What Really Killed Them?


Morning,all.

Today,as a wee treat for events on Sunday,brings us a guest article from ASWGL. With grateful thanks,of course.

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This began as a discussion between myself and a work colleague, regarding a recent non penalty decision, in which he claimed his club were looking for transparency and honesty in the game. Yes, you could have knocked me down with a feather. It led to a lengthy discussion where “pot kettle black” immediately sprung to mind.

The discussion also ventured off somewhat to this same club nonsense, that he clings onto like some comfort blanket. I began to remind him, that, of which all my fellow Celtic supporters know regarding honesty and transparency, the real story of how his old club went to the wall, because they had no honesty and even less transparency.

I reminded him that everyone knows that all this continuity myth is pure tripe, and is actually impossible. A fiction developed that somehow the “club” and the “company” are separate, engine room subsidiaries and more …which as every man and even his dog knows is certainly not the case.

There is no legal difference or distinction between the club and the company. They are one and the same. There was, and is, no separate club and company.

In reality, no matter what anyone tells you, it is undeniable that Sevco merely purchased assets, (Ibrox Stadium, Murray Park training ground and a car park), nothing else. They did not purchase a single share in Rangers, if they had done, then they would, most likely have been liable to pay off all the debts incurred by that club. No they merely purchased assets.

Had Sevco purchased Rangers plc, there would have been absolutely no need for them to apply to join the SPL. The very fact that they had to apply to join is all the evidence needed to prove that Sevco is not and was not Rangers. 

If I purchased Jimmy Johnstones’ football strip, or his boots, or changed my name by deed poll to “The Jimmy Johnstone” does that give me claim to be the great Jinky himself ? No it certainly does not.

Rangers were liquidated. It is impossible to transfer something from yourself to yourself. So I wasn’t having his nonsense that it was transferred from club to company. No it was certainly was not. 

Sevco, who incidentally did not qualify for SFA membership as Sevco did not have three years worth of audited accounts (which was required for SFA membership).

I suggested we should look at the events and who was ultimately responsible for killing his Rangers. As could be expected his side of the debate blamed or involved several parties, among them, Craig Whyte, HMRC, the SFA.

I suggested we look at some of his other suspects…..

Dick Advocaat. The little dutch manager spent over £35million in 1998 his first season in the bears hot seat, he would spend another £36million in the following two seasons, and a further £11million after that taking his spending spree to over £80 million.

Walter (The Cardigan) Smith. In 1991 Smith as manager, was allowed to spend £50million in buying players that would include household names such as Paul Gascoigne, in his second spell in charge he would spend £26million. Bear in mind no other club in Britain at that time was outspending these Rangers managers, also bear in mind that while these outrageous spending sprees were going on, using EBT’s, and during this spell HMRC were looking for around £50million in unpaid tax from Rangers.

Both of the two mentioned above may have spent millions on players and contributed greatly to who killed Rangers, but who was actually behind sanctioning these lavish spending’s ? while their HMRC debt was steadily growing to something in the region of £75million.

David Murray. SDM bathed in media acclaim and was no doubt a pure ego induced showboat, so the work colleague claimed that while David Murray had control of Rangers it was their best period, they now had bragging rights within the Scottish game, as they saw top names in football brought to the club. He was the man sanctioning this extravagant spending, he brought the big names to their club, and was famously quoted as saying “For every fiver Celtic spend, we’ll spend a tenner.”

Something you might say that actually occurred when Celtic bought Chris Sutton for £6million so SDM went out and bought Tore Andre Flop(sp) for £12million.

But my colleague forgets (most conveniently) that SDM never spent his own money, but instead used other peoples money, whether that be from cash injections from outside of the club, using bank loans or money owed to HMRC and other creditors.

You could put forward a very strong argument that all of the above three shared greatly in the downfall of their club, one may even consider that SDM was the most reckless of the three in their fall from Scottish football as he sanctioned their money burning exercise….. but I will present you with the name of the man who was really responsible for their downfall, and this is an undeniable fact.

The man truly responsible may have come as a shock to him, however, I left my work colleague in no doubt, it was none of the above, it was actually….

John “Jock” Stein CBE

Should anyone ever ask you who killed Rangers, then you can unequivocally let them know that this great man was responsible for their death. 

Rangers died while trying to emulate the greatest manager Scotland has ever seen, with their “spendspend spend” devil may care philosophy.

