Giving Us The Finger

Morning,all.

There is little doubt that the refereeing appointments since our manager’s appearance in front of the beaks four weeks ago have been made with one aim in mind-to point out to us uppity Tims that we may have won a skirmish but there is a war to be won.

Hark back to 3rd March and the game in question,the one which caused all the furore in the first place. Who was the referee,who was in charge of VAR? Respectively,Robertson and Beaton. That the punishment meted out to BR was the absolute minimum possible has clearly been felt in some quarters by the sort of peepul in power who take any form of dissent very personally.

These are not the types who allow the slightest hint of uppityness from the lower quarters to flourish. Oh no,this kind of thing must be stamped out immediately. And how best to go about that very thing?  To appoint those two officials in turn to our next four-and counting-games. Like playground bullies but on a more serious scale,they have told us that they have seen what we can do,now they will show us what they can do.  

So much for the impartiality of umpiring in sport.

Sports in general,IOC-ratified or not,rely on umpires and referees for all kinds of decision-making,whether it be of the instant kind like in football or delayed as in horse racing. Almost all of them are subject to later scrutiny,though few offences at this stage are considered of such importance that a result be overturned or a replay/rematch ordered. In truth,I’m not in favour of refereeing a game after the event,I don’t want court cases or similar clogging up an already congested calendar which would likely lead to major decisions like the destination of titles and even relegation being decided weeks and months later in a courtroom filled with lawyers.

But nor should we sit back and accept our matches being refereed by declared supporters and sympathisers of our biggest rivals. Our only rivals,in fact. It simply wouldn’t be allowed in any other country which presented itself as a serious footballing nation. People will tell us that there aren’t enough people interested in becoming referees who have no leaning either way,no personal or historic affiliation to either club.

I do have some sympathy with this notion. But I have no sympathy with the argument that says that because there is a lack of potentially unbiased or incompetent referees,we should just field the biased or incompetent ones. When a country has a shortage of a commodity at home,it imports it. That applies to a tin of tomatoes as much as it applies to referees. Scotland does not produce enough tomatoes to meet demands,so it imports from elsewhere. The same should also apply to our referees.

One aspect of all this has always been the appointment in Scotland of referees not only to matches involving their favourite team,but also to matches which involve their main rivals. Not just Celtic/Rangers but the likes of Hearts/Hibs as well. There’s even a new term for it-contextual rivalry. We know this because of events at the weekend down south,where a weakness in their own governance of refereeing impartiality has been made clear. While English referees must declare club allegiances to ensure that they are not awarded matches involving their favourites,there is no rule preventing appointment to a match involving their rivals,other than the obvious ones like Arsenal/Spurs or Utd/City. For rivalries like those are long-standing and entrenched,and it is pretty obvious that contentious appointments should be avoided.

Some rivalries though are more fleeting and shortlived. And mainly arise because of one-off events like the chase for a title or a relegation battle. As it was at the weekend,where one Stuart Attwell became the topic of discussion,and not in a nice way. Nottingham Forest had three very good penalty shouts in their match against Everton. Both clubs are in danger of being relegated this season due to a mix of bad results and points deductions,though Everton took a huge stride to safety last night by beating Liverpool. The team with most to gain from seeing Forest lose is likely to be Luton Town,who lie in 18th position to Everton’s 16th and Forest in 17th.

The question is-should a Luton Town fan be in position to affect the outcome of a game under these circumstances? The obvious answer to this is no,and that is the crux of the argument for Forest. They even warned the FA and PGMOL repeatedly about this but were ignored. Now it seems that they are likely to face a disrepute charge for highlighting what is IMO a clear breach of the spirit of the laws simply because such a situation hadn’t been dealt with beforehand. And naturally,the case is causing a bit of a brouhaha down south simply because such allegations of impropriety are almost unheard of there.

Good for them,I say. Such discrepancies need to be brought to wider attention to prevent them happening again. And in fairness,I expect action will be taken to avoid a repeat. It’s all been a bit of an embarrassment for the authorities,and for Stuart Attwell too. He is one of the better referees in the game and shouldn’t have been placed in such a position by his bosses. But there is no bar in Scotland to a referee being appointed to officiate in matches involving their favourite club nor that club’s main rivals. Contextual rivalry probably hasn’t even been thought about up here!

