Laughter Is The Best Medicine
Morning, all.
Taking a wee sidetrack today before I get things back to a Celtic-related subject, but bear with me on this. We all know our academy isn’t bringing players through at the rate it should, and hasn’t been for some time. I remember reading an article from when Tommy Docherty was at Man Utd, and he said that he would ask the youth coaches about any bright prospects they had for him. He expected three per season to be able to make occasional appearances for the first team as they progressed towards a regular place.
That was half a century ago, and I remember thinking even then that he was being perhaps a little optimistic. Under Jock Stein, our legendary manager who had made his name training our youths before being offered the Dunfermline job-and beating us in the cup final while he was there-we struggled to reach that. The days of The Quality Street Kids were gone, but we still saw youngsters being given a runout in the side before being given a rest back in their age group then being given a longer run, etc.
A properly run academy should, however, be able to provide at least one player of first team quality every season. We are falling considerably short of that, and have been for some time. Unfortunately for the national side, as we saw in the World Cup, this failing is not unique to us. Sure, we can blame poor quality age level coaching, and probably with some justification. But not every youth coach at every club academy can be rank rotten, it isn’t statistically possible. Therefore there must be another reason.
One such reason that has become the subject of increased discussion recently is political. Brexit. UK clubs can no longer poach youth academies in Europe for their brightest and best, and the work permits for players of any age from abroad have been tightened up considerably. This obviously limits the gene pool, and clubs have had to look elsewhere. If they can’t look to the outside world, they have to look back inwards again. To the rest of the UK.
That’s why we read of players transferring from one club academy to another at ages like 13, 14, etc. This only used to happen when players were released by one club and snapped up by another. Declan Rice, for example, was released by Chelsea at that age. He thoughts his dreams were over until WHU snapped him up. He thought he was Irish too at the time, but that’s another story. The one I’m concerned with today is when richer clubs raid poorer clubs for their brightest and best against the wishes of the parent club. And that is happening too often now for it to be of benefit to the game, the players, or the original club.
Why would a club see the benefit of an academy, nurturing talent from around 9yo and subsidising their coaching through to say 15yo, when the chances are that a bigger club will snap them up if they show any promise? But the other side of the coin has to be considered too. Despite increasing squad sizes, football still only allows eleven players on the pitch at any given time. If a 16yo moves from, say, Morton to Middlesborough, will he have as great a chance of breaking through to first team football there as in Greenock? If he moves from Hibs to Fulham? Sure, his initial wages will be a lot higher. But his long term career prospects might have taken a nosedive. He might never be seen again.
On the other hand, he might think that he will not only earn more but learn more at a richer club with better resources. That could mean being sufficiently highly regarded that a lesser club, say from EFL Div One, will splash out a six figure sum for him based only on his age relevant games. It’s a helluva risk, but one that an increasing number of Scottish players are willing to take. Over 100 so far, apparently.
There are very few of those who can look back and say that they have succeeded. Ben Doak was the subject of a £20m move to Bournemouth, a price which he would hardly have commanded as a teenager had he stayed with Celtic. Billy Gilmour is a vital cog in a very successful Napoli side. One or two others are undoubtedly making a decent living, and probably at a higher level than was likely in Scotland. Most however have fallen through the cracks, and are pretty much lost to our game.
Those lost to the game, if you remember, were regarded as the brightest and best in their age group. Had they stayed at home they would probably have progressed to first team duties, where there is every chance that clubs like Aberdeen or Hibs or St Mirren would have been interested. From there, the world-these clubs are known across the continent as a source of potential, and at affordable prices.
Unfortunately, Celtic, despite being the big cheese in Scotland, also lose their best talent down south. And if the money we allegedly are still paying Donovan and Murray is anything to go by, I’m not surprised. Sadly for those players with the exception of Doak, none of them has set the world on fire. None, in fact, can look back and say that the move was good for their career progression. But there is a fly in the ointment in that argument. Those players may not have progressed to the first team at their new club, but Celtic’s recent history suggests that they wouldn’t have made it here either.
We tend to loan our youngsters elsewhere, then cut them adrift. Few come back with the improvement that was apparent in CalMac twelve years ago after a stint at Notts County. Fewer still are trusted and considered good enough by their manager, as he and Kieran Tierney were by Ronny Deila. Everyone could see we had a star in KT, but CalMac was hardly a universal selection every week as far as the fans were concerned. This despite a goal in his debut, his European debut and his league debut for example.
