Mama Mia
I love Italy as a country, been there several times and touch wood shall return, and would happily dine out there for the rest of my days.
Nearly everyday I should say, because tonight the Itailians are planning Celtic for dinner.
We all like to believe that once that whistle blows anything can happen, and once in a while that actually happens, but one of footballs realities is that preparation usually succeeds. Atalanta have well prepared for this moment, and I’ve gotta tip my hat to their strategists. From nobody really to European finalists and occasional pace setters in SeriaA within the space of a decade. Two reserve teams out playing, and most admirable of all they didn’t try to ‘out-Italian’ their domestic game, they adopted an attacking approach to the beautiful game which has obviously served them well. For years they’ve honed their game and specific areas, fine tuned to the point that a lesser opponent should be easily dispatched, their sights look upwards not downwards.
And they are at home.
The general consensus was targeting 9/10 points and grabbing a play-off spot would be not only the target but an excellent achievement. Losing games like tonight formed that consensus. Defeat should be no surprise, but clearly it’s the manner of defeat that’s debatable.
I note the calls for something different, but I’m sorry I must disagree. More importantly Brendan does also. These words might come back to haunt me but there’s a chance the group actually took lessons away from the Dortmund drubbing. If we stop conceding goals in clusters that would help. Don’t commit too many forward and constantly check both your positioning and your direct opponents. Get tighter when called for, sit deeper, but not too deep, when danger lurks.
And TAKE YOUR CHANCES WHEN THEY COME! If we are playing 4-3-3 full time then so be it, it’s worked so far Dortmund aside, I’m for letting everybody getting used to their roles and the level that is needed to step up, and keeping those who can.
On that, we have been poor recently, and it just feels like terrible timing. Kyogo seemed to have developed a good grasp of Brodge-ball late last season. It pains me to say (given when he’s on song he’s eye-candy) that he isn’t firing on all cylinders, but he does have a real desire to score in the CL plus he did net at the weekend.
Oh, and Bernardo’s usually good in Europe.
That’s about all the hope I can muster up, because the rest are just too erratic. I’ve seen Scales and Trusty beaten several times, GT will drift too high and get caught out, Maeda is either dynamite or anonymous ditto Kuhn, Engels remains an enigma (and I fear what another absolute tanking would do to his commitment), and whilst I believe AJ is certainly a step in the right direction at right back I cannot count on him to be the difference maker.
Which leaves Callum who is an excellent footballer but often gets lost in the heat of battle, ditto Reo.
Maybe Big Cam could start/return, but as good as he is, that won’t cut the mustard at this level.
It’s actually the perfect time to play Celtic, Brendan’s only two windows in and are not sparkling as a team recently.
I’m sorry to be the harbinger of doom but I just not cannot fill ‘you’ full of hope when there’s little.
Statistically Celtic will pull off a decent result away in Europe at some stage of our remaining days, but tonight in Italy?
Mama Mia makes a damn fine coffee if anyone needs to wake up.
By Mahe sentinelcelts@gmail.com
As you will all know,the site finally nominated a charity to be the recipient of the generosity and largesse of yourselves,and I think you all deserve huge applause for raising just short of £2k.
⭐️👏☘️👍🍾
That period has passed,and a new charity has been chosen to take us through to the end of the year. A landslide vote in favour of
Lanarkshire Cancer Care Trust.
Once again,CHALMERSBHOY has done the spadework via JustGiving.
Here is the link for the Lanarkshire Cancer Care Trust,our new charity which we will support.
https://www.justgiving.com/page/sentinel-celts-1722588284471?utm_medium=fundraising&utm_content=page%2Fsentinel-celts-1722588284471&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=pfp-share
This drive has already raised well over £1000,so please join in. The more,the merrier.
Default payment method seems to be ApplePay,which won’t suit everyone. There is an option on the page to change that to your preferred means.
POTY competition sencelpoty@gmail.com
In 2 years, Unai Emery has taken Villa from a relegation battle to the top of the CL table. Best coach around? Has to be in the discussion
Good morning, friends and a Big Happy European Matchday to all who post or lurk on this fine site.