Except that it has,and that is why Sentinel Celts is asking for shareholders to support our AGM Resolution on refereeing standards.

You can read our article on a resolution for improving refereeing standards here.



Every shareholder added to our list inches us nearer to the Holy Grail of 100 which is required for a resolution to proceed. You know it makes sense,so please help in any way you can. After all,contextual rivalry in Scotland didn’t begin and end with Bobby Davidson and  the Scottish Cup Final of 1970,it is very much alive today. As the repeated two-fingered appointments of Robertson,Beaton,McLean and others show only too well.

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Above article by BMCUWP

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BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 25, 2024 4:57 am

The Sentinel Celts Charity Drive has nominated Blood Cancer UK as the recipient for funds for the next six months to 31/07/2024,and we are getting close to achieving our SECOND TARGET.

We have set up a GoFundMe page for those who have some spare cash to donate,even from a lucky windfall or finding a tenner in the street.

Click on the link for more details,including how to donate.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/sentinel-celts?utm_campaign=p_lico+share-sheet&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_source=customer

Please give generously to a very deserving cause. Although our first targets have now been achieved-and many thanks for your generosity!-we can always hope to do more.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 25, 2024 4:58 am

VIVE LE RESOLUTION!!!!

You can read our article on a resolution for improving refereeing standards here.

https://sentinelcelts.com/2024/03/22/resolution-on-refereeing-standards/

Join the growing numbers of our readers who have had enough of referees in hun scarves.

Just Sayin’
April 25, 2024 6:47 am

Played 6 won 5 drawn I, F 19 A 9.
Top of the League and into the Cup Final.

The foe malign have not been too successful since March 3rd and the subsequent hearing.

Of the 9 conceded the Tavpen is the only contentious one I can recall.
The rest are down to team failures. We need to score at least three a game to ensure we don’t lose! And fortunately we are averaging that.
( Our top goalscorer in that period?
Maeda with four ! Be good to get the occasionally maligned and derided Bhoy back.)

In the meantime focus on our own game and try as they might their malicious influence via insidious game management is seriously limited.

The bigger issue of improving refereeing standards via administrative reform is not an instant fix.
No harm in irate supporters at large highlighting the corruption in plain sight, of course, and amassing data that will help in challenging the status quo. However, that is not changing anything with six games remaining.

There is a lot of sound and fury needing to be blocked out and hopefully calm, professional heads at Lennoxtown prevail, forget the obvious, pathetic attempts at trying to undermine us and have us prepared game by game.
It’s what professionals do. That’s what really matters in the here and now.

A few well phrased comments ( even disingenuous ones like how good they are!) prior to Sunday re the quality of officiating required, puts pressure on the likes of Beaton & Co. Play them as they play us and put the focus on them.

There is a league to be won, after all.

San Luis
April 25, 2024 7:12 am

Just Sayin. In total agreement.

We know what we have to do and supporters of all clubs have to highlight the refereeing grievances as soon as they arise. SFA and League have to introduce a process to enable this with immediate response available to the Clubs .

The veil of silence and perception of bias at best and corruption at worst has to end. The VAR and Officials appointed have to be to the benefit of all clubs not just ONE..

Auldheid
April 25, 2024 8:13 am

Just Sayin

The Referee Res was never about a quick fix unless there had been a mass response which there has not been.

AGM papers start being drafted in Sept so plenty of time to get the issue on an official Celtic agenda.

Ironically if the title is lost because of a contentious decision or decisions the uptake might increase but that is the last thing we would want.

Of course if we win on football .merit alone then the feelings after Tynecastle that triggered the Res might be forgotten and needle goes around to the start of the song and we all sing along like before.

Hoop hoop hooray
April 25, 2024 8:21 am

Bobby
These are not the types who allow the slightest form of uppityness from the lower quarters to flourish.

I take it the other mob across the city arent from the lower quarters.

