Europe-To Be Or Not To Be

Morning,all.

Recently,some discussions have taken place on the site around where our ambitions should lie in the next few seasons. Should we recognise the reality of being a big fish in a small pond by concentrating our efforts solely on the domestic front,or should we be trying to reassert ourselves as a force in Europe?

There is merit in both sides of this argument. Especially at this time of year,given that only yesterday we celebrated the 56th Anniversary of THAT glorious day in Lisbon,the one which put us at the fore of the European game. Indeed,but for some shocking behaviour from our Argentinian opponents,we would have been world champions. We stayed near the top in Europe for the duration of our first 9-in-a-row,as finalists in 1970,semi-finalists in 72 and 74,and quarter-finalists in 71 and 69. Apart from a few false dawns,such as Real Madrid in 80,Seville in 2003 and of course,the Rapid Vienna debacle,we haven’t been close since. And life in the upper echelons is now even harder than ever,since the introduction of the Champions League.

This has largely turned into a Big Club Benefit,where certain clubs use the bloated income from the competition to stretch even further ahead of The Average Joe. Where success brings huge rewards which are then spent on buying even better players,which leads to more success and thus more income.

Of course,that isn’t enough for some clubs,the ones who think that The Beautiful Game is all about them. It isn’t-or it shouldn’t be. Time was that we could all dream. And Celtic fans can dream more than most-after all,we have a very rich and proud history. Yet we risk being left behind by the new kids in town as well as by the long-established clubs at the top of the pile. For it is almost impossible for an “ordinary” club from outwith the current elite to make a mark in Europe-unless they have a very rich sugar daddy. Like an oil state or a Russian oligarch.

Yet Napoli nearly achieved it this season,and for a while it looked like they had a very good chance indeed. On their day,they have been playing some of the best and most exciting football seen from Italy and elsewhere for quite some time. Yet,while they won their league in a canter,their form tailed off for a bit around March/April. Just the wrong time for that to happen,as the later stages of their European campaigned loomed large. Ironically,it was another Italian side who knocked them out. AC Milan,who are themselves struggling to make the top four domestically. If it can happen to the current Napoli side,it can happen to anyone. A dip in form at just the wrong time can be catastrophically damaging to your plans.

And Napoli are able to spend more than Celtic! So is it possible to break that glass ceiling? Well,sort of-I think. My wee hun mate and I were discussing similar the other day,how do you stop Man City. He goes ballistic any time I use Celtic as a comparison-ever!-in a discussion,so naturally I do it out of devilment. Told him that Pep had a 100% record going into their first CL Group match in 2016. 

First team to stop that? Celtic,of course. 3-3. Proved it was no fluke by drawing 1-1 in Manchester too. And did the dirty on his previously perfection Barcelona in 2012,rather memorably. 

But,how to stop THIS Man City side? Difficult,particularly in a league campaign. I mean,Southampton knocked them out of the LC-they are bottom of the table! It can be done,but doing it over a season?

Man City have a reputation for spending big. And they do. But they seem too to spend judiciously. £50m for Stones? Hmmm,bit on the high side. But would you rather have him or an £80m Maguire? A £50m Haaland or an £85m Nunez? I could go on. 

They spend big-but not as big as their competitors. And they spend wisely. They also cut their losses quickly when required. No sentiment there at all. 

In short,they are a superbly well-oiled machine on and off the pitch. They are a genuine pleasure to watch for any neutral supporter of The Beautiful Game. They don’t yet possess the balletic grace of his Barcelona side,but it is a different,more dynamic,form that they aspire to. 

But there are so many buts to this. Who really feels any affinity to this side,apart from their fans-many of whom somewhat played down their allegiances for decades? They are a difficult side to love,and that is mainly down to their state ownership. Anyone could love his Barcelona. It was difficult not to enjoy the Galactico-period Real Madrid. Fergie’s United,Wenger’s Arsenal,Cloughie’s Forest. 

Bob Paisley’s Liverpool were a benchmark,AC Milan’s period of dominance a few years later a new high. 

There isn’t that love,awe,respect or admiration for City,simply because of the source of their wealth. Yet they are currently a profitable outfit,those days have gone. Is it time for the game to waken up to the new reality,the new kid on the block? More,is it time that we gave Pep’s side the credit they deserve for playing some of the best football we have ever been blessed to witness? I think it is. But I can’t,not while they face 115 FA charges relating to FFP from 2015,never mind the source of their income.