It paints me to say it but if I’m honest I’d take a 3 goal defeat right now. If only Atalanta would feel the same.
Nevertheless, I’ll watch every minute and try to somehow enjoy the occasion!
Remember, it’s one of the early kick off’s, meaning your votes can start flying in from around 7.50pm 😉
If BR persists with his naive tactical approach will we celebrate a 4/5-1 loss as proof of progress?
I’m expecting to see Kyogo and Kühn marked out the game and isolated, our midfield three chasing shadows in the large open spaces between their positioning, and Daizen being the occasional out ball when he’s not in our half covering whoever is left back.
Liam, usual dogged back to wall performance, or an inspired Kasper as our MoM.
Lucky white heather.
It shouldn’t be like this, again, but it is.
They are better than us but Inter were better than us.
When all else fails, fight.
Do not give up.
HERE WE GO AGAIN……
As Steve suggests sometimes when you least expect it.
I still remember one of his first teams fantastic display against Man. City.
FIGHT.
Mahe, I share your love of all things Italian, including their football, still reckon that the purest striker of the ball that I ever witnessed was Di Canio, when he took a corner kick, he struck the ball with a sweet sound, just like a golfer hitting the sweet spot of the golf ball.
They play in the same colours as Inter, is it an omen?
Forza Celtic – Pace – Power – Precision….
Well we are still in top 24 and several of those below us have already played their 3rd game. We weren’t counting on this game so defeat is acceptable. A drubbing isn’t. Would be good to put in a heroic performance and just be beaten by better team. The bundesliga joint leaders are up next. Goal difference and confidence will be crucial by the time we start our run against Bruges young boys and Zagreb.
Where we end up after today’s games doesn’t really matter unless we get a severe battering, a goal difference mauling and confidence nosedives.
Our ten/twelve point target always included games versus Brugge, Young boys and Zagreb. As long as those three keep losing then that should be to our advantage.
The fact that every game nets €2.1m for the winners is incentive enough for teams to compete.
Additionally, teams will be paid a new league ranking bonus based on their final ranking in the league phase. The league ranking bonus is divided into 666 equal shares initially valued at €275,000, with the team finishing 36th taking home that solitary share.
Finishing 24th is worth another c€3.5m
Money talks — where are the KPI’s when you need them?
Difference between 20th / 12 points vs 30th / 6 points = EUR 7mill.
Plus all that lovely CL / Euro Super League credibility.
Extra 5% in this years revenue — hopefully the execs are fully engaged?
DD might even get to hear about it on a golf course far far away.
Money talks — not sure our exec group are listening.
Sacking offence to me.
Mm
It’s actually nearer €8.5m- €1m is added as a progression award for making the knockout phase.
It’s an interesting phenomena – rewarding success!
Maybe our Board have commissioned a cost benefit analysis.
When was the last time Scottish clubs were able to regularly compete in the European cup?
We are competing against teams who think nothing of paying 50-60m and up for players.
I will view any kind of progress as a major achievement.
Having said that ..
I’m always confident in our ability to upset the odds.
We know Italy isn’t exactly a happy hunting ground for us, even less so when trying to do it with a brand new defence, but I’m confident we will make chances and are good at taking them when we do
You would imagine we will need to score more than 1 to get any points on the board.
Feck it, why not!
KTF.
We have a bigger T/O than Atalanta — ongoing business basis.
We would appear to have a bigger wage bill than Atalanta.
We pay more to our execs than Atalanta do.
We are the big club in this game.
Any other viewpoint is just the Scottish / SPFL cringe.
Board groupie gas lighting.
The reason that we are going into another away CL game with fear.
Is that our recruitment in the summer wasn’t good enough.
Midfield is very weak and so easy to play through.
Idah should be first choice by now, but still looks unfit.
And left back situation after 5 years trying to replace KT has now became a joke.
Atalanta REGULARLY pay 20-30m for players.