In first 4 months of 2024 Beaton Dickinson and McLean have been given 13 league games between them involving celtic and the tribute act. .

Collum and clancy between them have been given 2. Both were collum celtic games. Clancy hasnt had any. Neither have been allowed near a huns league game this year..
Presuming Collum and Clancy are in our top 6 refs since only 6 have currently referred a glasgow derby, isn’t it incredible that the only two the tribute act have complained about haven’t been near one of their games in 2024.

Big Audio Dynamite
April 25, 2024 8:25 am

How’s our strongly worded statement going?

No?!

Again …??

Oh well.

And around and around.

Our acting is rubbish.

We can’t even pretend to be angry!

Just Sayin’
April 25, 2024 8:36 am

Auldheid

I recognise the timescale involved.

Momentum is building with excellent analysis by the likes of Alan Morrison. I think this season the “pattern of assistance” has been so clear and obvious that there is no going back.
But of course the established Scottish dimension of deny and resist cannot be underestimated. Possibly within the corridors of our own club too.

I appreciate the difficulty in galvanising support but you’d think 100 supporters from the immediate blog communities would be achievable in a matter of weeks not months.

Highlighting the issues to a wider receptive audience- other clubs included – seems to be a problem.

Big Audio Dynamite
April 25, 2024 8:56 am

Crazy to think it’s been years since I actually feared any football foe.

Our biggest opponents are the men in black.

https://youtu.be/QNhGhxxNjeA?si=4KDq0ahFfQ4eFiui

Today’s referee is John Beaton.

John has been going to Ibrox since his mum and dad first took him wrapped in a shawl.

John has 279 Pannini sticker albums, but John has only ever filled in the Gers teams.

John says when he grows up he wants to be a ball-boy at Ibrox.

John says his biggest achievement was starting the Colin Jackson fan club.

John has one tattoo that reads …

Remember, Penalty to the Rangers!!!

Lost in translation ...
April 25, 2024 9:34 am

BMCUW

Probably see the BR case a bit differently to you.

One game suspension — the message that sent out to me is pretty straightforward.
The group involved in judging the case — you have a point but you said too much and we have to go by the book.
Therefore limited punishment — smallest suspension that could be handed out.

Ludge MIB response — they are not happy and they are flexing their muscles.
They are not happy at the limited sanction given to BR — they see it as a slap in the face..
So they make their feelings known by rubbing our noses in it with future appointments.
It is a lever they have so they are working it hard.

As with a lot of things done in anger — not clever / not subtle / probably counter effective.
We need to highlight the strange pattern that has developed over who gets what games.
Small gene pool so the patterns are easier to spot — just needs publicity.

Scottish football world — there are many cliques / many egos / quite a few viewpoints.
Some of the stuff that we witness is Govan FC booster club / some is pro SFA ego tripping / some is sectarian / some is anti us for being a big and fairly successful club.

The trick here is to try and drive wedges between the groups that we have to deal with.
Not to see them as some sort of huge uniform group working to the one agenda.
See them for the dogs breakfast of social inadequates that they are.
And deal with them one at a time.

If the SFA / SPL is a global laughing stock due to the performance of Ludge MIB / Ludge VAR.
Then our job is to highlight the jokes and generate an audience.
Hard work but that is what you need to do to win.
Full court press — all angles worked to the max.

Edit — The SFA and the SPL don’t have a sense of humour.

Craig 76
April 25, 2024 9:37 am

3pm kick off for cup final on 25th may
https://x.com/CelticFC/status/1783414122853347711

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 25, 2024 10:18 am

HOOPHOOPHOORAY

That was what I tried to use the BBC Football page for yesterday,to find out who had refereed us or them this season. Hopefully they will have that site back to its user-friendly best once the YTS guy responsible for the current mess goes back to making the coffee.

Big Audio Dynamite
April 25, 2024 11:48 am
SteveNaive
April 25, 2024 12:02 pm

Bobby

How very dare you disparage the YTS !
I was one in the late 70’s
Was called STEPS ( Special Temporary Employment Scheme ) then.
Glasgow Royal Infirmary.
£ 44 pw.
How they let me do those operations I’ll never know !

