Transfer fees and the complicating factors

Morning,all.

JOBO brings us today’s article,with a view on how complicated the setting of a transfer fee can be.

~~~~~~

Bobby’s article on Tuesday concerning the possible departures of Juranovic and Giakoumakis certainly sparked debate on these pages but one thing that appeared to be missing was in relation to the factors that feed into any likely transfer fees.

It’s inevitable and understandable that when we see some of the inflated transfer fees paid for fairly ordinary players then we rightly expect our own superstars to have similar price tags attached. And when one of our own performs so well during the world cup then figures of £20M and upwards seem entirely plausible. So why then do much more modest figures of £6M or £7M start to appear in the papers? I think that the answer lies in the fine details of individual contracts.

Now admittedly what follows is pure speculation on my part so please do feel free to tear the argument apart. But anyway, here’s how I imagine that most discussions go when any player is joining any top club, Celtic included.

As well as negotiating the transfer fee with the selling club, the new club and player have to agree terms on such things as the player’s basic salary, any performance related bonuses, any loyalty bonuses and, crucially, any release clause in the event that the player opts to cut his contract short and sign for someone else. So, when Celtic sign a new player it is obviously in their best interest to have any release clause pitched as high as possible, along the lines of “…should the player wish to terminate the 4 year contract early, any potential buying club must offer a transfer fee of at least £20M….”. But surely it’s not as simple as that? Wouldn’t aplayer’s agent then argue “well, if you rate this guy as being worth £20M it follows that his salary should reflect so how about doubling what you have offered as his basic wage…?” 

So, there’s bound to be a bit of give and take on both sides. If Celtic offer a new player even £20K per week for a 4-year contract the agent might argue that there should also be a release clause of say £5M. Or it might even be more detailed than that with the clause being “…if you want to leave during the first 18 months it’ll take a £15M offer, if it’s between 18 months and 3 years it’ll be £9M… etc etc…”

Of course, regardless of contracts and release clauses, players can potentially be sold at any time if the conditions and price are right. But usually that requires some sort of bidding war. 

So, taking Josip Juranovic as an example it is possible (I’ve really no idea!) that there’s a release clause of £8M and that’s the basis for the figures in the papers. And if a club has met that valuation AND if it’s a club that Josip is happy to go to (either because of the particular country he’d be playing in or because he’d get a huge increase in wages, etc) AND if there’s no interest from elsewhere then there’d be little Celtic could do unless we were prepared to ourselves offer a new, improved contract. However, if several clubs became interested after seeing Josip’s world cup displays and started tabling offers then we could then feasibly expect the offers to climb higher and higher to try to close the deal.

So, I suppose what I’m getting here is 2 things. Firstly, we shouldn’t be too critical of Celtic whenever we sell a player for a seemingly low fee. Without knowing the ins and outs of that player’s contract we simply don’t know whether Celtic could have done more to either retain the player or to secure a bigger transfer fee. And secondly, I’m not sure that the SMSM are any more informed than you or I. So, when they attach transfer fees to players sold (recent eyebrow raising ones include Patterson to Everton for £12M and Bassey to Ajax for £18M – really??) then I think that they too are simply guessing.

I never get hung up on transfer fees for Celtic players, whether incoming our outgoing. IN the past we’ve spent £6M on players that failed to live up to that price tag. On the other hand I do remember securing a young Swede for just £650,000, all because our new Dutch manager rememberedthat there was such a release clause in the player’s contract with Feyenoord!

<><><><><>
Above article gratefully received from JOBO

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Auldheid
January 12, 2023 4:17 am

Auldheid
Aw Naw

Professional Game Board

Chair: Michael Mulraney (Scottish FA)

Members: Ian Maxwell (Scottish FA), Neil Doncaster (SPFL), Leslie Gray (SPFL), Michael Nicholson (SPFL), Ken Ferguson (SPFL), Duncan Fraser (SPFL), Finlay Noble (SHFL) and Tom Brown (SLFL).

July 15, 2020,
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/aberdeen-fc/2337260/duncan-fraser-to-step-down-from-aberdeen-non-executive-director-role/

Friday 9th April 2021
https://spfl.co.uk/news/ken-ferguson-steps-down-from-spfl-board

Can I presume that both these gentlemen are no longer part of the Professional Game Board ?