They REGULARLY sell players for tens of millions – their last big sale to Man u was 75m!
I’d be even more confident if our team tonight was filled with 30m players ..
Our team is filled with players from Kilmarnock, Dundee and Shamrock Rovers.
Just the reality of things right now.
Plus, anything Huns say about us is just laughable 😉
Madmitch
October 23, 2024 10:40 am
Can you set out the figures that support your opinion?
MM
I dunno why you keep repeating this nonsense about us having a bigger turnover than Atalanta. We clearly don’t,and if you spent as much time checking your facts as you expect us to spend deciphering even one of your cryptic posts,you would know this.
https://www.footballfinance.de/en/bergamo
Revenues and annual results Atalanta Bergamo in the financial years 2017 to 2022:
Fiscal year 2022: revenue 120.31 million euros, annual result 11.37 million euros
Fiscal year 2021: revenue 242.68 million euros, annual result 35.14 million euros
Fiscal year 2020: revenue 242.00 million euros, annual result 51.73 million euros
Fiscal year 2019: revenue 188.62 million euros, annual result 26.50 million euros
Fiscal year 2018: revenue 155.74 million euros, annual result 23.96 million euros
Fiscal year 2017: revenue 147.70 million euros, annual result 26.68 million euros
Big Audio Dynamite
October 23, 2024 11:12 am
Atalanta REGULARLY pay 20-30m for players.
They REGULARLY sell players for tens of millions – their last big sale to Man u was 75m!
I’d be even more confident if our team tonight was filled with 30m players ..
Our team is filled with players from Kilmarnock, Dundee and Shamrock Rovers.
Just the reality of things right now.
Plus, anything Huns say about us is just laughable 😉
===
Players who can hold down a place in a Italian team in Serie A come in at a price outside Celtic’s income to buy.
As a result of holding their own in Serie A they can compete in UEFA competitions which raises their sell on value by more than enough to pay for the initial outlay.
Picking figures out of the air under confirmation bias does not tell the whole story.
Swiss Rambler covers the Atalanta narrative based on previous seasons accounts.
https://swissramble.substack.com/p/atalanta-finances-202223
Mike in Toronto
October 23, 2024 1:40 am
In 2 years, Unai Emery has taken Villa from a relegation battle to the top of the CL table. Best coach around? Has to be in the discussion
For sure MiT.Villa were championship bound under g.v.stee.He corrected that and finished in a CL spot.
He has experience and pedigree👇
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/unai-emery/erfolge/trainer/5075
At Villa he will have 140,000,000+ annually
and has 2 £Billionaire backers,1american,1Egyptian if funds are sought,he has an astute eye on South American and African market.
Good luck to him
Auldheid,
Atlanta’s average weekly salary is €40k.
Our resident troll doesn’t care about being right or wrong, he just needs your attention to try and further his pathetic wee agenda.
Why do you think he refuses to stop the constant abbreviations – even after being asked repeatedly for years – it gets him attention.
Guy is a sad case.
BMCUW @ Turnover confusion
2023 numbers — ongoing business basis / repeat ongoing business basis.
Their T/O was EUR 120mill.
Our T/O was £120mill.
Ours is bigger.
Gross T/O including all transfer revenues — which you seem to be quoting — seem to show them having higher values because they sell more players for more money and then buy more players for bigger fees than us.
We are a selling club.
They are a trading club.
Much greater churn in their squad.
They sell more so they buy more.
However as an underlying business we would appear to be bigger than them.
Starting with a 60K stadium against a 25K stadium.
Wages — they seemingly have the 8th highest wage bill in Serie A.
Interweb chatter / podcast facts — we have a higher wage bill based on most recent data.
Wages update — pretty close call / not much in it.
Clyde / Bully Wee numbers — aka the price of fish.
Singing Harry Harry Harry Haddock.
One for Donny to cover.
Atalanta — how much money do they have in the bank?
One for later.
BAD
Sad is a kind description.
You’re about as funny as gonorrhea 😂
Auldheid,
This is apparently an adult.