How many since have come through and stayed there? Welsh was probably our only highlight in the covid season, and he and Montgomery were regular starters under Ange-until he decided they weren’t. Ralston has played plenty and even earned a multitude of caps, but without ever being a first pick. Donovan and Murray will only play as replacements, and they know it. But with the latter two, I put that down to poor coaching at a development stage, and since.
Celtic then are screwed in academy purposes for three reasons. Our best are cherrypicked by clubs from England and elsewhere, despite evidence that such moves rarely succeed. Our managers tend not to value our youths when they do pop up on the horizon, and prefer to bring someone in from outside. And thirdly, which probably explains the second point, their coaching in the youth groups hasn’t been good enough to have them ready for first team football.
And so we are screwed for a fourth reason. There is no point in fixing any one of these problems unless we can fix all three at once. We need to convince players that their interests are best served with us than elsewhere. We need to convince the managers that our youths can be trusted. And we need to improve academy coaching so that players are ready for first team football.
After that, all we have to do is convince the fans to support our youngsters, to let them learn without the undercurrent of disappointment or worse that accompanies every bad pass, every lost challenge, etc. We may pride ourselves in loving it when a youngster, one of our own, makes the breakthrough. Maybe we should give them the time to prove why they are there.
******
The other thing of note in Scottish football is the long overdue abolition of the Key Match Incidents panel. It was becoming increasingly obvious that these panels were calling incidents based on what team they support-or what team they don’t support! This meant that they were too often calling incidents wrongly, with their determination bearing no resemblance to truth as decided by updated Laws Of The Game.
As such, they were consistently undermining the good work that has been done by Willie Collum since his appointment as Head Of Refereeing in Scotland. I watch his monthly précis of decisions and I don’t always agree with them. That’s because I would have been a prime candidate for membership of the KMI Panel, had I not kicked with the wrong foot! I try to call incidents as a football fan rather than a Celtic fan, I really do. But I’m the first to admit my occasional failing on this.
The difference is that the DR and others don’t use my opinion on incidents to call out Willie Collum and the wider refereeing fraternity when they don’t like legitimate decisions against their favoured club. They frequently used the KMI Panel findings for this purpose though. Its abolition is, in my opinion, good for the game. Long overdue, amd one more dinosaur now extinct. The rest of the ingrained SFA prejudices however might take some time.
******
Finally, I continue to wish Martin a speedy and thorough recovery, and hope that he is feeling better. The Guardian has recently been running an occasional series of articles, My Feelgood Movie. One of mine has always been The Producers. You can’t really go far wrong with Mel Brooks and Gene Wilder when they are in full-on farce mode. Hard to believe you could have seen that around the same time Billy McNeill was scoring against Vojvodina!
Dunno why I thought of it yesterday, but Zero Mosel as Max Byalistok might have had something to do with it. Whichever of the Byalistoks Martin watched yesterday, I’m sure he went to sleep last night laughing as much as I was. It’s the best medicine, you know.
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Above article by BMCUWP
POTY Competition
sencelpoty@gmail.com
Good morning, friends and a Big Happy Friday to everyone on this fine group chat. 2 pieces of news that I eagerly await today (1) How’s Martin and (2) At least 1 new signing. Please….
Good article Bobby. I’d like to see more of our academy players making the bench at least in our domestic games. If only we could start going 2 or 3 goals up, we might then see run outs for McArdle, Hatton, Ure, etc.
Bobby
Correct the KMI Panel was a complete nonsense, it’s member composition was highly questionable, it’s decisions more so ….
BMCUWP
The disjointed way Despot and Lackeys run the club make youth succession impossible.
Strange as you would bring more of what they crave( filthy lucre) to the club with a professional approach.
Imagine having home grown talent to sell.
Our only purpose to be is making profit so you would think they paid attention to detail.
Unfortunately they make money in a slapdash way with little effort.
As a result our football department is a total disaster with everything reactionary when profits are threatened.
There is a quick fix here and it’s a broad strokes affair for every top flight club in Scotland, akin to the three foreigners rule from years back. And it’s this.
