One more for the history annals
We probably all recall the infamous saying ‘it’s a good day to bury bad news’ which was an unwritten rule in politics akin to ‘never let a good crisis go to waste’.
The bad news however was announced, it ‘just happened’ to be overshadowed. But to cover bases, the bad news emerged.
Scottish Football is riddled with politics, yet it doesn’t possess that certain political trait, it just doesn’t release the bad news at all!
I was thinking today about not the actual Kuhn/Kyogo offside, but how this has been handled by the requisite parties involved. We know now we would have won anyway, call me obsessed or a sore winner, but it’s the margins sometimes, margins like that can cost points in the future, if things don’t change odds are it will.
First, the aggrieved party, Celtic.
One journo apparently got the scoop. We wrote a letter about it to whomever, and the rest of the hacks ran with this story. Why not state via social media a letter has been sent? There’s an information gap between ‘Celtic are believed to have sent’ and ‘Celtic have sent’.
The club have also been conducting several ‘meet the fans’ with new players, standard and timely also.
After a few days ‘its’ died down amongst the support who in fairness have their own things to do when Celtic aren’t playing. Some watch the Internationals, but I would wager the majority just live a normal life before living the Tim-life when proper football returns.
That’s why the timing of this scandal is terrible.
If Celtic had been playing at home on the Wednesday night, even the following Saturday, the Board members are forced to make an appearance in certain lounges, and the question might have been raised. An empty Celtic Park for weeks really suits the guilty parties, and it surely eased the pressure once ‘those lines’ went viral, for there was no gathering to express discontent, merely the ‘report’ of a letter. A Green Brigade banner?
Maybe.
But the truth is a mixture of,,,success on the day, a statement performance, the break in football, leave it to the club, and more,,has seen the issue pushed to the backburner.
Hampden has said nothing as far as I know. Nor any referees body.
The media said the very minimum on the situation, but recently (showing they’ve moved on) did the old classic ‘divide and conquer’ squirrel by throwing Anthony Ralston under the bus. It’s a sign how much print and television has lost its impact when the majority of Tims couldn’t give a toss about said opinion pieces.
So that’s it then, we’ve moved on from Squigglyline-Gate.
And that’s disgraceful.
Give serious Sports Lawyer Di Marco two lines drawn like that and it’s game, set, and match. He did a fine job last season ala Yang/Hearts/Rodgers, and that evidence was less conclusive.
But we’ve moved on.
And I wonder, how many times have we ‘just moved on’?
Off the top of my head,,
The Janefield Street crush.
The bottle smashing on a Celtic employees head.
The bottle hitting the crossbar ala Joe Hart (wasn’t he so cool that day?)
Morelos Lamborgini exploding, or sabotaged or something. Tims got the blame.
‘We burnt ‘ The Rangers first team bus.
And on the field there’s at least one ‘shoulda been a yellow’ tackle per game. Ref just affected the game, in his own way. We usually overcome though, and it gets lost in the grand scheme of things.
So Im genuinely not expecting a reply/response/reaction to ‘that’ goal, even on a bad news day.
One more for the history annals.
None more for justice.
By Mahe sentinelcelts@gmail.com
As you will all know,the site finally nominated a charity to be the recipient of the generosity and largesse of yourselves,and I think you all deserve huge applause for raising just short of £2k.
⭐️👏☘️👍🍾
That period has passed,and a new charity has been chosen to take us through to the end of the year. A landslide vote in favour of
Lanarkshire Cancer Care Trust.
Once again,CHALMERSBHOY has done the spadework via JustGiving.
Here is the link for the Lanarkshire Cancer Care Trust,our new charity which we will support.
https://www.justgiving.com/page/sentinel-celts-1722588284471?utm_medium=fundraising&utm_content=page%2Fsentinel-celts-1722588284471&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=pfp-share
Default payment method seems to be ApplePay,which won’t suit everyone. There is an option on the page to change that to your preferred means.
I had Kyogo to score anytime and 4 nil to Celtic, so that honest mistake cost me £130.
