Torn over Turnbull
I’m very torn over David, his retention that is.
Should he stay or should he go, should Celtic yes or should they no. Should he just go with the flow?
Any player with 18 months left forces his club to ask questions,,sign a new contract, sell the bloke, or retain and allow to leave as a free agent obviously ala Henke.
Any 23 year old wants to participate, no longer a rookie and having made football his profession it’s all about the here and now.
If he was 28 and not playing regular games I would understand a player in their prime moving to a guaranteed starter position elsewhere, but the lad is 23, his best years are ahead of him, or at least should be.
Ironically I feel he would suit the blue half of the city, but there’s no disputing the fact he’s down in the pecking order under Ange.
Mooy is the new bhoy, Iwata has arrived on the scene in his prime,,,starts will be hard to find in the famous Glasgow Celtics midfield, heartbeat of the team.
Yet the lad has scored two goals in two games. Talk about justifying your selection!
I’m well aware he doesn’t produce those stats consistently but none of our midfielders do.
Hatate hits one now and again as does Calmac, Matt is off the boil, Iwata sits deep. David Turnbull offers more of a goal threat than the rest at this moment clearly.
He’s also a native, always useful in a dressing room growing increasingly continental.
But,,,,,
Ange Postecouglou is one ruthless bassa clearly, Abildgaard and Jenz the perfect examples, thanks but no thanks.
He’s on a quest and cracking Europe is my best guess at his desired destination.
Is DT going to bring us through the Champions League group stages?
No. Not this DT.
He didn’t when given the opportunity,,
he has flaws in his game which hold him back from the next level of footballer,,
he hasn’t kicked onto the next level under Ange and his coaching methods or he would be starting more often,
there’s signs he has hit his ceiling as an SPL standard player.
However SPL players are needed, being the bread and butter and all that. If Iwata, Hatate, or Calmac need rested before a European tie we can clearly count on him to drop into the lineup and perform,,he just did.
He’s in the building with no transfer fee involved, a contract extension on similar wages ought to do it as he’s not in demand (as far as I know).
To some extent I could understand either decision, keeping or moving on. That’s why I’m soo torn, there’s a genuine case for both.
Myself,,I would sign him up again for another couple years, see how things pan out safe in the knowledge he’s a solid option domestically and the foreigners need some homegrown players around them for settling in and footballing reasons.
Would you give him another contract, sell, or let him Bosman?
By Mahe
sentinelcelts@gmail.com
Tricky one. I think he looks disinterested when warming up etc. I’d let him go.
Not a fan of him, very pedestrian and Barry Ferguson like, with more passes to the sides and back than forward. However he does have a pot at goal from outside the box rather than trying to walk the ball into the net as others do !
A conundrum , keep him for SPL games to gives others a rest, at 23 would that be the limit of his aspirations anyway ???
Morning all,
Yes, it’s a tricky one, but I would keep Turnbull.
He has looked disinterested recently but again, as Mahe pointed out, 2 goals in last 2 games.
Did he not score a hat trick for Celtic when he was on top of his game ??
So there’s a player in there, with a goal threat ??
Definitely keep him ( Assuming he wants to be here ) and utilise when needed.
HH 🍀🍀
Morning all.
Mahe…I’m sure Turnbull cost IRO £3milion after an agreed £3.5 or £4m deal fell through because of his knee injury. Happy to stand corrected though!
In my opinion we need good, young Scottish players. It’s folly to think the markets are an unending supply of nuggets, it just cannot work like that. As soon as the evidence starts to build that quality at a budget price is a available the market is pillaged by all and sundry. We’re probably at our zenith in the Japanese market now which has forced us to Korea for Oh!
Turnbull is a good player, at the moment he’s at the higher end of good in terms of ability. He could play in any team in Scotland and be ‘the Man’ in the middle controlling the game. It’s different at Celtic tho’ where every player has to work constantly and move constantly, he’s not really got it in his locker to be fair – particularly when asked to do the defensive duties.
But…his statistics, last season especially, were excellent. His assists and goals per game ratio were a feature of our play, to date he’s got 23 goals and 21 assists in 102 games for us. Numbers not to be sniffed at.
I’d keep him, we can’t let those numbers go too easily. We need Scottish accents in the dressing room. We need examples of local boys to attract local boys. We need to develop Scottish talent as a priority if we want the Academy to have any worth or value.
