Move Along,Nothing To See Here

Morning,all.

Managerial merry-go-round has picked up momentum overnight with the much expected dismissal of Steven Gerrard by Aston Villa. This followed the defeat by newly-promoted yo-yo side,Fulham.

Interesting timing,what with the constant questions being asked of his Ibrox successor,Gio Van Bronckhurst. Maybe the Ibrox entity will fancy going back to the past-one of their favourite places,after all-and bringing him back to Glasgow? You can never second-guess this lot,can you? Let’s face it.anything is possible when you consider what has happened down in Westminster!

Meanwhile,back at the ranch,Celtic will continue to work in the present day. Even welcoming Scottish football into the 21st Century,as it finally introduces VAR. We are a bit late to the party,but that is nothing new. We were the last major gootball association to ban the tackle from behind,even though we were and are a major component of IFAB,the game’s legislatory body. And even now,we have our own relaxed interpretation of that.

I get a feeling,somehow,that we will bring our own unique interpretation too to the concept of VAR. This should not come as a surprise,we have had decades of practice at such things. As far as I am aware,there has been no formal statement from our domestic refereeing bodies on the parameters of the system. No mention of how it will be used,under which circumstances it shall be applied,how far back in play any potential infringement of the laws can be deemed to have had a game-changing effect.

Of course,it has been a feature of the game elsewhere for a few years now-and its application still provides weekly doses of controversy all across the globe,even in those countries which are by now well-versed in its use. We need only go back to last weekend,to perhaps the biggest match-up in the English domestic calendar as Liverpool hosted Man City.

The PGMOL took the correct decision to put Anthony Taylor,one of its most experienced members in charge. He informed both sides prior to the match that his preferred approach to the next 90 minutes would be to let the game flow,that he would not be inclined to blow the whistle for minor infringements. This had a somewhat inevitable outcome as both sides decided to push the boundaries involved,see how far they could get before Taylor deemed that the line had been crossed.

It was a brave decision by the ref,and it had the outcome that he was hoping for. But not quite in the way he intended,as a game of football descended into a remake of Fight Club,where there are no rules. And wouldn’t you just know it? When VAR was required to review an “opening goal” by Man City,there it was-a clear infringement in an earlier phase of play which had been deemed at the time as play on by Taylor,in line with his consistent handling of the game at that point.

No matter,you might have made your decision at the time,but here’s how it works. No goal,free kick to Liverpool.

I await with bated breath such hard and fast application of VAR in Scotland. Though I suspect I’ll be waiting for some time. Our match against Hearts tomorrow will be refereed by Nick Walsh,and overseen by that arbiter of justice,Steven McLean. Each of whom has considerable history with our club,and not in a good way.

Each and every misinterpretation of the new technology will be casually explained by teething problems as we introduce it and officials familiarise themselves with the system. That such could have been so easily avoided will be ignored.

A system like VAR,let’s face it,is something that does not come cheap. It benefits from economies of scale,which means that it can be prohibitively expensive in smaller countries like Scotland. The domestic game could have saved itself some considerable amount of much-needed cash had it enquired of the possibility of outsourcing it to the much-more experienced PGMOL in England,or even to other similar organisations in,say,Germany or France.

It is to our credit,perhaps,that we think we can absorb this new technology and maybe prove that we can do it better than elsewhere,learn from their mistakes and show the rest of the world how it can be done. I doubt though that such thinking is actually part of the plan. We have seen this movie before.

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Above article by BMCUWP

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JOBO POTY Competition

sencelpoty@gmail.com

Jobo Baldie

A sort of repost from last night with a corrected version of the overall points table (thanks ASWGL for the alert!)