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 25, 2024 12:04 pm

STEVENAIVE

£44 pw in the late 70s?

Luxury!

SteveNaive
April 25, 2024 12:16 pm

Bobby,

Not when I had to hand in £15 dig money.
Saving up to get married ( no I didn’t ‘have to’)
I got the £4… and I had to get the bus in and out.
NME and Melody Maker… that was luxury !

Lost in translation ...
April 25, 2024 12:44 pm

YTS — very middle class / very Maggie.
Yoppers — that was where it was at.
Youth Opportunity Places — I think.

Too young — just — to have been involved but do have memories of the time.

The Saatchi political advert in 1979 still haunts me.
Just how lacking in energy were the progressive politicians of the day.
All they had to mention was the rising employment stats that they had delivered.
Beyond irony that the Tories would have been interested in the unemployed — especially Maggie’s right wing mentalists.

The whole issue was driven by the early 60’s baby boom leading to loads of 16 year olds hitting the economy at the same time not the economic implosion vibe that the Tories tried to generate..

Tough times that were going to get a lot tougher.

Wages — £130 top line in 1987 springs to mind.
£7.5K salary in 1986 is another number that sticks in the memory.

Craig 76
April 25, 2024 12:46 pm

YTS in 92 was £36 a week+ I got £15 for my weekly bus ticket from Forres to Elgin and dig money was £15 a week
37.5 hours a week for Texas (just ask for tom) homecare

The Nabbla
April 25, 2024 2:31 pm

Yts was part of denoting the end of post ww2 keynesian concencus and the continuation of monetarist policies(since 1976).It was part of much hidden unemployment from 1980 onwards to this day as the rollback of social aðvances made for all was neutered and capatilism became the mantra and goal of both parties

INIQUITOUS IV 👇
Thanks for your comment while back on knowledge of southside gangs,just my experience of going to a school were Silverburn is now.As i said i learned to run,prob overtaking Usaine Bolt and i was slow,suprisingly i liked school

You were a brave man bein a bus driver in 70s,i cant remember a bus upstairs not covered in 1ink marker
I remember 1 time goin to shawlands,get on bus,sit downstair,suddenly as driving down to pollokshaws west alarm goes off,upstairs back window open and all the chair seats getting launched out,driver radio’d ahead we go round roundabout and straight to pollokshaws polis station,mental as.:-)))

Good news about Daizen,wish we had kept it quiet but there you go.

Hail Hail

Lost in translation ...
April 25, 2024 2:43 pm

BMCUW

Must be a tough gig keeping this place in order.
No wonder you don’t like politics or economics being discussed on here.
The ignorance to be found in the wilder parts of Pollock really is really a sight to behold.

Youth Opportunity Programme — 1978
YTS / Youth Training Scheme — 1983.

Can remember the Kiltoon Coop getting their first Yopper.
How things have changed now that the birth rate has gone down.

The Nabbla
April 25, 2024 3:25 pm

Lit
Yop ’78,Yts 83 both parts of monetarisms hidden unemployment(u/e) The need for natural rate of u/e- get them off real figures,pursued by both ideologies since 1976.
Nowt wrong with Pollok,your spelling would be corrected there easily and a lot of good tims educated there,2 are on cfc board!!.:-)
You have a good day now.
HH

Leggy
April 25, 2024 3:53 pm

Afternoon all,

Sitting by the pool here and the guy beside us has got a Jimmy Edwards type moustache with the ends pointing skywords.

He has ‘ these things on his earlopes ” which are strange and again pointing upwards.

My wife went ‘ That’s very strange” .

It’s is I said, but I bet he. gets a cracking picture on his telly .

SantaprovoCSC 🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀

Bada Bing
April 25, 2024 3:54 pm

We’re pleased to give notice that tickets for next month’s cinch Premiership clash v Hearts (Saturday, May 4 | Kick-off 3pm) will go on general sale from 10am tomorrow, Friday, April 26.