Every starting 11 in Scotland has to include one under 20s player in the line up and one on the bench. If one is sold then they need to be replaced by another.
Furthermore, every club in Scotland has to ensure a minimum of 1,000 top game minutes for a minimum of five academy grown player every season ( regardless of age).
Then,and only then, will we grow the National stock of players.
If we want to go further we can restructure the leagues and ensure no relegation for three seasons to bed new ideas in.
This is the only social media I have but you wouldn’t need to do much searching to see the huns are sharpening their knives for mahogany man.
They appear to have 25 midfielders, most of which have been written off already. They are raging that the “Absolutely rotten” Dan Neil actually had the armband last night.
They’re also turning the air blue over them buying another player (Godfrey) with a terrible injury record who’s, unsurprisingly, injured in his first game.
The things being said about his (McInnes) decision to play Diomande in nearly every min of the games played so far, show their patience is now wafer thin.
That’s 7 away European defeats in a row for them.
Anyone watch their game? Judging by what’s happening with Hearts, I’d say it’s obvious who our nearest challenger for the title will be.
Genius,get well soon Boss
We’ve had the same guy running the academy for 18yrs.
Just think about that.
We continually rewards guys for failure
ST TAMS
That is absolutely shocking. Apparently, we’ve had the same guy running our PR department since Fergus was there. I wonder if they are by any chance related?
San luis.
Motherwell had 5 academy players on the bench last Sunday
I really hope that’s the end of any interest Everton had in AJ (wish he’d kept his mouth shut ) as he is absolutely vital to our defence because a) I don’t believe for a min the club would properly replace him if he goes in this window.
and b) if the rumoured asking price is accurate, it shows whoever is making the calls doesn’t have a fucking clue about players and their ability!
I keep hearing-reading the reason is the country these players play in ..eh? Can anyone explain what that has to do with a players ability? So, if we had an 18yo Maradona we’d just need to accept we couldn’t command a massive fee for him?
AJ is a top, top player.
I don’t watch any English football really, but I’d be willing to bet there aren’t too many better right backs playing there right now.
If nothing materializes now, I think he’s the type to be totally professional about it (A guess obv) and get his head down and perform.
Engels, for example, may not be over the moon if his ‘big money’ move doesn’t happen in this window (Lot of guesswork here) and I’m not a fan of relying on players who have checked out mentally.
We should be going ahead, much faster, with building a squad good enough to compete across all competitions, as the sales of good players to England will take care of itself.
Though, you worry what will happen if it turns out Daizen is our biggest sale this summer. Which is no different to the same worries we have every time a transfer window is open.
Btw, £15m would have been the bargain of te summer in England, considering nobodies are changing hands for 80 ffs!
The scouts – management didn’t think it was worth paying that for someone as good as Alistair? Wow.
There seems to be a lot of people making fortunes from the gqme, and clearly aren’t very good at their job …you don’t need to look further than our own club to see that
One of the biggest hurdles for our upcoming young players is the lack of competitive matches, notably since the demise of the Reserve League. When the Huns pulled the plug on it in an effort to reduce costs, we shamefully allowed ourselves to follow suit. The chance for young players to shine, and injured players to gradually return from injury in a competitive environment disappeared at that point. The B team is not the answer – who would want to be identified as only good enough for 2nd best?
It’s time for Celtic to push for the inclusion of their Reserve team in Division 2, with the proviso that they can never be promoted to the same league as the first team. We were informed last night on Premier Sports that Benfica’s reserve team plays in the 2nd division in Portugal. The team can’t be promoted, but the raised level of competition ensures a constant throughput of quality young players for the first team. Last night’s result showed the virtue of this system….Enlightened Association 6, Dinosaurs 1.
Learning that we have first team players on £900 a week, regardless of the type of contract and considering the money in the game now, is a good indication why most of our young players head for the hills the minute their agent tells them there’s interest from elsewhere.
Could you blame them?
On a weekly basis, what do Doohan, Murray and Colby earn between them? You could probably have added Ralston to that group, though he’s probably better off after signing his latest deal.
Would like to be privy to the conversations young lads like Colby have with their own agents. It would also be good to see the look on the faces of any agents when they enquire about a young player at Parkhead and find out their pay …
He’s on what a week!? ..did you say hundreds?
