Share yes, shares no
Yesterday saw my partner in crime focus on today’s massive game and I don’t see the point in covering old ground except to state this home match is the players big chance to stake a claim for a starting berth in next weekend’s Cup Final, and as such I expect an exciting attacking approach by the Bhoys and therefore a good victory.
I would rather focus on the under-discussed (in my humble opinion) news of supporters failing to take a major shareholding in their club, and maybe ask for some local opinion.
It happened to be Dave King and The Rangers as you will know, but I’m wondering if this failure has implications for all.
I personally find it incredible such a large stake became available to supporters, any club’s supporters, in such a manner i.e. pay later, so why the low take-up?
The vessel? Quite possibly. If The Trust announced a similar deal I know there would be misgivings.
Low finance at ground level?
I defer to the natives being abroad. Its easy for me to imagine big numbers jumping at the opportunity should a similar offer become available for our club of choice but when you look at our history the last time the Tims put their hands into their collective pockets we had the perfect figurehead, they are few and far between these days, and at one stage we thought Dermot ideal just to show nationality and personal riches shouldnt become the benchmark.
Imagine today’s figurehead, who would need an online presence to garner the support needed to sit on the board of all their behalves.
Tempered with a Non Disclosure Agreement of course, just standard protocol and strictly business, nothing personal.
The questions and queries would become incessant to the point of irritating I’m sure.
Not only that but given the club are successful on the pitch and in attendance figures, the only viable area to become involved would be on the moral aspects, on which one can easily be outvoted with ‘a mere’ 15 percent holding.
Which ties into the next potential reason, Necessity.
A visible reason to grasp the opportunity doesn’t jump out, not to mention in this particular instance folk have been burned before. FSR should ensure that clubs survival from here on.
Asking the Tims for 20 million just to get overturned when push comes to shove would be viewed as unnecessary perhaps even vanity. The introduction of an Independent Regulator will automatically bring a dimension of fan input on the biggest levels, strip change and stadium location for instance, so necessity just isn’t there if your clubs not in danger of going insolvent.
Having a supporter representative on the board sounds great but what’s the practical benefit, if as pointed out you won’t get detailed information due to an NDA?
Make sure the books are fine? Of course they are. UEFA now makes sure of that, or the Independent Regulator will.
Get shown the letter being sent to the SFA regarding referees and/or VAR?
Great, the board can honestly state we wrote to them, and the supporters rep shall be asked daily via every form of social media for an update and become the focal point of frustration when silence from Hampden is forthcoming.
Have Hearts genuinely benefitted from having a supporter shareholding? I venture not.
I’m more and more open to the notion that while the supports feelings on any given subject are well worth taking into account at a boardroom level, having a supporter representative at the top table might not be the promised land after all.
Napsters follow the link
Yes,guilty of previewing today’s match yesterday-which meant that you couldn’t!
It was only when I decided to do that,that I realised how unfair this was on MAHE. We decided from the start to take regular turns at articles and that we didn’t need to consult each other about them. It’s worked so far,we think,but come Friday I have a choice of whether to cover the upcoming match or not.
Which means MAHE doesn’t,and that isn’t fair.
So I mailed him the other night and suggested that we take turn about unless one of us has another article in mind,which should be the case from now on. Just means I have to think for a change every second Thursday…
Wee song for this fella.
It was a scam.
There wasn’t a low take up, but every time their shareholding increased, their board issued new shares like confetti, therefore diluting their shareholding, so almost outing them back to square one, despite a lot of investment, eventually even the thickest of fans realised they were being conned and also they were buying the shares at 20p. 😂😂
When they would be lucky if they were worth a quarter of that.
If you fly with the crows you get shot with the crows.
Big match today and hopefully a comfortable win.
4-1 to the Bhoys
Looking forward to seeing Sentinel Celts very own Hinge and Bracket ( alias BRRB and BelmontBrian) at the Shipbank Shipwreck’s next do at the beginning of March 😜😜😜
As far as I understand it the vehicle is/was Club 1872.
Effectively run by King’s placeman Chris Graham.
Those gullibillies stupid enough to pony up £18.72 per month thought they were garnering influence but it was nothing more than an opportunity for King to wash through his shareholding. Until now.
As you say the confetti has increased so much there is something like 430,000,000 shares in existence, another four million added last month.
Surely another Huns World Record.
Good morning friends and Matchday!
I’d settle for any kind of victory today, this game is a potential banana skin if ever there was one.
Hopefully the Celts are 2 or 3 goals up by half time, settle any nerves.
Morning all! You could have gone so much further with this article Mahe but I s’pose if you were left in the lurch by your bedmate you had to think fast to come up with something!!