Tom Brown (SLFL) is the Scottish Lowland Football League chairperson whose casting vote introduced the Old Firm Colts into the lowland league ( https://slfl.co.uk/news/ ) I wonder what side he thinks his bread is buttered

Leslie Gray (SPFL)

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=5bb786a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=ec2b86a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

Definitely a bit of football parasite behaviour here. Going by company house records ( A spiv and conman)
Joint owner of Hamilton Academicals along with Tom Browns favourite sponsor

Michael Mulraney (Scottish FA) very similar Companies house record to Leslie Gray tried to become FIFA vice president last year but failed. That´s ambitious. He is a massive advocate of introducing facial recognition technology into Scottish football. Mhhhh I wonder where he got that idea. Dermot will be pleased.

When The Sun begins a news article with the words. “A “body” e.g “SCOTTISH Premiership clubs are set to ” or ” CELTIC are set to go to the SFA to raise fresh concerns about the VAR ” are set to …” then it´s massive pile of made up pish i.e Celtic haven’t complained and the Professional Game Board themselves don´t even know who they are.

One last tip anybody dare even mention to you the phrase “unconscious bias” take it from me they are a fraud probably with a list of failed directorships on Companies house or working for somebody that does and more than likely possessing a green hue, don’t let that fool you.

=====================
That information was taken from SFA web site

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottish-fa/organisation/strategy-structure/who-we-are/board-committees/ it is still there and does not reflect Duncan Fraser stepped down in July 2020 or Ferguson in 2021.

I cannot find who replaced them.

If Michael Mulraney is still the Chair the accusations made against the SPFL by Rangers might cause some unconscious bias on his part?

https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/alloa-athletic/news/alloa-chairman-mike-mulraney-dismisses-rangers-dispute-with-spfl_398323.html

or

perhaps his response to Rangers complaints about Alloa narrowing the pitch might play a part.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/alloa-chief-mike-mulraney-rangers-7352189

Les Gray is definitely dodgy according to someone with Hamilton Accie connections who holds that view. He status as joint owner is not how the current CEO sees it. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/hamilton-not-sale-colin-mcgowan-27179119/ It is possible he has some position that allows him to be on the SFA PMG but not what we would consider a “friendly”.

The fact that The SFA have not updated their web site does not mean The PMG does not exist nor does it mean its a pile of pish if the Sun reported it. Other Scottish papers did too.

To then use the SFA failure to update their web site to suggest Celtic have made no complaint to no SFA board is pushing it too far, even for you?

Auldheid
January 12, 2023 4:36 am

Jobo

Any thing that provides an insight into how things work in the real world of football is useful in my view.

The factors you set out must play a part in negotiations and it is good to see them aired.

Frodshambhoy
January 12, 2023 5:37 am

Jobo.
Exactly, well said that man 👍.
There’s also the factor that a low release clause value means money will be available to the new club to offer as a signing on fee to encourage the player to join them. It therefore makes sense for agents to play hardball when negotiating the release clause part of a player’s contract.

GER57
January 12, 2023 6:22 am

Good article Jobo.
Each transfer is unique and the fee for each will take into account many factors. So far, Celtic have said nothing about fees for either JJ or GG. The meeja exaggerated the fees Sevco achieved when they sold Bassey and Aribo by several million pounds, and the true figures were revealed when their year end accounts were published. We must remember that the MSMs job in Scotland is to keep the Klan onside and maintain the feel good factor towards all things Sevco, and of course to unsettle us Tims at every turn.
Most players’ contracts will contain a release clause, stipulating the minimum fee to be met for a move within the contract period. Therefore, if a buying club matches the minimum fee, and the player wants to go, the selling club has no option but to accept the deal. C’est la vie!!
I really don’t get worked up by transfer fees, because I have no idea what’s in the current contracts. Neither will anyone else, outwith the principals to the contract. I’m pretty sure Celtic will not undersell any outgoing player. I’d think by now that Celtic are well versed in transfer dealings and won’t be outmanoeuvred. As a fan, it makes no difference how much we pay or receive in a player transfer. Kenny Dalglish was sold for a record fee but I was just gutted because we’d lost a superstar. Henrik was a steal at £650k, and made a poor first impression, but look what we had for seven glorious years.
