Do We Never Learn?

Morning,all.

The good news from Wednesday was obviously that we qualified for the next stage of the tournament. The better news may be that we saw a resurgence in form of both Idah and Hatate, two players who had been having an underwhelming season so far. The bad news was that the mechanics of the play-off system means that we will play either Real Madrid or Bayern Munich-two sides who would have expected to be finishing in the top eight of the table before a ball was kicked, thus avoiding the next stage completely. 

The even worse news is that we have probably triggered the outstanding suspended sentence on away fans attending. Which, in turn, means that further offences will be punished on a sliding scale, and could even lead to partial or full closure of Celtic Park for a future European match or matches. 

It seems we never learn, doesn’t it? UEFA have made clear their opposition to flares and smoke bombs over the years, yet elements of our support seem to think that rules don’t apply to them, or that rules are there for breaking. Here’s the thing though-if you disagree with the rules, your only course of action is to get them changed. Flouting those rules, especially in the face of an ultimate authority which is absolutely determined to enforce them, only leads to tears. This is a lesson with countless precedents through the ages, with countless martyrs to show for it. Sometimes they had right on their side, other times they were simply rebels without a clue. 

Pyrotechnics of any sort are illegal when used in crowd situations like inside a football ground. This isn’t just a football regulation, something dreamed up by a faceless killjoy bureaucrat somewhere; it is the law of the land, and applies in many other jurisdictions other than in Scotland. Regardless, when we play in UEFA competitions, we do so under their jurisdiction and under their rules. 

I’m not going to point blame at any particular fan grouping for this, not even to suggest that the pyro in question was likely to be the work of the same groups who practice their “art” so regularly, and with impunity, in Scotland. That would be unfair. It is not though unfair to point out that the guilty parties over the years have cost the club and the fans a well-earned and hard-earned spotless reputation in the game by their antics, as well as a considerable sum of money. Now, it looks likely that they will have cost our travelling support the opportunity to see our favourites in one or other of the game’s great cathedrals. And they probably won’t even GAF either. Next chance they get, out the pyro will come. As though nothing ever happened, as though nothing they ever do has consequences. 

So how do we deal with this going forward? One answer is our traditional method of self-policing, but that probably isn’t likely in these days of coked-up mindless thuggery and worse. Besides, while a boot in the baws would probably work just as well as it ever has, you can bet your bottom dollar that the police, stewards and CCTV operators would finally do their bloody job when it came to that particular offence. But doing nothing and carrying on as before is obviously not an option. 

For years now, large sections of our support have complained that it is well-nigh impossible to get tickets for away games in Scotland, never mind in Europe. That they are always allocated to the same people, time after time. This is because the club allocates these tickets to those with a track record of attendance at away matches. Which, of course, means that if you cannot get an away ticket, you cannot get an away ticket in the future either. 

Yes, it is a reward for loyalty. But it is unfair on everyone else. Certainly it is easier for the club to allocate a ticket to someone who is almost certain to accept it, than to allocate them in a lucky dip only to have the lucky winner decline the opportunity. But the fact remains that it is not fair, and it has caused resentment now for many years. 

Equally, if the club keep racking up fines because of misbehaviour by away fans, is it even sensible to continue to allocate tickets to the same faces every time? Is this an area that the club should be looking at? Obviously we can’t ban every fan allocated a ticket for the Villa game, as that would be stupid. But the club must have a good idea who is most likely to cause this type of problem at games, and they should be proactive in dealing with it. Whether that means sending in our own employees with these groups as a means of keeping an eye on them-any volunteers for that thankless task?-or simply denying them the tickets because it is the club’s right to do so and they don’t need to give a reason, I don’t know. 

I don’t know the answers. But I’m not paid to know them, nor to provide them. But I do know that the club has tolerated this for far too long, and it has to stop. The good name of the club has been damaged time and again. We have been hit in the pocket repeatedly. Now, the rest of the fanbase will have to suffer too.

In addition to which, our team is going to one of the most famous venues in the sport, in any sport. We face an uphill task, let there be no doubt about that. And thanks to the actions of a small bunch of selfish attention-seekers, we will have to do so without any support whatsoever. 

Thanks a f….g bunch. 