Your support is crucial in the league run-in and a packed Paradise behind the Bhoys makes all the difference.
Ticket information
Tickets for the match will be available to buy online only, priced from:
Adult
£36

Under 16 & 65+
£23

Under 13
£14

16 roads
April 25, 2024 4:19 pm
Big Audio Dynamite
April 25, 2024 4:55 pm
Bigrailroadblues
April 25, 2024 4:55 pm

Leggy
The sunny climate hasn’t improved yer patter. Nearly as bad as Big Jimmy and Iniquitous IV. And I’m having to suffer BJ and the rabble tomorrow. 🙄

Auldheid
April 25, 2024 5:09 pm

Just Sayin.

Auldheid

I recognise the timescale involved.

Momentum is building with excellent analysis by the likes of Alan Morrison. I think this season the “pattern of assistance” has been so clear and obvious that there is no going back.
But of course the established Scottish dimension of deny and resist cannot be underestimated. Possibly within the corridors of our own club too.

I appreciate the difficulty in galvanising support but you’d think 100 supporters from the immediate blog communities would be achievable in a matter of weeks not months.

Highlighting the issues to a wider receptive audience- other clubs included – seems to be a problem.
=====
The ACSOM podcast with strong support for the Referee Res from Celtsbynumbers was not a matter of chance.

NotTheView ran with it last match day and there is a variation on that article for them to consider for next home game.

James Forrest blogged on it but Phil MacGioll Bhian has been a big disappointment having blanked the source of many of his articles on Res12 for unknown reasons.

An effort will be made to get support from the CSA as phase two aims to involve ST Holders and the CST, who will have records of at least 100 shareholders have not engaged so far based but will be aware of the Res from postings on a private what’s app group to widen awareness

Perhaps a more direct effort to get them on board is needed.

I think a bit more needs to be written about the process itself to address the thinking that the Res will be voted down because of shareholding numbers so what is the point, but that would require Celtic justifying inaction or explaining what they are doing to bring about the benefits the Res claims.

What is being attempted here is to break the mould in terms of drawing issues from the wider support to Celtic’s attention at any time issues of concern arise, not just waiting until the date of the AGM is announced by Celtic with the CST traditionally the only group who present resolutions.

The process is about emancipation of the support as a whole.

Bada Bing
April 25, 2024 5:43 pm

Buckie Thistle don’t meet promotion criteria, EK in play off final

Mike in Toronto
April 25, 2024 5:51 pm

Apparently, Keiran Tierney has picked up another injury and may miss the Euro’s.

Leggy
April 25, 2024 6:04 pm

BRRB,

Enjoy yourself tomorrow and tell all the Bhoys, I’m asking for them 💚💚

And,,,,,,,,,, get a photo for keepsake 😁

Oh,

That Jimmy Edwards guy is going home tonight !!!!!

Remember the Del Boy episode with the planes and the Stataleite dish 😁😁

Hope nobody is flying to or from Palma tonight !!!!

HH 🍀🍀🍀

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 25, 2024 6:29 pm

MM 243

Not at all,the vast majority of posters seem to appreciate the reasons for requesting that politics be given a wide berth. Same for keeping exchanges civil,for example. Your experience elsewhere should explain why that is probably a good idea.

As for today’s mentions of YTS etc being political,I think they are more an “All our yesterdays” trip down memory lane.

petec
April 25, 2024 6:46 pm

Daizen being back for the Huns game would be Monumental, IMHO.

He owns that side of the pitch in these games. His goal against Dundee was magical. He slowed Time down on that ocassion!!!!

Never heard of Hun players being touted away by the Press? at a key stage of the Season 🙂

It wullnae be under the lights but 11th of May could be Awesome and potentionally an Awesome day in Celtic history.

Here is hopin’.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 25, 2024 6:48 pm

BAD 455

I always thought that the Lions were broken up far too soon,and I think most fans agree with that. By 1971,although Ronnie Simpson was 40yo and Stevie Chalmers 35yo,only John Fallon,31,John Clark,30,and Bertie Auld,32,could really be considered as past their prime. The rest,in their early 20s in Lisbon,were if anything approaching their peak years.