The last two games, although not the best standard of opposition, should be a platform for him to push forward. Turnbull has an opportunity, it’s up to him now!
No room for sentiment, as Ange clearly demonstrates.
Scottish or otherwise the only question should be are you good enough?
If the destination Ange is taking us is competing favourably in Europe I can see DT being a casualty, and we look for better in the no 10 role.
Having said that his main competition Matt also needs to up his game.
In DT’s favour he knows where the goal is, Matt seems to have the net as a blind spot.
Merge the two we’d have a very fine player!!
One we’d be lucky to keep hold of though.
Assuming Tomoki makes the defensive spot his own we have options with Calmac, Reo, Aaron for the remaining two positions.
There is need for cover and space for another two but I wonder if DT and Matt may be the surplus ones this summer?
Brutal but that’s the nature of the beast. Don’t get too attached to any of the players!
Mahe
(Is DT going to bring us through the Champions League group stages?
No. Not this DT.
He didn’t when given the opportunity.)
Care to explain which did excel on the European stage.
CCV and Jenz were poor against mobile opponents .
Calmac cost us by losing ball in midfield directly leading to a goal against.
JJ wandered like a lost child.
Greg Taylor often caught wrong side.
Only Hatate looked ready and composed at that level.
Kyogo if he had received service may have been good.
Jota has been inconsistent all season .
Maeda was himself so needed better first touch.
Yet you single out Turnbull whose stats are better than most for criticism despite playing few minutes.
Ange and most supporters blinkers to midfields issue is what’s holding us back in Europe.
Good morning,friends.
Oh Yes it is!!
https://twitter.com/CelticFC/status/1618170729098346496?t=o8V1P5Dd6zr6ztH540W1-Q&s=19
Re European ambition.
DT is clearly deemed 4/5th maybe 6th choice now Tomoki is here, for a reason.
Perhaps the latter is the key to a better functioning midfield. We will see.
The central defensive mobility issue you mention may be resolved with Yuki. We will see.
Strength at right back may be improved with AJ. We will see.
Left back looks likely to remain a concern.
A goal keeper who won’t give us palpitations lingering with the ball at his feet will be an upgrade too. ( Much as I love Joe , brutal assessments need to be made).
Recruitment for improvement has already begun.
And will be fine tuned over the Summer.
Then We Will See.
Agree, with fan.
Turnbull is still young enough for improvement. Something he gives us from midfield is goals , which the other midfielders don’t.
If you were to go through our squad and ask the question, are they good enough to get us through in knockout stage of CL.
There would be quite a few needing replaced .
Mahe,
First class analysis of where David Turnbull finds himself in the current pecking order. His future at Celtic, or anywhere else for that matter, will depend on his own ambition, desire, and intelligence.
From our midfield group, it appears that only Callum is a guaranteed first pick, for the games that matter anyway. But Callum aint no world class performer. Neat, tidy, and consistent, but not an elite player. The midfielders, like the whole squad, have stars that rise and fall periodically. Mooy’s is currently on the rise, MOR’s falling somewhat. Happens to them all, apart from CC-V.
Mahe hits the nail on the head with his comment about cracking Europe being Ange’s desired destination. If it’s doesn’t happen in season three then when will it happen ?
J B
Bit retro but ready made tune for OH.
Time to dust down that Pilot classic😀
🎼It’s magic you know
Never believe it’s not so
It’s magic you know
Never believe it’s not so🎼
With McGregor, Hatate, Mooy and O’Riley and now Iwata all likely ahead of him in terms of frequency of games it would not surprise me if David Turnbull started to consider what’s best for him. For me he hasn’t quite pushed on the way I hoped he would. And I think he’s too slow for our style of play.
So whilst I wouldn’t be pushing him out the door I’d not be too concerned if he moved on.
Astoundingly poor ‘analysis’ of David Turnbull.
Is it his turn this week?
Better off at the Klan !
Dearie me.
Fan is correct.
SN
What’s poor about it?
All about opinions.
🎼 Oh Oh Oh he’s magic you know it’s gonna be 2 in a row…. 🎼
5 year deal
SN
And anyway the Huns couldn’t afford him😂
SteveNaive
Astoundingly poor ‘analysis’ of David Turnbull
Is it his turn this week.