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Above article by BMCUWP

201 Comments
A thing of beauty
January 31, 2025 7:00 pm

Bada,
I saw the tickets are out for sale for Bayern. The link to the Celtic site says they are on sale to season ticket holders but doesn’t not mention HCTS members that I could see. Anyone know if the HCTS is in place for this match. I know it’s a long time since we made a knockout tie so the rules may be different.
PMN,
Thats a terrible story. I am not surprised that your parents believed the police, it’s just how things were for a lot of people, including myself. Police were to be trusted. But life teaches you lessons and I would not trust a cop as far as I could throw one now. I’m sure your parents would be the same. Shame on those lying cops.

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 7:02 pm

Mike, thanks for that. I was lucky that because I knew I did nothing wrong, I was not going to lie down and take it. No chance, my parents did teach me that.

BAD I always remember the Bremen trip 88, first time abroad for me. Great trip, brilliant bus journey and fantastic experience. But in saying that, I had to tell a guy I worked with not to fling a bottle or I would fling him. He was 20 years my elder, Just a fucking idiot and they are everywhere.

I’m really surprised no one, but no one stood up to the guy with the flare. Society has changed, and people don’t want to confront Idiots.

I stay in England and took another work mate to the PSG game back in the day. He was amazed at how the police abroad control us, as I said, we self police. This is my worry if we don’t self police, then the law will take that upon itself and no body wants that.

We are one of the best supporters on the planet, we just need to remember, we are the ambassadors of celtic and we will be welcome everywhere we go. But it only takes a couple of dickheads to spoil it for everyone, and for me, it’s time to get back to telling someone when they are wrong.

Big Audio Dynamite
January 31, 2025 7:03 pm

I always wondered why more Celtic fans were weren’t at least suspicious of Sevco winning an unbeaten title in the middle of this period of dominance by us.

Oh, and it just so happened to be the season we would have done 10 in a row.

Simply can’t have the huns walking away from the game.

The whole football set-up in Scotland is geared to that one goal.

Keeping some sort of hun team relevant in Scotland.

And if you think sports aren’t bent, I’d say you haven’t been paying attention.

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 7:05 pm

ATOB, did you get a ticket and how was your trip ?

INIQUITOUS IV
January 31, 2025 7:10 pm

Spoof Slippy G exit interview. Says he will be Sevco manager again if Celtic re- appoint Neil Lennon.🤣😂

https://youtu.be/GRDanIlFwok?si=TFkKawbNFsgTLUpB

Big Audio Dynamite
January 31, 2025 7:14 pm

Pitymevin,

I’ve seen us police ourselves my whole life,, that’s been my experience of following the club.

One of the older guys would let you know if you were stepping out of line, and you just accepted that’s the way things are. We need to pay attention to protecting our hard earned reputation (Lots of miles travelled) , cause you can lose it much quicker than you gained it!

If by going into away games with pyros is going to have a negative affect on both the club and us, knock it on the head.

It just makes sense to do what is best for the club.

Just Sayin’
January 31, 2025 7:17 pm

Henry Winter:

”Over the past eight days, Rangers and Celtic have shown they can give Premier League clubs significant challenges on the field of play. It is the significant challenges to the authorities off the field that end any chance of the Old Firm ever joining the Premier League.”

INIQUITOUS IV
January 31, 2025 7:21 pm

Wow! I knew Liverpool played their B team in their last CL game. I did not realize it was their C team on the bench!

Mike in Toronto
January 31, 2025 7:32 pm

My former colleague won what was at the time (may still be) the largest award against the police in Canada for gay bashing. Was terrible. I had a few cases myself where we caught the cops lying.

And had a few non-professional run ins with them as well. I was coming home late from the office one night, and just got off the train, when I got flagged down by a cop who said she was investigating an armed robbery at the local Walmart I think. I showed her my train ticket, which was stamped 30 minutes earler and 20 miles away (so I clearly was not the robber). At this point, she is doing her job, so I was not only co-operative, but also polite …. But I was carrying abig black tennis bag (had 10 racquets training suit, etc.), and she told me to open it as she said the robber was carrying 3 big black bags.