I’ll never get over it haha
Excellent article,MAHE. I’m ashamed to admit it,but I’d almost forgotten about the offside-despite kicking up about it only last week. Though I’m sure I’d remember it at the first mention of Dallas or Beaton.
The club needs to be more upfront and in yer face about these decisions. Brendan certainly was after the Hearts game,even though he had to be more diplomatic than most of us on here. However,thinking back,I don’t recall any immediate support from the board backing their men,even if they did employ di Marco for the disciplinary.
BR was also quite clear after the R2ngers game that he thought it was a wrong decision,yet silence once again from our suits. Maybe they should have listened to my suggestion to have the game independently analysed. But it’s not like we can blame that on some hangover from the 5WA,where were told to remember about the buried bodies,because that silence long predates 2012.
Good morning, friends.
My own thought on the decision in question was that as it was SO tight and too close to call, the original decision of the linesman should have stood. I didn’t see anything to convince me that Kuhn was definitely (or clearly) inside or offside.
The proposed change to the offside rule whereby if any part of the attacking team player is ‘on’ can’t come quick enough.
3 more sleeps.
Ah! Ha! The goal that wasn’t according to BR
The swivelly blue line proves that Collum is totally ineffectual
Hail Hail
Chairbhoy
Respectfully disagree that Collum is ineffectual.
He has been 100% effectual in allowing the cheating to continue.
The SFA very deliberately picked an alleged fenian in Poor Wullie to allow the cheating to continue and it clearly has!
Fan…
Yes, it looks like the RE teacher and English VAR man were handpicked to give the illusion of change.
They’ll have to get better at it, chalking off 25% of our goals is hardly going to put a dent in our season..
Hail Hail
Morning all,
Onside/Offside.
Me, well I hate arguing.
I’m off to get my breakfast,
Toasted Cheese 😁😁
Harris 1. Trump 0
A few still being conned by the ‘line’ ,it’s not decided when the ball gets there, it’s when the pass is struck, I’ve seen that picture, frozen when Callum hits the pass,Kuhn is 2 yards onside, blatant cheating.
Jobo
Like you, and many others, I can’t wait for the return of the Arsene Wenger”clear daylight” rule. I believe it’s currently being trialled somewhere.
When you see some of the farcical decisions, like the one currently under discussion, we’re having to tolerate it’s frustrating that the “clear daylight” rule was ever scrapped.
Like Mahe, I’m very disappointed – but not surprised in the slightest – that we’ve heard absolutely nothing from the Board. Par for the course!
Mahe – Made me think and then look back to many dramatic changes that I and many, many other lovers of football have happened, especially relating to Celtic FC and to Scottish football, I may have missed a few, some on purpose or perhaps because of my hole riddled auld brain cells.
1959-60 European Cup Final: The fifth final, Real Madrid V Eintracht Frankfurt 7-3, to Real, a record score and a record crowd, an estimated 70 million viewers. The beautiful game reached a pinnacle of excellence, football coaches Europe wide would look on in wonder and try to emulate the tactics and embrace this new kind of football.
1967: European Cup Final: Jock Steins team would play in his words “pure beautiful attacking football and European football would learn about his tactical nous, using talented powerful Celtic players who would excel and revel playing football in the way that it was meant to be played, aggressive attacking football that would be welcomed by the supporters across Europe.
Celtics Annus Mirabilis in the heat of Lisbon, the jewel in a season of complete dominance, winning every trophy available, setting records that still stand today.
1994: Fergus McCann tilted the balance of power in Scottish football that remains in the east end of Glasgow to this day.
1995: The Bosman Ruling, changed the dynamics of world football when he challenged the status quo and fought for footballers right to self determine their own futures. The Vultures began to circle, cash became King. In the 60s we ourselves have witnessed the big talent low wage scenario at Celtic Park, where Celtic players were paid a fraction of their true worth.
The Vultures – Agents – Club owners – The greedy, trough feeding, ego driven chancers that drove football into a casino game of chance, sucking the blood from the game.
After Jean Marc Bosman won his case, it wasn’t his fault what happened, he had achieved his aim to let the players take back control of their own careers. He was shunned, became depressed and became an alcoholic, a sad end for someone who did so much for every professional player.