*SENTINEL CELTS PLAYER OF THE YEAR 2022-23*
RESULTS FROM GAME #16 – MOTHERWELL 0 CELTIC 4 (ABADA(2), HATATE, KYOGO)

Good evening, friends.
So, don’t listen to those Premier Sports commentators, we really did cruise into the semi final, beating Motherwell very comfortably. No desperation whilst the score remained at 0-0, we just kept sticking to our own game plan, creating chances from some brilliant interplay and the only surprise was that our breakthrough didn’t arrive earlier.
Yet again, the players coming back in did very well, none more so than Liel Abada with his 2 goals and 2 assists (the one for Kyogo took real precision!).
As for the officials, 3 decisions really got me annoyed. Even although they all happened after the game was effectively won, that’s really not the point. 1. A blatant pull back on Abada as he was breaking, right in front of the dug out, no yellow? 2. A blatant infringement on Siegrist to stop a quick throw out, no yellow? 3. Various substitution breaks plus separate stoppages for Giakoumakis and a Motherwell player where the trainer came on both times – time added at the end 1 minute!! People place correct score bets you know (not me, by the way) and would be fuming at that. Harrrruuuummmph!!!!
Anyway, that’s now Abada and Kyogo sharing our top goalscorer spot on 8 goals each. Not a bad return after 16 games played when neither of them have featured in all games.
That’s us now played 16 competitive fixtures this season and we have won 11 with 1 draws and 4 defeats (3 being in Europe). 45 goals scored and 15 conceded.
As for the voting, my thanks as always to the 70 who emailed me their choices.
The total votes cast for each player (with my own choices asterisked) are as follows –
Siegrist: 0
Juranovic: 2
Carter-Vickers: 20
Jenz: 1
Taylor: 13
O’Riley: 18
Hatate*: 65
Mooy*: 31
Abada*: 49
Kyogo: 9
Haksabanovic: 2

Abildgarrd: 0
Maeda: 0
McCarthy: 0
Giakoumakis: 0

And so, the top 5 players receiving POINTS for the game against Motherwell are –
Hatate – 5 pts
Abada – 4 pts
Mooy – 3 pts
Carter-Vickers – 2 points
O’Riley – 1 pt

After 16 games the overall standings are as follows –
36 points – Hatate
26 points – Jota
20 points – Jenz and Taylor
19 points – McGregor
18 points – Carter-Vickers
13 points – Abada
12 points – Juranovic and O’Riley
9 points – Kyogo, Mooy and Welsh
8 points – Bernabei
7 points – Giakoumakis and Haksabanovic
5 points – Forrest and Ralston
3 points – Hart and Maeda
2 points – Turnbull
0 points – Abildgaard, McCarthy, Siegrist and Starfelt

A few wee observations to finish with. Congratulations to Reo Hatate on winning his 5th Man Of The Match Award, with those 5 coming in the last 8 games. Closest to him is Jota with 3 – aye, the first 3 games of the season! Lastly, hands up anyone that expected Kyogo and Mooy to have achieved the same points total so far? And lets be honest, either one of them could now go on a decent run.

Next up it’s a Saturday lunchtime trip through to Edinburgh for a league encounter against Hearts, kick off 12.30pm. And whilst that’s another important game, some folk (allegedly) regard it as a wee warm up for that day’s main event – EKFC v Caledonian Braves at 3.00pm in the 2nd Round of the Scottish Cup 😉
Hail Hail!

Jobo Baldie

Thanks for the lead, Bobby. Fans of every club are voicing worries over what VAR will bring. None think it will benefit their own team. Myself included.
For the record let me start by saying I’ve hated VAR ever since it was introduced. Wrong decisions were what made football unique! But its here and it’s not going to go away.
Something that VAR might provide an answer to is the old claim that decisions “even themselves out”. Now, we will actually be able to see how many decisions go to VAR and which teams benefit/lose from each decision. Maybe someone should prepare a spreadsheet!
I’ve presumed, but haven’t checked, that VAR is only coming in for Scotlands top league and not extended to any of the cup competitions. Or maybe it will feature for the semis and finals?
Anyway, its first use is tonight’s Hibs v St Johnstone game. That’s only available through reliable streams but I might go searching out of curiosity…..

