Do We Never Learn?

Morning,all.

The good news from Wednesday was obviously that we qualified for the next stage of the tournament. The better news may be that we saw a resurgence in form of both Idah and Hatate, two players who had been having an underwhelming season so far. The bad news was that the mechanics of the play-off system means that we will play either Real Madrid or Bayern Munich-two sides who would have expected to be finishing in the top eight of the table before a ball was kicked, thus avoiding the next stage completely. 

The even worse news is that we have probably triggered the outstanding suspended sentence on away fans attending. Which, in turn, means that further offences will be punished on a sliding scale, and could even lead to partial or full closure of Celtic Park for a future European match or matches. 

It seems we never learn, doesn’t it? UEFA have made clear their opposition to flares and smoke bombs over the years, yet elements of our support seem to think that rules don’t apply to them, or that rules are there for breaking. Here’s the thing though-if you disagree with the rules, your only course of action is to get them changed. Flouting those rules, especially in the face of an ultimate authority which is absolutely determined to enforce them, only leads to tears. This is a lesson with countless precedents through the ages, with countless martyrs to show for it. Sometimes they had right on their side, other times they were simply rebels without a clue. 

Pyrotechnics of any sort are illegal when used in crowd situations like inside a football ground. This isn’t just a football regulation, something dreamed up by a faceless killjoy bureaucrat somewhere; it is the law of the land, and applies in many other jurisdictions other than in Scotland. Regardless, when we play in UEFA competitions, we do so under their jurisdiction and under their rules. 

I’m not going to point blame at any particular fan grouping for this, not even to suggest that the pyro in question was likely to be the work of the same groups who practice their “art” so regularly, and with impunity, in Scotland. That would be unfair. It is not though unfair to point out that the guilty parties over the years have cost the club and the fans a well-earned and hard-earned spotless reputation in the game by their antics, as well as a considerable sum of money. Now, it looks likely that they will have cost our travelling support the opportunity to see our favourites in one or other of the game’s great cathedrals. And they probably won’t even GAF either. Next chance they get, out the pyro will come. As though nothing ever happened, as though nothing they ever do has consequences. 

So how do we deal with this going forward? One answer is our traditional method of self-policing, but that probably isn’t likely in these days of coked-up mindless thuggery and worse. Besides, while a boot in the baws would probably work just as well as it ever has, you can bet your bottom dollar that the police, stewards and CCTV operators would finally do their bloody job when it came to that particular offence. But doing nothing and carrying on as before is obviously not an option. 

For years now, large sections of our support have complained that it is well-nigh impossible to get tickets for away games in Scotland, never mind in Europe. That they are always allocated to the same people, time after time. This is because the club allocates these tickets to those with a track record of attendance at away matches. Which, of course, means that if you cannot get an away ticket, you cannot get an away ticket in the future either. 

Yes, it is a reward for loyalty. But it is unfair on everyone else. Certainly it is easier for the club to allocate a ticket to someone who is almost certain to accept it, than to allocate them in a lucky dip only to have the lucky winner decline the opportunity. But the fact remains that it is not fair, and it has caused resentment now for many years. 

Equally, if the club keep racking up fines because of misbehaviour by away fans, is it even sensible to continue to allocate tickets to the same faces every time? Is this an area that the club should be looking at? Obviously we can’t ban every fan allocated a ticket for the Villa game, as that would be stupid. But the club must have a good idea who is most likely to cause this type of problem at games, and they should be proactive in dealing with it. Whether that means sending in our own employees with these groups as a means of keeping an eye on them-any volunteers for that thankless task?-or simply denying them the tickets because it is the club’s right to do so and they don’t need to give a reason, I don’t know. 

I don’t know the answers. But I’m not paid to know them, nor to provide them. But I do know that the club has tolerated this for far too long, and it has to stop. The good name of the club has been damaged time and again. We have been hit in the pocket repeatedly. Now, the rest of the fanbase will have to suffer too.

In addition to which, our team is going to one of the most famous venues in the sport, in any sport. We face an uphill task, let there be no doubt about that. And thanks to the actions of a small bunch of selfish attention-seekers, we will have to do so without any support whatsoever. 

Thanks a f….g bunch. 