Club 1872 was an investment opportunity offered to all ex- Rangers supporters and new TRFC supporters with a vew to increasing Fan ownership. It was a superb idea, magnificently co-ordinated by King who managed to get 000s of bears on side, paying £18.72 per month (why not £20.12, an extra £1.40 per mug, sorry investor, per month!) What the punters didn’t know was that King was selling worthless shares at a premium. These guys are ordinary fans, ripped off by the guys they thought they should trust. It’s a disgusting state of affairs and another example of that mob across the river doing as they please when they please with no regulation or accountability. Club 1872 is required to buy their shares from RIFC, they cannot buy on the open market so are hamstrung by whatever price the club want to charge.
As JNP says, it’s a scam. It’s a disgusting scam playing on the feelings and emotions of its investors who have watched the 1872 Board buy a pile of overpriced, worthless shares on their behalf, with the promise of one day being a Fan-led club only to see the value of the shares decrease while their %age also decreases! Its the perfect investment scenario for TRFC and a play on the old Timeshare investment of the 80s and 90s…pay loads for an essentially worthless product!
430m shares at 25p values them close to our own.
A lovely picture of Walsh in a Sevco training jacket,doing the rounds,at which point do Celtic speak up?
7 hours we’ve made it… Mon the hoops 🍀 https://t.co/ivM04JNuQW
The optics may suggest that 😀
A not too forensic examination may contradict that view.
The SFSA representing Scottish Football Supporters across the country are the best bet for introducing the Tracey Crouch recommendations to Scottish Football.
Their latest blog by their Chairman Andy Smith (NOT The Scotsman Andy Smith ) gives a flavour of their coverage
and from stage left Paul Goodwin SFSA CEO has raised the idea of community ownership for Celtic in an interview with the Glasgow Herald
This bit is specifically about Celtic and relevant to Mahe’s blog but Paul’s trials and tribulations are worth reading about.
“But what is the Dermot Desmond legacy going to be? When he steps down he has either got to pass his shares on or sell his shares. Whoever comes in might not have the same vision, passion, hunger and affinity that he does.
“Could Celtic become the next fan owned club in Scotland? If you crunch the numbers, absolutely. Potentially, Celtic could bring in £7.8m in additional revenue from their fans each year. Why wouldn’t they want that? Dermot Desmond isn’t putting £7.8m of his own money in each year.
“Fan ownership could give them a competitive edge. It is not that different from the way that Eintracht Frankfurt or Borussia Dortmund operate. They work with a membership scheme. It is a huge opportunity for them.”
Pie in the sky? A pipe dream? A crazy idea that will never get off the ground? Paul Goodwin has heard it all before in the past 13 years. And just look at how dramatically the landscape of Scottish football has changed.”
PS Mahe. The idea being considered is not a supporter on the Celtic Board but a Shadow Board elected by supporters.
Some very big issues come into play.
Who is the club — who “owns” it vs who controls it?
I wonder how much money has been spent to own the shares?
Locally it was — from a grey memory of 28+ years ago — £640 for one of the packages on offer.
Not sure what our market cap is at the moment but that does not represent the money that has changed hands to won the shares.
However we do know that the support has put in £45mill in the last 6 months through stadium operations and merchandising.
The shareholders have given diidly squat over the same time period.
Capitalism in the raw.
Just off the phone to one of them. Who bloody slept in! All packed,bus and ticket paid for,ticket in pocket.
I told them to go to Vincenzo’s (Vinnie’s) top of W Nile Street tomorrow morning. Opens early,and does a great line in rolls n skwerr. Or bacon,if skwerr is too much for them.
Ooops,Alfie’s (Alfredo’s). Always getting that wrong.
But then,I know where it is,wrong name or not!
That must be so annoying for him!!!
Yes, Alfredo’s cracking pub.
Very diplomatically explained!
AH @ 12.05
Back in the day — 2005 @ The Cave that was then CQN — there was a lot of chat regarding social ownership of the club.
I was asked for a scheme and I put one forward based on Yorkshire Cricket Club / a water company might be Welshwater / a membership scheme involving season tickets and CTV subs plus a bare membership level.
Add in shares held in trust and there was a way forward.
Nothing came of it as you would expect.
There are solutions out there.
DD aka the Irish Raj is just an arbitrage bloke heading for retirement.
Just hanging around waiting for a big pay day.
Might be ESL / might be EPL / might be the Fridge Magnet — so he waits.
Football means nothing to him — golf or bust.
CFC Financials …
Market cap is £105mill.
We have £59mill cash in the bank.
We will soon be a savings account that plays football on the side.
Shares = Currently in half Nelson territory — 111p.