We also don’t know why players want to leave. There are rumours of GGs family not settling in Glasgow. If so, then it’s understandable that he wants to move. Both JJ and GG are in their late 20s, so we can’t blame them if they take advantage of their contracts terms to achieve their final big deal. We’d all do the same, if we could.

CFC
January 12, 2023 8:09 am

An agonising stream of consciousness – your acute rational awareness is definitely disturbing.

(BMCUWP Edit-above comment refers to a deleted post,NOT the article)

CFC
January 12, 2023 8:20 am

Jobo

Thanks for the article.
An issue which must have an impact on maximising onward sales.
Canny players can use such contractual commitments to their advantage, and to the disadvantage of the club – see “fat boy” c G Taylor.
“Numerous” bids ignored by the club have led to a situation where the player is now earning vastly in excess of his worth, on a contract that is virtually worthless to his club.

Auldheid
January 12, 2023 9:41 am

Joost Read it etc.

Are you using Microsoft Edge as your browser?

You may have gone over it.

Sorry I couldnt resist it.

bada Bing 1
January 12, 2023 10:14 am

Jeff Beck RIP

Auldheid
January 12, 2023 10:24 am

CFC

Although written a good number of years ago this blog on player power still applies and is a factor in transfer dealings.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1617TBPOCzSfxtMfRWI9LUZgVQ3SlBOFDrj-vekfHEBo/edit?usp=drivesdk

CFC
January 12, 2023 10:42 am

Thanks for access to the article Auldheid.

I think the basic premise of socialist philosophy referred to has gone the way of those greats who were still relatable to supporters when it was a working class sport, and heroes lived amongst us.

Plutocracy has become the defining system, with merit/ ability rewarded above all else.
With supporters happily feeding the ever growing beast.

Billy Bhoy
January 12, 2023 10:44 am

You make some excellent points there Jobo!

I’m very relaxed about our transfer activity tbh. I know a sizeable chunk of our fans are seeing the current unsettled situation and !inking it to the return of PL but unless I see firm evidence of meddling I intend to remain calm.

That may be down largely to the 9 point gap, the gulf between us and Sevco, and the fact that there will be no one arriving at Ibrox to cause us to lose any sleep.

CFC
January 12, 2023 11:01 am

Thanks for the reference to the article Auldheid.
I think the premise of Socialist philosophy in football has long gone, sadly the same way as the greats mentioned.
Once relatable , our heroes lived amongst us.

We now have a Plutocracy, where merit/ ability is over rewarded. The impact is plain to see. It appears to be what supporters want, so the beast is constantly fed.
Perhaps football is destined to eventually eat itself.

CFC
January 12, 2023 11:44 am

Apologies for double post. Thought I’d lost first and rewrote from memory

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
January 12, 2023 12:05 pm

CFC

My fault. There were a few comments in the filters,and I inadvertently reinstated both of yours with the others.

Btw,I hope my addendum to your 809 post is correct!

CFC
January 12, 2023 12:14 pm

BMCUW

Ha!
It refers to Joost read It’s post which has been deleted I guess.
And in no way reflects on Jobo’s fine article!

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
January 12, 2023 12:17 pm

JOBO

An excellent summary of where we are in relation to player power,agents, and to how they can drive forward a move for a transfer.

However,if I’d been told by my agent-or come to the conclusion myself-that I was an in-demand top player,yet discovered that the only actual offers on the table were from Denmark and two loan/option to by deals from relegation threatened Italian minnows,I’d be having a good look in the mirror followed by a search for a reputable agent.

That’s three offers max between the two players,so seems they aren’t as in demand as they thought. So not in control of the situation either.

Personally I’m in the camp that doesn’t want unhappy players. We know how that turns out. But we shouldn’t even consider selling on the cheap just to cut them loose.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
January 12, 2023 12:18 pm

CFC

Good stuff. I figured as much.

Awe Naw
January 12, 2023 12:19 pm

Auldheid,

That the SFA haven’t updated their website due to the fact the PGB has lost representation and hasn’t updated it or even replaced it’s lost members in over two years does not fill me full of confidence. Why should it?