1997/8: # love Wim The Tim: Stopped the Ten and gave us King Henrik. Watching the games at that time, you could feel the support fully united and 100% backing the team and the manager, Jock Brown GTF. The feeling of elation when on the final game was the best, better than George Best.
2003: Oh, were off to sunny Spain, Seville. Martin O’ Neill’s team including Henke – Sutton – Hartson
gave the support a glimpse of what could be achieved on a modest budget, modest for other clubs but huge for us, the only thing that spoilt it was for me, the support being left to pay the bill.
That’s what sickens me, when the biscuit tin is empty, the support pays, when its full, where’s the payback?
2012: YOUR NO RANGERS ANYMAIR. ICE CREAM AND JELLY BABIES. 😉 😉 😉
And so, I will leave it at that, basking in the after glow of their demise. If I missed out anyone then sorry, feel free to add your own thoughts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6Wu2lfj9Zg
Engels,another smart Bhoy
TavPen to Turkey? 🏃
Daizen Maeda has got a lot to answer for.
Saying that I don’t think any individual has inflicted more trauma on that entire basket case of a club than Brendan Rodgers has.
Haunt their dreams he must.
If they ever do recover,mid-table mediocrity is their future.
And if they don’t.. it’s liquidation.
HH.🍀
The murder of Pat Finucane,statement in Parliament 1.35pm,live on Parliament channel
Admittedly I did plump for Dundee to finish second in the league, before a ball was kicked.
Difficult task for them now considering we bought their best player.
I’m going to have to reconsider my initial prediction.
Sheep to fill the runners up spot.
Here’s the thing though – I forecast Dundee for third position in the league, with the Frankenstein club scrapping into fourth spot – if they manage to survive that is.
Turmoil they are in, complete and utter turmoil.
HH.🍀
Ranges Rabble podcast live now on YouTube.
Consternation. 🤣🤣
Public Inquiry into the murder of Pat Finucane
Leggy
September 11, 2024 10:10 am
Morning all,
Onside/Offside.
Me, well I hate arguing.
I’m off to get my breakfast,
Toasted Cheese 😁😁
—————————
See you LEGGY, you’d cause an argument in an empty hoose, so ye wid!🤣
A blatant, I say blatant, attempt to start anither wan.
Luis Palma plays entire game in Honduras 1-2 loss to Jamaica in CONCACAF Nations League. Should be fit if called upon versus Hertz.
AJ left out altogether by Canada in Mexico 0-0 tie. Smart decision.
Has the St mirren CEO knocked back the sevco job. Hmmmmm
Looks like he has.
Just looked on FF
🤣
Leftclicktic
September 11, 2024 2:36 pm
Has the St mirren CEO knocked back the sevco job. Hmmmmm
NO, according to the DR the interest has cooled! Now looking at the reedited piece now says he’s OUT of the race 🙃
Mahe
A fine lead article. Imagine if you will, that there were actually Celtic supporters on the PLC board. People who cared about the club as much as we do. Wouldn’t that be grand? Until such a time comes to pass, we are stuck with a bunch of incompetent chancers, who care about one thing, and one thing only. Money. Specifically the money flying into their own back pockets. While having their snouts in the trough is their main focus, they are unlikely to care about such trivial matters like offside goals which should have stood. They have after all, remained silent on much more serious matters. Celtic historians of the future, are unlikely to look kindly on their legacy. Particularly, our non-esteemed current chairman.
Craig76
I have just received:
The Bold Bhoys:Glory To Their Name
from the Celtic Star site. You may remember that the book was out of stock. Fortunately, there has been another print run of the book. £20 plus postage.
Bawheid
Another fine post. I particularly agree with your thoughts re Jock Brown. I well remember a home game v Dundee in November 1998. Lubo’s debut? Everyone in the ground was in jubilant mood, as Mr Brown had been given his jotters that very morning. Dr Jo’s Bhoys played their own part that day. 6-1 to the Celts.
Leftclicktic/Prestonpansbhoys
Whit a riddy. Poor Huns obviously can’t afford a proper CEO.