However,those couple of matches do give us some hope from our glorious past. Even if they proved ultimately to be of little importance in the big scheme of things. They proved that good coaching and sound judgement in the transfer market can bring some success to smaller clubs,just as Napoli proved earlier this season. But the game is littered with tales of clubs not building on their success,or selling their top players,management fall-outs,etc. And Napoli look destined to be another one,with rumours about the imminent departure of manager Spaletti,as well as their top stars Osimhen,Kim and Kvaratshkilia. Remind you of anyone?


To be at the top of the game takes more than short-term planning and investment. It needs to be done over a far longer period than that. It took Fergie eight years at Man Utd to put them on top again in England,but they stayed there for the next two decades. Their decline in the last decade since his departure has been precipitous,a cautionary tale of poor investment in managers and players. As Celtic supporters,we could probably give you chapter and verse on that one! But can it be done,can a big fish in a small pond make a splash in Europe? I think it is possible,but only with strong leadership,inspired work in the transfer market and Academy,and some continuity. Qualify for the CL,take the money. Invest it in the team,qualify again and improve the results. Rinse and repeat. With the new format arriving the season after next,there is an opportunity for us there. But only if we know what we are doing-and stick to it! And you never know,the new FSR spending controls might just limit the ability of the big boys to hoover up all the talent,meaning we might be able to attain more than mere scraps from The Top Table. Look at the financial problems facing Barcelona? Who would have thought they would descend into being a financial basket case in such a short time.

Or Man City. The people in charge of proceedings against the club,an incredible 115 charges to prosecute,may well tell you different. Nothing is guaranteed in football anymore. The club may well believe that there is a vendetta against them. But it is one that I think is long overdue,and I’d like to see other clubs caught in a similar net. The game will be much the better for it.

Meantime,I’ll enjoy a team at the top of their game. And remember our undefeated record against them.

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Above article by BMCUWP

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BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
May 26, 2023 7:00 am

JOBO POTY Competition update.

SENTINEL CELTS PLAYER OF THE YEAR 2022-23*
*RESULTS FROM GAME #51 – HIBS 4 CELTIC 2 (HATATE(pen), OH)

Good evening, friends.
A bit of a game of 2 halves in that I thought we were OK in the first half but rather that improving after the break we went rapidly downhill. But can I use a wee golfing analogy here. I play regularly with a pal, nothing too serious but we always play matchplay just for a wee interest. This week he beat me 5&4 (so he was 5 up with only 4 to play and so had won the match). Did it matter that I won 4 of the next 5 holes? Absolutely not – the bragging rights were all his and any changes in form after the outcome had been decided mattered not a jot. And that’s all I want to say about that!
Domestically this season we have now played 45, winning 39, drawing 3 and losing 3, scoring 135 and conceding 37. Our domestic goal difference is now ‘only’ 98!
Thanks to the 31 folk who continued to support this wee venture by voting after our latest under par performance. A far cry from the peak off 88 earlier in the season. Not everyone managed to come up with 3 names! The total votes cast for each player are as follows, with my own nominations asterisked.

Bain: 9
Ralston: 0
Starfelt*: 24
Kobayashi: 0
Bernabei: 0
McGregor: 10
Hatate*: 15
Iwata: 0
Abada: 0
Oh*: 27
Haksabanovic: 0
Maeda: 1
O’Riley: 0
Turnbull: 0
Forrest: 0
Furahashi: 0

And so, the players receiving POINTS for the game against Hibs are –
Oh – 5 pts
Starfelt – 4 pts
Hatate – 3 pts
McGregor – 2 pts
Bain – 1 point

After 51 games the overall standings are as shown below –
94 points – Hatate
84 points – Carter-Vickers
67 points – Jota
61 points – McGregor
57 points – Furuhashi
51 points – Mooy
45 points – Taylor
43 points – Starfelt
37 points – O’Riley
34 points – Johnston
31 points – Abada
30 points – Maeda
22 points – Jenz
17 points – Haksabanovic
13 points – Giakoumakis, Juranovic and Ralston
12 points – Hart
10 points – Iwata
9 points – Bernabei, Oh and Welsh
8 points – Forrest points – Kobayashi
5 points – Turnbull
1 point – Bain
0 points – Abildgaard, Lawal, McCarthy, Siegrist, Summers and Vata

We now move on to Trophy Day and our final league game of a fantastic campaign. Aberdeen at home on Saturday with a 12:30 kick off.
Hail Hail!