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JOBO

Some very good points made for such a short comment. Probably more succinct than I achieved in the usual lengthy article,though I’m loathe to insult our members by a mere update over a few lines.

Yes,I too will be hoping to watch the match tonight,mainly for the reasons you state. Consistency of application of the laws is all that any football fan has ever really asked for-see last Sunday’s article on the subject-and I have so many doubts that we will see any difference,other than the likelihood of its subjective use being wheeled out to justify certain decisions.

JimmynotPaul

BMCUW/Jobo.
The game is a sell out, at Easter Road, tonight.
Hibs priced it at a tenner and because they moved it from 3.00 Sat, they are now selling it on PPV, also, at a tenner.
Dundee Utd v Dons was moved to a Saturday night and wasn’t far off a sell out, either, biggest attendance for a Dundee United v Dons game for many years, no reduction in price tickets, for that game, that I’m aware off.
My point is, going forward, this could become new normal Fri eve, Sat tea time, games, for some SPFL, that aren’t live on Sky.
If not live and not Sat 3 p.m. then, I think new rules say, clubs can PPV 6 home games a year.
Interesting times, won’t affect us, too much, as most of our away games are live.

Jobo Baldie

Oh and VAR wouldn’t have changed any of my 3 gripes that I mentioned in my results post.
VAR doesn’t overturn every wrong decision,even clear ones like incorrectly awarded corners etc. Unless the error directly links to a goal, like last qeeks Liverpool Man City one. If that move had led to a corner and THEN a goal, it wouldn’t have been chopped off. I think…

Morning All,

Re VAR, caught a couple of seconds of the podcast on the previous thread and they were discussing VAR up here. One of the presenters mentioned that in England, at every game, they have 33 cameras (including 4 slow motion & 4 HD slow motion) whereas we will have SIX.

There’s yer Teething Problem right there.

HH

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CALTONTONGUES

Yep,and that’s why many of us wanted it outsourced to other organisations with the experience and resources to do the job properly.

jimthetim53

I would like to hear Sol Kitts’ opinion on VAR as he has watched elsewhere. Where they don’t have the biased ref. set ups.

BMCUWP,

Yes, I agree it should have been outsourced but we know why it wasn’t.

Now, having seen the VAR camera at the back of the Debenture Stand at Ibrox (always think of the Greyhounds for some reason), can you imagine the damage the animals will do to it if (I Know, I Know), a VAR decision goes against them?

HH and back to work!

I see we get the Saturday semi final on 14 January.

K.O. 5.30pm

HH

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JIMTHETIM53

I suspect you will read plenty tomorrow!

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The four criteria where VAR will be applied. (Watch this space)

Any issue involving a straight red card.

Any incident involving a penalty kick.

Any issue involving a goal .. to check for fouls or offside.

Any mistaken identity where a player is carded

Those are the criteria where it WILL be applied. My concern is HOW it will be applied or interpreted in any of the given situations above. Nothing to see here,etc.

Auldheid

It will be interesting to see if by AGM time VAR decisions realise our worst fears. If they do discussion will be hard to avoid.

jimthetim53

In theory it’s a great idea, using technology to review fast live action. But there’s the ‘human’ element to it! Potentially more so up here in Scotland! If only they took up Auldheid’s blue print and farm out some elements of the refereeing service, away from the SFA.

jimthetim53

And get everyone in the refereeing service to state their current & past allegiances.

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JIMTHETIM53

I remember over thirty years ago,living in South London and talking a good few of my mates into an evening in the pub while we watched a Celtic v Rangers match live on tv.

Now,admittedly this was back in the dark and distant past,and more to the point,they were our own dark and dismal years of failure,where not only did we fail to match up to the casino-banking ostentation of Murray,but fell behind the likes of Aberdeen and Motherwell.

But we could usually raise our game for that lot,and we did. Fat lot of use that it did,as the ref took charge with his own idiosyncratic interpretation of the laws. We’ve all seen it,nothing new.