So PGB consists roughly of a chair. One SFA rep, One SPFL rep, Two Old Firmists. Two SPFL, Two SFL, One lower league and one highland league.

VAR is not really a pressing concern of those out with the SPFL

Id be amazed if this summit wasn’t already scheduled 3 months before var was introduced. They’d be negligent if it wasn’t.

Yes I’m sure some recommendations with regards VAR and mainly handball situations will be discussed and recommendations to the corresponding bodies will I expect be made. I suspect that’s an ongoing process. Nothing to do with Celtic complaining or anything we may object too. They’d again be negligent if it wasn’t.

Maybe getting cameras to work and all angles covered is a good start. More money for Peter’s bhoy.

That shouldn’t concern us as much as the content in Andrew Smiths article with regards the officiating with regards the huns and their mibs.

Why not publicize the actions that we have agitated for so far and managed to bring it to the table ourselves? Why does the SFA or the SPFL not publish it? I reckon cos there’s nothing to publish because nothing out of the ordinary is happening. It’s business as usual. In other words “SUMMIT” my arse. Have the red tops fly a flag

FFP resulted in a ten year old Scottish team with only a 5 year run at the top level almost winning the EL fully sponsored by the SFA and Brian Quinn being canonized by the Celtic faithful. How’d that happen?

The PGB strikes me as just being a conduit for communication between the Old Firm parties. There’s nothing happening here. Goldson’s next handball may get a review but any overhaul of Scottish officiating is undesirable and will not happen.

The only way to exact change is to do something anything that might harm income streams. That’s beyond the Celtic support.

Chairbhoy
January 12, 2023 12:26 pm

Good Morning Celts – Grand Day To Be A Tim

Worked yesterday without a face mask, first time in almost three years – sigh and breath!! 😮

Great piece Jobo,

Grounded and full of common sense as always

The football transfer business seems all over the place and values fluctuate incredibly.

As I speculated the other day there will be levels of performance that will be reviewed by the buying clubs – domestic league, both in terms of the players performance in the league and how highly, or otherwise, that domestic league is perceived

There is also a similar situation for a players international performances, how do they perform for the international team and how well rated is that country’s NT – of course we could factor in not being an internationalist at all, but for what country?

Our two biggest sales were KT who even though wasn’t regarded as the best Scotland left back, was regarded as a key player in the team and Moussa who wasn’t a full international, being French even if you are struggling to get into the top half dozen of the NT’s strikers, you can still be a top player

Yet for me Europe wise the UCL will be the gold standard, can you cut it in that competition? Mudryk showed a good UCL campaign will see your value soar – and supply and demand really comes into play

Yet what you say regarding the players’ contracts and the “hidden” detail is huge unless you can get the bidding going between wealthy Clubs you are bound by the vagaries of the small print.

Having said all that it is noticeable that the smooth and highly successful player trading of the last eighteen months is juddering a bit, this of course could be down to clear-air turbulence and some of the factors at play are highlighted in the lead, or it, goodness forbid, could be the turbulence from a large elephant parachuting through the roof and into the Boardroom

As a wiser man than I once said – we’ll see…

Hail Hail

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
January 12, 2023 12:44 pm

CHAIRBHOY

Musta cost you a fortune in masks! Can’t really blame you though-or anyone taking that precaution. The pandemic may be over officially but the figures suggest otherwise.

IniquitousIV
January 12, 2023 12:47 pm

Haven’t read back, so don’t know if this has been covered. After three recent incoming transfer negotiations, which appear, on the face of it, to have been implemented quickly and efficiently, the haggling over Cho Gue-Sung seems inordinately protracted, with the danger of losing him to the MLS growing. One wonders why this is, and those like me, with inclinations of paranoia, are left wondering if it is simply coincidental with the recent return from the wilderness of a certain sharp suited man. As a certain inestimable wise man, a frequent poster here, is wont to say, “We’ll see.”

Auldheid
January 12, 2023 12:53 pm

Aw Naw

When the Company Secretary agrees with me

1. The matter goes wider than Celtic.
2. Is not able to work on The Foundation announcement that he was involved in for over a year because his time has been taken up on the VAR issue I have two choices.
A Think him a liar.
B Believe him .