BOBBY MURDOCH'S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
May 26, 2023 7:01 am

JOBO POTY Competition

sencelpoty@gmail.com

JimmynotPaul
May 26, 2023 7:18 am

26th May 2001, Celtic beat Hibs 3:0 in the Scottish Cup final to win the Treble.

McNamara and Larsson(2). @Jackie_Mc4 https://t.co/UYHEwXEPwT

JimmynotPaul
May 26, 2023 7:19 am

26th May 2007, Celtic beat Dunfermline 1:0 in the Scottish Cup final.

Jean-Joël Perrier-Doumbé with the winner. https://t.co/inCajhPjeG

JimmynotPaul
May 26, 2023 7:20 am

10 years ago today, Celtic beat Hibs 3:0 in the Scottish Cup final to complete the double.

Hooper(2) and Ledley with the goals. @HOOP588 @joe16led https://t.co/Lr5XZrh497

SteveNaive
May 26, 2023 8:03 am

“their fans, many of whom somewhat played down their allegiances for decades “ ?
Average 30,000 in the Third division says they didn’t.

CFC
May 26, 2023 8:16 am

BMCUW

Happy to provide some inspiration for your leader!
Can’t speak for B A D obviously 😉

Parking our polarised discussion, we have at times risen to the occasion in the CL, you mention Man City twice and Barcelona. It’s sustaining those results that appears beyond us.
In more equitable times it took SAF a decade to secure Man Utd’s position as a CL contender and 12/13 years to win it.
A far cry from Jock’s 2 years, in times different again.

However, we are where we are and how will we measure success next season?

Improving in Europe has to come into the equation.
We were the third worst performing team in the group stages. Depressingly Zagreb, Maccabi and Copenhagen statistically performed better than us.
Teams such as Salzburg, Shakhtar, Sporting, Leverkusen finished third. We should surely be aiming to emulate them.
To go from bottom three to top 24, and Europa drop down for the last time would represent incremental progress to me. Something to build upon.

We ain’t doing that with the players listed above in Jobo’s competition.

Of the 26 ( 3 now departed) with points on the board, the makeweights are plain to see and could be replaced with little negative impact on squad effectiveness.
More importantly serious upgrades, first 11/16 ready, are required in key positions where current incumbents drop down to become back ups.

CFC
May 26, 2023 8:22 am

A further point re the table. Jenz is still sitting mid table!
Why did we let him go when he appeared more capable than any other player we’ve tried at the back?

Jobo Baldie
May 26, 2023 8:33 am

Good morning friends and a Big Happy Friday to all who post or lurk on this fine site. A weekend to celebrate being Champions Again, what’s not to like?

Awe Naw
May 26, 2023 8:51 am

CFC

Looks like Jens will be in a relegation playoff next weekend.

CFC
May 26, 2023 8:56 am

Awe Naw

From league winner to relegation fodder.
I assume he gets a medal?
Using the Jobo metric! If he’d stayed I reckon he’d still be collecting points and would be around the Mid forties Taylor Starfelt level.
And like them considered decent back up for next season.

The Real McCoy
May 26, 2023 9:12 am

Good leader Bobby.👍🏻
Hopefully we can upgrade and progress in Europe whilst maintaining our DD.
( Domestic Dominance) 😂
Just one gripe de mi .
“It was difficult not to enjoy the Galactico-period Real Madrid.”
Not for me B.
State-backed/funded. Royal Family/ Franco assisted. The Establishment Club. 🤬
Nah .☝️
Enjoy Trophy 🏆 Weekend everyone 🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬
HH💚🍀

St tams
May 26, 2023 9:32 am

Good leader Bobby.
” qualify for CL, take take the money and invest in the team”
That is key for me . The team not the squad.
Only one of our January additions has improved the team, Johnston. The rest are projects and squad players.
We’ve got a lot of work to do in the summer, to be anywhere near a 3rd place team.