The big problem of course was The Quality Street Kids. We couldn’t keep The Lions and the kids. There are only eleven players plus one sub,and something had to give. It didn’t help that by 1977 the only kid left playing regularly was Danny,the exodus beginning with Lou Macari in early 73.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 25, 2024 6:49 pm

PETEC

Any day we beat the huns is an awesome day.

Big Audio Dynamite
April 25, 2024 7:13 pm

Bobby,

I only just realised John Hughes was still only 28 when he was forced to go to Crystal palace.

Shame.

Wish we had him right now.

petec
April 25, 2024 7:25 pm

Bobby Bhoy, I think we will only win one of the 2 Derbies, hopefully enough to get a Double.

Impressed by the Celtic Support lately, moaning minnies dae my nut in, Thankkfully, despite unprecedented Success.

European Issues. We have to get a lot better, a lot better.

Main Point is SUPPORT the TEAM.

The Bank of Celtic does not Wash.

Bigrailroadblues
April 25, 2024 7:34 pm

Pete
Hope you are well kiddo. 👍

Sol Kitts
April 25, 2024 8:18 pm

City lead 1-0, great header by de Bruyne.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 25, 2024 8:20 pm

Peach from de Bruyne. 15 yard diving header.

Bada Bing
April 25, 2024 8:25 pm

Larssonesque

Sol Kitts
April 25, 2024 8:27 pm

2-0 City, Foden free kick takes a big deflection into the net.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 25, 2024 8:27 pm

Foden 2-0

Sol Kitts
April 25, 2024 8:34 pm

Foden scores again 3-0.

Auldbhoy67
April 25, 2024 8:35 pm

Anybody heard or read anything about the bottle and object thrown at O’Riley and Kennedy at bigotdome. That’s almost 3 weeks ago. Does the CCTV no work when we are there or is like VAR operator and just a total bias job.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 25, 2024 8:42 pm

AULDBHOY 67

Nothing ever happens,as if nothing ever happened.

Margaret McGill
April 25, 2024 8:59 pm

Bobby
Reading your leading article it reminded me of the corporate concept of planned obsolescence.
In the corporate world building a better mousetrap or investing in the future can sometimes be self detrimental to your long term financial well being. Most modern corporate gravy trains have a bit of the Luddite about them. Which brings me to the Celtic PLC.
Don’t you think the focus and attention on refereeing in Scotland this season is due to the fact that Celtic have hedged their bets a bit in hoping that the Huns don’t go under again hence the marginal squad and quite frankly the most blatant cheating in Scottish football history ? Which is saying something? By all accounts Celtic should be out of sight already but IMHO it’s deliberate treachery from within. Is that just an acceptable part of being a Celtic supporter these days? I’m fully expecting Celtic to be kicked off the fucking park in the remaining games without a peep from the club. A ridiculous state of affairs if you ask me

Lost in translation ...
April 25, 2024 9:01 pm

Egg chaser talking tactics — what could possibly go wrong …

L/pool last night / not playing well — they have the ball and move forward at the halfway line.
Their front five are in a line pushing up on the Everton back line.
Total lack of energy / invention.
No depth / few options.

Citeh tonight / scoring goals — again with the ball and moving forward.
They play with a front line of three players including 2 wingers.
Two others dropping deep to offer more options in the MF.
Much more movement / much more invention.
Happy to play through the middle.
Not back ‘n forth in a horseshoe.

We could learn a lot from their set up / drive / energy.
Our MF has been poor for most of the season.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
April 25, 2024 9:14 pm

MAGS

An appalling vista.

We’ve had to face up to a few of those in our time.

Auldbhoy67
April 25, 2024 9:15 pm

BMCWP
Bobby

I know it did take time to get the previous thug charged etc but it really is a bad show once again by our club. They are looking at supporters going back there and can’t even guarantee the safety of our staff FFS.
On another subject BBC- If you tap on the football game you are interested in it will take you to the page and show you scorers. Just tried it. Not ideal but better than nothing at present.

Margaret McGill
April 25, 2024 9:18 pm

Bobby
Yes it is.
However, many old Tim warriors like you see on here are paying into it. So how do you explain that?