Disagree, one of the hosts has opened a discussion on a particular subject. Its a blog and as such open to debate on the strengths or weaknesses of DT. If we don’t debate issues like this then the blog would be pointless.
Mahe
Interesting take on David Turnbull. When given the opportunity, in terms of goals and assists, relative to other attacking/creative midfielders, he’s up there for consistency.
Looking at the last few seasons, his stats are pretty good. In 73 games over 3 seasons, he’s produced 17 goals and 15 assists. That measures up at 44% in respect of contribution. Whilst I appreciate it’s hardly a foolproof way of measuring performance, it’s nevertheless a measurement of sorts.
Highest ranking in that respect is Maeda. 21 goals or assists in 36 games. 58%
O’Reilly 15 from 38 and Hatate 14 from 37 very similar statistically at around the 38%.
James Forrest over 3 seasons is at 29%, but surprisingly if you take this current season in isolation he’s at 46% which as I say I found surprising.
Mooy 35% in this, his first season.
Calum sits on a lowly 19% ( 13% for this season) but of course he’s a different type of midfielder to the others.
Point is. When given his opportunity, Turnbull IS delivering.
Mahe — Interesting article.
DT at the moment does look like a fish out of water for us.
Huge call as he is a very talented player with a big future in the game.
He should be a starter for the NT as he has the class / sophistication / vision that we otherwise lack.
Regarding the squad — RH is in front of him because he is a more dynamic / mobile / energetic attacking MF’er / playmaker.
DT in his company looks slower / one paced but is more steady and reliable with better ball retention when dealing with the basics.
He could play alongside RH — further forward / good shot on him but he lacks the movement and the level of defensive elements that we need in that position. He seems to play the game at a slow pace where his football intelligence and vision can make up for his lack of acceleration / energy. Not sure if his numbers / physicals back this up but that would appear to be his style from 60M away.
So unless we develop a new style with a MF four or he suddenly starts to up his defensive game then he is looking like RH’s spare — not a great place to be at his age with his talent.
Hopefully AP has his thinking cap on …
RH is getting better defensively / tackling / challenging for the ball.
AM is 32 and won’t last forever.
MO’R is in a state of flux / needs support to deal with the pressures / expectations of playing top flight football.
CMcG is struggling to play the defensive side of his game and I think change could be on the way in the shape of TI.
MF options — (1) of TI / RH / AM vs (2) of TI / RH / DT vs (3) of TI / RH / MO’R
My thoughts on DT = hold / support / develop.
Two year extension and see what happens.
Please note that the above is a not a go at CMcG — I rate him as an AM who needs to shoot more because he is very good at it.
Just a case that he is very limited defensively and recent performances have been poor in this regard.
The issue is does he improve our European ambitions?
As 5/6th choice he doesn’t appear to.
Ruthlessness says Get better in.
In 6 CL games he didn’t start once.
Even when Calmac was missing through injury he was always on the bench behind Reo( whom he replaced three times) Matt, Aaron eventually and even Haksa.
Suggestion there is he is a filler, and we could do better.
Re David Turnbull… He’s a bit of an enigma to me. Looks incredibly slow yet not caught up with often, extremely one-footed, especially for a professional footballer, but he’s not the only one in the team ( insert your own choice from about 4 ).
As Twisty has demonstrated, he has excellent statistics but at the moment seems ‘joyless’ in comparison with fellow players. Perhaps not the best but for me still a keeper. Not a goalkeeper I hasten to add!
The Cave seems to be in meltdown at the moment — usual insultfest over PL / PL’s spawn / DMcK or thereabouts.
And the Prefect deletes all the chat about bonuses / strange £60K line items / gagging clauses / revisionism / board propaganda.
The natives would appear to be getting restless.
Incoming …
I think Turnbull could be a better player than O’Riley.turnbull can finish.fact 🍀
O Riley been pish all season.some of his passing and finishing are shocking tbf🍀
A new tune at Celtic Park
Hurry up Harry, we’re going down the pub ???
Cryptic I know, but anyone get it ???
Leggy
Harry Kewell posted missing and out with BRRB?
Thanks to the continually good Celtic By Numbers http://celticbynumberscom.ipage.com/chance-involvement/
CFC,
Brilliant answer but not the one I was looking for 😜😜
Just y luck!