Auldheid
May 26, 2023 9:44 am

CFC

From memory I think one of the factors/reasons Celtic in the past did not strengthen during the close season was limiting the player spend budget to potential EL income and not CL.

EL income was lot more certain than CL because of qualifying rounds in the CL and strengthening was dependent on qualifying as opposed to increasing the chances of qualifying. Thus the yo yo policy in CL success terms in PL’s time.

That risk has since been removed the last 2 seasons with direct entry to CL and if Rangers FC Ltd fail to qualify for next season CL, a big spending gap opens up with possibility Celtic will be able to plan at a higher level of spend into the future.

This will enable better quality of players to be signed who will not only ensure domestic title success but produce a team that will be competing in Europe after Chrsitmas and if that is in the EL, a good chance of competing against all opponents.

If RFC Ltd do qualify the spend gap will be less but they will have to take risk of spending at potential CL income level but constrained by FSR to a limit they never faced before.

Having worked with UEFA on FSR it would be an act of future folly of Celtic not to take advantage of the opportunity to surge ahead.

CFC
May 26, 2023 9:49 am

To my mind, to compete successfully in the CL we need Five first team ready to supplement Six definite starters from the current squad:

AJ, CCV, Calmac, Reo, Kyogo, Jota.

Those displaced become back up.
In an ideal world we secure another mid and striker.

That gives us cover for a 20 strong first pick squad. With a few back ups to be called upon when the squad is weakened with injuries and suspensions.
Good enough domestically and hopefully competitive enough in Europe.

CFC
May 26, 2023 9:53 am

Auldheid

Totally agree.
This summer is already beginning to feel like a seminal moment in the club’s ambition.
We will learn a lot over the next three months.

Chairbhoy
May 26, 2023 10:03 am

For me, at this current time, Europe is tihe only show in town

We are by far the biggest and richest Club in Scotland which means domestically…

○ Carrying on shooting fish in a barrell

○ Dumbing down to the level of the others

○ Psyching up the old firm hate factory to pretend there is relevant competition

The phenomenon that was Tina Turner passed away a couple of days ago 😔

When she started practising Buddhism and Chanting back in 1973, she was a broken women who was abused in so many ways and owned nothing, not even her name

Her story is one of incredible courage, strength, fortitude, determination, success…

Did she deserve her success, she “deserved more”.

https://twitter.com/60Minutes/status/1661508125122256899?s=20

For those who think Celtic should carry on in their abusive relationship I say we are better than that.

Hail Hail

Madmitch
May 26, 2023 10:13 am

BMCUW

Napoli / there results this season was built on a T/O building up to around EUR200mill.
They will reap the rewards this season and next but their success was built on that number.

The starter for 10 in any discussion — when did Napoli’s T/O exceed ours?
Where were they in 2004 — above £70mill?
If they can grow — why can’t we?

Closer to home — WGS gave us CL credibility with a CB partnership of “Heid and Hoof”.
The team was built around SN / local youth and a few experienced buys.
Text book case of wringing the cloth dry but the results inspired / nothing was left in the dressing room.

2016/17 was built on coaching / ambition / momentum / some inspired buys.
BR was in charge and the board kept a respectful distance and we all benefitted.

All these efforts generated a financial surplus for the club.
The hard question / what we still have to engage with and understand is what should happen next.
What did we do with the surplus and how can we improve the situation?

We have £59mill in the bank — are we just going to leave it there?
If yes — who / what are we?

A bank account that plays football?

Madmitch
May 26, 2023 10:15 am

BMCUW

You say Napoli.
I give you Brighton.

Best run club in the EPL.
Resources to results / performance on the park.

Their financial profile is not too far removed from our own.
If we are run to their standards we will e the bigger club.

What would Brighton do?

Prestonpans bhoys
May 26, 2023 10:19 am

Until ManC was taken over by a state, I always considered them to be the team of Manchester, their fans were mainly from that area. Now days all over the place.

CFC
May 26, 2023 10:26 am

Napoli are in a different league- literally.
A top three elite one. Where half a dozen of their teams were in the semi finals of Euro cup competition.
The competitiveness of their league makes them what they are. They can grow because of the mammoth inbuilt growth opportunities provided by their league.

