀🍀

Big Audio Dynamite

McCaff 11.44

SKA is always a good …day or night 👍

SeS

Bobby

Aye- the lack of professionalism seems odd. Looks like there is good ability in there and totally get Auldheid’s counsel on “patience” – certainly where this guy is concerned.

Maybe he was adversely affected by sudden changes in circumstances – decided to take some ‘time’ and we are learning more about why young men should.

As you know my concern is about having ‘oven- ready’ players available to play as and when needed. There was a gap in the team for long enough and everyone knew it. Now the efforts to fill it adequately have been questionable.

In this example Patience isn’t the behaviour/competency required …it’s Taking Action!

Mooy a player I instinctively like… feel we need to see him in the right circumstances -and regularly- to form a more rounded opinion.

For tomorrow -Aye, had already anticipated this morning buddy…

McCaff

SES…what would be the right circumstances for Mooy? I just cannot see a place for him in this team, I cannot see what he brings to the table. He doesn’t seem to have positional discipline, shooting ability, creative passing, he slows the game down in areas we should be speeding up… I know Ange likes him but I struggle to see why!

SeS

McCaff

That’s a good question buddy.

When we signed him I immediately checked his last game played – v Peru (0-0 aet) World Cup qualifier last June. Both Oz commentators talked about his lack of game time and fitness. They seemed to conclude he had never, never looked quick or fully fit … ever. That his fitness speed was .. deceptive ( yes, I know…)

So I watched the full game plus extra time and pens ( he played right through in Doha temperatures) and scored a pen to help take Oz to the WC Finals.

First half – What I saw was one mistake due to poor positioning in the Centre Circle as he attempted to block a transition from a broken Oz attack. This was the only negative I saw and his Central Defenders cover that error and arguably because he was there to at least slow the attacker down.

Also first half I noticed he was playing right in front of CH’s taking ball on either foot and laying it off. One or two excellent switch passes to the wings all came off with 100% accuracy. His forward passing was tidy and neat and shorter passes, but well weighted and kept momentum going. At attacking set-pieces he was hovering over the ball available to pass or shoot. He was heavily involved.

At defensive set-pieces he stood in his own ‘D’ and looked to block any 2nd balls there which he managed easily … a few times.

He protected the bill comfortably and always found a teammate.

I noticed he was less of a tackler and more of a closing down player – preventing the opposition Attacks by reading the game … like Lenny but not like Lambo.

The second half he came into the game much more and was pushing passes into the channels and every pass across the deck landed at feet – as Oz took the game to Peru chasing the winner – he was moving farther forward, ten to twenty yards into Peru half and finding accurate passes.

He looked susceptible to folk sprinting past him … absolutely… but his reading of situations seemed to me to allow him to drop off and then do his narrowing and closing of attacker … allowing quicker teammates to funnel back.

Right away I thought he might not always start game in an Angeball team – but he’ll do us a job in some situations and I posted that on here at the time.

I’m not going to argue with you that he hasn’t shown too much in Hoops .. but feel it’s there if utilised.

Bet yer sorry ye asked noo ..🤣😂

McCaff

On the contrary, SES…OK. So, what do you think? You’re Elvis or something ! That don’t impress me much!! 😁

https://youtu.be/CNkzhHG0Prs

McCaff

Seriously, though, thanks for the in depth answer. My only take on it would be his position in the team is as a closer – bring him on when the game’s won to secure the points. In my opinion he’s come on and looked less secure than was hoped! As you suggest, bring him on and let him sit in front of the centre backs just sweeping up any potential problems…but it hasn’t been like that at all. I’ve likened him to Tommy Gravesen and I still believe it, he seems to run into spaces he’s not needed while leaving wee pockets to be exploited. His passes can be too slow, even lazy sometimes. I know I’m not giving him much of a chance but he’s done little to impress me in the time he’s had on the pitch – the St Mirren game the perfect example!

jimthetim53

I see another Scottish team is playing in Europe tonight against Liverpool. At the risk of sounding unpatriotic I’m supporting the ‘Pool because Wee Joan, Packy’s wife, is a Liverpool fan! 🙂

Call me Gerry

Rebus @ 10:40 & 10:56

Good posts 👍We appear to be in a predicament indeed, football philosophy wise. 🤔

HH

big packy

and im supporting rainjurs just to annoy her, that is definitely not a true story😎😎

SeS

McCaff – I hear you buddy – not seeing it yet and admit there was one moment when I thought – Tommy G ( noo …not the Big Shot …) 😅

jimthetim53

Packy, you couldn’t support rainjurs even if you were doped up to your eyeballs! LOL 🙂

IniquitousIV

Some observations on our seventh successive home Champions League defeat to a team pummeled by the Orcs at the Bigotdome only last season.