Spends his every waking hour trying to be snide to a bunch of strangers on a wee football site.
I actually feel a bit sorry for him.
Apparently Atalanta have at least one player who’s on over €100k pw
Atlanta 2023/24 as in EuL winning side — built of their 2022/23 revenue figure of EUR 120mill.
They sell big so they have to buy big plus they are putting EUR 100mill into their stadium.
So may lessons to learn.
The troll got his wee bit of attention again…
Moving on!
MM 1222
Yet you justify your garbage that we have a bigger turnover than Atalanta by comparing their record recent low income in 2022 to our record income in 2024,extrapolating your entire argument on the dodgiest of selective stats-and that’s ok?
The one simple reason for that year’s one-off low turnover was their failure to qualify for Europe. Which,again,would be obvious even to you had you bothered to check.
Keep it civil please gentlemen, keep it civil. 🙏
🎶Oh, Mary, this London’s a wonderful sight,
With people here working by day and by night.
Sure, they don’t sow potatoes, nor barley, nor wheat,
But there’s gangs of them digging for gold in the street.
At least when I asked them that’s what I was told,
So I just took a hand at this digging for gold,
But for all that I found there I might as well be
Where the Mountains of Mourne sweep down to the sea..🎶
This must be the most deranged reason for the Huns going bust yet, this bloke needs help
https://x.com/CelticEnded2iar/status/1848987918704038319
Atlanta 2023/24 as in EuL winning side — built of their 2022/23 revenue figure of EUR 120mill.
They sell big so they have to buy big plus they are putting EUR 100mill into their stadium.
So may lessons to learn.
===
Aye like Celtic move into the Italian league and like Atlanta have to buy big to stay in it but can sell big because they have players of proven ability that other bigger clubs throughout Europe are prepared to pay premium prices for.
Comparisons that stand scrutiny need to take account of context that clubs operate in.
Otherwise it’s just mischief making a la Skunk Annansi.
16 ROADS
BMCUWP – Feel homesick listening to that song, even though I’m sitting in my own house! 😂👍
Classic.
HH. ☘️
BMCUW
Why are you so desperate to big up Atalanta?
Their ongoing business T/O was even less in 2022.
So no garbage just a few facts that for some reason you cannot engage with.
Another set of numbers …
Atalanta — EUR 100mill in debt in 2022/23.
Us — £70mill in the bank / approx / around about now.
No wonder PL was able to deliver financial nonsense for nearly 20 years.
Excuse mongery infects far too many not just the happy clappers / board groupies.
Looking under every stone for reasons why we fail on the park.
They then become our comfort blanket.
5 years ago any criticism of the youth set up was howled down because we have had a 13year old playing in the U20’s in living memory — now the common consensus that the M/well old pals act / job for life vibe has devastated our coaching abilities.
Change can be so difficult.
Atalanta away after 3 shambolic transfer windows — very tough gig.
DM in full “the persecution of Tavpen” mode — we might just have a chance.
Afternoon all,
Some feisty comments today 👍
Back to the football tonight:
Who would take a 2-0 defeat tonight.
I know it’s a crappy question, but sadly, I would .
BoooooooooCSC 🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀
CRAIG76
Loony tunes,mate. They lose all reason when they aren’t winning. Makes you wonder how they survived from 65-87.
MM
Not bigging up Atalanta,as you put it,at all. Simply pointing you in the direction of the figures which disprove your entire argument that we have a bigger t/o than them. Those six seasons referenced add up to €1,077m. I doubt we have turned over that amount in the last twelve years,twice as long.
Thing are getting toxic over Ibrox way, again.
The Belgian Beale with be gone by Christmas,at the latest.
Derek McInnes seems to be their preferred candidate of choice.
Mental.🤯
Player Trading model — thick end of the Civil Service bullet points.
Player trading — done the right way.
You sell a player for £30mill — you buy 2 players for £30mill / best value possible / growth potential who will develop their talent with players around him who will support / educate / enhance their style of play.