Chairbhoy
May 26, 2023 10:27 am

Auldheid @ 9:44 am,

My argument for a long time has been the “risk” greatly diminished in 2012

Before that getting to the UCL group stages could be fraught, remember we got Arsenal in the qualifiers?

In 2012 three things changed

○ Rangers died and we were all but guaranteed a chance of qualifying for the UCL, as Scottish league champions

○ The champions path came in and we were no longer going to face the likes of Arsenal

○ We would be seeded through the champions path

Absolutely the best strategy was to prepare as much as possible for the Champions League, not doing so was negligent in my opinion.

Say on the odd season we failed to qualify for the group stages, would we not be better prepared for a crack at the Europa anyway?

In actuality we sold off much of our talent instead and pursued the failed “moneyball on steroids” strategy.

You are of course correct, now we have already qualified for the UCL group stages and we must prepare as best we can to compete in the UCL with an eye on being ready to win the Premiership next season and getting into the very lucrative UCL 2024/25

Hail Hail

Big Audio Dynamite
May 26, 2023 10:40 am

When Celtic are in Europe, I have the same anticipation as everyone else.

When Celtic aren’t in Europe, I don’t even look, I have Zero interest.

But what I will NEVER do is judge a Celtic team, full of players worth under £5m, up against teams who regularly pay £100m for players …I think it’s not just unfair, it’s unrealistic.

And to my knowledge, I don’t think I’ve ever my a Tim who wants us to just concentrate on the domestic game ..obviously we all want Celtic to do well, in whatever they enter.

Guess what I’m saying is that, my expectations for Europe are as low as they’ve ever been, but the last people I blame for that is the team.

The Europa league may be a more realistic level for us right now, given where we find ourselves financially.

As for the domestic game – I will NEVER get bored of winning.

CFC
May 26, 2023 10:52 am

B A D
“Guess what I’m saying is that, my expectations for Europe are as low as they’ve ever been, but the last people I blame for that is the team.”

And yet a very limited team ( by common assent )
got to a Euro Final.

Not having a dig, no rancour intended, but we should expect a huge amount more from £5m players.
That includes being competitive at the level we find ourselves.
Teams like Sturm Graz, Copenhagen and Maccabi are more competitive.
That should embolden us to do better.

Madmitch
May 26, 2023 11:05 am

AH @ 9.44

There was no yo-yo just very poor business leadership.
The stated strategy was EuL budgeting — supposedly — but what was the strategy in practice?

PL gets his bonus at all costs — struggling with your KPI then sell Young JF in Jan / DD sleeps easy at night with no cash required from him now or at anytime in the fture.

EuL budgeting — so what do we do if we make the CL proper?
Do we use the money to grow the team / the squad?

If we grow the squad is it real growth or a few PL inspired / agent friendly bouts of frog kissing?
The accounts of the last 13 years are riddled with the exceptional events needed to get rid of the evidence.

If we don’t use the money — where is it and what is it doing?
Answer sitting in a bank doing the square root of hee haw.
Not good.

Big Audio Dynamite
May 26, 2023 11:08 am

CFC, yes, in the Europa league …we are in the CL.

And the football world is full of such unexplained anomalies …it proves hee-haw.

Madmitch
May 26, 2023 11:13 am

From Wednesday — regarding our poor defensive performance — do we have better defenders out on loan?

Thinking about LSc with the sheep.
And this season’s Jupiter League sensation — OU at Ostend.

Are they now credible contenders for next season’s first team squad?

Big Audio Dynamite
May 26, 2023 11:16 am

Much do English teams get when relegated from the premiership, 10s of millions?
What do they get for winning the thing, 100s of millions?
Comparing us to teams in that division is now stupid.
We have £60m in the bank? That’d get you a couple of Brighton subs!!

Madmitch
May 26, 2023 11:24 am

b @ 11.16

Down negative man down — you need to look at the big wide football world beyond the SPL.
Brighton are a great club to study — scout widely / coach heavily / players who are comfortable with the style of play / making the most of every opportunity they an find.

The most of every opportunity — that would be the players / the coaching staff / the board.
Can you say the same about us?

Learning how to take free kicks and corners does not cost millions — Luton in the ECh have made it there calling card.
Working throw ins to the max is something we seem to have forgotten about / our penalty takers look like a name from a hat.