Jota training with 1st team,
How long have we been talking about the need for the SFA to join the modern world?
How many decades?
BAD
”I don’t watch any English football really, but I’d be willing to bet there aren’t too many better right backs playing there right now.”
I was talking about that with one of my mates down here about a week ago. There’s a few English clubs with problems in that position. Everton, obviously. Both Manchester clubs. Chelsea, if Reece is injured again. Arsenal. I really can’t understand why he isn’t at the top of the list for better clubs than Everton, and I’m totally flummoxed why they think they can get him for £10m.
Bialystok & Blooooo – ooooommmm Bialystok & Blooooo – ooooommmm 🤣
AJ was in the world cup best team .which I saw on tv.15 million is a joke for a player like that in his prime.25 plus easily !!
Jota at Lennoxtown
https://youtu.be/GuEnyw7xUoA?is=PYMosoF0A19_hXYC
Good Article.
The SFA and the SPFL should create the following rules for their respective cup competitions. Aligned so that the rules become standard. Only the bigger clubs would be against it.
Require five Scottish-trained (home-grown) players in every domestic Cup starting XI.
Discrimination laws inhibit it being based on nationality
Of those, require two or three to be under 21.
Support the rule with financial incentives for clubs that develop and play young Scottish talent.
Croatia, Denmark and Norway have populations comparable to Scotland, yet they have consistently produced more elite players over the last 20 years.
Denmark
The Danish Football Association decided years ago that player development would be a national project, not just an individual club issue.
Key features:
A unified coaching philosophy across youth football.
Heavy investment in coach education.
Close collaboration between the federation and professional clubs.
Young players are expected to play senior football early.
The result is a conveyor belt of players moving from clubs such as FC Nordsjælland, FC Midtjylland and FC Copenhagen into Europe’s top leagues.
Norway
Norway realised it was underachieving despite having excellent facilities.
Its federation invested in:
coach education,
sports science,
artificial pitches to allow year-round training,
technical development from a young age.
Norwegian clubs also became far more willing to trust teenagers.
Players such as Martin Ødegaard and Erling Haaland are exceptional talents, but the broader point is that Norway now regularly produces technically accomplished professionals.
Croatia
Croatia is perhaps the most remarkable example.
Population: about 3.8 million.
Its system revolves around:
exceptional coaching,
highly competitive youth football,
clubs viewing player development as a business model.
Clubs such as GNK Dinamo Zagreb know they must produce players because they cannot compete financially with Europe’s richest leagues.
That has produced generations including Luka Modrić, Joško Gvardiol and many others.
Scotland
Scotland has introduced coaching reforms over the years, and the Scottish Football Association has invested in coach education and youth initiatives. So it is not accurate to say nothing has been done.
However, several structural issues remain.
1. Winning today often outweighs development
Many Scottish clubs operate under severe financial pressure.
Managers often need immediate results to keep their jobs, making them more likely to choose an experienced 27-year-old import over an 18-year-old academy graduate.
2. Limited first-team opportunities
A recurring criticism is that promising Scottish youngsters train with senior squads but do not accumulate enough competitive minutes.
3. Financial model
Many clubs believe they can sign experienced players from overseas relatively cheaply and obtain an immediate return.
That can reduce opportunities for local talent.
4. Fragmentation
Denmark and Norway have often been praised for stronger alignment between their federations and clubs.
In Scotland, the professional clubs and governing bodies do not always share identical priorities. Clubs understandably focus on their own competitive and financial interests, while the national association has broader development objectives.
I don’t think Scotland’s main problem is a lack of talented young footballers it’s the pathway.
Imagine two equally talented 18-year-olds:
One is at Dinamo Zagreb or FC Nordsjælland and plays 35 senior matches before turning 20.
The other spends two years mainly playing B-team football or sitting on the bench.
By age 20, the first player has accumulated thousands of minutes of senior football. The second has not. That difference compounds over time and disillusionment and panic decisions are made to resurrect careers.
That’s why such a domestic cup proposal is worth pursuing.
Requiring a minimum number of Scottish-trained young players in competitions controlled domestically would not solve every problem, but it would directly address one of the biggest bottlenecks: getting meaningful senior minutes into young players at an earlier age.