I (very politely, I’m sure) said, ‘excuse, Ms. Police officer, I am sure that you didnt mean that, as that would be a breach of my constitutional rights’ (or something similar to that)…. she did not take that well, and she put her hand on her gun and said, ‘if you dont have anything to hide, you are going to open that bag’…. now, that REALLY pissed me off … so this time, I was … shall we say, rather less polite’….. it got rather heated … eventually, her partner came running over … I showed him my ID, said they could arrest me, in which case I was going to sue their asses, or they could go fuck themselves (except, again, I dont think I was that polite).

I was fuming … got home that night, and saw the story on the news about the robbery .. suspect was 5’6″ … she knew that before she stopped me …. as some on here who know will tell you, I am 240 lbs, and 6’3″……. hvent been 5’6″ a since I was a kid ….but she was just on a bit of a power trip, and got pissed when I didnt just do what she ordered!

As I have learned from some of my cases over the years, had I not been a big white professional male, this story could have gone very differently and ended very badly for me….

Auldbhoy67
January 31, 2025 7:32 pm

So Walsh did his job last week sending off the 2 USG players resulting in der hun qualifying for a top 8 place in Europa league. How deep does the bowler hat brigade run.
He’ll be back in favour now.

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 7:35 pm

Exactly right BAD, we need to get back to talking to each other and addressing what we all know will be for the benefit of the whole support.

I’m sure if there are rules within the GB then they will hold each other to account.

Never been part of an ultra group, or casual as in my day. I thought the guys in my school that did do the casual shite were brave in a group, but frightened wee boys when it came to a square go.

McCaff
January 31, 2025 7:39 pm

ATOB..email just received to say HCTS has been activated and tickets secured.

BELMONTBRIAN63
January 31, 2025 7:50 pm

Evening all.
———————————–

Auldbhoy67

 January 31, 2025 7:32 pm
————————————————

Agreed

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 7:56 pm

Mike, you need to wonder what goes through their heads, and what the best outcome could be for them.

Anyway I think I might have finally made progress with the 17 year old daughter. She is starting to get it, and it doesn’t half make life so much easier for everyone involved.

Yes da, but, then think of an excuse of why you might do it tomorrow. Rather than just saying no, and if you think I’m wrong, tell me why, dont just just walk away angry.

Hopefully a lesson in life.

Leonardo da Vinci said, “Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence”. 

Leggy
January 31, 2025 8:04 pm

INIQUITOUS IV,

All good here.

Very positive, but obviously a wee afternoon in The Shipbank helped 😁😁😁

Hope you are well 👍

A thing of beauty
January 31, 2025 8:10 pm

McCaff,
Thanks for info. Much appreciated.
PMN,
We had a great trip. CCB got the offer of a ticket on the morning of the game from a good guy who had an unexpected spare. Unfortunately as there was only one he didn’t take it. We also could have taken it but it didn’t seem right for one of us to go and leave the others.
As regards the conversation you are having with BAD about self policing, in my experience it is very difficult today. Now can I caveat this and say I never saw one bit of trouble in Birmingham but I have seen trouble in the past and have been on the end of a tirade of verbal abuse with CCB when we tried to suggest that a crowd of young guys stop singing about the ibrox disaster on the train home. People taking a drink and plenty of it was never that much of a problem. They could still be told and I include myself in this btw. You might not be happy but your mates soon tell you to pipe down. Nowadays you would not dare question the behaviour of anyone at the football or in the pubs before the game. Drugs make people behave very differently and their prevalence within the support under I would say 40/45 is mind blowing. It’s just not worth the possible outcome. We learnt that lesson for sure.

INIQUITOUS IV
January 31, 2025 8:15 pm

Mike in Toronto
Remind me not to get into a wee squabble with you, Mike!😂

Your post reminded me of a brief meeting I had at Celtic Park just before the 2-2 Aberdeen game back in October. LEGGY of this parish introduced me to the inestimable Jobo Balde. The charming Jobo is of average height. Then LEGGY tapped me on the shoulder to introduce AN TEARMANN of the CQN parish. I turned round and was looking squarely at somewhere between the midriff and shoulders of a Goliath!