He was the first manager of a British side to win the European Cup, with Celtic in 1967. Jock also guided Celtic to become the first Scottish team to win nine successive Scottish League titles between 1966 and 1974.

Yes, his Rangers died, while recklessly spending other peoples money, playing ineligible players, defrauding the tax man and countless others, while trying to catch up with, or hang on to the coat tails of Scotland’s greatest ever manager, and greatest ever team.

All their spending was “without a doubt” undertaken with their obsession of trying to play follow the leader, and it killed his Rangers and they were eventually liquidated, attempting a feat that was both futile and one they would never complete.

So to my work colleague and his club who crave honesty and transparency in the game….here endeth the lesson.

Let that sink in.

God bless you Jock.

Hail Hail

If you’d like to submit your thoughts for an article 

sentinelcelts@gmail.com

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BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 5, 2024 7:35 am

The Sentinel Celts Charity Drive has nominated Blood Cancer UK as the recipient for funds for the next six months to 31/07/2024,and we are getting close to achieving our SECOND TARGET.

We have set up a GoFundMe page for those who have some spare cash to donate,even from a lucky windfall or finding a tenner in the street.

Click on the link for more details,including how to donate.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/sentinel-celts?utm_campaign=p_lico+share-sheet&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=customer

Please give generously to a very deserving cause. Although our first targets have now been achieved-and many thanks for your generosity!-we can always hope to do more.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 5, 2024 7:37 am

VIVE LE RESOLUTION!!!!

You can read our article on a resolution for improving refereeing standards here.

https://sentinelcelts.com/2024/03/22/resolution-on-refereeing-standards/

Join the growing numbers of our readers who have had enough of referees in hun scarves.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 5, 2024 7:37 am

JOBO POTY Competition

sencelpoty@gmail.com

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 5, 2024 7:38 am

Napsters,follow the link. New month,new page.

https://sentinelcelts.com/2024/04/04/the-sentinel-celts-grand-annual-naps-competition-part-seven/

Look out too for a separate article on a Grand National sweep,which I’ll put up later and which will be drawn on the Friday before the race.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 5, 2024 7:40 am

Advance link to the Aintree Naps Competition.

https://sentinelcelts.com/2024/04/04/the-chalmersbhoy-aintree-naps-competition/

Look out too for a separate article on a Grand National sweep,which I’ll put up later and which will be drawn on the Friday before the race.

Sips
April 5, 2024 8:35 am

The above all SPOT ON Bobby.👏👏👍☘️

Auldheid
April 5, 2024 8:38 am

ASWGL

Sevco, who incidentally did not qualify for SFA membership as Sevco did not have three years worth of audited accounts (which was required for SFA membership)..

=/=/
Purely in the interests of accuracy and because it provides the necessary authority that TRFC are a NEW club/company according to UEFA Rangers FC IL were unable to obtain UEFA licence in 2012 because they were unable to provide audited accounts for 2011/12. That is one year.

Sevco were ineligible to apply for a UEFA licence until 2016, ie 3 years because they did not have 3 years of SFA Membership until then.

The authority for this was in Article 12 of UEFA FFP now Art14 in UEFA FSR.

The SFA granted Sevco/TRFC SFA Membership using the discretioney element of the SFA rules with title Prohibition of Transfer of .Membership but UEFA did not recognise/accept that this meant continuing Membership of SFA as to do so would damage the integrity of UEFA completions.

It’s a pity there was not the equivalent of Art12 in Scottish football or that UEFA were not involved in the 5WA.

To be really geeky the reason Traverso Head of Club Licensing described TRFC Ltd and RIFC Plc as NEW club/company in 2016 was because both entities were new from 2012, RIFC Plc becoming into existence in 2012.

Again this was total accurate under Art12 of FFP which allowed a club to apply for a licence as a single entity or a company operating a club to apply on a club’s behalf

Of course before 2012 there was no separate company operating Rangers who applied for a licence as Rangers Football Club.

I doubt clarifying to your friend with this information will change his mind but it is important that when it comes to debunking the same club myth us Tim’s know the full extent of the damage Rangers FC Il, the SFA and then SPL have done to the integrity of Scottish Football long term in pursuit of a short term fix.

Your conclusion re Jock Stein being prime cause is correct but SDM should be jailed for what he did.