Our so called high press was manifestly not working, so why did we persist with it? Leipzig easily passed between the widely spaced front 3 who just exhausted themselves with wasteful running. On the other hand, when Leipzig pressed Jenz deep in the left hand corner, he had nowhere to go.

For many years, we have watched Celtic lose possession ( critical in Europe ) at throw ins by hurling it up the line, gambling that it would break for us, and it rarely did. I thought we had corrected that this season. Last night, we reverted to type, with Jura and especially Taylor, looking around askance for an unmarked or moving teammate. Twice, Taylor threw it to Hatate, and twice Hatate put it out of play. Simply unforgivable. On one occasion, Jura threw it directly out of play again! Leipzig did not lose possession once from their own throw ins. Basic, basic stuff.

I may have missed it, but apart from CCV, did we win a single 50-50 ball? O’Riley lost one that looked 70-30 in his favour, making me long for a Davie Hay!

It seems to me that Ange sets out his stall, then makes zero adjustments during the game to address changing circumstances on the field. When he does make subs, it is either too late or they are simply baffling. His cavalier attitude to the defensive side of the game, and lack of pragmatism, will eventually come home to bite. It did in his last full season with the Yokohama Mariners. They finished ninth, scoring 69 goals in 34 games, but conceding an incredible 59, with no evidence that I could find that Ange attempted, or was even capable, of staunching the tide.

What’s that old saying about the definition of insanity…………?

big packy

JIM that is a true story😎off to watch 4 in a bed, catch u later👍

Frodshambhoy

Pretty much every player had their good moments or periods in the game. Problem was they didn’t last long enough, mainly because we couldn’t get a hold of the ball or retain possession when we did have it. The difference in quality of possession and passing between the 2 sides was massive. No wonder we ran out of steam – again.
I also thought Mooy had his moments. Pity he totally fluffed his big moment. Terrible decision not to shoot.
I’m probably the only one on here, but from the little I’ve seen, I think Abildgaard could bring something to the party. Would like to see him given a chance.

16 roads

Angeball was good while it lasted, time to turn the page now.

Liverpool played that style well for a few seasons too, they just look average since opposition teams cottoned on how to nullify them

Can’t think of any other big club who play that way ,which is strange because if it is as effective as some would have us believe, you would like to think they’d all be implementing said system? 🤔

bada bing1

Watching Ben Doak terrorising Sevco youths on BT sport just now

Rebus67

McCaff,

Thanks for the article on the RB brand. As I read it one thought kept running through my brain. One is normally all I can cope with!

What was the thought, you may ask?

Before answering that, you must realise that I am a prisoner. I am a prisoner of what I used to do for a living…..an academic. A poor shuffling soul who wore a black gown and mortar board over his jeans and balding head. A creature of the questions….both answering them and asking them. All hope of change has long since disappeared even quicker than the sale of public assets under a Truss administration.

But, what is this! You say I am rambling again! Forsooth and Gadzooks, you are correct.

What was I saying? Ah Yes, the thought, the idea running through my brain?

It was “transfer pricing” …….a tool much loved by Multinationals. Remember them, competition crushers, some would say unelected global governments.

Multinationals love transfer pricing because it allows them to control their profits and where they are taxed.

Suppose I am a sewing machine company with branches in the US and in Ireland. Ireland has a lower corporate tax rate than The US. At one time Ireland’s corporate tax rate was zero! The US and Irish firms can buy and sell materials, parts etc from one another. The transfer price is the internal price of an internal transaction. One firm’s revenue is another’s cost. So, if the US firm buys widgets from the Irish firm at a high price, it inflates its costs, reduces its profit and thus its tax paid in the US. Meanwhile, the Irish firm has artificially high sales and, thus, profit. However, who cares! It pays no tax on these profits, or less tax.

What does this mean for the RB Empire? It means they have a lot of control over transfer fees between clubs in the Empire. It also means if one needs, a CB, they will get one within their budget. From a corporate perspective, RB can transfer profits to jurisdictions where taxes are lower.

It might not be a bad idea for Austrian, German, US governments etc to examine transfers between RB clubs. I am sure it is all above board.

Rebus

jimthetim53

Very interesting Rebus! I bet Dermot Desmond knows a thing or two about shifting money around.

McCaff

Rebus… forgive me but it’s an obvious point you make! The largest chicken supplier in Europe is a currently under investigation for the very reasons you suggest Red Bull’s practices should be investigated. But like all large corporations every avenue to circumvent authority and local/national taxes will be explored. Red Bull are no different from Amazon, eBay, Starbucks etc. I’d expect the City Group operate in exactly the same way – they’d be bloody daft not to, to be honest!
From a fitba point of view though, they’ve got it right. A network of contacts and a constant supply of talent at every level. Our disadvantage is being one relatively small Club trying to do well all the things that City Group and Red Bull have teams and teams of executives doing for them. The criticisms of Celtic are sometimes necessary but sometimes we really are just a small fish in a huge, huge pond!

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