AN TEARMANN was also great to meet. I just would not like to be in his bad books, or sitting behind him at a game!🤣
HH
Iniquitous IV😊

Mike in Toronto
January 31, 2025 8:31 pm

Pity

Dont want to sound like I am just bashing police … it is a thankless job these days, and there are lots of good ones … unfortunately, there are more than a few bad ones, and the amount of stuff the bad ones get away with is frightening …

mind you, I dont think I would want to be a kid these days, any more than I would want to be a cop ….

I often say that kids today know so much more than I did when I was there age … but perhaps because they have so much information available to them (much of which is nonsense), they may have less understanding ….

then again, I may just be an old geezer talking nonsense….

INIQUITOUS IV
January 31, 2025 8:36 pm

Pitymevin

 January 31, 2025 5:19 pm
And he looks about 50 years old.
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Not sure you are right mate. It’s the guy with the black hoodie covering much of his face that is tossing the flare. It’s hard to estimate his age, but it should still be easy to identify him.

And regardless of his age, he should be barred from Celtic Park. Don’t know how we could prevent him getting away tickets. If he young, I would commute a crucifixion sentence, but maybe introduce the stocks at Glasgow Cross.
HH
Iniquitous IV😊

Mike in Toronto
January 31, 2025 8:38 pm

Inq

Your post hit a mark with me ….

I lost touch with some of the CQN guys when I stopped posting there … easy to let things slide as I wasnt going to games or posting there ….which was a shame, as there are some genuinely great lads there… people like Norrie, Almore, Hrvatski Jim to name but a few….just really, really nice lads…

After a prompt on here from Perth recently, I ended up reconnecting and having dinner with another CQN stalwart and all ’round great lad, Torontony .. had such a nice catch up, it made me think I should probably pop onto CQN and say hello to some of the old gang sometimes.

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 8:39 pm

ATOB, that’s a very good point about the drugs of today. In my time the back of the bus had a fragrance of hash, and everyone knows dope smoking is not conducive to fighting.

The coke pandemic today is everywhere, the amount of people with sniffles in bogs today is unreal. Its like it’s became the norm. I don’t know where they get the money from, that’s what baffles me.

Mike in Toronto
January 31, 2025 8:49 pm

Villa lose talented but tempramental Jhon Duran (300,000 per week he is gettig in Saudi) and apparently are now in talks to replace him with Man United problem child, Marcus Rashford…

something about frying pan and fire springs to mind …

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 8:51 pm

INIV, his age is irrelevant. He was seated in the corporate seats, and it also looks as if there is a woman taking a picture.

At what age do you stop thinking, that’s a great idea, aye get me one ordered.

I remember going to a hibs game, I was around the age of 17 and the hibs casuals looked about 40 and even then I thought. Fucking grow up man, what’s wrong with you.

It’s baffles the mind, I’m sure he doesn’t feels like the big man today, but more like the cunt he is, and will think twice before he does anything like that again

I’m still not sure if I would want him jailed mind. It’s not like anyone lost an eye.🙈🙈🙈

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 8:55 pm

Incoming

INIQUITOUS IV
January 31, 2025 8:57 pm

MIKE IN TORONTO
“But in my sense there was always a part of Scottish / Catholic culture that says ‘dont question authority … police, teachers, police ….’ And although the influence of church has faded in Scotland and most countries, I think elements of that remain.”
————————————————-
Mike:
I was brought up in a Teuchter house in Glasgow by Wee Frees. I was around 13 or 14 and one day at school, in a classic case of mistaken identity, I took the fall for another kid who was too scared to own up. Despite protesting my innocence ( where were you when I needed you?🤣), I was leathered 6 times on each hand with the tawse. When I got home, my hands were still stinging, were bright red and the base of each thumb was swollen.

I desperately hid this from my parents, but unfortunately for me, my young brother clocjed ny hands and instantly cliped, “Iniq got the belt, Iniq git the belt”. Wee bastert!

Instantly, like a striking cobra, my father clapped both of my ears, hard. “Don’t you EVER misbehave and get the belt again!” There was no, “ What happened, son?” It was an immediate reaction that authority was in the right, no questions asked.

So you are absolutely correct. Authority was not questioned, and it was not just Kaflik families either.
HH
Iniquitous IV😊

INIQUITOUS IV
January 31, 2025 9:03 pm

PITY MEVIN
“I’m still not sure if I would want him jailed mind. It’s not like anyone lost an eye”
—————————————
Aye, but someone could have, or could have done a Rapid Vienna.