Would Brighton accept these slapdash standards — no they wouldn’t so why do we.

Big Audio Dynamite
May 26, 2023 11:29 am

MM,

Sorry, I couldn’t get passed you calling ANYONE “Negative” 😂😂

Madmitch
May 26, 2023 11:41 am

BMCUW

Is the blog playing up?

Madmitch
May 26, 2023 11:41 am

Next season — CL credibility.

Be on the lookout for two experienced players who have been around the CL block.

AR @ L/pool would sort out the LB situation — GT would be the back up / AB should go out in loan closer to home.
Other EPL options — SMcT vs HMag
Plenty out there — some Bosmans.

Next would be the loan market — fished in this before with some success.
Bloated squads in a lot of big clubs so there will be opportunities.
Probably worth bringing in a couple as potential 1st team starters.

Two or three big buys — again with a view of having them start.
Plus some outside raw material for the youths / B Team.

Next season is not about splashing the cash — it is finding the talent and then bringing then in at the lowest / most efficient cost to us. Might even allow us to bring more in and give them a season to grow into the first team.

Next season — other changes required — new captain?

Our current captain should not be guaranteed a place in the team.
The MF is now the weakest area of the team.
He is arguably the weakest of the current starters.

CFC
May 26, 2023 11:43 am

B A D
Anomalies that would give you another Seville experience?

We are not talking about proving anything, we are asking the club to support a programme of ambition that gets us somewhere other than being habitual Euro cannon fodder.
That can only be done with progression in Europe annually. That’s a measurement of success I value over a league cup.

2003 we won nowt but lasts long in the memory of every supporter and adds to the unique legacy of the club.

St tams
May 26, 2023 11:44 am

BAD
If you have a look at what the majority of the Brighton squad actually cost you’ll be surprised.
Good scouting and recruitment. You don’t always have to spend upwards of £10m

Madmitch
May 26, 2023 11:54 am

StT @ 11.44

Don’t spoil a good rant with facts …

Brighton are probably at this moment scouting in Venezuela / Mongolia / Malawi / Motherwell / Indonesia looking for the next big low cost talent stream.

If you work hard — you get your rewards.
PL never got the memo.

Big Audio Dynamite
May 26, 2023 11:57 am

Brighton can afford to pay Adam Lallana (35) nearly £100k A WEEK!!

Not saying anything about Adam, other than the fact I haven’t heard his name for years.

Teams get more money for being relegated out of that league, than we are celebrating having in the bank? They also regularly pay that for very average players.

I used to know a team who tried to overspend to compete in that tournament …what happened to them again? 😕

£70-£80m parachute payment for relegation.

£2m for winning our top division?

That league is virtually drowning in money!

Big Audio Dynamite
May 26, 2023 11:59 am

St Tams, Its what they can offer guys in wages, without fear it’s going to become a problem.

Big Audio Dynamite
May 26, 2023 12:00 pm

MM, not agreeing with you is ranting? 😂😂

McCaff
May 26, 2023 12:03 pm

The discussion about Brighton really needs context… their position isn’t as fortuitous as appearances suggest. Yes, they are a tight ship with good coaching, good players and a tight balance sheet. For the moment. But…Tony Bloom invested £400 million quid to get them to where they are at the moment! That’s sustainable for BHAFC because, and only because, of the rewards of the Premier League. Do you think Tony Bloom would see Celtic as a viable £400 million punt!
Levels boys, levels!!

Madmitch
May 26, 2023 12:04 pm

b @ 12.00

You are in a league of your own.

A league where prospects from Argentina are paid £100K pw the minute they land in the EPL.
If you believe it — it must be true.

Big Audio Dynamite
May 26, 2023 12:12 pm

CFC, I’m all for us doing well, obviously, but this isn’t as simple as just spending and success will naturally follow.

Say we buy 3 £8m players, rip up our wage structure to accommodate them, but the 3 of them, for whatever reasons, all turn out to be failures? We don’t have the safety net these other teams do.

Big Audio Dynamite
May 26, 2023 12:14 pm

Mitch, you’ve lost me ..again.