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Above article by BMCUWP

201 Comments
Big Audio Dynamite
January 31, 2025 12:12 pm

Pitymevin,

If the window ends with a whimper for us you’ll be absolutely spot on.

If the board’s ambitions matched yours and mine we’d be treating this tournament as if we had a chance of winning it, no matter how long the odds!

If it’s just about the money for our board right now, our ambitions ended when we qualified for this round.

Let’s see what the next few days holds 👍

HH

Big Audio Dynamite
January 31, 2025 12:14 pm

Lennon Miller has a fractured ankle right now

St tams
January 31, 2025 12:19 pm

10/11 days until our next CL game and we have 2l1 centre forward and still GT at left back.
I suppose we’re a couple of million up though, so that’s a positive 😒

JimDom
January 31, 2025 12:19 pm

Do We Never Learn ?

Not really, no.

What we do learn is that history just repeats itself, from the bottle thrown from the Jungle, versus Rapid Vienna in 1984, to flares & pyro forty years later. It only takes one person in a crowd of 50,000 to inflict grief on both the club and the vast majority of the well behaved supporters.

What measures can Celtic reasonably take to stop it happening ? We are all responsible for our own actions. Some people just won’t take a telling, unfortunately.

Only three and a half days left to get some new talent in the building. The suits need to remember it is their job to facilitate the best possible team on the park that the club can afford. Celtic can well afford better than we currently have.

Have they decided that the cash buffer will not fall below £70 million under any circumstances ?There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Big Audio Dynamite
January 31, 2025 12:20 pm

Big Cameron back in training

Sol Kitts
January 31, 2025 12:22 pm

How do you smuggle a flare into a football ground? Surely it has to be pretty obvious? Do the home club not bear some responsibility for not having adequate security?
I saw a notice that they were not allowing flags into the ground so perhaps that was their entire focus? “I can’t see the box of fireworks under your arm because I’m looking for flags.”
This is not to excuse the idiot who threw the flare, but it just can’t be overly difficult to find them on the way in and alert plod to take appropriate action. As Óglach rightly said, there are numerous security techniques and technologies available.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
January 31, 2025 12:26 pm

OGLACH

Miller had his ankle broken last time he played the huns.

McCaff
January 31, 2025 12:27 pm

HeHeHe…some of you might want to have a wee gander at this article, and reflect! 😂😂😂
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/jan/31/deep-down-all-englishmen-are-policemen-spanish-anthology-recounts-life-in-edwardian-london

Big Audio Dynamite
January 31, 2025 12:37 pm

Would love to have seen what happened if Reo had made it 3-3 around 75mins.

Not sure our second half display would have warranted getting anything from the game …

But that’s football.

St tams
January 31, 2025 12:41 pm

As far as I’m aware, Lennon Miller has a broken bone in his foot and not a broken ankle

Big Audio Dynamite
January 31, 2025 12:51 pm

St Tams,

Kettlewell described it as a hairline fracture of the ankle

Big Audio Dynamite
January 31, 2025 1:00 pm

Are we really going to recoup about €10m for Bernabei and Palma??

+ £10m for Kyogo
+ Nearly £35m so far in the champions league.

Surely we still have irons in the fire? Even though the hour is getting late as per!

Prestonpans bhoys
January 31, 2025 1:08 pm

Glad we got Bayern rather than Madrid, at least they will fill the away end unlike Madrid the last time.

Óglach
January 31, 2025 1:10 pm

Not having a ‘scobie’ as to where you would buy a flare and thinking that it would be from a ships chandler as i have only used them in a maritime training scenario, imagine my surprise when i googled hand held flare and was presented numerous links to major retailers such as Amazon where they can be easily purchased being advertised as for use in party and birthday celebrations as well as other events. No restrictions apart from having to be over 18 to buy them. As with other pyrotechnics, fire works, they are far too easily acquired imho.