Remember the wee fanny who touched the face of the Milan keeper, just after Scott McDonald scored the winner? He was stretchered off!!😱

Never give an opponent any possible advantage.

Apart from anything else, these flares are toxic. I have asthma, so if I were in the vicinity, my immediate wish would be to boot the moron in the gonads.
HH
Iniquitous IV😊

Auldbhoy67
January 31, 2025 9:14 pm

Ref the flare thrower. It looks like its the guy with the black baseball cap to me. Regardless of which guy it is surely the club and authorities will be able to identify the culprit. Amazing that we see a picture of this within hours but took 2 weeks before the hun who hit Engels with a coin is pictured.

INIQUITOUS IV
January 31, 2025 9:21 pm

Sol Kitts

 January 31, 2025 12:22 pm
How do you smuggle a flare into a football ground?
————————————-
Hi Sol:
I might have told this story on here before, so I’ll keep it brief. Around 20 years ago, I went to Rome for 2 weeks with 4 ex- teammates. We rented a flat near the Tiber, spent the days seeing all the sights ( the place is in ruins, btw ), then spent the nights bevying, and reminded each other how good a team we were. And the more we drank, the better we got!

Anyway, we got tickets for a Roma-Lazio night game. Well on, we discarded any cans or bottles we had. We were thoroughly, and professionally frisked. We assumed they were looking for alcohol, and fireworks. Imagine our astonishment at entering the Olympic stadium and seeing wall to wall pyrotechnics behind both goals. There were fire engines on the Olympic track instantly extinguishing anything that landed on the delicate surface. How did the fans get the pyrotechnics in?

We witnessed from a few feet a fan placing a cylinder larger than a whisky bottle container on a concrete aisle step, and carefully lighting it before exiting smartly. Following the example of everybody else, the 5 of us retreated from it. Just as well, as it went off with flame shooting 30-40 feet in the air. It was like a bomb, and I was virtually deaf the entire first half.

20 years later, I haven’t figured out how fans get these devices in.

INIQUITOUS IV
January 31, 2025 9:24 pm

Auldbhoy67

 January 31, 2025 9:14 pm
Ref the flare thrower. It looks like its the guy with the black baseball cap to me. 
————————-
Disagree mate. The guy with the hoodie is in the act of throwing. The lad in the baseball cap looks far too relaxed (imho).
A view from another angle should settle it.
HH
Iniquitous IV😊

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 9:27 pm

So should we start to jail people who use mobile phones when driving?

That’s the conclusion, that because something might happen you go to jail.

Jail speeders as well and every other little thing that might harm. No one was harmed, no one was hurt.

Should drunk drivers go automatically to jail? And not just the ban.

I’m sure there might be some on here that have failed a breath test. But won’t admit it with the stigma it brings.

Ban him from celtic Park, by all means. But jail time? Really?

I’m sure his conscience is eating him up as I type this.

Mike in Toronto
January 31, 2025 9:34 pm

Inq

THe ones I wondered about were the famous pigs head that was thrown at Luis Figo by Barca fans after his transfer to Real.

and more famously, I think it was Inter fans who took a Vespa up to the top level of the stadium, and then threw it down on the opposing fans who were seated in the lower level

INIQUITOUS IV
January 31, 2025 9:36 pm

Ridiculous penalty given to Cantwell’s team. Center half jumps and accidentally heads under the chin of a Blackburn player behind him who jumped higher.
I guess there is no VAR?

Dixon of Dockgreen Csc
January 31, 2025 9:58 pm

The police have pyro dugs maybe offer to buy them a few more lot cheaper than having a stand shut down.DD is a major shareholder in one of the world’s leading facial recognition companies surely he could sort something out. I am available for consultancy work.

INIQUITOUS IV
January 31, 2025 9:58 pm

Confirmation that the English Championship does not have VAR.
Preston unjustly penalized. One of the worst decisions I’ve ever seen.

Sol Kitts
January 31, 2025 10:09 pm

I’m always amazed at clubs being punished for fans pyro, when almost all big games start with clubs setting off fireworks as the teams enter the pitch.
Do as I say, not as I do UEFA.