Post about Turnbull an it disappears
Encapsulating long post I’d keep him!
Apparently cup game v St Mirren will be 17.30 kick off. So the rumour goes
Steve, the info on chances and shots is surprising! It suggests that losing both GG and DT would leave a hole in team performance, yet I do not get that sense when both are on the pitch. Que?
In answering the original question on DT, I think there are two perspectives here, as there is for every player. There is DT’s view and Ange’s view.
From DT’s perspective, I think he should go, provided he is happy to go to England, or at least, out of Scotland. Remember, he changed his mind about Norwich. No Scottish team could afford him, other than the non option.
David is not an Ange player. Ange players need to move the ball onwards, quickly, preferably forward, when in possession. When not in possession, Ange players must harry and/or block the opposition. DT is not strong in these departments, but he is a very good player. So, unless he is able to fundamentally change his game, he will be a bit part player in Ange’s team. At 23, that is the last thing he needs, so he should go, sooner rather than later.
From Ange’s perspective, he is not a believer in DT’s strengths, but he does acknowledge that he is a quality player. He can score from range, or, at least, force the opposition to move out to block him. He is capable of shovelling the ball over defenders which few if any of the team can do. Chance creation has been a bit of a headache for Celtic, although that has not been an issue in the last two games. So, from Ange’s perspective, DT is a Plan B option when Plan A is not working. However, Ange is very determined that Plan A will work. So, if DT wants to go, Ange will respect that.
Fan, agreed that DT is not the reason for failure in Europe. He should not be saddled with that. Plan A is the reason for failure. Either, it cannot succeed or it was not implemented properly. Which? I do not know.
Finally, finally, finally, there has been some discussion of another side of Ange, namely his ruthlessness. I think player churn is a part of Plan A, an essential part. I am not convinced that the charge of the clans is a sustainable strategy beyond one or two seasons. Players burn out, or reject boot camp tactics after a time. Similarly, players become disillusioned if all of their efforts yield no positive results, e.g. as in Europe. I am not sure that those issues can be solved but player churn is one way of mitigating them. So outcomes of Ange’s Plan A include players leave after short terms, and/or Ange leaves and starts again.
Don’t misunderstand me, I am enjoying Celtic at the moment, but I wonder where we are headed long term.
Rebus
Rebus67
Your description of DT , could also be used for MO’R. Although DT scores goals and O’Riley doesn’t.
As for Anges plan B. I hope the signing of Iwata means a different approach and set up CL
If not , it will be the same outcome as this season.
I forgot! Happy Burns Day, everyone.
It is worthwhile thinking about some of his utterings…
Paraphrasing, who has the gift to see us……
Rebus
On this day of days, it is only fitting that we should also honour Lady Carolina Nairne, an anonymous contemporary of Burns.
Amongst others she wrote, “Will ye no come back again” ; “The Hundred pipers” ; “Charlie is my darling”.
Who knew? I thought it was Burns.
Google Lady Carolina for more.
Rebus who knows a Javobite when he sees them
David Turnbull………..I agree with fan.
REBUS i wonder as well,it’s his team his players and they all have to fit into his system, great watch in Scotland………..but.
Rebus67
Very insightful post at 1:37.
There has been some discussion that the proof of the pudding for Ange’s ‘ruthlessness’ will be improved results in Europe next season. I have the feeling we are just tinkering around the edges and that improvements, marginal or not, may be of little consequence. We lost 8-1 to Madrid over 2 games. Would an aggregate of 5-0 be considered an improvement?
Bielsa is reported ( I know😊 ) as taking one look at Everton and saying “Too slow – no team speed”. We suffer from that in spades in European terms with the notable exceptions of Kyogo and Maeda, and particularly so in midfield.
I tune in to the Bundesliga regularly and the sheer speed of most games makes me sigh. Lightning bolt sprinters like Frimpong are made to look run of the mill. I remember many moons ago watching an interview with Southampton’s Mick Channon after a losing effort with Englandshire. He made this observation, “If you don’t have speed at the international level, you have nothing.” Now, obviously there are exceptions to this, but that general rule holds true. When I was a coach, facing a choice between two players of equal talent, I always went for the faster player. Speed covers a multitude of sins, particularly recovery speed and instant reactions in both boxes.