Auldheid
April 5, 2024 8:53 am

Oglach

I meant to say thanks for providing an answer to the question about buying shares. It saved me having to check but I knew it wasn’t straight forward.

Can I ask if you are a member of the CST or indeed if any posters here are?

Just Sayin’
April 5, 2024 8:57 am

It’s always good to reflect on the impermanence of existence. Particularly theirs.

“I have seen things you peepul wouldn’t believe.
Grown men in distress as the big hoose might close.
I watched Moonbeams promised and disappear into the night.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.”

Time waits for no one.
succumb to your fate.

Jobo Baldie
April 5, 2024 8:59 am

Good morning friends and a Big Happy Friday to all who post or lurk on this fine site.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 5, 2024 9:12 am

Morning,JOBO

Jobo Baldie
April 5, 2024 9:18 am

Some extra Sevco thoughts of my own that I’ve been known to throw into any ‘same club’s arguments –
Given that Rangers finished 2nd in the SPL in 2011-12, in the following season why did Sevco have to enter the Scottish Cup in the 2nd round?
Why did the ‘same club’ have to be awarded a temporary licence to play their opening game of season 2012-13 against Brechin?
When Steven Naismith joined Everton, why was there no transfer fee? On 22 December 2010, Naismith signed a new four-and-a-half-year contract to stay with the Rangers, keeping him tied to the club until at least May 2015. There was no transfer fee involved as the player had refused to have his contract transferred from the old to the new company controlling Rangers.

Angel Gabriel
April 5, 2024 9:28 am

ASWGL

Transparency ? There’s a word that the Orcs and their brothers in the SFA may mention but never implement.

The most sorry example being the complete sham of the Lord Nimmo Smith enquiry.

The SFA president at the time, Campbell Ogilvie , set the parameters for the enquiry, including the dates where the “enquiry “ would examine and judge.
From memory , the summary stated when the enquiry gave its findings, went along the opening lines of …

The rule breaking was serious, deliberate, and prolonged.

The above however, didn’t make the headlines, instead the MSM focused on LNS stating that no sporting advantage had achieved ( despite withholding and spending approx £70 million due in tax ) when “winning “ league titles and cups .
The get out clause was that Rangers ( deceased) had never been found guilty of tax evasion !!

This bullshit came as a big surprise to those of us who were well aware that Sir Minty was found guilty in a previous case . His lawyer claimed that side letters didn’t exist. The prosecution then proceeded to produce said side letters ( discovered in a raid on Ibrox by the City of London Police investigating fraudulent transfer deals) much to the embarrassment of Sir Minty and his legal team.
Guilty as charged ya cheating C##t.

This is where the parameters were important. Ogilvie had set the dates of the enquiry to start after that particular court case . Clever crooked or both . The Orcs received a fine that I’m not sure has ever been paid !!

I remember vividly the palpable anger after that enquiry on the Timternet . Some said they would never again pay into the farce that is Scottish football and many haven’t ever returned .
The anger and resentment wasn’t helped by Celtic’s response. Big Pedro expressed surprise at the judgement !!

If your colleague ever mentions the word transparency again, ask him the meaning and ask for an example when his team or the SFA have ever displayed it .

Either that or just tell him to get tae F##c .
This option is easier than explaining corruption to an Orc .

Thanks for the article, these wee historical recaps remind me why beating that mob , whichever version, gladdens my heart. HH

ernie lynch
April 5, 2024 9:32 am

The five way agreement:

Rangers FC
” means an association football club operated by RFC which played in the Scottish Premier League during season 2011/12 and previously”

So when was this club formed?

What type of legal entity is it?

What is its governing document?

Who are its office holders?

Why was it not a party in its own right to the five way agreement?

Does it have contractual capacity?

Has it ever been a party in any form of litigation?

Do HMRC or any other statutory agency recognise its existence?

Did any of the five teams of lawyers involved in the drafting and revising of the five way agreement raise any of these issues?

Have Celtic, as the leading member of two of the five parties to the five way agreement, asked for clarification of any of these points?

It kind of matters because if there is in fact no such thing as an association football club called Rangers Football Club then the whole agreement falls apart and we’ve all been, and continue to be, conned.

Auldheid
April 5, 2024 9:50 am

Angel Gabriel.

The original date range for LNS was based on when SPL were formed in 1998.