Hail Hail.
Mahe
As you know, I’m no fan of PL, but I dont think I would say he isn’t a fan, or doesnt care as much. I just think he is too conservative and has never had the right personality or the necessary skill set to take the club to the next level. Perhaps he might have developed as a businessman, and Celtic may have grown, had PL not had to report to DD. It is a bit strange though …. DD always seemed a bit of a chancer …. loans (cough cough) to politicians, and taking a flyer on London airport …. yet, with Celtic, it seemed to be safety first … hard to always understand the leadership, or lack thereof, at the top.
AFTERNOON ALL and JIM and MAGUA, what have these 4 teams got in common,,fc zurich, nante, vojvodina now where have I heard that name before😎😎 and dukla prague, cyber pint of buckfast for the right answer👍🍺
BTW I started watching celtic in 1964 ,and they played at parkhead not celtic park, we know the official name is celtic park, but nobody ever called it celtic park when I was a kid, you played rangers at parkhead or Ibrox ,not celtic park or Ibrox stadium,,another true story😎👍
Big Packy
Afternoon, Packy and Joan. Those names are familiar. Can’t think why. Vojvodina?Never heard of ’em. 😁
Hail Hail.
Big Packy
The Johnny Thomson song mentions Parkhead, Celtic Park and Paradise. Can’t think of any other song that does.
Hail Hail.
Hi Magua Joan says Hi 👍 think it’s you younger Tim’s that it Celtic park 😎😎
Call it
Big Packy
Hiya, Joan.
Hail Hail.
MAGUA did I ever tell you the rainjurs story, well as a kid at our lady and st josephs boys guild team I scored a barrow load of goals while playing left back, that got me a trial for kirkintilloch rob roy ,played a few games for them then this elderly chap introduced himself to me, my name’s tam brown im a scout for rainjurs, would you like to come for a trial on sunday, no problem tam i said, but what time, I never miss 11-o clock mass, never seen anybody run from that dressing room as fast in my life,😎😎
Big Packy
😂
https://x.com/_pen67/status/1833897400773366271?s=48
He just made himself look big……VAR in depth analysis..
Magua
September 11, 2024 3:23 pm
Mahe
A fine lead article. Imagine if you will, that there were actually Celtic supporters on the PLC board. People who cared about the club as much as we do. Wouldn’t that be grand? Until such a time comes to pass, we are stuck with a bunch of incompetent chancers, who care about one thing, and one thing only. Money. Specifically the money flying into their own back pockets. While having their snouts in the trough is their main focus, they are unlikely to care about such trivial matters like offside goals which should have stood. They have after all, remained silent on much more serious matters. Celtic historians of the future, are unlikely to look kindly on their legacy. Particularly, our non-esteemed current chairman.
============
David Low was asked if he would like to be a member of the Celtic Board and he said no way for the simple reason Celtic as a PLC are bound by Company Law which is there to protect shareholders in a company.
If by supporter you mean someone from the support who had the backing of the support to represent them all, he or she would soon become frustrated by the ties that bind.
Those ties extend to football law from FIFA down through UEFA to SFA that have to be negotiated as in understood by that supporter when voting as a Board member for a particular course of action.
The best idea I’ve seen for supporter involvement came from the Tracey Crouch Review of FA Governance in England, working its way now to the statute books.
A model of such a Shadow Board should emerge and if supporters put enough pressure on the Scottish Government via the SFSA, who are on that case, AND it becomes the law of the land then all clubs and Celtic would have to engage.
Celtic are aware of the Tracey Crouch conceived legislation in England and like the Scottish Government are waiting to see how it unfolds.
The CST picked up on The Shadow Board idea and I saw a paper on it that seems to have been withdrawn, but anyone who is a CST member can ask them what their position is on a Shadow Board.
Such a development is core to the CST raison d’etre and they will need to work on widening their representation status beyond shareholders or a new group representing ST Holders needs to be formed.
James Forrest wrote a thoughtful blog on the constitution of a Shadow Board for anyone who cares to search.
Excellent Article Mahe..