When he later comes good on crediting shareholders for The Foundation announcement then I have every reason to believe I was told the truth.

Using the PGB as the taking it wide vehicle ESPECIALLY as it brings all SPFL clubs to the table under Doncaster who reports to those clubs who cannot be happy at how VAR is damaging the very product the game depends on for a living, seems to me a thoughtful idea.

You dont but you have less to work on than I have.

What I find interesting is that when something turns up that even hints that Celtic are working professionally to address an issue the only answer is to the core belief The Board are deceivers is to call into question the veracity of what they say they are doing.

A vicious cycle driven by mistrust on either side that does not serve Celtic as a whole (because it is divisive) well.

Auldheid
January 12, 2023 1:02 pm

CFC

As that article ends

Those days, however, have gone.

“With supporters happily feeding the ever growing beast.”

Spot on we fuel the fire that burns us.

Leggy
January 12, 2023 1:04 pm

Jobo,

Great article 👏👏👏👏

Time for a spreadsheet Methinks. 😜😜😜

bada Bing 1
January 12, 2023 1:10 pm

Always intriguing to hear Alan McManus ,talking about match fixing in snooker….

vfr800
January 12, 2023 1:11 pm

Excellent points Joe. I think some other aspect to consider here is that Ange Postecoglu has no interest in players who do not want to be at the club so he won’t stand in anyone’s way. I also think that Michael Nicholson will look at player cost, current value and cost of replacement in reaching a figure of what the club will accept when a player transfers.

£7M or £8M for two players who cost £5M in total and who’s replacements will cost around £6M (£3.5M for AJ and a potential £3M for a striker) will still leave the club with a profit of £4M or £5M – not bad for 2 players who have been tremendous servants to the club over the last 18 months.

The Leopard’s Rimshot
January 12, 2023 1:16 pm

Auldheid, from last night’s thread:

‘Are you dismissing as a lie the significant work Celtic claim to have made to shareholders in AGM papers and AGM itself into FSR that is an attempt to address what is the source of much we complain about i.e how the SFA and Rangers behave?’

No, mate, I was talking about how Celtic players, staff and support keep being violently assaulted at Ibrox and the board say and do nothing to stop it.

As for their contributions to FSR I only have your word for that and you only have theirs and I’d need to see the evidence for it myself before deciding on their involvement, for as you say, ‘Celtic CLAIM’ and claims are not facts without tangible evidence to back them up.

Btw, I loved your Slow Glass story from yesterday and the Henley poem was nice and I largely agree with it but we’re clearly not masters of our own destiny when we’re forced to wear masks at work every day for 3 years or potentially lose our job as has happened to friends of mine.

If you can be kicked onto the street after years of loyal service for refusing to follow such an arbitrary order then we self evidently have a lot less power than we think.

The Leopard’s Rimshot
January 12, 2023 1:19 pm

Good article, Jobo, a lot of speculation in there of course but overall a thought provoking read.

And the reason your thoughts are so speculative is because the general public are not allowed into the murky world of how football works and that is the problem we’ve been saying all week and indeed for years, the game lacks transparency on every level, probably because it’s so seedy and corrupt at heart that it would wholly collapse under the slightest scrutiny.

Cheers again, man, good reading is always appreciated.

Chairbhoy
January 12, 2023 1:22 pm

BMCUWPS @ 12:44 pm,

Yes, I believe the masks were a sound precaution but for my colleagues and I a compulsory one

So we didn’t have a choice, short of walking away and for various reasons some did

The PPE and “lockdown” measures are looked at by Public Health England (PHE) on a case by case basis and they said earlier this week we can take off the masks

A feeling of returning normality has hit after thirty four months

Hope your dads recovery is on track.

Hail Hail

Awe Naw
January 12, 2023 1:26 pm

Auldheid,

you write

damaging the very product the game depends on for a living

In Scotland that product is the Old Firm as the voting structure illustrates.