My mates sat there,open-mouthed to begin with,but those mouths were soon being used to full effect as they called out every ridiculous decision,each worse than before.

I explained after the match that what they saw was just how it works up in Scotland,and it goes unchallenged. And that my hope was that matches involving us,matches involving them,the ones that those allegiances come to the fore,would be under such deep scrutiny due to the live coverage,replays,post-match analysis,that we would finally get an even playing field.

I was nearly 30yo at the time,so I don’t even have the excuse of the innocence of youth. I’m twice that age now,and happy to use such events as a defence for my hardened cynicism.

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AULDHEID

I suspect they will be a bone of contention,but mere lip service will be paid. We have seen that in the past,via “strong statements” from those at the top table.

Only once has a chairman or CEO spoke out this century,and he did so in measured terms. We all applauded his sentiments,his words,his balls for doing something we had all been wanting for so long.

And we know how it ended,too.

Gordon64

Premier Sports Cup semi final match between Celtic and Kilmarnock will take place on Saturday, January 14 with a 5.30pm kick-off

St tams

JimmynotPaul
If these clubs would give us and the huns more tickets. They would have 4 sell out crowds without reducing the price or moving to a Friday night.

Auldheid

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AULDHEID

I suspect they will be a bone of contention,but mere lip service will be paid. We have seen that in the past,via “strong statements” from those at the top table.

Only once has a chairman or CEO spoke out this century,and he did so in measured terms. We all applauded his sentiments,his words,his balls for doing something we had all been wanting for so long.

And we know how it ended,too.
===========
Which is why the SC question on referees was put to them.

The reason nothing happens is not down to The Board but because the support do SFA to change things.

The SC question gives supporters a chance to get involved if Celtic take the opportunity presented in it to MAKE it an issue their supporters wish to be raised with the SFA.

But let’s make no mistake where responsibility lies for inaction, the idea it’s all Celtic’s fault.

Perhaps, just perhaps if we lose points down to a dubious VAR intervention before AGM the issue will become one that can no longer be avoided.

It was referee decisions in 2010 that got a resolution adopted at an Open Meeting at St Mary’s then put to Celtic which they were happy to use to pressure the SFA.

The idea here is for Celtic and supporters to work together to achieve aims neither can separately.

The Company Secretary was unaware of what happened in 2010 and the value of a joint approach when we met, but he kens noo.

JimmynotPaul

St Tams. 1.54.
You are right with with you say.
However, if anything, it’s going the other way, the fans of the other clubs have had enough of ” the ugly sisters” as they call us and Sevco.
Two in my family have season tickets with St Mirren and Sandy Armour who does the Killie fanzine is a good friend of mine and Melly.
Quite simply, their fan base don’t want us, there, a bit like a lot of our fan base don’t want Sevco fans, at Parkhead/ Celtic Park, Paradise/Parkers. 😂
St Mirren have a buy a virtual ticket, in addition to buying a season ticket, to try and make up the short fall.
Killie have buy an additional season ticket, scheme.
Here’s the attendance for past 5 years.
It proves your point, G.

Season 2018/19 – 7288

Season 2019/20 – 6797

Season 2020/21 – N/A due to COVID

Season 2021/22 – 6596

Season 2022/23 – 6331

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AULDHEID

The refs in Scotland have been so used to getting away with it up here that they are genuinely insouciant about potential sanction,and frankly CGAF about them as they will never happen.

A case in point re the man of the moment McLean being the infamous Josh Meekings incident at Hampden in 2012. 6 officials. Cameras everywhere. Decision made and club officials unable to speak out on the subject due to SFA policy.

While that policy continues,so too will the behaviours of the referees.

maccargo

Love the gaffers answer to VAR!

Leggy

Afternoon all,

Mrs L is away for a nice meal with her friend, who is celebrating her 70th.