Regarding Kuhn/Kyogo offside …Our leaders should be asking, nay Demanding an answer to this. Who actually ultimately makes decisions in Football matches?
VAR we are told is there to assist and advise on incidents that are missed and ask them to review them. At no time did Beaton Review that Offside, HE did not go to the monitor…Therefore to disallow the he passed on his responsibility to Dallas who made the decision to disallow the goal.
There is no way either or any camera angle could.DEFINATIVLY prove a mistake had been made by either the linesman or the Referee.
Celtic must demand answers and have the incompetents removed
I see today Wee wullie has stated Kyogo should have had a Penalty against Killiein our first game.. but not to worry the Ref and Var officials have been COAHED 🥳😌
BADABING,BHOYFROMSKY
Keeper doesn’t touch the ball,cleans out striker in clear goalscoring opportunity. Penalty all day long.
And by the way,the ref and VAR are feeding each other possible get-out clauses. Is that typical behaviour in such a situation?
Guys
Jumping in to say that Willie Collum is going to be on the RC phone in after the news!
Earlier I promised that I would try to benchmark Celtic against other teams in Europe. The objective being to see if we under-perform in that arena. Me and my mouth!
Let me start by saying how cruelly I have treated myself. It is difficult to dig out data on football clubs unless you have access to multiple sources of data, much of which is fee for service. Since retirement, I no longer am rich in sources and money, hence the results are less than I had hoped. Anywhere here goes. I shall need to drip feed the results to you so as not to overwhelm you with data. It may take several posts to do it so if we are not into this kind of thing, avoid me.
Firstly, there are many criteria that could be used to select benchmarks for Celtic in Europe. I took the easy way out and selected our CL group consisting of Slovan, Zagreb, YB, Atalanta, Brugge, A. Villa, and the two Germans: Leipzig and Dortmund.
I attempted to group these according to their annual revenues. Broadly, we get five “groups” A group being defined as a collection of clubs having roughly similar annual revenues. Since graphics are a bit of a luxury on this format, I have listed the groups below in low tech(one of my specialties), starting with lowest revenue first. I shall explain the numbers in the table later, they are not actual revenues.
Group 1 consists of two teams, Slovan and Zagreb that have very low revenues(relatively). Zagreb have about one third Celtic’s turnover. Slovan’s data is difficult to retrieve. One source said 3 million US$ but, since the club is privately owned, that is unlikely, but since expenditures are modest as is their ground, I predict their revenue will be on the low side. Group 2 contained just one club, Young Boys …serial league winners in Switzerland. YB had approximately twice the likely average revenue of Group 1. Next we have the group of interest, containing three teams that had roughly similar revenue: Celtic, Brugge and Atalanta. Atalanta’s revenue and status within Europe surged because of their Europa League win.
Group 4 is a lonely one consisting of Aston Villa who had significantly higher revenue than the Celtic group, but appreciably less than the two German giants: Leipzig and Dortmund., that make up Group 5.
I attached each team’s European ranking(UEFA) to the table, so Celtic are ranked 70th. Interestingly, Vojvodina are ranked….173 by UEFA !!!
Revenue Groups
Group 1: Slovan-59; Zagreb-39
Group 2: YB- 56:
Group 3: Celtic- 70: Brugge- 25; Atalanta – 20
Group 4: AV – 81;
Group 5: Leipzig -13; Dortmund- 8
What jumps out is that Celtic have seriously under-performed in Europe. Even Group 1 teams are ranked higher in Europe than Celtic . Zagreb have punched well above their weight. In fact, every team with the exception of Villa have performed better than Celtic. It can be argued that Villa’s ranking is misleading since they have not had much recent experience of Europe and they now have a manger who knows how to win the Europa League.
Yes, we all knew that Celtic had under-performed on the big stage, but I, for one, did not realise the gap that exists with comparable resourced teams.
These CL games will be tough…all of them.
Just like at the Saturday matinee, you will have to wait for the next episode…stamp your feet if you like.
Rebus
BP 3.39
THE ROAD TO LISBON.