What Celtic supporters as a community fail to understand/accept/admit is that we are an integral part of it and will play our part accordingly. As you know better than anyone. an interesting side note was our participation in Leslie Gray’s failed venture, As Lord Hodge’s judgement Illustrated – let´s say willing but unable

It´s more in the games power brokers interest to try and maintain the illusion that it is a close competition rather than a fair one. As they have only one interest and that is in making money for 1) their employer 2) their industry and 3) themselves. What priority 1 2 and 3 take with those individuals is entirely up to them. 1 2 and 3 will not be compromised due to anything egalitarian. That´s where we differ. You think B and I think A . Instinctively that is there main aim when they come to any table,

The previous company secretary knowingly used to lie for a living and got promoted. As well you know.

Until we accept as a support that we are Thee major player within the Old Firm and that Celtic PLC /FC is mainly a tool to allow it´s biggest shareholder to ingratiate himself with the establishment nothing will change. Unless we start to boycott Scottish cup games ..maybe just one or two. Yes I know I am being ridiculous

St tams
January 12, 2023 1:29 pm

Jobo , excellent article.
I would have thought that we would not sign the Korean guy before GG moves on . So this could drag out a bit.
As for JJ , we already have his replacement.

What concerns me are any of the replacements an upgrade . As , that as what are needed if we are to make an impact in CL next season.

The Leopard’s Rimshot
January 12, 2023 1:58 pm

bada bing1

‘Always intriguing to hear Alan McManus ,talking about match fixing in snooker….’

No John Higgins?

He seems to have quite a bit of knowledge in how it works also …

The Leopard’s Rimshot
January 12, 2023 2:04 pm

Awe Naw:

‘It´s more in the games power brokers interest to try and maintain the illusion that it is a close competition rather than a fair one.’

👏👏👏

They no longer even attempt the illusion of fairness and are happy to rub it right in the Celtic support’s faces.

Jobo Baldie
January 12, 2023 2:09 pm

Good afternoon, friends and thanks for the generally positive responses.
TLR at 1.18 – I’m likely to be in the minority on here but I once did get sight of the contract of a very high profile player playing his trade in Scotland. I was blown away by the amount of detail included and although it was 20 odd years ago the detail has remained with me.
Grandwean duties this afternoon but I’ll try to post something this evening. Identities will remain confidential, of course 😉

The Leopard’s Rimshot
January 12, 2023 2:11 pm

Cheers, Jobo, enjoy your time with the grandkids.

HH

bada Bing 1
January 12, 2023 2:13 pm

TLR- McManus….

The Leopard’s Rimshot
January 12, 2023 2:15 pm

IniquitousIV @ 12:47 pm

I covered this in a comment to ATOB the other night.

I do think that man just can’t help himself wielding his power over those he lorded it over for so long.

And if our suspicions are correct I doubt Ange will hang about for too long in the face of it.

HH

The Leopard’s Rimshot
January 12, 2023 2:16 pm

Aye, Bada, I just thought they’d go for the old 1-2 for the Hell of it.

The Leopard’s Rimshot
January 12, 2023 2:56 pm

Auldheid @1:34 am:

‘ I don’t know what you think they are getting away with that has any lasting value whatsoever.’

Did you really write that, man?!

You’re actually calling me ‘paranoid’ due to my not trusting the Celtic board?!

You mean the same board who enabled Rangers to get a UEFA licence, who stayed quiet throughout Murray’s near decade of cheating, the same board who went along with the birth of Sevco, who still refuse to call it a New Club, the people who lied to your face numerous times, the very same board who are still IN SITU at Celtic Park, still pulling in a fortune from the fanbase and who still haven’t said anything about their staff and support being repeatedly violently assaulted at Ibrox numerous times in the past 5 years alone with the most recent assaults just last week?

It’s these people you don’t know what I think they’re still getting away with?!

Really?

Mate, I’ll tell what is most mind boggling to me right now is that you seem wholly intent on causing an argument with those of us who still DO NOT trust this board and your sole reason for this argument you seem intent on causing is because you’ve spoken to the new Company Secretary and he seems like a nice bloke …

Honestly, man, you really can’t see our point in why we still mistrust both the Celtic PLC and every other body in Scottish football after all these years of negligence and collusion with both clubs playing out of Ibrox and almost every on field decision in that mob’s favour?

Really?

Why are you so intent on attacking us on every point we make against the trustworthiness of these people and why are you so vehemently opposed to what I have to say on Freemasonry in the game when Tom Minogue and plenty others have detailed at length just how prevalent this malignant force is in the running of every aspect of Scottish society?