It changed to 23 Nov 2000 because that was the date of the first side letter that Duff and Phelps supplied to SPL Lawyers Harper and McLeod. There is evidence to support this.

Much of it is set out at

https://res12.uk/part-5/

including Rangers dishonesty to HMRC but in the absence of that evidence which Duff and Phelps should have supplied to SPL lawyers, LNS was able to say there was no question of dishonesty individual or corporate which when it came out should have seen the LNS Commision voided.

Instead it was avoided by SPL clubs including Celtic as Eric Reilly was posted a parcel of evidence from Scottish Football Monitor contributors as well as other SPL Board members.

It became pass the parcel from SPL lawyers to SFA but when the CW trial made it clear in 2017 some dodgy stuff was going on, the SFA refused to pursue although they were aware of the fix.

It’s all set out at the link provided.

Auldheid
April 5, 2024 9:56 am

Ernie Lynch

You bring out an important point.

The 5WA is where the idea of a club separate from its owner/company first appeared in respect of Rangers.

That was the idea was conceived and Neil Doncaster and Rod McKenzie were partners in its copulation.

UEFA btw were not buying it as it damages the integrity of UEFA competitions under Art12 of FFP.

It is a licence to dump debt as result of paying wages that would be unaffordable if debts were honoured.

Totally unfair on honest clubs in Scotland and Europe, whom if the truth came out, had a case to seek compensation.

That is why imo the cover up was so massive and essential.

Bada Bing
April 5, 2024 10:13 am

Not seen any photos or videos

of McGregor training this week, which is a worry

SteveNaive
April 5, 2024 10:19 am

A really good article thank you.
At the risk of being deemed contrary, maybe we should concentrate on Celtic !
Prep,
Team,
Tactics
Tactics on taking the lead
Tactics on going behind
Tactics and personnel last 15 minutes
Injuries and replacements
Formation
Formation in the event of ten men.
Breakfast
Favourite songs
Person they’d most like to meet. !

Lost in translation ...
April 5, 2024 10:24 am

ASWGL

The issue in all of this is that for many — sorry most — in Govan rationality left the building long ago.
The idea of a “Cargo Cult” has been used to try and explain their behaviour over the years,
Probably not ideal but it does reflect their stunning ignorance on these matters.
They are clutching at straws because that is all they have.

Regarding their demise — I have another view.
TFOD1.0 collapsed because of one person — SDM.
The builders and various “Jocks” managed to deal with our success as best they could.
However SDM became consumed with matching our success and his ego drove them over the cliff.

Small man with very limited ability / huge ego meets national icon / establishment cultural phenomenon …
What could possibly go wrong — quite a lot as it turned out and we are still dealing with the aftershocks.

From memory SDM was such small potatoes that his local club said no.
Allegedly he got a knockback from his local society with secrets because he was not from good stock.
Everything changed when he realised the levers he had in play with Govan FC.
And his ego made sure that every opportunity was played out to the max.

Tax dodging — he tried discounted options until that was shown up in court.
He tried EBTs — starting with MIM as well as the players — and that had more resilience towards the efforts of HMRC.
However he made an erse of it with the side letters — EBTs might work if it is on trust in / on trust out.
Side letters / secondary contracts that guaranteed the payments — the HMRC could not believe their luck.

SDM to me is the guy who should take all the blame.
He industrialised the advantages that TFOD1.0 had due to its cultural icon status.

It was not enough that individual MIB helped them out — the MIB bureaucracy had to make sure it happened.
It was not enough that individual journalists were fans with a typewriter when dealing with Govan FC.
Their editors had to make sure it was happening with a side order of doing us down while they were at it.
His ego could not take criticism so along with max positive their had to be no negative.

Then there is the political angle — Tory prep for the 1992 election saw him as a help.
And he responded as best he could as he basked in the attention it gave him.

SDM + TFOD1.0 = Nitro meets glycerine as described elsewhere.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 5, 2024 10:25 am

ASWGL

What a terrific article,mate. Really hits where it hurts,brings back all the memories. The good ones,like them going to the wall. The bad ones,like everyone pretending it never happened. Our own “Dallas” shower scene. Makes you wonder how they got away with it-yet they did! And as far as I know,the taxpayer,whether via HMRC,the justice system compensation payments or Lloyds,are out of pocket by about a billion quid!

All because of a handshake,a goat and a rolled-up trouser leg.