With last year in the Group stage under his belt, it is going to be fascinating to see how Ange approaches the next one. Will he adapt his tactics and be more pragmatic, or will he be consistent? As a wise man of this parish is wont to say, “We’ll see.”
MAHE
A lead article that stimulated a football debate for a change.
Lets have more of that .
iniquitousIV
Our speed of thought or rather lack of is a major issue.
Too many of our players wait until they receive ball then take a few touches before deciding on pass.
An awareness of teammates before receiving ball would be a big improvement and allow us to move ball quicker.
We have quick players like Maeda,Kyogo and Jota who often have to put the brakes on waiting for a pass.
David, to me, doesn’t look as if he is committed, his goal celebrations are rather muted and I think, he thinks his future lies elsewhere, por cierto
Lawwell involved in latest Celtic signing after all. Nicholson too!!
Ange said [Celtic TV]: “Really pleased; (Hyeongyu Oh) is someone Mark Lawwell and myself sort of identified really early on in the piece, and we thought he would be the first one through the door.
“But it’s fair to say it’s taken a while to get negotiations done and to get him here. And, really credit to the player himself and Michael Nicholson for their perseverance because there were times when I thought it wasn’t going to happen or lost a bit of heart.
“But they both persevered to get it done. So it’s great to ha ve him here, I’m sure he’ll add to our football club; really excited by the potential he has, but also the impact he can make straight away.
Rebus67
“Fan, agreed that DT is not the reason for failure in Europe. He should not be saddled with that. Plan A is the reason for failure. Either, it cannot succeed or it was not implemented properly. Which? I do not know.”
The time to judge is next season. New, hopefully better players bedded in – Tomoki, Yuki, Oh with further recruitment improvements in the Summer window.
Improvement in Europe is incremental, so a 5/0 two game loss to RM next time but third place finish is progress, surely?
Auldheid
That’ll have the anti nepotism brigade scratching their heids looking for the negative angle!
I wouldn’t put to much on DT’s lack of celebrations, French Eddie almost looked as he was greeting when he scored !
Need to go to Kirkwall next month for work,……i know…..going from Glasgow, embdae know a good cost effective route? Client is paying travel BTW…..ta
Ok,
Answer is,
Anyone remember Harry O from the 70’s
???
Ohhhh !!!!!!!
I’d be better going back to my Mensa meeting 😜
b b 1
Visited Orkney last May.
Travelled by car/ ferry via Thurso and return overnight to Aberdeen.
We needed the car to travel the island.
Flying direct is an option.
Leggy
Good try, this is worse –
if he takes the No 7 shirt will he be OH, oh, 7?
CFC,
I find this time an incredibly interesting one to be following Celtic, which is why I might weather the PL storm.
I ask myself why. Perhaps, it is because Ange has a definite system and success is not based entirely on the team finding a way to win. The latter is a blueprint for domestic success but not in Europe. Leaving it to the players is doomed to failure in Europe because opponents will have better players. So, the only way that I can see for Celtic to improve in Europe is through the synergy of the team. In others words through a system of play. Ange has supplied that but my questions are: a) can it improve results, and b) given the physical demands, can it be sustained.
Next season, we shall have a better feel for a) but the answer to b) will require at least three seasons to judge. Will Ange be around long enough to answer the sustainability question? His prior record suggests not.
However, it will be a fun ride. I truly hope that the Board is looking at succession planning for Ange and maintaining his innovative recruitment.
On Europe, your question seems to be nuanced on the difference between theory and practicality or reality.
IMHO, losing 5-0 to RM would represent a theoretical improvement but unless it is followed by finishing at least third, it is not a real improvement.
This blog is a great place to be at present.
Rebus
Rebus67
I think the vast majority of us are enjoying the ride.
The PL storm may well be in a teacup? Time again will tell.
I would ask you what is considered success in Europe?
If our domestic success propels us towards the CL surely that is where we deserve to be.
Competing there is another issue.
Play against the very best, make progress and hopefully in ‘24/25 under the new format we play 8 not 6 games and continue to improve.
Maybe eventually become a regular last 16 team.
That would be spectacular progress.
Perhaps not satisfying those that have unrealistic expectations of winning the top prize- there can only be One.
But put us at the forefront of what will inexorably come next in Europe. It’s a constantly changing
financial landscape.
Maybe that is something to aspire to?