Having not seen (or heard) much of Michael Nicholson, I was surprised just how often he appeared in this video. Worth a watch if you haven’t seen it.
He actually comes across very well.
Auldheid
Thanks for the reply. I’ll do a bit of digging on that JF article. 👍
Hail Hail.
REbus
As always, a thoughtful post. I look forward to reading further installments.
REBUS67
A lot of work there already,for which my thanks. Having the stats laid out so starkly explains why most Celtic fans are so pissed off at our board’s long-held strategy of sabotaging our European efforts. Sell all the best players and replace them with shite,indeed.
Even the most recent window saw us only getting serious four weeks after our opening match of the season,and even then we made a profit. This time we still sold our best player,but we can be more than hopeful that we didn’t simply replace them with shite.
Fingers crossed.
Meanwhile,the great panjandrum who oversaw a twenty year decline in our European (and domestic) standing is still convinced that he deserves a statue outside the ground,and has his lackeys bumming up his achievements. And I thought asset-stripping (and boasting about it) was out of vogue these days.
Rebus 67
Me and my mouth!
===========
I smiled at that Rebus but glad you made the effort.
I was using the same group for benchmark purposes in terms of the teams we should be competitive against based on there Pot positions before the draw as opposed to where UEFA co coefficient placed them.
That comparison suggests Celtic were not getting bang per buck using turnover as a base point, but what is not known is how much the other clubs spent on players and what Celtic spent on players and where did the rest go in all cases?
I’m not expecting you to look over a series of past Celtic accounts as it was difficult in the past to pick out player wage costs from the total employee wage bill. FSR should produce a greater degree of transparency on football earnings that limit what can be spent on players.
Someone with forensic accounting ability might be able to work out how much of past turnover ended in the pockets of The Board and how the wage committee justified the remuneration given. Until then the perception is that The Board took/take out of Celtic more than they put in.
There maybe rules under Company Law to protect shareholders that have been observed by Celtic but I doubt that would change the perception they are paying themselves too much.
Aside from where did the money go I think the major reason for underperforming in Europe is that all that mattered at the end of the day was winning the title knowing that was enough to keep supporters happy.
Another factor was budgeting on EL income being dependable and CL income being less dependable so excluding it.
As long as our main rivals budgeting was more risky they got the standard of player that got them to a UEFA final but sooner or later, as in now, they are meeting the cost of that risk.
Waiting to see if CL qualification had been secured before signing players is a consequence of the budget thinking and that plus actual failure to qualify meant having to sell our best player which produced churn that meant entering competitions with a less settled team.
Another factor is when the various seasons started in Europe with some clubs in qualifying rounds much fitter than Celtic were. Thus “lesser” teams eliminated us. Bloody Scandies.
I think that Celtic have already dealt with the financial costs of not qualifying for CL using some of last seasons profit as contingency and of course CL income is secured this season, so can afford to go up a market when looking for players and get rid of those bought in the lower market when the consequences of not qualifying for the CL held more prominence in budgeting decisions.
In short budgeting means money is at the centre of the thinking that causes the ripples your research as uncovered and there is, as you have said more to come , and I hope folk engage with what emerges.
BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
September 11, 2024 6:41 pm
REBUS67
This time we still sold our best player, but we can be more than hopeful that we didn’t simply replace them with shite.
====================
The point is we did not have to sell MoR, it was simply the right time for him and Celtic to let him go. I saw nowhere that he was forced out against his will.
So far he has not been missed domestically and I don’t recall him having the same outstanding impact in Europe last season.
Auldbhoy67 cyber pint on its way 👍
SFA VAR Review.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SnZ2a7rmglE&feature=youtu.be
AULDHEID
“The point is we did not have to sell MoR, it was simply the right time for him and Celtic to let him go. I saw nowhere that he was forced out against his will.
So far he has not been missed domestically and I don’t recall him having the same outstanding impact in Europe last season.”
******
Your memory might be playing you false here. We scored a grand total of five goals in six games-we lost more goals in one game v Atletico-and Matt got the assist for three of them.
Since none of our players can be said to have had an “outstanding impact in Europe last season”,I reckon Matt came closest.