It’s in Glasgow and I said “ I’ll go for a couple of pints and might catch up later “ 😜😜

So far

MacConnells, top of Hope St and has its own CSC 💚💚💚
Molly Malones ( For Irish Stew !!! ) Sorry Jobo 😱

The Griffin, opposite the Kings Theatre and newly reopened 🍺🍺

Bloc. – It’s in Bath St, underground and mostly youngsters so I fit right in 🎶🎶

Lastly, I’m hoping to make the Potstill for a wee dran 🥃

Then meet Mrs L. 😱😱😱😱😱

Could be interesting 😜😜😜

Leggy

#Dram – Oops !!!!!

SFTB

A wee reminder that Superbru starts tonight with the historic VAR-first Hibs V St. Johnstone game

Auldheid

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AULDHEID

The refs in Scotland have been so used to getting away with it up here that they are genuinely insouciant about potential sanction,and frankly CGAF about them as they will never happen.

A case in point re the man of the moment McLean being the infamous Josh Meekings incident at Hampden in 2012. 6 officials. Cameras everywhere. Decision made and club officials unable to speak out on the subject due to SFA policy.

While that policy continues,so too will the behaviours of the referees.
==================
I agree that as long as supporters think nothing will change, nothing will change.

VAR Scotland:

https://postimg.cc/RqWLk49b

HH

Leggy

The first VAR decision in Scotland,

After a wee pub crawl I Met Mrs L and said I was ok !!!!

She looked at me and referred to VAR ???

Red card 🟥

Sent off and currently in Kitty O’Sheas myself looking to appeal the decision 👍👍😜😜🍺🍺

I love VAR 💚💚

Craig76

Leggy
Is VAR the barmaid 😉

Leggy

Craig76,

I’ll check if she’s onside 😜😜😜

Frodshambhoy

Had a v quick read through following several beers by the pool in Tenerife. It’s a hard life, I know
Apologies if it’s been mentioned but Seething G is a living example of how refereeing in particular and football in general works in Scotland compared to England and the rest of the world

Craig 76

Mike in Toronto

Might be well intentioned, but tomorrow’s Celtic jersey is unquestionably the ugliest Celtic jersey in the history of the club.

https://www.67hailhail.com/news/celtic-team-to-wear-special-adidas-tops-at-tynecastle-in-support-of-lgbtq-communities/

Leggy

We move on Celtic. Great gesture for tomorrow..

HH 💚💚💚

big packy

well back home safe and sound, the M25 was running ok for a friday, as was the M40, it was the M6 as usual that was the problem JCT14 to JCT19 a feckin nightmare, it was like that just before i retired in 2012 nothing changes, must tell you about my breakfast, got a knock on the door of my cab at 7 this morning, it was solkitts here packy ive got you some breakfast, 2 hard boiled eggs and a bottle of water, EH thanks sol, he stood there for about 10 seconds then i thought he wants paying, how much sol ,ach well seen as its you just give me 20 quid, FFS i know ayrshire tims are tight but that is taking the biscuit,🤩🤩another true story🤩

Gordon64

https://www.celticfc.com/news/2022/october/21/celtic-support-love-unites-campaign-this-weekend/ 💚
Celtic players will be wearing an item from the collection in tomorrow’s warm-up for Hearts, with these tops to then be signed by the team and sold online to raise money for both Celtic FC Foundation’s Christmas Appeal and registered charity LGBT Youth Scotland. 👍

Call me Gerry

Great gesture tomorrow. Tops worn in warm up to be signed by players and used to raise money for good cause. 👏👏

HH

bada bing1

First VAR Decision from Easter Rd

VERDICT- PENALTY RANGERS

Margaret McGill

MIT
It looks a bit gay.

Craig 76

This might explain why Ange has not mentioned the refs

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“I’ve been here 16 months now, how many times have I mentioned referees after a game? I know it’s a favourite subject up here and after a game it’s the main talking point for the most part, but it just does not interest me.”
Ange Postecoglou
8:25 pm · 21 Oct 2022
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Billy Bhoy

Oh well, so much for VAR.
Magennis of Hibs booked for pulling out of a challenge and then booked again – so off!