Óglach
January 31, 2025 1:26 pm

Celtic CL earnings to date (alleged)

League phase participation – €18.62m (€17.87m down-payment and €750k balance).
Win bonuses (Slovan Bratislava, RB Leipzig & Young Boys) – €2.1m x 3 = €6.3m
Draw bonuses (Atalanta, Club Brugge & GNK Dinamo) – €700k x 3 = €2.1m
Qualification to Champions League knockout play-off round – €1m
League ranking bonus (21st) – €4.4m (clubs receive one €275k share for each position higher in table)
TOTAL:  €32.42m (£27.14m)

I assume that the figure above doesn’t include gate receipts, hospitality and TV revenue🤔

Jobo Baldie
January 31, 2025 1:33 pm

Here’s my updated workings for the European performance related prize money for this season for Scottish clubs…

20250131-Prize-Money
Jobo Baldie
January 31, 2025 1:37 pm

And my very last one on this. I spotted an error within the bottom 5 placings on my Wednesday evening post. being a stickler for accuracy I just couldn’t let it pass!! Here’s the final league table….

202501311320
JimDom
January 31, 2025 1:38 pm

The merits of a smart January signing is evidenced by Nicolas Kuhn.

Didn’t show much at all, January to May, poor form, health issues, settling in period, etc. He came alive during the US tour, and he has continued to be a first pick all season, goals and assists aplenty.

Those summer Champions League qualifiers are not for the faint-hearted . Fail to prepare, prepare to fail.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
January 31, 2025 1:41 pm

MCCAFF. 1227

Who are you calling English? Lippy bastert!

Big Audio Dynamite
January 31, 2025 1:45 pm

Kasper misses training

A thing of beauty
January 31, 2025 1:59 pm

So CCV has recovered in time for the trip to
Motherwell. Good news but he misses a lot of big games considering he is the kingpin in our defence. What was actually wrong with him midweek?

McCaff
January 31, 2025 2:00 pm

HaHaHa Bobby! I felt Camba had the English psyche nailed! There are a few on here, mibbe yersel tae, that fitted the description!! 🤣🤣🤣

Mike in Toronto
January 31, 2025 2:09 pm

Had some dealings with policing over the years, but certainly no expert. Having said that, my understanding is that the technology to identify people in crowds is available and not prohitively expensive for large companies.

and if used to catch offenders, some portion of those costs could be recovered in legal proceedings against those caught and banned

im not saying I’m in favour of this. But puzzled that, if it is such a large problem, why more doesn’t seem to be being done to catch the offenders?

Has the Board deemed that it is better to have a stick with which to beat certain fan groups?

Mike in Toronto
January 31, 2025 2:21 pm

As someone else questioned, how do people get flares in?

I have a tiny Swiss Army knife (total length 1 1/2”, with a 1” blade) attached to my key ring. Several times when attending concerts of late, i was checked at security and told I couldn’t bring it in. From the pictures I have seen, these flares are considerably larger, yet are getting through🤷🏻‍♂️

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
January 31, 2025 2:22 pm

MCCAFF

Ptcha,if only I was so reserved. I wouldn’t get such a hard time from people,for starters.

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
January 31, 2025 2:23 pm

MIKEINTORONTO

I had a lighter confiscated at Belfast Airport!

ernie lynch
January 31, 2025 2:33 pm

So when you consider the determination and resourcefulness of younger fans do you fell offended, threatened or reassured?

Bada Bing
January 31, 2025 2:33 pm

Oglach- he is but not a complicated injury I don’t think

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS
January 31, 2025 2:35 pm

ERNIE

No. I feel pissed off. And I’m not the only one. Stop making excuses for them.

Bada Bing
January 31, 2025 2:36 pm

Schmeichel given a day off

Sol Kitts
January 31, 2025 2:42 pm

BOBBY MURDOCH’S CURLED-UP WINKLEPICKERS

January 31, 2025 2:23 pm
MIKEINTORONTO 
I had a lighter confiscated at Belfast Airport!

At Heathrow Airport, I forgot to put a tube of toothpaste into my hold baggage and left it in my cabin bag by mistake. It got as far as the x-Ray machine and was diverted to be individually checked.
The security woman thoroughly searched my bag, drug swabs, explosive swabs etc, and finally confiscated my toothpaste. I asked her what she thought I was going to do, clean the other passengers teeth to death? Her sense of humour bypass kicked in and I was warned about my conduct.😂
And, as Big Packy would say, that is a true story.