Big Audio Dynamite
April 5, 2024 10:28 am

Celtic charged its own fans £50 to see us play them without uttering a word publically ..
And all they had to do was ask who exactly are we playing today.
They didn’t! That tells me all I need to know about our role in this.
If we had asked questions, I may well have been able to swallow it and continue on ..
Regardless of any excuses made on behalf of the club, we happily conned our own to aid in their survival.
The whole thing is fucking sickening and shameful, and even more so watching them win ANYTHING!!
I can’t even watch these games anymore cause of how I feel about this.
And the pony excuse about us having to go through official channels just doesn’t wash ..Celtic should have put us first!

ernie lynch
April 5, 2024 10:33 am

Auldheid

To add insult to injury the SFA have issued their own fairly detailed guidance on what a ‘club’ actually is and what formats there are to chose from.

LEGAL STRUCTURES FOR YOUR CLUB

‘One of the most important choices you will make when forming your sports club is which legal structure to adopt The same issues can arise at a later stage in the club’s development, when it may be appropriate to adopt a different legal structure – either because there is a need to have a more robust structure to ensure good governance and protection against key risks, given the increased scale of the operations or because there are new opportunities (perhaps those related to the community empowerment agenda) which can only be accessed if the club adopts a new structure. The choices are plentiful and it can seem overwhelming deciding which option to take. It’s worth taking your time over the decision and making sure the structure you choose is right for your club, as each structure has its own strengths. This guide will walk through the various structures available to your club and outline the benefits and limitations of each legal form……….’

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/media/2286/legal-structures-for-your-club.pdf

Lost in translation ...
April 5, 2024 10:35 am

BMCUW

Bit quiet in here recently …
The usual suspects bumping their gums as board groupies / PL apologists.
All gone quiet very suddenly.

Finally — do you have any info on the 5WA?
I think I have seen it in passing / read the headlines.

Any info on it?

A copy of said agreement?
A timeline and a list of the actors involved?
Any context to who wrote it and who signed it?

SteveNaive
April 5, 2024 10:36 am
Big Audio Dynamite
April 5, 2024 10:40 am

Oglach,

Glad to see you’ve seen through the troll’s act.
Here for one reason, to cause as much division as possible.
Should be sHUNned, if people value this little site’s survival ..
Cause make no mistake, bringing disruption to it is always their goal.

Lost in translation ...
April 5, 2024 11:00 am

SN @ 10.19

Sunday — I think BR will play it pretty straight.
MOR to play even though he is very unsettled at the moment.

CMcG — I would not expect him to start.
I appreciate he is our lucky icon vs TFOD2.1 but to me it would look like desperation.
Coming back from a big injury with no game minutes — not great prep for a big game.

We have enough talent to see us through even if Ludge MIB looms large.
RH / TI / MOR or PB would be a good start.
Would prefer OTH to be involved.

Issues are many …

LS — his form on the day.
GT — how long will he last before the doubt creeps in?
AJ — settles in to a good game?
MOR — settled not arguing with himself.
TI — Up to game speed from the off.
DM — Fully focused / man on a mission would be great.

Positives are quite a few …

Passing game on point — if we have the confidence to pass through their press we will win.
High press means pockets of space around the halfway line — they can’t be everywhere.
KF in the side means a high line will be an accident waiting to happen.

Our friends in Govan — they have some new blood / some new talent but they are still relying on an old guard who are limited / always have a mistake in them.

Variables:

Ludge MIB performance
Ludge VAR performance.
TFOD2.1 performance — swimming in caffeine / swimming in asthma drugs before the game?
JL for one seems to have found third gear this season which is strange given his age.
RJ anywhere near getting a game?

BR and squad — fully aligned?

My thoughts — tough gig but we have the talent to force the game.
We are just a bit lumpy with gaps in the matchday squad.
OF PLC wants a home win.

Auldheid
April 5, 2024 11:09 am

Steve Niave

Official, there’s a paper on it.

https://x.com/stephebissett/status/1775886120582344735?s=48&t=2ElpRlILCqM0NoIPSsrTqQ

===
I posted a link to that before knowing it was not a published piece of research that contains an error, either a typo or failure to grasp a basic point.