It is not a guaranteed solution, and it would have trade-offs, but it targets a structural issue rather than relying on individual clubs to change behaviour voluntarily.
Bobby,
People who say it’s because these guys are playing in Scotland are probably as near to the truth as any other theory we could come up with.
Just one of the things England is known for, looking down on anything related to Scotland. They think it’s almost impossible for a great player to be found in Scotland, which is strange considering the list of players who’ve been at Celtic.
Let’s put it this way – before England was swimming in money, I’ll bet you our list of players (Whole history) would be much more impressive than Everton!
But, and I mean this, if I was a scout for one of these cash rich clubs in England, I would never judge a player on where he plays, that’s stupid, I’d only have eyes for the guy’s ability.
There’s not a shred of doubt that AJ is a top player ..none whatsoever.
I sincerely hope they fuck off.
Iniquitous IV
Looks like Maloney has them going full pelt on ring a roses on the training ground.
We are so innovative!
Awe Naw@12:40
Good post.
Unfortunately no one in Scottish football is interested in sensible proposals.
Did anyone in Scotland read the McLeish report?
Only thing you missed was refereeing.
Until refs in Scotland referee on an impartial and modern remit the game will bear little resemblance to modern football.
Also honesty is required in assessing the issues in Scottish football and that will not be countenanced.
Arsenal – 70m on 2 players.
Villa – 90m on 2 players.
Bournemouth – 50m on 2 players.
Brentford – 75m on 3 players.
And on …
And we only asked for 15m for a guy who was the best RB at the world cup.
Unfuckingbelievable.
Who is making these decisions? They need chased!
BAD
Unfortunately the English will pay what market asks!
Our recent sales Kyogo, O’Reilly and Khun have not been successful dropping valuations English have of our guys.
As the standard of Scottish clubs keeps declining in European competition then value of players also drops.
We are a victim of circumstance’s and some have been self created.
“Winning today often outweighs development”
very good point, Awe naw.
Maloney on SSN at 1.30, might get an update on the Boss
Fan 12.58
Hard to argue with that too.
Not sure if any English clubs are taking notice of what happens to players once they leave us, but recently our good players haven’t went on to much success after going.
SOLKITTS
The reason the huns gave was indeed tied to costs, and nothing at all to do with the fact that we were going for nine in a row.
Nothing at all.
BMCUWP,
If I remember correctly the reserves had done 9 in a row and were almost certain to do 10, hence the huns pulling out.
CALTONTONGUES
You’re probably right. And why aren’t you with the rest of the Shipwrecks? I hear LEGGY has loads of cherries available for your cocktails.
BMCUWP,
I had planned on going but woke up this morning with a massive black eye (left one).
Don’t know how it happened, either a burst blood vessel or the way I was sleeping, weird.
I’m sure the lads will enjoy themselves as usual 😁
HH
Being permitted to withdraw youth teams from leagues due to financial reasons is due to a lack of PSR governance and oversight within the Scottish Football Association.
It’s due to the SFA still being a pension plan for compliant masonic leading brothers.
All the top 5 leagues including leagues demand financial responsibility from their members.
If you compare Scotland with leagues of a similar size, the picture is quite revealing.
Belgium
Yes – financial licensing and monitoring.
Netherlands
Yes – KNVB licensing and financial supervision.
Denmark
Yes – licensing, solvency and financial criteria.
Norway
Yes – club licensing and financial control system
Sweden
Yes – club licensing, including financial requirements and the “elite licence.”
Austria
Yes – Bundesliga licensing with financial audits.
Switzerland
Yes – Swiss Football League licensing.
Croatia
Yes – licensing under the Croatian federation with UEFA-aligned financial criteria.
Czech Republic
Yes – club licensing and financial requirements.
Scotland
No domestic PSR-style profitability rules. Clubs comply with Scottish FA licensing and UEFA rules where applicable, but there is no equivalent to the Premier League’s PSR or La Liga’s spending cap.
When you compare Scotland with countries of a similar footballing and economic scale, Scotland is actually the exception rather than the norm.
Most comparable leagues have gone beyond UEFA’s minimum requirements and operate a domestic financial control system. Those systems differ in design, but they all give the domestic league some ability to intervene before financial problems become severe.
Why hasn’t Scotland?