McCaff
January 31, 2025 2:45 pm

Weans have always been fannies, I know I was one once! The internet has opened up all sorts of previously prohibited or hard to access markets. We shouldn’t be surprised at their apparent resourcefulness in obtaining flares or fireworks but we should expect more from our polis and stadia security. A closer look at these agencies will reveal why the issues inside stadia are unchecked!
There are solutions to this problem but no-one, as Mike alludes to, seem to be too interested in challenging it. My thoughts are that a minimum number of personnel are required to police and steward our grounds, that is met but only at a minimum service level, any more will eat into profits…always follow the money!

ernie lynch
January 31, 2025 3:01 pm

So is the objection to pyros primarily because they are a genuine threat to safety/health or because their use risks sanctions?

McCaff
January 31, 2025 3:03 pm

Sol…I was travelling back from Frankfurt, in November. I’d already had a 125ml bottle of aftershave and a 200ml bottle of shower gel confiscated on the way out as I foolishly listened to my mate who told me the 100ml limit had been lifted!! On the way back, my body scan alerted the wummin in charge to an area about my neck and an area around my waistline that had flagged RED on the scanner. She directed me to a male colleague who asked me to undo my shorts to let him look inside!! What the feck!! This is in full public view, at the security points. Now, as it happened I was wearing a pair of shorts that I’ve had for about 15 years, they button inside the waistband, and since I’ve had them for so long I cannae do/undo the buttons as I’m a fair bit heavier than I was 15 years ago!! I just shimmy in and out of them when I need to. Anyhoo, the guy asks me to undo them, which I can’t and I explained this to him. He called another colleague over and the escorted me to a screened off area, and told me to remove my shorts. Now, I know I’ve got no contraband inside my shorts or my hoody, but they’ve got to check everything. They’re both wearing blue gloves and I’m thinking “Fuxake, how far is this gonna go!!!”
One guy checks my neckline, my cuffs and obviously finds nothing. Then checks my boxer shorts ( thankfully clean if threatening to be for not much longer. 😨😳) Oh my God, what’s next, I was really starting to fret at this point as there was only one place they hadn’t checked! 😰 But, no it was fine, I was allowed to put my shorts back on and leave but I tell you what…not much bothers me usually, I can normally rationalise things but I thought my tea was oot!!
When I came out of the security cabin my 3 pals were further along the concourse waiting on me…my face must’ve shown my anxiety cos they were absolutely pishing themselves!! 😂🤣😂

ernie lynch
January 31, 2025 3:11 pm

McCaff

 January 31, 2025 2:45 pm

Maybe plod reckon (given the lack of recorded incidents indicating otherwise) that pyros aren’t as great a hazard as is made out and that their efforts to prevent them being taken into grounds should be proportionate.

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 3:14 pm

Ernie, anyone with a right mind would never attend a celtic away match if they thought about health and safety.

If its not the police kettling and ensuring that they squeeze the life out of you prior to entry, then the thought of being attacked by the home support going to or coming away from the ground. Plus the bottles and coins that rain down on you during the match.

The record tells of a group of Villa fans waiting on celtic fans coming off the train. And uefa state that because its not in the stadium its not within their jurisdiction.

Football is a barbaric sport for travelling supporters.

Westcraigs
January 31, 2025 3:18 pm

I had taleggio confiscated at glasgow airport. Someone thought I was going to blow up a plane with a block of cheese.
The taleggio bomber was stopped in his tracks.

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 3:21 pm

They are not looking for flares, they are looking for bottles of coke, so you need to buy them in the ground

Auldheid
January 31, 2025 3:39 pm

Just Sayin’

 January 31, 2025 6:59 am

If God forbid R2ngers were to reach and win the EL final would they not celebrate like no tomorrow?

If Celtic reach final, would you not watch?

Big Packy is right. Both Celtic and R2fc are EL level clubs and it is the difference that CL income brings that skews our game.

It was the pursuit of CL money that killed Rangers and has destroyed the credibility of our game.

Both failing to qualify for CL next season might seem like treason but could be a blessing in disguise.

What is the point of earning £40m more if it ends up in the bank because it would only pay two thirds of the fee for decent EPL player like Watkins?

As Big Packy says it is time we as a support got real.