So I would not be using it to support the case in the same way Alan Morrison did in the ACSOM podcast that has wheeled out the purveyor of Fake News on Twitter Jas Boyd to challenge the findings.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 5, 2024 11:11 am

MM

From January 25 2020,”strongly suggesting” that PL lied to shareholders at the 2019 AGM.

https://sentinelcelts.com/2020/01/25/that-5wa-e-mail-a-silver-bullet-or-a-smoking-gun/

Auldheid
April 5, 2024 11:14 am

Ernie Lynch

I will have to check that advice and see if it aligns with UEFA Art14 of FSR by which I mean does the guidance make it OK for a club to dump debt and carry on as same club with the debt removed from their accounts in order to get a UEFA licence immediately after the season the debt was dumped.

Lost in translation ...
April 5, 2024 11:19 am

When are we going to have the second instalment of the “Irish Slavery Myth” debate?
Looking forward to “Stormfront” opening an office on the Falls Road.
Mining that seam of interweb nonsense.

I blame it on the schools and their lack of rigour in their teaching of history.

Funny how the focus is on the way that the establishment economic order in days gone by (mis)treated global resources to their own benefit rather than the way they (mis)treated local resources to deliver a pseudo aristocratic lifestyle for the top 10 and then 15% of the population.

All those Victorian stone villas and hunting lodges were built on the bones of a working class that was worked to death and consequently died young at no cost to the economic elite.

Better that we all beat ourselves with sticks over our national engagement with the opportunities of trans Atlantic trade and the new resources and cash crops that it opened up.

Than ask questions about the way that the establishment exploited local resources to their own advantage for hundreds of years and how this imbalance continues to influence our modern way of life.

Fewer slogans more thinking is the way forward.
I hope the GB get the message soon.

Auldheid
April 5, 2024 11:19 am

Lost in translation …
SN @ 10.19

Sunday — I think BR will play it pretty straight.
MOR to play even though he is very unsettled at the moment.

===
I’ll bite. How the feck do you know that?

Have you spoken to him and even if he is unsettled asked why he is?

Could it be he knows he is not playing at his very best and that is unsettling him?

Why not say I believe MOR is unsettled and this is why. Set it out as an opinion not a fact.

Auldheid
April 5, 2024 11:25 am

Jobo Balde

When those points are made the answer is always ” aye but, no but, aye but” until the utterer becomes a parody of a TV show character.

As Rabbie Burns wrote “facts are chiels that winna ding” and he a Mason by all accounts too.

Bada Bing
April 5, 2024 11:25 am

Callum training today 👍

Lost in translation ...
April 5, 2024 11:27 am

MOR — unsettled?

Behaviour in games / on live TV.
He started the season arguing with himself. / then he started arguing with the team.
He then had a Jan transfer window where he was seemingly in play.
He is now back to arguing with himself during the game.

Form was pretty good in the autumn — 60 minutes fully on it.
He is not playing well at the moment — some nuggets of good play but not much.
He looked embarrassed when he scored on Sunday.
Not the behaviour you would expect after a goal.

I think he is a complex character with huge talent and ability.
Last season he struggled to maintain his form into the second half of the season.
AaM took his place and we prospered.

This season would appear to be following a similar trajectory.
Unfortunately we don’t have AaM sitting on the bench.

Fan
April 5, 2024 11:30 am

Lazarus whether we like it or not is here to stay.
A society clinging to historical relevancy will attach itself to anything it has no matter the truth.
The charlatans running our club subscribe to the same behaviour.
They have made us irrelevant to football worldwide to save the Huns for a Scottish society that was slavering at our potential demise pre Fergus.

Big Audio Dynamite
April 5, 2024 11:31 am

And right on cue 😏

Lost in translation ...
April 5, 2024 11:36 am

Comments on a football blog — relies heavily on others being fully up to speed with the game / the players / the detail.
Opinions in the main to keep the discussion flowing not root cause analysis and back to basic proofs to highlight ones supposed intellectual depth — but some will try to lead the conversation in that direction.

You know — low energy pseudo academic vibes that need full referencing and footnotes are very self indulgent.
Junior common room behaviours that stink of ego and grandstanding.
Not good.

Auldheid
April 5, 2024 11:38 am

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
MM

From January 25 2020,”strongly suggesting” that PL lied to shareholders at the 2019 AGM.

https://sentinelcelts.com/2020/01/25/that-5wa-e-mail-a-silver-bullet-or-a-smoking-gun/
====
Can I add to that as a result of PL doubling down at last AGM on his answer at the 2019 AGM about sight of the 5WA that PL was asked 2 questions not 1 at 2019 AGM, one being had he seen the 5WA the other being was anyone at Celtic involved in its development.