33% drop since 2019 high when they were 162p plus.
Wouldn’t need a ME oil sovereign wealth fund to buy is.
Jeddah city council could buy us with their biscuit budget.
At these numbers — I am surprised that the Fridge Magnet hasn’t made a move.
What we could be is we had any sort of talent / desire / ambition in the boardroom?
And all after 17 years with a low energy / second rate / failed property bean counter in charge.
Really shows that you can’t keep a good club down no matter how hard you try.
KDS — Accounts / boardroom thread — the anecdotes and stories would make you weep.
Shares currently 113 against fairly recent high of 163. Given DD’s holding of 33m shares,that would be about £37m. If he wanted a typical buyout premium,say at 150,then it is £50m.
A “levy” of £100 per ST would pay him in ten years. Can’t see anyone inc DD going for that. A two-year plan at £25 a month,which takes us close to the initial £640,would need about 85,000 people to sign up.
That is actually feasible,don’t get me wrong. But it isn’t the kind of register anyone can keep,not unless you are a highly paid professional firm.
Would love to see it happen though.
I didn’t say 113 etc just to contradict you,we obviously looked at different information sources. Same ideas though.
BMCUW @ 1.15 / playing nice …
No issues apart from a small chuckle.
Sources differ plus grey moments = 2p delta.
Bing search came up with 111.50p
Main issue for me was the low numbers involved — price and market cap.
We are now a saving accounts with a football team on the side.
Just as BT is a pension fund with a legacy telecoms bit.
Strange / very strange.
Still think the Fridge Magnet is worth a watching.
He certainly knows how to build a business plus he would appear to have a lot of operational talent onboard.
The Chairman of PSG is also the Chairman of the European Clubs Association.
Highly likely then that Man Utd will be Qatari owned soon.
What is required is government legislation that football clubs can only be owned by supporters in their own country.
The same should naturally be the case of Power companies, Water Companies etc.
Highly unlikely that this kind of appropriate legislation will ever happen.
Unfortunately football clubs are now just commodities and football fans simply customers.
Lord Haughey( as opposed to Haw Haw) keeping a watchful eye from Lesser Hampden?
The sort of philanthropic fella that could lead social ownership of the club.
Suspect DD isn’t the type to give his toys away.
The sort to stick them in the cupboard and forget about them.
BMCUW @ planting a seed.
DD’s exit strategy — I think he is looking for 50% on the 50% before he starts taking the calls.
Guesswork points to £2.50 poss even £3 to get the Irish Raj into exit mode.
I think that the Fridge Magnet knows the numbers and finds them a bit high.
He is willing to wait / play for time to see how things develop.
Regarding the CBC historical cases of abuse — it would be interesting to see who has the biggest / most complete file on the whole sorry saga …
The local lawyer community?
The club and their insurance agents?
A.N. Other(s) with due diligence on their mind?
Our financial numbers must be attracting the attention of real business brains around the world who leave no trail / wake..
We are close to becoming a parody of a well run business — all it took was an Aussie with a growth agenda.
Final pebble into the pond before the game …
Gretna done right.
Lower ranked club managed properly into the SPL.
Speeders aka QP seem to be giving it a right go.
Couple of years in the SPL getting results / bringing new players through.
Would a home crowd of 10K / T/O heading beyond £5mill and reaching out to 10 be possible / probable?
To me all the stepping stones are in place even the bricks and mortar.– is Shawfield still available / would Cathkin Park be credible?
Hart, Taylor, Starfelt, Carter-Vickers, Johnston, McGregor, O’Riley, Hatate, Jota, Oh, Maeda.
Villa smash shot off bar. How jammy are Arsenal?
Villa smash shot off bar. How jammy are Arsenal?
Was a good save and they missed a sitter just before that. Another one of these chances created as a result of keeper passing to defender inside the area.
Shawfield is almost no more, currently being knocked down, for housing.
Arteta’s Ibrox teachings pouring out of him.
Pure scumbag 🤬
Apparently Mooy is not in the squad.
That goal was lucky
If it stands
Unbelievable. Minutes after Villa hit the bar, Arsenal do the same, but it bounces off back of keeper’s head into the net. How lucky can they be?
Is EXILEDTIM around? Seem to have misplaced my sausages.
Mooy has the day off to get his hair cut 😀
Villa show stupidity of putting keeper up for a corner.
KT looking disconsolate coming off after getting a full minute from Arteta.
Dallas wheeled out on Shortbread, to defend the cheating
Emdae with a spare sausage? Previous sources in the US not coming up.
Thank you mate. I did eventually get a sausage, but appreciate the link. ( See what I did there?🤣 )
In the Irvine CSC as usual😀