I have no problem with you trusting them but you can’t expect me to trust them just because you do.

Because if you expect those leopards to suddenly change their spots then I strongly suspect you’ve another think coming.

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
January 12, 2023 3:14 pm

TLR

AULDHEID has had the unfortunate experience of dealing with the board,and he learned some lessons the hard way. He is no trusting ingenue,wet behind the ears. He went to the frontline on behalf of all of us,and we know what happened.

And he is NOT the type of guy who lies down while getting his tummy tickled,that is for sure.

He isn’t asking you or anyone else to believe him,take his word,that things have changed. There is a new game in town and the rules have changed,much for the better. With his experience of dealing with both versions,he much prefers the new one,and they have given him enough reason to offer them the benefit of the doubt.

It is HIS opinion that we should be prepared to trust them going forward,even as we remember the lessons from the past. You obviously disagree,believing that leopards cannot change their spots. Yet yourself,in pre-leopard days,couldn’t make a comment on here without it being deleted!

Can leopards change their spots? Of course not,but in this case it is not the same leopard,and playing comparisons is like apples and oranges. His trust is not offered freely,for he is as suspicious of the board as any of us-and with good reason. So for AULDHEID of all people to be supportive and ask that we give them a chance?

Well,I think AULDHEID has earned OUR trust,and deserves our support. He certainly deserves more than a sock on the jaw every time he attempts to explain why.

The Leopard’s Rimshot
January 12, 2023 3:25 pm

Mick, Auldheid has always had my fullest respect and trust because I know of the work he’s put into this down the years but he literally called me paranoid last night and in the same sentence wholly disregarded every opinion I have on the Celtic board.

And, yes, I deliberately used the leopard analogy to show that I for one am capable of changing my attitude towards people but do you or does anyone here think that the very same board who committed all those sins I’ve just listed are now completely different people and if so why haven’t they said anything at all about the bloody assaults on the Celtic fans and players at Ibrox recently?

Why is everything they do still hidden in silence behind the curtains?

And why would a wise man like Auldheid expect anyone else to trust him and only him that they’ve somehow ‘changed’ as he now appears to be the sole conduit between the board and the support?

I’ve been as polite and considerate as I can be this whole time, both towards Auldheid and everyone else on here, but to have my opinions trashed by accusing me of paranoia and dismissing my entire view of the board is just a direct insult to my intelligence, plain & simple.

I can see that he’s become quite irked with my mistrust over this week and in particular with the known fact that the Scottish game, and society, is run by Freemasonry and I’ve provided clear examples of this, but let’s leave Auldheid to explain why he would insult me like that for himself, as I wouldn’t want you or anyone else answering questions on my behalf either.

With all due respect if I ask a man a question I’d prefer that he answers it himself rather than by his long time buddy.

Cheers.

Mahe
January 12, 2023 3:31 pm

Jobo thanks for the interesting article. Good read.

Twitter has G-Mak away to Sampdoria today. Interesting move for him if true.

Happy day of Thor everyone and get better Jim the Tim.

CFC
January 12, 2023 3:44 pm

Sampdoria? – odds on to be relegated to Serie B.

I guess the relegation battle and more €’s in the bank account make it a more attractive proposition than Titles and CL.
More importantly I hope his replacement has been secured.

16 roads
January 12, 2023 3:46 pm

Excellent article Jobo, thank you.

Food for thought indeed.

Common sense & perspective.

And the moral is the story is… take everything that is written or said in the SMSM with a pinch of salt, particularly in relation to transfer speculation.

HH. 🍀

bada Bing 1
January 12, 2023 3:47 pm

G Mak won’t be going anywhere, unless we get a replacement in first

The Nabbla
January 12, 2023 3:51 pm

Jeff Beck rip

Nessun Dorma

https://youtu.be/bTBCqmBjNxk

============================
Mahe.

GG to sampdoria.

Do you think the media are just going down the tables now? Clueless.