Sol Kitts
January 31, 2025 3:42 pm

The regulations when attending a football match are nonsensical to the point of stupidity.
I went to an English League Cup match earlier in the season, Colchester v Brentford, with my son and his step son. Entering the ground was pretty standard, cursory check as we went through the turnstiles. Went to the kiosk for a bottle of water, and was amazed that while I could take the bottle to my seat, the cap was not allowed. I asked why and was told that because it wasn’t connected to the bottle it was considered able to be used as a missile. After a good laugh, I pointed out that the cap weighed less than an ounce and was unlikely to travel far enough if thrown to do anyone any damage. A full bottle of water, however, could be launched a fair distance and do considerably more harm, cap or not. The security guy agreed, but said rules are rules and walked away.

Auldheid
January 31, 2025 3:44 pm

Westcraigs

 January 31, 2025 12:08 pm

If it wasn’t PL or MN it would make no difference.
They would follow the same strategy .
Just a change in bus driver, not a new journey.

ernie lynch
January 31, 2025 3:45 pm

Auldheid

 January 31, 2025 3:39 pm

Regular CL participation makes Celtic more attractive to promising and ambitious signing targets. Which suits the trading model.

The gulf between the two competitions seems to be growing.

I’d prefer Celtic’s reach to exceed their grasp.

Óglach
January 31, 2025 3:45 pm

English bias?

Birmingham police say that to date 21 arrests have been made following Wednesday’s CL match between Aston Villa & Celtic. Various charges made including throwing pyros onto the pitch and possession of illegal drugs. Strangely 19 of the 21 arrested are reported as being Celtic supporters, a hugely disproportionate figure don’t ya think🤔

Bad Bhoys CSC

Big Audio Dynamite
January 31, 2025 3:47 pm

Pitymevin,

At least one person today has suggested they be put in a court and charged with endangering life.

That sounds like the kinda crime that would carry a heavy sentence!

No warning, fine, education even …

Do not pass go, do not pick up yer £200, straight to the big house!

I know young guys are great at doing dumb things and making poor choices sometimes, but that seems an extreme way to punish a young person for what might just be that, a stupid choice.

What about their present and future? What about the fact that could ruin their life.

Anyone on here really claim they didn’t make some really poor choices growing up?

This is something that’s going on in every league in the world. What are other countries doing, it anything, about the problem?

I’m not a big fan of them but we need to be a bit more sensible in how we go about eradicating it and punish the people doing it ….if that’s the route we are going down.

Just don’t think it’s a good idea to throw a load of young people in prison for something that could very well be the first real stupid thing they’ve done growing up.

Remember, most of these young guys will be decent enough young people ..they are just copying what they have been watching other ultras do for decades.

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 3:58 pm

BAD, I’m with you.

One wrong turn and who knows how our lives might have turned out.

I’m also with you when I think the endangered life was way over the top.

Frankly an absolute nonsense.

Life of Brian stuff even.

“Nail them up, nail them up I say”

Óglach
January 31, 2025 4:12 pm

BAD

Just being charged with an offense is enough to potentially ruin someone’s life. Remember not so long ago when young Celtic supporters were arrested in police dawn raids and charged with breaking the offensive behavior at football matches law. Many were imprisoned for days waiting for their initial court appearance. All cases were dismissed, their crime – singing Irish Rebs’ and if i recall correctly 1 instance of wearing an offensive T shirt. Something that quite a few ‘alleged’ Celtic supporters tacitly agreed with not least the board who willingly handed over the personal details of members of Celtics ultra groups. Didn’t the site owner of another Celtic blog applaud a Celtic fan for actually ‘clipping’ on a child for committing some misdemeanor during a game.

INIQUITOUS IV
January 31, 2025 4:13 pm
INIQUITOUS IV
January 31, 2025 4:19 pm

Brendan talks to Sky Sports today.

https://youtu.be/NRNYOETPTAQ?si=GmYVovrxfjYdzX04

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 4:21 pm

Auldheid, you say if it wasn’t PL or MN then the route would be the same, but we have experienced a different route when PL was not in the building.

Fast signings in the window, and great sell on value. The difference on the Jota first time was that even when the option to buy had already been agreed, we had to wait until the last week of the window to get him and CCV in.

We now have missed out on a leftback and are scrabbling around looking for another alternative, until the summer.

It’s unforgettable this window and even the summer window when everything is last minute.com

Bada Bing
January 31, 2025 4:25 pm

Young Boys had plenty pyros at CP last week……just saying like…