There are several likely reasons:
The Scottish game has traditionally preferred lighter domestic regulation, relying on Scottish FA licensing and UEFA oversight.
Many clubs are relatively small and have limited administrative resources, so there has been reluctance to introduce another regulatory framework.
Unlike England, there has been less political pressure from owners and broadcasters to create a detailed domestic profitability regime.
The Scottish Football Association has historically been favourable towards Rangers FC. which has been experiencing serious financial problems. It’s imperative within Scottish society that Rangers returns to it’s pre-eminent position. Hence why many decisions that have been ratified for the benefit of Rangers FC have been generally detrimental to the rest of the Scottish game and why the Scottish Football association is highly reluctant to adopt nevermind enforce any kind of financial regulation.
Many of the leagues that have:
stronger domestic financial oversight provide better youth pathways,and higher rates of player exports and are the very leagues Scotland competes with for UEFA coefficient places—Denmark, Norway, Austria, Belgium and Croatia.
That doesn’t prove financial regulation causes better player development, but it does suggest those associations have generally taken a more interventionist approach to improving the long-term health of their domestic game than Scotland has.
Geneitis (Torino mid) not named in the squad for their latest pre-season game.
Hopefully a sign
CALTONTONGUES
Not good, mate. I used to get red eye, where the whites of my eye turned red like in a photograph. Burst blood vessels or summat. Hasn’t happened for quite some time, thankfully. Looks bloody awful!
An update….with no update….
BOBBY
Good article.
Great article Bobby.
I have long srgued on my family and friends fitba chat that our academy is a waste of time and resources precisely since Brexit as you highlighted. When Kelly vata and Cummings are being offered 16k a week before they have properly made the first team then what is the point
Is there not a UEFA rule that teams must have an Academy?
HH
Awe Naw,
Good post. You might as well add:
Bring back the Anglo-Scottish cup except maybe its a ‘home international cup’ with Norn Irn / Wales / Eire clubs, to be populated by teams that get pumped out of European qualifiers (hertz/hibs/huns etc) plus championship and/or 1st Div teams.
It would generate the odd interesting awayday and I think would be of benefit to minnows.
CT,
No clubs just need to fufill national licensing criteria. That criteria varies from nation to nation. Scotland licensing criteria mentions youth development and is what Lawwell would call;
light touch
Less interventionist
Principles-based regulation
Flexible regulatory framework
Minimal regulatory approach
Limited oversight
Market-led approach
Risk-based regulation
In other words 5WA, LNS, Malicious prosecutions
FunnyHandShakesAllRoundCSC
Dubaibhoy,
Yeah that sounds like a good idea. Anything. If it’s not beneficial to The Old Firm it won’t be happening
Interesting debate on youth development. Personally, I think Celtic have a strategic decision to make on the future. Should the club push for change within Scottish football, such as a Reserve League, Juvenile League, or should the club devise its own development process which would rely on developing players outside Scotland? I am not sure what the latter would look like but participation in a league structure outside Scotland would be part of it.
As it stands, the SFA efforts on development seem haphazard and laissez faire. I would hope that the club would see value in progressing its own path in development.
Anyone heard of an example of the club running an ideas generation session?
Rebus
Shaun Maloney presser today.
https://youtu.be/BBipoakipnw?is=hsY7ED03ohvMBokc
Anyone heard of an example of the club running an ideas generation session?
https://i.makeagif.com/media/6-30-2019/AyROD4.mp4
VG
Hassan left out of Oviedo’s squad.
Yes, UEFA requires top-tier clubs to run a youth development program and support multiple youth teams to obtain a license for European competitions. Under the UEFA Club Licensing and Financial Sustainability Regulations, lacking an approved youth program means a club cannot access UEFA tournaments. [1, 2]
Core UEFA Youth Requirements
Youth Developement – Spain is the standard that EVERY nation should be trying to copy without question.
Current Euro champions with 6 under 24s in the squad and current World champions with 9 in the squad.
Shows it can be done IF clubs even those forced to do it due to FSR etc give youth a chance when good enough. Trouble in Scotland is we give youth one or two pre season run outs and then nothing worth talking about.As in Celtic’s case we need to win every week and the support will turn if a youth player is played most weeks. Donovan and Murray are examples at present.
A bit like going for a job and being told you need experience but cant get it if no one will hire you.