You do not sell a player for £30mill — then buy a player for £11mill to replace him and then put him into a MF with known structural weaknesses / a lack of leadership and big game nous / no tackling ability and expect things to go well in the CL.
BMCUW @ more T/O confusion
The T/O figures you highlight — are they ongoing business as in no player sales involved?
Or are the gross / total business that include the revenues from player sales?
I am pushing the ongoing business model as in no player sales.
You would appear to be pushing the kitchen sink / gross / total business number.
My thoughts are that ongoing business is the better way to understand the size of a club.
I came across some numbers and put them out there.
No point scoring / no agenda — just some real data points to work with.
The howls suggest that many can’t deal with the new and the real.
Watched the Dortmund Real game last night. What a great game. Fun to watch
Given their modest stadium and fan base, it’s no surprise that only about 10% of Atlanta’s annual revenue comes from their supporters. The rest comes from TV, sponsorship, and, most crucially, player trading. It also helps that they are Italian. Competing with Inter, Milan, Juventus, Lazio, and Roma, requires players of a very high calibre.
Celtic’s biggest asset is, and always will be, the support. We still contribute 60%-70% of the club’s revenue. Our general direction is positive, but the gap in quality between our guys and the wider footballing world is growing at worryingly fast rate. How do we turn a Celtic daft 15 year old from Carfin into the next Vini Jr ? We pay our suits hansomely to solve that one. And solve it they must.
Just avoid a tanking tonight, Celtic.
Apparently it’s “lashing rain in Bergamo airport.”
Maybe that’ll work in our favour, if it persists?
It’s a positive that Mitch is willing to engage with the numbers.
There might be a conversation to be had about costs, for another day…
For the record from “Football Finance” (there is a cautionary tale here about a failure to secure CL entry).
“Atalanta Bergamo’s revenues and annual results have shown a positive development in recent years. Revenue more than doubled from 2017 to 2021, from EUR147.70 million to EUR242.68 million in 2021.
However, in fiscal year 2022, revenue halved and the annual result was the worst in the 2017 period until 2022. The reason given is missing the Champions League in the 2021/22 season, which was previously achieved three times in a row.
(Note how it’s stated ‘the reason given’… Something to check).
(Domestic broadcasting revenue is much better in Italy too, €94m in total to Atalanta over the last five years.)
Revenues and annual results Atalanta Bergamo in the financial years 2017 to 2022:
Fiscal year 2022: revenue 120.31 million euros, annual result 11.37 million euros
Fiscal year 2021: revenue 242.68 million euros, annual result 35.14 million euros
Fiscal year 2020: revenue 242.00 million euros, annual result 51.73 million euros
Fiscal year 2019: revenue 188.62 million euros, annual result 26.50 million euros
Fiscal year 2018: revenue 155.74 million euros, annual result 23.96 million euros
Fiscal year 2017: revenue 147.70 million euros, annual result 26.68 million euros.
We’ll make a Capologist out of young Mitchell yet.
Delighted that folk are looking at the numbers.
Back to work.
Leggy at 1.25 – I went one better a 8.22am! I’d take a 3 goal defeat but preferably 1-4 or 2-5 just to give us some fleeting moments of hope!
But come kick off time I’ll be expecting us to draw. At least!
Game last night — did BD clog any of their opponents?
Seemed to be their plan against us — free hit x4 unfortunately.
Getting away from finances to on the park stuff how many people think Dortmund got their tactics wrong last night after leading 2-0 in Madrid. How many think Ancellotti went out through his highly paid superstars at half time to sort it out and how many think Madrid once more are just too good.
Lots of comments about our tactics against Dortmund so is that to say we are fortunate not to have drawn Madrid again. I would say for sure we are but do not expect us to come away with any kind of result tonight. Our defence is once again shaky and having watched Trusty in his right sided position I cant be confident at all.
A 3-0 defeat for me would be as good as it gets given our away record in UCL over recent seasons. Sad to admit but true all the same.
https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2024/10/23/wolfe-tones-dragging-the-bollocks-out-of-farewell-tour/