Big Audio Dynamite
May 26, 2023 12:16 pm

McCaff, £400m? Ach, we’ve got £60m in the bank!! Are you not listening?! 😉😂

Madmitch
May 26, 2023 12:18 pm

McC @ 12.03

TB put in £400mill because he had to over the course of his big EPL adventure.
Local credibility is all for him at the moment / in the past — interesting growth stage coming up.
Can they / will they try and make the step up to be credible CL candidates?
If they make it — will they be able to handle it?

They are the total opposite of us.

EPL credibility = possible CL opportunities.
If they make the CL proper they will be credible off the back of a EPL Top4 squad.

If we are credible in the CL then we will be extremely credible in the SPL.
Extremely credible in the SPL does not mean CL credibility — that is the gap many must cross.

TB and his £400mill journey.
Given who we are / what we are / what we have — we can cut quite a few corners.
TB doesn’t have the bandwidth to see our value / bloke at Brentford does.

It might yet get interesting.
The Nylons are not CL credible — Toytown club / Toytown support / Toytown stadium..
We are if we can get our act together.

Seville was not our MO’N peak.
BM dancing on the pitch at P/Head 5 months later was.
And all because they had managed a draw at what was then one of Europe’s tougher trips.

Chairbhoy
May 26, 2023 12:22 pm

Some great points being made regards Celtic in Europe

In every professional football competition, the length and breadth of Europe, there will be clubs who enter both league and cup competitions who will have very little chance of winning those competitions yet they still compete, why?

It’s in the nature of sport that you try your best, strive to succeed as best you can, most football supporters are faithful through and through despite the fact their teams win little or nothing.

The Europe’s too hard, we shouldn’t prepare for those competitions is a defeatist attitute for the Celtic supporters that have been brain washed by risk averse, expectation management pr techniques and does not reflect the reality of the situation

Celtic FC ARE a big Club.

Madmitch @ 11:05 am,

You make a very good point

My memory was that the risk averse strategy was…

We can’t risk spending on the team to qualify for the UCL

But

“every penny would be reinvested in the club.”

UCL qualifying EVERY year was our aim

That was the official strategy, not bloggers words but straight from Peter Lawwell

I remember this distinctly because my wake up and smell the coffee moment was when Rangers died, we qualified for the UCL twice in a row and we sold over £30million pounds worth of players.

That meant that Peter Lawwell’s claim that there was no “pile of money”, was no longer justified

Yet when Lenny Mk1 left, we promoted his coach and didn’t back him in the transfer market, we actually sold Virgil Van Dyke to boot.

It was very clear despite what was said, that we had no intention of planning for European football and were planning rather on the second coming of Rangers, a very mediocre outfit that was finding the going tough in the second teir of Scottish football.

Hail Hail

CFC
May 26, 2023 12:23 pm

B A D

Spending is no guarantee- two who epitomise that are coming back to us from loan spells.

What has been obvious however is that money well spent – Edouard, CVV, and Jota produces dividends.
And no doubt Mm will be surprised to hear I agree with him re finding diamonds in the rough of the Bosman market, and bloated English club stockpiling system.

So for a £20m plus outlay some quality could be found.

Madmitch
May 26, 2023 12:26 pm

b @ 12.14

Typing slower …

In your world — Brighton pay everyone in their squad £100K pw.

That includes the prospects they scout from Argentina who — according to your worldview — are on £100K pw the minute they hit the EPL no matter their backstory.

In the real world they scout impressively all across the globe and find talent / ability at good valuations.
So they don’t pay huge fees and they don’t pay huge wages.
So this strand of their efforts is in our league.

Plus given our resources — we could pay one or two players £100K pw if it made footballing sense to us.

Would a player with the ability of HL — 20002004 vintage — be worth £100K pw to us now?

.

McCaff
May 26, 2023 12:29 pm

Tony Bloom has lost a packet at BHAFC but even although he is a billionaire (approx £1-1.5b so not a mega billionaire!) he will not sustain that kind of investment, and even if he wanted to FSR would come into play and restrict him from doing so.
As BAD consistently points out it is impossible, maybe even foolish to compare us with an EPL outfit, if only because the figures are incomparable. The argument needs to be about Cluj or a team of that ilk.
Apples and Oranges!

CFC
May 26, 2023 12:33 pm

Cluj?!?

Third in Romanian League?

Surely we should be comparing ourselves to something a bit more serious.