More truth in me goin to farmfoods for milk and its pouring down

Hail Hail

The Leopard’s Rimshot
January 12, 2023 3:56 pm

BMCUWP:

‘ It is HIS opinion that we should be prepared to trust them going forward’ …

To simply accept the word of anyone in the face of all these decades of cheating is sheer folly and the mark of someone who doesn’t trust themselves enough to ascertain the true facts of the matter and at the moment we have no evidence whatsoever that the board have suddenly become an all protective carer tending to the wishes of the support to see a clean fair game in Scotland.

For without transparency there can be no trust as trust must be earned, and over a long period at that, and so far the board has failed to show any of that despite what they may have told Auldheid or anyone else in private.

The only way to establish such trust is via positive and transparent action and the calling of this so called emergency summit may be one step towards progress but that progress can only be measured over time and how the results of said summit actualise themselves in reality.

For I’m certainly not the only Celtic supporter, either on here or elsewhere, to doubt that anything positive will be done, in the same way I knew nothing would be done when the whole thing fell part 11 years ago and Rangers imploded under the weight of their own malignancy.

IF we begin to see positive progress so that Celtic are no longer being cheated week in week out and that Sevco are not being treated with Masonic kid gloves by the refs then I might well change my opinion that the board have become a force for good but until that day I don’t need anyone telling me I should trust them simply on someone else’s say so, as I need to see the facts being played out in reality for myself, as would anyone capable of assessing a situation and wishing to see the proper solution to it being implemented.

Cheers.

Jimbo67
January 12, 2023 4:05 pm

Afternoon from the 7A back to G20

Interesting lead article- says ( better ) what I tried to say the other morning in reply to another leader!

As with most things in life it is hard to work what of what we are being told is ‘puff’, uninformed gossip, informed gossip or something that is more solid but if GG is unhappy then let him go- it has not quite worked out for him at Celtic as he would have hoped when he signed or maybe, given the 2nd half of last season, what he expected. I do assume that prior to the Alistair Johnston signing , Celtic had good reason to believe that acceptable , to Celtic, bids for Juranovic would materialise post-Qatar – I’d be very surprised if the board would, with no supporting evidence, assume bids for the player would materialise.

Anway the bus is crawling past Florist Gum⅝p and the bus has very squeaky windscreen wipers.

Jimbo

McCaff
January 12, 2023 4:08 pm

Afternoon all. I’ve not quite caught up on the readback yet but with regards to the SFA website, when I was doing admin for my wee guy’s team, among a million other tasks, I had to use the SYFA’s website – all linked off course to the SFA site. The SYFA shut down their IT operations for about a YEAR to install a new system! And it didn’t work when they did get it installed. They are seriously amateurish in everything they do, as well as parochial and unanswerable to anyone. The organisation is nothing more than a diktat. I’m no surprised their site’s not being updated, they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.

The Leopard’s Rimshot
January 12, 2023 4:22 pm

McCaff, I don’t believe for a second that they’re incompetent as there’s plenty evidence that the Scottish game has been deliberately undermined with intent.

Aye, maybe the fools appointed may be incompetent but we don’t even know who it is that appoints them as it’s certainly not a transparent democratic process, but whoever is doing the appointing must know that guys like McRae, who can’t even pick balls out of a bowl without f*cking it up, are very useful idiots indeed if the undermining of the game is to continue.

Celtic haven’t been in the Group Stages for years yet Scotland’s newest club can reach a Europa League Final after only 5 years in the top flight, and that a club which shouldn’t even have been allowed into the Scottish leagues in the first place, and only did so with the full backing of the Celtic PLC board who are still all sat in the same comfy chairs sipping the same champagne they were back then and all of it paid for by the fanbase who they’ve repeatedly treated like mushrooms since their arrival.

Scotland’s places in European and international tournaments have been overtaken by countries like Bosnia, Kazakhstan and Israel, which isn’t even in Europe!, and our national game has been left to rot in its own corruption since the early 80s, with seemingly no hope of either change nor revival.

There’s only 3 million people in Croatia and they’ve been silver & bronze medalists in the last two World Cups!

But one thing you’ve nailed dead on is that they ARE both parochial and unanswerable to anyone and have crushed Celtic into near total silence for decades on these major issues affecting our game, with Celtic only ever going public when it’s been a chance to attack their own support.

But I guess I’m just paranoid for pointing out such self evident facts …

HH