McCaff
January 31, 2025 10:10 pm

Re the Flare Thrower (or Hauder Upper) you’re all looking at it the wrong way…these wee eejits are smarter than you’re giving them credit for! The guy holding the glare cannot be seen, he’s probably come down 20 rows and lit the flares, he cannot be seen on ctv and therefore cannot be identified. The guy in the cap, the guy in the hoody, neither of them are involved. The wee burd with the phone is just typical of today’s modern technology users – fully prepared and embracing an opportune photie opportunity!
Any old, or young, English language teachers on here? Can I use opportune and opportunity in that way?
#There’sNoSuchThingAsADaftQuestionCSC

Sol Kitts
January 31, 2025 10:11 pm

Wales hammered 43-0 by France at the egg chasing. Think they need to sack their goalkeeper 😄

Dixon of Dockgreen Csc
January 31, 2025 10:14 pm

Gleaning good info from McCaff on how these Pyro criminals operate

Óglach
January 31, 2025 10:44 pm

Flare thrower was a Chelsea fan.😉

You heard it here 1st CSC

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 10:50 pm

The things the police do to dugs is not right. How do you get a dug addicted to fireworks. My dugs shit scared of fireworks and I wouldn’t want to put him through the trauma.

Gordon64
January 31, 2025 10:50 pm

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 10:55 pm

Ban Chelsea fans from the bayern game😂😂😂

Dixon of Dockgreen Csc
January 31, 2025 11:03 pm

It’s the scent of the fireworks we train our dugs to detect. We love our dugs even like to feed them the odd hun now and again

Gordon64
January 31, 2025 11:04 pm

Pitymevin
January 31, 2025 11:06 pm

Aye Dixon, thats what you say.

But everyone knows that hun smell of shite, so I can’t imagine what they would taste like😁

Celger
January 31, 2025 11:33 pm

MIT……..Scottish Catholic culture that doesn’t question authority and school buses? You must have been brought up in Toronto. Nonsense.
You have no real idea of being brought up in Glasgow from Irish background…..we f……ing fought them, not cringing.

Johnno
February 1, 2025 12:01 am

Baddy and Pity

Sorry lads to leave the party early, but more important things to tend to.

See your looking for an apology, well if that’s a reference to myself, then only fair to inform you that you will be waiting for a long time.

The carry on out of the pair of ya, would make you think that the offenders of pyros, should be given the red carpet treatment up the Celtic way.

Are you really that nieve to think that the law doesn’t trump up charges to suit an agenda?
Been on the end of such circumstances, it does happen.
But when you’re guilty of the crime, not to much you can really do about it, so no point going looking for the sympathy vote.

Yet back in the day when the football trouble was rife, the authorities hit back with heavier sentences, and that pastime lost its appeal somewhat.
So seeing these jokers of today, are nothing more than an embarrassing bunch of wannabes with there actions of disruption and disrespect towards others.

But even in the naughty world, there use to be a code of conduct, not so much today.
Even applied within the football trouble world, when certain groups were off limits, again doesn’t seem to be applied to much today either.

Even with been old school, the old school methods were far better in sorting out such issues imo.
So to be clear, if I had carried out such harmless acts as your trying to portray, then receiving a few slaps, in return would be justified.
Same way, I wouldn’t have to many problems in handing out the likes either, even with the knowledge of the law coming down harder upon myself for doing so.

So not even in a position to condemn such idiots for there actions, especially with carrying out far worse, and having to pay the price in doing so also.

Bit to old now for carrying on in such nonsense nowadays.
But still within myself of the naughty world operations.
So even if I was caught red handed of the offence in question, I still would have pleaded not guilty.

How’s that, you may be thinking?

Well I would have said that there was meant to be a counter terrorism operation for the game judge.
Have to say judge, that the midlands police aren’t very good at there job as I wanted to highlight.

Now it wouldn’t have done myself much good with the track record, and possibly another kicking from the police in return.
But not in me too make to easy for them, and do the punishment with a bit of satisfaction for the crime.

Yet the guilt of my actions wouldn’t sit well with the trouble I have bought upon fellow supporters with such actions.
Again it still doesn’t seem to apply these days, but value the old school morals far more, even if both are wrong imo

Gordon64
February 1, 2025 12:06 am