The latter was never answered.

One significant factor of Celtic’s knowledge of contents of 5WA would be that they would have known CAS were the final arbitrer from any complaint arising as a result, like a breach by Rangers of the overdue tax rules in 2011.

Perhaps PL did or didn’t knpw but had that knowledge been known in 2013 it could have been used to stop Res12 getting on the agenda as Res12 sought UEFA investigation although that in itself would have asked questions about Celtic’s involvement in the 5WA in 2013.

A karmic snooker caused by Malmo and Maribor ruining a cunning plan.

Lost in translation ...
April 5, 2024 11:38 am

AH @ MOR being unsettled

You must be a part timer.
Do keep up or failing that read back.

Auldheid
April 5, 2024 11:41 am

Lost in translation

Can you point me to the bit where you spoke to MoR about the reasons he was unsettled?
Not msm pish doing what you take as gospel.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 5, 2024 11:43 am

MM

Stop trolling. Whether that be on your chosen topic of Irish slavery,players being unsettled,or the 5WA. Or any other subject.

Lost in translation ...
April 5, 2024 11:44 am

BMCUW @ 11.11

Thanks for that — will try and read up about the details.
Interesting that Scottish football saw this as a solution to anything.
Doubly interesting some of the details they included and what was left out.

If that was the answer — then what was the question?
And who asked it and why?

Dogs dinner ?!?

Auldheid
April 5, 2024 11:46 am

Lost in Translation

So do you know for a fact the motivation for my input is to demonstrate my supposed intellectual ability?

Wrong on 2 counts, try working the other one out.

Football does not start when the referee blows the whistle or stop when he whistles time up.

What happens off the park influences what happens on it and is a legitimate area for discussion.

Otherwise it’s just another Plato’s Cave.

Lost in translation ...
April 5, 2024 11:54 am

BMCUW @ 11.43

There is no trolling — just questions / discussion about actual events.

5WA — not my hobby horse / in fact well behind the curve.

Slavery banner / Livi game on Sunday — asks more questions than it answers.
Plus we as a group seem to have an understanding of history that is ignorant at best / sleekit and devious at worst.
BLM movement vs US police of Irish extraction — damming article that was pretty new to me.

MOR / form — anyone who watched the game on Sunday would have to have questions about his engagement with the game.
The goal “celebration” would generate comment in any context.
We can’t wish it away / ignore it.

Big Audio Dynamite
April 5, 2024 12:04 pm

Anyone questioning the Sunday appointment of Beaton being labelled conspiracy theorists.

Or in other words, loonballs.

See how the game works?

Angel Gabriel
April 5, 2024 12:10 pm

Bada 11.25

Thanks for that . 👍 HH

Óglach
April 5, 2024 12:11 pm

Auldheid
Oglach
I meant to say thanks for providing an answer to the question about buying shares. It saved me having to check but I knew it wasn’t straight forward.

Can I ask if you are a member of the CST or indeed if any posters here are?
=====
No i am not a member of the CST, albeit i seem to recall a few posters ‘joined up’ when it seemed they were going to actually become the ‘voice of the support’ and we were being encouraged to join.

Auldheid
April 5, 2024 12:16 pm

Lost in translation

Good players are unsettled playing on the Livi surface.

Nevertheless MoR played the ball back to Bernardo under pressure for a goal and then scored himself.

I thought his reaction was thinking I’ve been denied a few goals by good goal keeping or defenders and I actually get one because of a goalies error.

But I could be wrong and he really was unsettled.

Auldheid
April 5, 2024 12:17 pm

Oglach

Thanks for reply and yes some did join only to be disappointed.

Óglach
April 5, 2024 12:27 pm

Ask yourself this wee question. Would a genuine Celtic supporter / fan post something as contentious as this on a Celtic supporters site

“Potato famine — not genocide just ignorance / stupidity / political dogma”

It’s not being polemic, its not even clever, it is trolling at its worst. Potato famine, otherwise known to the majority of the support as the Great Hunger or An Gorta mor and the later An gorta beag was just the Brits being a wee bit dumb.

I’d pay money to watch ‘thick cut’ stand in bar full of the Celtic support and spout some of the shite he posts on here. But you just know that would never happen.