And, of course, St Johnstone turn the game around. Absolute joke!

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MIKEINTORONTO

Any green in that rainbow strip? I’ve no real problem with the idea,but a rainbow without green isn’t a rainbow.

Anyway,anytime the rainbow flag gets mentioned always reminds me of my hun mate Jimmy fae Dennistoun. Some bloke,a really good guy in so many ways-otherwise we wouldn’t be mates-but not so much in others. The anti-Catholic bigotry was no problem for me,I could swat it aside. His other forms of bigotry,again not so much. Eventually he knew just to shut up in my company. He could think what he liked,no re-education policy in my or other company was ever likely to have an effect. But he knew better than to think out loud.

Anyway,off we went to Bristol one Saturday morning and he decided to take two sharp rights from the station rather than the tried and tested straight on to the old docks area. Yes,he decided to “Go West,Young Man”

Took us about half an hour to find the nearest pub-and he refused to go in because it was flying a rainbow flag! I was furious-and thirsty!-but naw,he wasn’t having it. There was another one about five minutes away,much better place anyway as it turned out.

“Two pints of lager,please” etc. The barman asked if we had just moved in,not having seen us before. I explained the day trip from Swindon,no strangers to Bristol but Jimmy had decided to screw up the plans,made worse by refusing to go into a nearby pub because of a rainbow flag. And that this pint was much needed while I calm down about that last bit,my displeasure plain.

Take your time and relax sir. £6.40 please,as I handed him a tenner. You’ll be most welcome in here to gather your thoughts,as is your friend. If he nips out for a cigarette,he will see our own rainbow flag.

I burst out laughing,told the barman to keep the change for giving me the best laugh I was likely to have all weekend,and pointed out to Jimmy that he might not like this,but his face was turning all the colours of the rainbow!

JimmynotPaul

Billy Buoy 9.14.
VAR don’t check yellow cards.
As sending off was 2 yellows, VAR wouldn’t have been involved with either booking.
Edited, unless mistaken identity ( thanks BMCUW )

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BILLYBHOY

Neither of the cards fell under the four criteria I mentioned at 1126 this morning.

Cosy Corner Bhoy

Great night here in Irvine CSC
Place jumping and we are only at the warm up act!
Looking forward to the star turn though if there any rebel songs left for her to sing I’ll be surprised😀

bada bing1

7 subs,3 VAR referrals, 3 minutes added,no matter how many tools they get,they will always remain tools.

Sol Kitts

Jimthetim53 from earlier this morning.
Sorry for taking so long to reply, it was a long day at work, then off to get our 4th Covid jabs.
Anyway, to VAR. My thoughts are that, used correctly, it would enhance the game. My initial fear was that it would interrupt the flow of the game – unlike rugby, where its equivalent is used successfully, football is not start/stop – but across Europe they have managed to mitigate this issue.
I also felt it would be too clinical, and to an extent this is happening. We recently got away with one in Europe where an attacker was deemed offside by the length of half his foot. I would have it set up that if the margin of offside couldn’t possibly be seen in real time by an assistant ref in perfect position, the attacker should get the benefit of the doubt.
The use of slow motion replays also devalues VAR. Everything looks worse when you see it in slo-mo. It can make so-so tackles look like leg breakers.
My biggest fear about VAR, though, is that corrupt referee set ups will use it to legitimise cheating, backing up clearly incorrect decisions because of an inbuilt bias. My views on this are well documented on this blog. VAR can only be as useful as those who sit behind the screen decide it should be. They have a choice to make, help the ref come to a correct decision or help him subvert the Laws of the Game. I would hope they do the former, but fear they will settle for the latter.
One way to reduce this possibility (probability?) among our refs would be to follow the rugby example, wire the refs up, and let the fans hear the conversations between them and the VAR control room, let us hear the justification for decisions changed or otherwise. What have they got to fear from this if they’re doing the job honestly? It works for the egg chasers.

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